Clutch slow to engage

[Traveler]

So far, the bike is torn down quite a bit. I have the tupperware, foot peg frames and tank off as well as the windscreen etc for some work up front.

 

I do not have the tail up yet. Had to work late and am now cooking dinner for the wife who had to work even later...

 

So, after that, I hope to get out into the garage and get the battery and airbox off and get the tail up.

 

May even get the slave cylinder out tonight. Who knows.

 

BTW, I found a leaking fork seal while tearing it down. It never ends. But, this bike will be in awesome condition when I finally get this crap done.

 

[Traveler]

 

Naked and lonely...

[OoPEZoO]

BTW, I found a leaking fork seal while tearing it down. It never ends. But, this bike will be in awesome condition when I finally get this crap done.

 

 

I knew I liked you. Keep telling yourself that.

 

As much as I bitch about my bike, and as much work as I have done to it......final drive, worn out clutch, rebuilt transmission, replaced shocks, leaky fork seals, HES, replaced brake rotor bobbins, pivot bearings, throttle cables, brake lines......yada yada yada. It is one sweet running machine when its not in the garage in pieces . I keep wanting to replace it, but its worth basically nothing on the open market and I have replaced just about everything except the motor (which I would do if it blew up tomorrow). I figure it will be in the garage forever.....barring unforeseen circumstances.

[Traveler]

I hate taking off the damn silencer... It doesn't want to come off very well.

 

Got the starter, throttle body tubes (or whatever they are called) battery, TONS of tie wraps, rear abs sensor etc off this evening. (and the silencer of course)

 

Still no tail in the air and no slave cylinder off.

 

However, there is a bunch of grunge under/infront of the right side of the ABS unit. Any ideas? Haven't looked up what it is yet, but the 1" dia hose that goes from the top of the engine to the air box obviously had oil covering it once upon a time and everything near it is really grungy. No standing oil or anything, but it is obvious that something leaked a while back and allowed a bunch of dirt to stick in it.

 

Any ideas? Worries? Concerns?

 

Keep you posted. This is like a form of ride report, only I'M NOT RIDING!!!!

 

But I do like to whine...

[OoPEZoO]

Whining is good.....that means you care

 

The tube you are referring to is the crank case breather hose. There is a possibility that at some point, there was too much oil in the engine and it decided to puke out that direction. Nothing to worry about. Just clean it up and go on with business.

[flars]

I don't understand why you are going tailintheair. You can get the slave cylinder out just by removing the rear wheel. It's a bit awkward, but definitely do-able.

[pjw73nh]

Trav,

 

Before going much further, PLEASE put a ratchet tie or other securing device between the center stand and front wheel. As you unload these bikes, their balance gets precarious. You don't want a dropped bike on top of the rest of your issues at this point.

 

Paul.../NH

[Traveler]

Whining is good.....that means you care

 

The tube you are referring to is the crank case breather hose. There is a possibility that at some point, there was too much oil in the engine and it decided to puke out that direction. Nothing to worry about. Just clean it up and go on with business.

 

That is what I was hoping. I will clean it up and move on.

[Traveler]

I don't understand why you are going tailintheair. You can get the slave cylinder out just by removing the rear wheel. It's a bit awkward, but definitely do-able.

 

What I fear is that it is NOT just the slave cylinder. Also, it has just under 40K miles on it, so it is time for the spline lube anyway, so I will get in there and determine exactly what is good/bad and do what is right while in there.

 

I am currently suspecting a seriously glazed clutch plate. We will see.

[Traveler]

Trav,

 

Before going much further, PLEASE put a ratchet tie or other securing device between the center stand and front wheel. As you unload these bikes, their balance gets precarious. You don't want a dropped bike on top of the rest of your issues at this point.

 

Paul.../NH

 

Done! Thanks! I usually do that, but did not have it done prior to this pic being taken. I have actually had a bike fall off the center stand when working under one once. (V-Strom at the time) and had to yell for my wife to come get me out from under the bike as I held if from laying fully over on top of me. Very scarey situation. Thanks for the tip. (Read my line at the bottom of my entry...)

[Traveler]

 

So I have the tail up. Wasn't too much of a pain, but I did miss one thing that held me up for a while. I never removed the frame bolts shown in pic below.

 

 

I then pulled the slave cylinder. Looks good to me? Pic below.

 

 

Am I supposed to pull the rod out of here now that the cylinder is removed? Pic below.

