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HELP NEEDED1100RT Wants to fall over, front wheel lifts off ground HELP!!!h


twowheelsonly

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twowheelsonly

Hi

 

I was leaving on my 7000 mile trip to Western Canada this morning, I decided to park about 75 miles down the road in a parking lot with slight falling surface,got off & over she fell on her left side.. Well kind fellow gave me a hand to get her up, checked the kickstand found that the bike want to pivot on the stand and the front tire wants to lift off the pavement.. I just lowered the bike 1" with Ohlins and had the kickstand cut 5/8" and a large 3/8 washer under the foot..so the kickstand is about 1/4" shorter than stock...

 

I also noticed that the bike feels like it is suspended in air when parked on the stand.. doesn't seem to matter what the levelness of the road is.. I think this was the same as before the changes to the new shocks & modified kickstand.. The bike seems to be almost floating when you pull even slightly on the bars with a couple of fingers.. with the bike unloaded on level road I can actually pull on the middle and see the front tire lift off the road...

 

Well I guess I got to take the Yammy Venture at least it feels like dead weight on the stand.. just hard to get it up and centered due to the added mass..

 

I did notice that the Factory and modified kickstand have a lot of space where the u channel of the stand has about 3/8" gap where the bolt secures the stand to the frame.. both kickstands were about the same gap so it isn't bent.. they look the same except for the modified foot

 

Thoughts and help always appreciated.. I will check this hourly while I load the Venture maybe someone has had the same problem and a simple solution.. I really was looking forward to the BMR, I guess its Bummer right now!!

 

Stewart

twowheelsonly

 

Note:

I had about 100 pounds of weight on the back seat, saddle bags and trunk... well balanced and weight to the bottom of the seat and saddlebags, everything else is lightweight.. anyway I remember when I changed the shocks I got a kickstand and had it modified, it fits flush to the pavement..

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Sounds like too much weight, too high up at the rear.

 

Did you lower the front the same as the rear ?

 

Or is the bike still std @ the front ? as this would alter the weight distribution front to rear on the side stand making the front light.

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My guess is that you did not cut the sidestand enough. To keep the same lean angle you would have to cut the overall length of the sidestand slightly more than 1 inch including your 3/8 washer in order to keep the lean angle the same. 1/4" sounds way too little for a one inch drop.

 

Note: I've never done this myself. I'm just thinking through the math, not the real world application, so others who have actually done this please feel free to correct my thinking.

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Paul Mihalka

When you stop, first thing leave the bike in first gear. With that, when you put out the side stand you should notice the bike leaning over enough to put weight on the side stand. If not, find a parking spot that is not flat but drops toward the left. That should get you the right angle. With the bike lowered and fully loaded, if the center stand is not shortened it becomes impossible to use.

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twowheelsonly

Well I dropped the front and rear 1" so the pitch is the same front to back.. I will call the shock company tomorrow and see what they have to say, seems to me that the back shock seems soft which maybe allowing too much weight to shift to the rear end..

 

I measured the stock kickstand to the modified and it is 3/8" shorter. I was thinking if I cut it even shorter than it is then the front tire would be more prone to lift away from the road.. I'm no engineer but I have always found this bike hard to keep parked on its kickstand.. seems like there is too much play in the kick stand which is part of the issue.. I will report back what I find..

 

Thanks!

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Paul Mihalka

I don't get it, the thing with the front wheel lifting or up in the air. So let's not call it kickstand. Let's call it sidestand and center stand. The bike to stand by itself needs three points to the ground. When on the sidestand, it is the stand and both the front and rear wheel, when on the center stand it is the two legs of the stand and the front OR rear wheel. Either way is OK but with a loaded bike it will have the rear wheel on the ground and the front wheel in the air, which is OK. Can you describe more of the problem?

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Hi Stewart

 

Just a thought, does the new rear shock use a hydraulic adjuster liked the original ?

