Question about high school computer science

[Bob Palin]

Firstly - I don't have kids and didn't go to high school or college in the US so I don't know a lot about the system.

 

Last night I went to the local high school to help with an adult ed computer class, the school counselor invited the school's computer whizz kid along to make sure we knew how to operate all the equipment. He's a senior next year and wants to study computer science at college, however he's finished all the classes that are available at this very rural school. I was surprised to find that he doesn't know any programming (other than simple HTML web pages) - surely to get into college he would have to know some programming? Over the years I've interviewed and hired many college graduates but know nothing about entry to college - could somebody fill me in?

I might be willing to help the kid if he needs/wants it, he was bright, friendly and interested. (I do plan on speaking to the counselor but in the county it's sometimes difficult to get the bigger picture)

[Woodie]

My experience is some 20+ years old. But even then, programming was an option in high school, and was an introductory course for EE in college.

 

Gbasic, Pascal, PL/C at that time.

 

I would be suspect of a student who hasn't at least looked at some simple programming/concepts in day/age. (Java, C++, even scripting with VBS or JavaScript or perl)

 

[Bob Palin]

I would be suspect of a student who hasn't at least looked at some simple programming/concepts in day/age. (Java, C++, even scripting with VBS or JavaScript or perl)

I did wonder about that but just to give a little more perspective, he is the only student who has done a lot of the non-mandatory computer classes, he has no peers and no mentors. Makes it hard to break out of the mould I would think.

[Aluminum_Butt]

I suppose it depends on the college he's trying to get into, but I doubt programming is a requirement. That said, he will likely be behind his peers. He should be focusing on math and science above all - a computer science degree is likely to require at least a couple of semesters of calculus.

 

Some options:

 

* Is there a community college nearby where he could get some programming classes? Many will let a high school senior into lower-level classes.

 

* Have him look into the Alice Project (www.alice.org). It's a graphical environment designed to teach basic programming concepts. Because the result is actually a video, or even a game, it's easy to to keep the attention of a teen. In my experience, the hardest thing about learning programming is having a project you want to do, that's at a level you can handle.

 

As a group, we might be able to give better guidance if we knew what area he wants to specialize in - is it web development, other types of programming, networking, etc? (if he knows)

 

 

[russell_bynum]

FWIW, I had BASIC programming in my High School computer science class. When I went to college, I actually started out as a music major, but when I changed to Computer Science, I was enrolled in an Ada programming class which was totally entry-level and assumed no prior programming experience.

[philbytx]

Most of the geeks that worked for me were proficient in (and also WANTED to learn) the latest programming languages.

 

All of the programmers (and some of the help desk guys) were up on C++, VBS, Java etc.. and most of them 'got off' on writing it . Loved those guys ! Website design was viewed as "low tech" stuff for most of the programmers...they used to laugh that it was something they could do in a bathroom break. Great snobbery amongst the nerdy folk...lol !

 

 

[RonStewart]

My old high school no longer has programming. Geeks LOVE programming, but geeks don't push hard. And that school has no teachers who can program.

 

Around here, the schools with good computing courses have a champion teacher pushing them. The BC Computer Programming 11 & 12 courses actually look pretty good, but I can't get my tiny school to open up the budget to make it go.

[MikeRC]

Bob:

 

My perspective is limited to having a 23yo recent computer science grad. His high school computer science courses were largely practical and application based (Excel, Access, Frontpage). They did a bit of Visual Basic and Java programming, but it was pretty simple stuff.

 

His university CS was either application based or more theoretical (computer vision, artificial intelligence) so I think that programming is taught more at the technical schools. One of the problems (I think) for university CS is "what language" do you teach them and leave them able to adapt? Some Departments decided that Perl will be the standard, some C++/#. He was saying that UBC is thinking of standardizing to Haskell (from C++). They all learn Java, some C++/# and basic html coding. Even his SQL course (the one he uses most at work) was not a core subject. That plus being pretty adept at Visual Basic macros in Excel spreadsheets puts him far above anyone in the office other then the real programmers. But the programmers can't get a database or spreadsheet to turn out a report or (in his case) take the data and do any projections from it.

 

I think the problem at the high school level is that this stuff is getting pretty specific, and there are not many teachers who will have time to learn anything but basic Java, html and/or Basic.

 

Mike Cassidy

[russell_bynum]

Bob:

 

My perspective is limited to having a 23yo recent computer science grad. His high school computer science courses were largely practical and application based (Excel, Access, Frontpage). They did a bit of Visual Basic and Java programming, but it was pretty simple stuff.

 

His university CS was either application based or more theoretical (computer vision, artificial intelligence) so I think that programming is taught more at the technical schools. One of the problems (I think) for university CS is "what language" do you teach them and leave them able to adapt? Some Departments decided that Perl will be the standard, some C++/#. He was saying that UBC is thinking of standardizing to Haskell (from C++). They all learn Java, some C++/# and basic html coding. Even his SQL course (the one he uses most at work) was not a core subject. That plus being pretty adept at Visual Basic macros in Excel spreadsheets puts him far above anyone in the office other then the real programmers. But the programmers can't get a database or spreadsheet to turn out a report or (in his case) take the data and do any projections from it.

 

I think the problem at the high school level is that this stuff is getting pretty specific, and there are not many teachers who will have time to learn anything but basic Java, html and/or Basic.

 

Mike Cassidy

 

In my experience, the specific language you learn isn't really all that important. Tech changes fast enough and there's enough variation across the industry that you can't really say "if you know such and such language, you'll have a job when you graduate". IMO, it is more important to learn how to translate business requirements into a program that does something useful and efficient. A good programmer will learn whatever language they need...I know a guy who's been a Mainframe programmer (mostly COBOL) since way back when Pontias Pilot was in flight school. We needed a .NET programmer and he wasn't busy, so we sent him to a .NET class and now he's a kick-ass .NET programmer. The real skill is not knowing this language or that, it's knowing how to make a computer do something useful.