 

 

Also, this is what my fork looks like. Will be ordering new seals and dust seals when I get the tranny off and see what else needs to be replaced.

 

 

Oh, and my bench is a disaster...

 

 

I have not separated the tranny yet because I do not yet have the bolts to use as alignment pins. I will try the local hardware stores first. If not, I will have to try to get some overnighted from McMaster Carr as everyone else does...

 

The oily mess that I found on top of the engine just in front of the air box was from the breather tube being split and spitting oil out there. Guess that will need to be replaced too.

 

Sure was nice out today.

[Ken H.]

That slave does not look good to me. That gunk shouldn't be there.

 

Yes, now is the time to pull out the push rod. Otherwise you risk bending it when the tranny is backed out.

[Traveler]

Ok thanks. I just ordered a new cylinder from Beemer Boneyard.

 

I will see if the rod will pull out this evening.

 

Hope I can find a pair of M8 bolts...

[OoPEZoO]

I would think that you should be able to find the bolts at the hardware store. I ended up buying allen head cap bolts, grinding the ends off, and then slotted them using my dremel with a cutoff wheel.

 

 

[realshelby]

That slave does not look good to me. That gunk shouldn't be there.

 

Yes, now is the time to pull out the push rod. Otherwise you risk bending it when the tranny is backed out.

+1

I see a little pool of something in the pic of the transmission where the slave mounts. Is that brake fluid or transmission oil? Should not be either of them in there, if it is brake fluid your slave is bad. Could be the source of the "sticking" and would explain the clutch slippage.

[Traveler]

The fluid in the slave cylinder recess is all tranny fluid. Easy to tell the difference when you have it on your finger...

[Ken H.]

The fluid in the slave cylinder recess is all tranny fluid. Easy to tell the difference when you have it on your finger...

Yes. You have a leaky input shaft rear seal too. If when you pull the push rod if you find gear lube up further in the center of the shaft, a contaminated clutch pack is a real possibility.

[Traveler]

You are just FULL of good news. Now I need to figure out how to replace those seals too.

[Traveler]

 

In this picture, you can see tranny fluid in the slave cylinder recess. I had wiped out some of it before the picture and the entire outsie of the slave cylinder was soaked with tranny fluid.

 

I will be drilling and screwing the shown seal to pull it out and replace it. May be the cause of the issue. But, will know more this evening.

[Traveler]

I would think that you should be able to find the bolts at the hardware store. I ended up buying allen head cap bolts, grinding the ends off, and then slotted them using my dremel with a cutoff wheel.

 

 

Thanks Keith. I will do the same if they have the bolts at the hardware store on the way home this evening.

[Unhofliche_Gesundheit]

re; That slave does not look good to me. That gunk shouldn't be there

re: Ok thanks. I just ordered a new cylinder from Beemer Boneyar

re: The fluid in the slave cylinder recess is all tranny fluid

re: you have a leaky input shaft rear seal

 

!!

 

so the clutch slave cylinder was crudded up ... but likely that is just transmission fluid and you dont need to replace the slave... just needed to have cleaned it.

 

you could save some money - but at this point the money is spent.. and if it were me i would just replace the slave cylinder - peace of mind - keep the old as a spare.

 

(caveat - this is new to me - dont listen to what i say)

 

 

[realshelby]

Traveler, you can drill the seal and pull it out. Fairly straight forward to reseat the new one. I don't remember a "stop" built in so pay attention to how deep you seat the new seal. I did not want to say anything earlier when I saw the pictures of the apparently "dry" clutch assembly, but when I took mine apart the exterior did not show any obvious signs of oil leakage. When I pulled the bolts out of the pressure plate and the clutch disc was visible the contamination was obvious. I am betting that if you wiped some oil out of the slave cylinder area already you will find it to have also migrated down the pushrod to the disc. I don't know how, but it must drip off in exactly the right place to get on the fibre part of the disc. You are already close to having it apart, but for those doing this in the future I would love to see if the disc could be "cleaned" while in place thru the starter opening after replacing the seal.

[Ken H.]

for those doing this in the future I would love to see if the disc could be "cleaned" while in place thru the starter opening after replacing the seal.

Some people have tried, with some success, with spray brake cleaner through the (removed) starter hole. Not much to loose by trying I guess.

[Traveler]

My thoughts on the slave cylinder is that they go bad. Whether or not it is actually bad had little to do with me getting a new one. I DO NOT want to do ANY of this again so if it is even partially questionable, it gets replaced.

 

Doing this once. Doing it right.