 

I think youve pin pointed the problem if the rear is too soft alowing the tail to sit too low when on the side stand causing the weight to shift rearwards unloading weight from the front wheel.

 

If you dont have an adjuster setup on the new shock can you reuse the old one ?

 

On the second point of the sidestand length ...... I would be very tempted to leave the sidestand longer ( as you've done ) to bring the bike nearer to vertical ( mine lays over way too far for my liking ).

 

By the way yours sounds like its got a lot of play at the pivot.

Just checked mine and it lies about 10deg forward of 90deg when deployed with no discernable movement at all otherwise.

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twowheelsonly

The rear shock had a adjuster like the original, I had it turned all the way on firm. I have noticed that the shock travel on the rear seems a lot softer than stock and I can bounce the rear end up and down with minimum effort when I am sitting on the bike, it's like it has about 4 " of travel from top to bottom, Also after the shock change I noticed the kickstand gets caught slightly on the pavement when retracted even on level pavement but it only takes a slight angle to the right to clear the road,

 

I don't remember the stock rear shock having this kind up and down motion when I sat on it. If I look at the bike on level ground it appears to be leaning enough not to fall over, especially on the right side which is what it has done a couple of times.. The thing that I still don't understand is why the bike feels like it is floating on the kickstand.. this was the same condition when it was stock. I was wondering if it is missing a spacer for the U channel where the bolt mounts the kick stand to the frame causing excessive play in the stand..

 

One thing I do know is I just took the same gear from the RT to my Venture & loaded everything on it and the Venture is rock solid on the kickstand and you can rock it and it does not want to move from the lean angle on the stand..

 

Appreciate the info and insight.. everyone here is GREAT!

 

Stewart

Two wheelsonly

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Hmmm, Bike falls on it's left side, front wheel tends to lift up with a load on the seat while on the side stand. Problem is with the side stand. Either it's too short or it's damaged in some way that allows the bike to lean too far. I've seen the front wheel lift on my RS when it's loaded and the ground under the side stand is low.

I carry a 3x3 inch square of 3/4 plywood on a string for just such a parking situation.

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Is there any play at the side stand pivot point ?

 

there should be a bush through the monting point to the frame, and if the bush isnt a good fit then the side stand will move quite a lot by comparison.

 

It also sounds like the rear spring is way too soft

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twowheelsonly

Actual bike leans to the left on the kickstand, if you move the handlebars you can feel the front tire lift up.. the bike fell to the right side, I always mount on the right side and I can pull the bars slightly (2 fingers)and the bike will come up and starts to lean to the right & the overall motion is about 6" towards the right side when pulling on the handlebars..

 

 

 

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twowheelsonly

I did not notice any bushing where the bolt goes through the U channel and mounts to the frame.. do you know how thick it is?

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Stewart,

Please don't take this the wrong way, and maybe I'm missing something.

You're going on a 7,000 mile trip and haven't checked your load and pack distribution until leaving?

 

You also just lowered the bike 1" via suspension.

New shocks, built for you and that bike, or from something else?

 

Every time we lowered a beemer it required changes to sidestand and center stand.

In some cases center stand removed.

In every case we used shocks built for that bike and rider.

 

I hope you find a quick and easy solution.

If not, probably good to take a bike you've vetted and doesn't have the questions the beemer seems to have right now.

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twowheelsonly

Actually I took the ride for 400 miles a couple of weeks ago with about 75% of the load, I did notice it seemed floaty when it was parked but I never really stopped except to get some gas once.

 

The Ohlins were sent to CDMoto a couple of month ago to have them serviced and the bike rides and handles great solo, I can still raise the bike on the center stand if it is unloaded.. I have been riding for over 40 years never had a bike that fell over due to me loading it, so nothing out of the ordinary, I even weighed each saddle bag and they were almost identical, the top box had bulk not weight and the main bag was on the rear seat and no higher than the top box height.. total gear was about 90 pounds not including the cases

 

Since I have had this bike I have never felt it was sitting firmly on the ground when on the side stand, I think it has to do with the mount, someone commented that there is a bushing or to fill some of the space for the u channel if there is supposed to be one I don't have it installed and it was not there when I installed the modified kick stand..

