School Zone Confusion

[CarrotNC]

Just curious if anyone else is seeing a switch to these types of school zone signs. They confuse me since my normal route doesn't include them, and some weeks I don't care what day it is unless I reach one of these signs.

 

There's another one around here that has times listed without the days of the week, but says "School Days". Since I don't have kids how am I supposed to know what days (in our year round school system) are school days; and what if they have a "make up day" on a Saturday? Had one of those this year a couple weeks after a snow storm. I've not received a ticket yet but these zones scare me!

[David]

You can't be going over 10 mph just to read the sign!

[pokorskij]

Are you questioning the government? How dare you?

[Paul Mihalka]

Generally all kind of road signs have too much text to read instead of just the symbols everybody should know.

[pbbeck]

Recently, the so-called news here in LA did a story on school zone signs. Specifcally, they were highlighting the total recklessness of most drivers as they bomb through school zones. They interviewed a CHP officer about those "conditional speed limit" signs that say "when children are present." His answer was this... children are always present, whether in school or after school or on a Saturday, so adhere to the school zone speed limits all the time. Otherwise, expect a ticket.

 

I know here in Long Beach the revenuers always have a few RTPs lurking in the two school zones that I pass through every day.

[bakerzdosen]

This makes me appreciate the flashing yellow light signs that are still in use (and turned on/off by crossing guards) around here. This makes me a LOT more forgiving for that one-a-year occasion when they forget to turn them off.

[Paul Mihalka]

Recently, the so-called news here in LA did a story on school zone signs. Specifcally, they were highlighting the total recklessness of most drivers as they bomb through school zones. They interviewed a CHP officer about those "conditional speed limit" signs that say "when children are present." His answer was this... children are always present, whether in school or after school or on a Saturday, so adhere to the school zone speed limits all the time. Otherwise, expect a ticket.

 

If that is the case why don't just take away the "when children are present" text?

[russell_bynum]

Recently, the so-called news here in LA did a story on school zone signs. Specifcally, they were highlighting the total recklessness of most drivers as they bomb through school zones. They interviewed a CHP officer about those "conditional speed limit" signs that say "when children are present." His answer was this... children are always present, whether in school or after school or on a Saturday, so adhere to the school zone speed limits all the time. Otherwise, expect a ticket.

 

I know here in Long Beach the revenuers always have a few RTPs lurking in the two school zones that I pass through every day.

 

That is not what the law says.

 

I'm not saying that LEO's don't ticket people anyway, but here's the relevant section of VC22352:

(B) When approaching or passing a school building or the grounds thereof, contiguous to a highway and posted with a standard "SCHOOL" warning sign, while children are going to or leaving the school either during school hours or during the noon recess period. The prima facie limit shall also apply when approaching or passing any school grounds which are not separated from the highway by a fence, gate, or other physical barrier while the grounds are in use by children and the highway is posted with a standard "SCHOOL" warning sign. For purposes of this subparagraph, standard "SCHOOL" warning signs may be placed at any distance up to 500 feet away from school grounds.

 

 

Wonder of wonders...the law is overly complicated and mostly useless since by the time you verified all of the conditions to determine if you have to slow down or not, it would be too late.

[upflying]

Thanks Russell, I play by the rules. I always put my LIDAR away once the tardy bell rings.

[russell_bynum]

Thanks Russell, I play by the rules. I always put my LIDAR away once the tardy bell rings.

 

Sorry Bob...I should have said "I'm not saying that SOME LEO's don't ticket you anyway." I wasn't trying to imply that all LEO's would.

 

My bad.

[Kathy R]

I understand the OP, but I look at those signs differently. They are all telling me that kids might be around.

 

Most of the school zones and playgrounds I've ridden past are rather short in distance. A few minutes of extra caution on my part isn't too much to ask.

 

[Quinn]

I understand the OP, but I look at those signs differently. They are all telling me that kids might be around.

 

Most of the school zones and playgrounds I've ridden past are rather short in distance. A few minutes of extra caution on my part isn't too much to ask.

 

I agree with Kathy. I want all those Slow Childred Playing to grow up and become Slow Men Working.

 

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[russell_bynum]

I understand the OP, but I look at those signs differently. They are all telling me that kids might be around.

 

Most of the school zones and playgrounds I've ridden past are rather short in distance. A few minutes of extra caution on my part isn't too much to ask.

 

I agree with Kathy. I want all those Slow Childred Playing to grow up and become Slow Men Working.

 

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For sure. I have no problem slowing down when I'm supposed to slow down.

 

But when the law is vague/signs don't make any sense...

 

 

As for just slowing down in a school zone regardless....some of the school zones around here are on 55-60mph roads. If you randomly slow down to 25mph, you are a serious traffic hazard.