[realshelby]

for those doing this in the future I would love to see if the disc could be "cleaned" while in place thru the starter opening after replacing the seal.

Some people have tried, with some success, with spray brake cleaner through the (removed) starter hole. Not much to loose by trying I guess.

With someone holding in the clutch lever and someone spinning the back tire by hand I think a pretty effective cleaning could be done. Might have to suck out the cleaning fluid from the housing with a might vac or something. But I digress, Traveler is certainly willing to do it all the way. I cannot wait to see the pics of the disc.

[Traveler]

Ok guys. Here it is:

 

It is DRY DRY DRY. There is NO oil anywhere in the clutch area. Nothing but tons of clutch dust. All the dust can either be blown away or just easily brushed off. The splines look great. I only took a pic of the input not on the clutch but they look equally great.

 

Input Splines:

 

 

Rear of engine dry as a bone.

 

 

The clutch housing is REALLY messed up with smeared metal and areas of almost gouging from what looks like clutch chatter to me. The pressure plate looks the same. It's not that there is much material missing or that it isn't shiney smooth, but it is NOT worn evenly. You can "sort of" see in the picture what looks like tons of finger prints on the surfaces, but it is not fingerprints, but where the clutch seems to have carved out material.

 

Pressure Plate

 

 

Housing

 

 

The clutch plate actually looks pretty good to me, but is really shiny and possibly glazed?

 

 

So, I am looking for advice from the collective. I am currently looking at replacing parts #'ed 5 through 8 on the fische below.

 

 

Anything wrong with my assumptions or choices of what to replace?

 

Right now, I am getting a new slave cylinder and felt, new clutch plate, pressure plate, housing and bolts along with the new fork seals, tranny seal that goes around clutch rod and the breather hose.

 

Anything else while this thing is still apart?

 

Thanks for all the advice all. Things have gone slowly this week due to my late work days and early starts. I have only been able to get in the garage about 1 hour per evening. But, believe me, your pictures and advice/knowledge has been great.

[Traveler]

Paging Dr Twisty... Or any Dr.? Was hoping to place an order this evening, but all the experienced people are actually out riding?

[Traveler]

Shopping cart at Max's is full. Just waiting for some sage advice to make me feel comfortable that I am doing the right thing here.

 

Going to bed... That means that either I am getting really old, or that I have to get up really early.

 

I hope that it is the latter..

 

And I am on East Coast time! So It is 9:40 here! 4:30 comes early!

[Boffin]

Your list looks good to me - a full clutch pack with new bolts, the slave, felt pad and hose is exactly what I would swap out. But then, I'm no expert...

 

Andy

[OoPEZoO]

You also need a new #4.....the diaphram spring (throwout bearing). The only other thing I would consider (since you are in there) would be to remove the flywheel and make sure the engine rear main seals are not leaking. If you decide to do it, you will also need new flywheel bolts, as they are one time use bolts. Other than that, I'd say you have everything well under control.

 

Man, I wish my splines looked like that when I tore mine apart. I'm sure that was a huge sigh of relief.

[Traveler]

Ok, another $65...

 

Yes, the good looking splines was a relief in that I don't have to split the tranny to replace the input shaft/bearings.

 

Now, I wait for parts to arrive while spring passes me by...

 

Just called Ohlins. Will take 3 WEEKS after they get the shocks to rebuild them due to eveyone keeping thier bikes and rebuilding them instead of purchasing new bikes...

 

 

[Traveler]

Well, Max BMW just got about $600 of my money. Stated that the parts will all be delivered some time on Saturday.

 

Depending on my schedule this weekend, I hope to put it back together soon.

 

What an adventure...

[OoPEZoO]

If you want to feel better, call your local dealer and ask how much they charge to replace those parts

 

 

[Traveler]

Yes, I know. It would have included about 12 hours of labor and I would have to wait for parts to come in and I would then have to wait for everyone elses bike to get done 1st...

 

Plus the nearest dealers are either 120 or 160 miles away.

 

Self reliance is the only way to go.

[Traveler]

So, the parts made it to the Post Office on Saturday. But not to my house. Didn't see that until it was too late to pick them up and they don't do afternoon delivery on Saturdays. So, the next day delivery was of no value.

 

They should be sitting on my door step when I get home tomorrow. At 9pm... I'm really NOT enjoying this 75 degree weather today. I HATE not having a bike to ride. I feel claustrophobic!

 

Ok, I'm done whining now. Happy Easter to all.

