Oil and Water don't mix

[motoguy128]

Just curious, but why can't and extremely large concrete box be placed over the entire leak? Like a huge containment dome wit henouhg mass and a narow enough base, to seal itself against the sea floor.

 

How about cutting a big hole in a supertanker and dropping it right on top of the well. Let it fill up the tankers hold and pump out hte oil from inside the tanker.

 

It seems like most of these solutions are about precision. Why not use a sledge hammer???

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

Just curious, but why can't and extremely large concrete box be placed over the entire leak? Like a huge containment dome wit henouhg mass and a narow enough base, to seal itself against the sea floor.

 

The static pressure from the formation, IIRC, could be as high as 30,000 PSI.

 

I'm guessing the inner diameter of that pipe is about 12 inches, for a cross-sectional area of 113 square inches.

 

Just to hold a plug inside the pipe against that pressure will require a force of 3.4 million pounds. That's a cube of concrete 26 feet on a side, balanced on the end of that pipe.

 

If you try to seal against the sea floor to provide a bigger base, there are two factors working against you:

 

1. the larger area contained by the sealing surface means that much more force is required to hold the containment dome down. Want a base 10 feet by 10 feet, with the seal around its outer edge? Fine, now your concrete cap needs to weigh 432 million pounds. That's about 1/30th of the Hoover Dam.

 

2. Even if your concrete cap weighs enough, the sea floor lacks structural integrity. The cap might not lift, but the pressure will eventually extrude the muck of the sea floor out from under the dome, creating leak paths.

 

How about cutting a big hole in a supertanker and dropping it right on top of the well. Let it fill up the tankers hold and pump out hte oil from inside the tanker.

 

That is, more or less, what the first containment dome was. And there were big problems with formation of methane slush, necessitating a more complex approach. IIRC the current, smaller cap uses hot water piped down from the surface to prevent slush formation.

[philbytx]

Darn Mitch!

You engineers take all the fun out of stuff :grin:

[Gary in Aus]

{{{{{{Originally Posted By: Gary in Aus

While driving back from Sydney today and listening to the radio , I heard a interview with Bill Clinton regarding his ideas on the Gulf oil spill.

 

His suggestion to hand over responsibility to the US government which would allow/enable them to possibly use a nuclear exploding device to seal the leaking well.

 

If this is the best than can be offered ,well I guess you are screwed !!

 

 

... *perhaps* some of the rest of the interview (maybe there were multiple interviews):

 

"You don't have to use a nuclear weapon, by the way," }}}}}}]

 

 

 

 

I can't give exact source of interview but it was introduced as a package interview from an american source with intro and conclusion as part of broadcast. This was aired on the ABC National channel.

 

The only way this report could have been more disturbing would be if there were duelling banjoes as the background music.

 

I would suggest this goes back to media ownership and influence as this report did not portray the former US president or the current administration in a positive way, highlighting that after more than two months of leaking ,things were only becoming worse not better.

 

The Canadian "expert" put forward a very credible argument about the dangers of using an explosion and not guaranteing it would work and the potential to be in a situation without any solutions.

[philbytx]

 

 

GOOD NEWS...finally, it arrives!

[motoguy128]

Any reason we don't have 2 3 or 4 of those ships and why it took about 2 months to arrive.

 

Then again, if BP had one of thsoe, how hard would they be working ot plug the leak.

 

Then again, oil skimmed off hte surface can probably be replamed and sent to a refinery as a slightly lower grade crude I would imagine.

 

 

So lets fire that puppy up, and have tankers, relief crews, miantenance crews and spare parts on standby so it can keep operating 24/7. IF we had this ship a month ago the beaches might still have toruists on them. Instead they are full of clean-up crews.

[philbytx]

The reason it took so long is that the administration let it take that long. Evidently, it appears the vessel doesn't clean 100 percent of the water, just 99 percent. Which wasn't good enough for the EPA! Plus special dispensation needed because of some ancient act about foreign vessels in U.S. waters.

 

IMHO, someone should have kicked some arses and just got 'er done !

 

[chrisolson]

I'm a bit more skeptical about a ship that was converted to its current mission in 10 days in early June by the owners apparently without any outside consultation or notice, where the actual process for separating oil and water is largely unknown and has only been tested by the owners using fire foam not oil.

 

Even a spokesman for the TMT Offshore Group, has said “Until we test the vessel in the oil spill environment, it is impossible to predict precisely how well it will perform."

 

However, if it works it should be used appropriately.

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

Even a spokesman for the TMT Offshore Group, has said "Until we test the vessel in the oil spill environment, it is impossible to predict precisely how well it will perform."

 

And this is why there aren't two or three or four of these out there: no one knows whether it will work worth a damn, and until that's determined, no private ship owner is going to want to take a tanker out of service for an unpaid experiment. (except maybe for this one eccentric fellow who owns A Whale).

 

One of the obstacles I've heard is that this oil slick is relatively thin, widespread and patchy, which is less than desirable for a single massive vacuum cleaner like this. Contraast the current spill with (for example) the Exxon Valdez spill, which was very localized and present in a very thick layer; this super-sucker might have done well there.

 

We'll see how the testing goes...

[Ken H.]

One of the obstacles I've heard is that this oil slick is relatively thin, widespread and patchy, which is less than desirable for a single massive vacuum cleaner like this.

And not all on the surface. Due to the use of dispersants (read – hid the evidence), much lies in plumes below the surface, where, as I understand it, skimmers are useless.

[ESokoloff]

Well if this were a broken/discharging fire sprinkler you would cap it off.

First you would remove the sprinkler head & then you would screw in a short section (nipple) of pipe with an opened ball valve on the (opposite) end to insure no build up of pressure.

After this pipe was secured you would then merely close the valve.

 

Seams to me that the BOP is substantial enough to allow a similar device to be attached/secured to it.

 

Sounds like this latest fix was similar to the discharging fire sprinkler fix.

Makes all previous attempts amateur in comparison.

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

Well if this were a broken/discharging fire sprinkler you would cap it off.

First you would remove the sprinkler head & then you would screw in a short section (nipple) of pipe with an opened ball valve on the (opposite) end to insure no build up of pressure.

After this pipe was secured you would then merely close the valve.

 

Seams to me that the BOP is substantial enough to allow a similar device to be attached/secured to it.

 

Sounds like this latest fix was similar to the discharging fire sprinkler fix.

Makes all previous attempts amateur in comparison.

 

ISTR that this was the standard repair for land-based oil wells that blow out and/or ignite:

 

-put out the fire (if any)

-saw off the old/defective valve

-attach new valve (valve in open position allowing free flow)

-close new valve

 

Possibly there was something different about this well that made this fix more difficult/slow to implement, and that's why they were trying this other stuff (top kill, junk shot, etc.) in the meantime?

[ESokoloff]

This just in for those with plenty of time to look.