[CoarsegoldKid]

As for the California law. Most if not all schools these days have fences around them. Children are almost always visible somewhere on the grounds behind the fence. I asked a Fresno motor officer about this law a couple of years back. He said that if the children are behind the fence they are separated from the road so the posted speed does not have to be reduced to the "children present" speed. If a child is on the highway side of the fence you can expect a ticket if you don't slow to 25mph. I guess each jurisdiction sees things differently. A crap shoot.

[Kathy R]

I understand the OP, but I look at those signs differently. They are all telling me that kids might be around.

 

Most of the school zones and playgrounds I've ridden past are rather short in distance. A few minutes of extra caution on my part isn't too much to ask.

 

I agree with Kathy. I want all those Slow Childred Playing to grow up and become Slow Men Working.

 

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For sure. I have no problem slowing down when I'm supposed to slow down.

 

But when the law is vague/signs don't make any sense...

 

 

As for just slowing down in a school zone regardless....some of the school zones around here are on 55-60mph roads. If you randomly slow down to 25mph, you are a serious traffic hazard.

 

 

Situational awareness for me doesn't involve causing a traffic hazard for you

[tallman]

I must admit I'm biased, working in a school but I don't see school zones as a major impingment on anyone driving down the road.

It is a short distance, clearly marked (even if signs are hard to read) with

so just slow down and then move on.

The consequences for any traffic incident in a school zone can be catastrophic for all, and last a lifetime

[upflying]

During a visit to Yuma AZ about 15 years ago, I was surprised to see school zones posted at 15mph. Is that still the case?

[russell_bynum]

Situational awareness for me doesn't involve causing a traffic hazard for you

 

If you're going 25mph when everyone else is going 60mph (the legal speed limit), you are a traffic hazard.

 

 

[Ken H.]

If you're going 25mph when everyone else is going 60mph (the legal speed limit), you are a traffic hazard.

While within the 25 MPH School Zone 60 MPH is decidedly not the legal speed limit.

 

As for just slowing down in a school zone regardless....some of the school zones around here are on 55-60mph roads. If you randomly slow down to 25mph, you are a serious traffic hazard.

If the 25 MPH School Zone is in a 55-60 MPH area and I obey the law and slow down to 25 while within the zone and other’s don’t - I’M the traffic hazard!???!

 

Shish! That’s taking blame shifting to a whole new level.

 

[Firefight911]

If you're going 25mph when everyone else is going 60mph (the legal speed limit), you are a traffic hazard.

While within the 25 MPH School Zone 60 MPH is decidedly not the legal speed limit.

 

As for just slowing down in a school zone regardless....some of the school zones around here are on 55-60mph roads. If you randomly slow down to 25mph, you are a serious traffic hazard.

If the 25 MPH School Zone is in a 55-60 MPH area and I obey the law and slow down to 25 while within the zone and other’s don’t - I’M the traffic hazard!???!

 

Shish! That’s taking blame shifting to a whole new level.

 

That's not what he's saying! If it's 3 PM on a Saturday, no one is around, the speed zone time frame is not in effect, and the world of idiots are out in force running from Costco, talking on their cells, or doing whatever and they are doing the 50 - 60 mph normal speed and you arbitrarily decide to do 25 mph because there is a school zone sign, even though it's NOT applicable at that time, YOU are the hazard!

[Ken H.]

That's not what he's saying! If it's 3 PM on a Saturday, no one is around, the speed zone time frame is not in effect, and the world of idiots are out in force running from Costco, talking on their cells, or doing whatever and they are doing the 50 - 60 mph normal speed and you arbitrarily decide to do 25 mph because there is a school zone sign, even though it's NOT applicable at that time, YOU are the hazard!

Russell had no such situational qualifiers in his orginal statement. He said if you slow down for a School Zone (a 25 intermixed with 55-60) you're a traffic hazard.

[Firefight911]

Go jump off a cliff.

 

Because I didn't give any situational qualifiers around the above statement does that mean you are going to do it?

 

Common sense do need to be applied periodically, no?

[Kathy R]

Situational awareness for me doesn't involve causing a traffic hazard for you

 

If you're going 25mph when everyone else is going 60mph (the legal speed limit), you are a traffic hazard.

 

 

Our school zone speed limits, when kids are "not present" are in the 30mph to 35mph range, tops. Our schools are in the towns with town like speed limits.

 

That being said, if I knew the driver behind me was impatient, I'd signal and pull over. I've found it's easier to just let some folks by. Much safer for everyone that way.

[Kathy R]

If you're going 25mph when everyone else is going 60mph (the legal speed limit), you are a traffic hazard.

While within the 25 MPH School Zone 60 MPH is decidedly not the legal speed limit.

 

As for just slowing down in a school zone regardless....some of the school zones around here are on 55-60mph roads. If you randomly slow down to 25mph, you are a serious traffic hazard.