 

I really think that BMW should copy the kickstand on a HD or even my Yamaha, the stand reaches out about 12" past the side of the bike, the BMW sits almost under the frame, it is much more vertical than horizontal as used in a HD or Yammy. I took all the gear off the BMR and it is now on the Venture, I can hardly budge the bike by shaking it hard no matter how hard I tried. Huge difference.. I will see what it is when I get back in 4 weeks.. I still got my big ride ahead and I can't trust the BMR right now and I don't want to pickup a 800 pound bike again..

 

Thanks

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I don't remember the stock rear shock having this kind up and down motion when I sat on it. If I look at the bike on level ground it appears to be leaning enough not to fall over, especially on the right side which is what it has done a couple of times.. The thing that I still don't understand is why the bike feels like it is floating on the kickstand.. this was the same condition when it was stock. I was wondering if it is missing a spacer for the U channel where the bolt mounts the kick stand to the frame causing excessive play in the stand..

 

Did you check the sag when you installed your shocks? Sounds like your replacement lowered shock springs may be too soft for you and the load, if its that easy to bounce it. I had lowered shocks made and I was lucky enough that the factory was only 3 miles away we tried a combination of 3 different springs before getting the correct sag measurements for me.

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twowheelsonly

Hi,

 

No I can't say I did that but I dd specify my weight with riding gear and an additional 100 lbs for gear which is correct.. I will contact the rebuilder and see what he has as a possible solution. Curious how much did you lower your 1150 and did you modify the kickstand? Did you notice any bushing in the U channel?

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Hi,

 

No I can't say I did that but I dd specify my weight with riding gear and an additional 100 lbs for gear which is correct.. I will contact the rebuilder and see what he has as a possible solution. Curious how much did you lower your 1150 and did you modify the kickstand? Did you notice any bushing in the U channel?

 

From what I've found, the spring rates on aftermarket shocks are often too soft, even when they are given the specs. I've almost always had to crank my preload well past halfway to get the proper setting.

 

Also, I'm still betting your sidestand is too long.

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Hi,

 

No I can't say I did that but I dd specify my weight with riding gear and an additional 100 lbs for gear which is correct.. I will contact the rebuilder and see what he has as a possible solution. Curious how much did you lower your 1150 and did you modify the kickstand? Did you notice any bushing in the U channel?

 

I lowered it 2" front and back and never needed to modify the sidestand it just took a little bit of the bike lean off on it, but in order for me to put it on the center stand I carry a 4" 2x4 that I have to roll the rear tire on to raise it so I can lift it. Maybe one day I'll cut it down, lol. When I first got the shocks it would bottom out bouncing on it and the sag was so way out of specs that even after I cranked the preload collar to a point that I could'nt turn it anymore I still could not get it close to spec. The spring we finally used was a eibach 1020# spring the one they originally put on was a 820#. hope this helps

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I recently had a similar concern regarding the play on my R1100RT side stand. It would move up and down about ¾ inch, which to my untrained eye seemed excessive. Last week I took the bike to my local dealer for some routine maintenance and while it was there, I had them look at the stand. According to the BMW certified technician that worked on my bike, this amount of play is within normal limits and nothing to worry about.

 

Here’s a link to a short 13-second video showing the movement on my side stand. This will give you an idea of what BMW considers normal for this bike. http://tinyurl.com/32yy7h9.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Joel

 

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If the front wheel picks up off the ground when the bike is on the side stand, then the side stand is too short.

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twowheelsonly

Thanks everyone for the input, looks like I am missing the bushing.. could be it dropped out and I did not notice it.. when I get back from my trip I will check with my local dealer and order the bushing, hopefully changing the bushing and checking on the spring rate will fix the issue..

 

Stewart

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