If the 25 MPH School Zone is in a 55-60 MPH area and I obey the law and slow down to 25 while within the zone and other’s don’t - I’M the traffic hazard!???!

 

Shish! That’s taking blame shifting to a whole new level.

 

That's not what he's saying! If it's 3 PM on a Saturday, no one is around, the speed zone time frame is not in effect, and the world of idiots are out in force running from Costco, talking on their cells, or doing whatever and they are doing the 50 - 60 mph normal speed and you arbitrarily decide to do 25 mph because there is a school zone sign, even though it's NOT applicable at that time, YOU are the hazard!

 

 

Again, I've never seen such a disparity in speed limits around schools? I guess if that part made sense to me I'd say perhaps it's the rare situation? Does CA really do that?

 

In my experience the kids are always using the school grounds; skateboarding, basketball, field hockey...they are always present. School sports is sure popular.

 

 

[Kathy R]

Go jump off a cliff.

 

Because I didn't give any situational qualifiers around the above statement does that mean you are going to do it?

 

Common sense do need to be applied periodically, no?

 

(inserting gentley here)

Common sense would seem to dictate that if these speed variations (25 - 60) are real and common, then I'd have to slow down early and watch my mirrors carefully.

 

If people are not paying attention, they aren't going to do a better job Mon - Fri, in my experience. Some folks just like to push it.

[Firefight911]

Several 45 and 50 mph zones around schools close to me.

[Kathy R]

Several 45 and 50 mph zones around schools close to me.

 

Scary

[10ovr]

During a visit to Yuma AZ about 15 years ago, I was surprised to see school zones posted at 15mph. Is that still the case?

In AZ its 15 mph in a school zone,,In my town they roll out 3 signs ,one at the cross walk and the other 2 about 50 yards both ways from the cross walk ,They are out all day during school,,,I see the same LEO on a bike there about 3 days a week,,About half the time I go by he is writing a ticket..And it"s not cheep..

[10ovr]

Back when I was a kid they did not have school zones,,They called it thinning the herd

[Firefight911]

Back when I was a kid they did not have school zones,,They called it thinning the herd

 

Frogger works too!

[russell_bynum]

Russell had no such situational qualifiers in his orginal statement. He said if you slow down for a School Zone (a 25 intermixed with 55-60) you're a traffic hazard.

 

Yes I did. I said "60mph (the legal speed limit)." If the conditions are such that the school zone limit is in place, then the legal speed limit is not 60mph.

 

It gets particularly tricky if kids are around and it is not during school hours. For example...kids coming/going to use the playgrounds/sports facilities after hours and on weekends. Do I slow down or not?? The sign says "When children are present". The law says when they're present if they're going to/from school.

 

FWIW...I slow down. I really don't care what the sign says, if there's kids out and in an area where they could be an issue, I slow down. I also generally drive really slowly in residential areas (often slower than the posted limit since that's sometimes too high due to limited visibility with parked cars and such.)

 

Kathy: Not everywhere is the same. Near our old house, we have a school located on a 60mph 6 lane road. The school is set back from the road quite a ways and has fences, but you've still got kids crossing the street to get to/from school...hence the school zone speed limit. On our commute, we pass three schools which are on 45-50mph roads. Again...the schools are set back and have fences and such, but we've still got kids getting to/from the schools crossing the street.

[tallman]

Following Russell, not responding to him.

 

We had a 6th grader killed this week crossing a street, not in a school zone, but going to school.

The driver, a 21 year old, was not cited.

But, as I said earlier, the consequences will last a lifetime.

 

I would extend this discussion to stopping for school buses which in effect are moving school zones.

It is amazing to see how people fail to stop when all the lights are flashing and stop signs are extended.

This violation is harder for LEO's to see and enforce.

Perhaps that is why they may target school zones.

Maybe they figure that if you're in that much of a hurry you need to learn a lesson.

 

[russell_bynum]

I would extend this discussion to stopping for school buses which in effect are moving school zones.

It is amazing to see how people fail to stop when all the lights are flashing and stop signs are extended.

 

That blows me away as well.

[Quinn]

Well, I get ticked if I stop for a school bus headed toward me with all lights flashing and it continues past me for another five hundred feet or so before stopping.

 

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[upflying]

Well, I get ticked if I stop for a school bus headed toward me with all lights flashing and it continues past me for another five hundred feet or so before stopping.

 

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I would logically assume that any requirement to stop for a flashing red light school bus is negated while the school bus is in motion.

In Ca, school buses have two types of warning lights. Amber flash while the bus is approaching a stop. Reds flash while the bus is stopped and actively picking up students. The bus driver's in NorCal are trained not activate the red lights until there is a break in approaching traffic.