[Traveler]

Sure is getting a good cleaning while I wait however...

[Traveler]

So they "tried" to deliver the parts today. But Noooooooo. There is a signature authorization required... And of course I don't get home in time for delivery and the Post Office closes at 4:30. So my choices are to take time off from work tomorrow morning and try to beat the delivery person out the door and pick it up at the Post Office, or to put in the "no signature authorization required" card in the mail box. They will then take that card and return it to the Post Office and then redeliver the items on Wednesday.

 

Just a word of warning, in the notes section of your order, put in "no signature aurthorization required". Will NOT be home.

 

Otherwise you spend another 3 days of Spring with no motorcycle.

 

At least I have baseball to watch.

[Traveler]

Notice that I added three words to my sig line.

[Traveler]

 

MY PARTS HAVE ARRIVED!!! WOO HOO!!! THE END IS IN SIGHT!!!

 

The slave cylinder is already in, so that didn't make the picture. Now I am off to the garage to test my memory of where all the wires get routed.

 

Wish me luck!

[Traveler]

Doh! The tranny and clutch are installed and all the torquing is done. However, since I had already installed the slave cylinder, and since I did NOT install the clutch rod...

 

So, I took a break and came in to relax a bit. All is going well. Thanks to the advice and information from you all.

 

I will easily get the rest done by the weekend I believe and be able to get out and ride some.

 

And additional info for others. The tranny with shaft/rear wheel attached is NOT all that heavy.

 

Input seals are a bear to pull out! Tried the screw and pliers method and FAILED. So, I put a paint can opener into the slot that the screw had carved and put the "tooth" of the puller to the outside and had a really good grip behind the back of the seal. Came out with a "little" persuation with a rubber mallet. All is well. New seals installed in the input shaft and the one that goes around the clutch rod.

 

I used the handle that pulls my bike lift around as the "seal driver". Pulled off the rubber grip and viola! A perfect fit pipe to use to drive in the input shaft seal. I didn't have a deep well 24mm socket. So this worked perfect.

 

 

Again, thanks to all who gave support (even just encouragement) to this project.

 

Randy

 

[realshelby]

Input seals are a bear to pull out! Tried the screw and pliers method and FAILED

 

I used a sheet metal slide hammer for this. You can buy them at most auto parts stores in the bodywork section. Drill a 1/8" hole, screw the end of the tool into that, and give her a couple licks with the slide hammer. VERY good tool for seal removal in tight areas.

[Traveler]

For those who bought your "inexpensive" (cheap) torque wrenches at Harbor Freight and it only indicates torque in English Standard Units:

 

http://www.thetoolhut.com/

 

Go to this website and there are two printable torque charts to convert N-M to In-lbs or Lbs-Ft torque.

 

Very convenient instead of having to run to the calculator for the conversion for every torque setting.

 

Just a thought...

[Traveler]

Finished! It works great and I have no spare parts! And it is for sale... Shouldn't have ridden that K13GT.

 

http://www.cycletrader.com/find/listing/2004-Bmw-R1150RT-96742873

[Ken H.]

And it is for sale... Shouldn't have ridden that K13GT.

That'll teach 'ya!

[OoPEZoO]

And it is for sale... Shouldn't have ridden that K13GT.

That'll teach 'ya!

 

What he said

 

My '00 is still the newest BMW I have ridden. I've had plenty of offers, but I have refused them all for this very reason.

[Matts_12GS]

My '00 is still the newest BMW I have ridden. I've had plenty of offers, but I have refused them all for this very reason.

 

You can ride the GS in Dillsboro if you want...

[Traveler]

And it is for sale... Shouldn't have ridden that K13GT.

That'll teach 'ya!

 

What he said

 

My '00 is still the newest BMW I have ridden. I've had plenty of offers, but I have refused them all for this very reason.

 

Keith,

 

My advice to you is to never ride another bike but the one you have. If you really like your bike, ignorance IS bliss. Just don't ride a K13GT. DON'T DO IT!!!!

 

 

[OoPEZoO]

no worries for me getting suckered into a K-bike. It has too many cyclinders for me. I have a strict policy that I will no longer own a bike with more than 3 pistons.

 

It a personal thing of course, but I have always felt that the more pistons a bike has, the less soul it has.

[Traveler]

AH HA!!!!!!!! We have found you out! You are lusting after a Triumph! You are a closet Limey! (Just joking for all the English weenies out there)

 

 

[Paul Mihalka]

AH HA!!!!!!!! We have found you out! You are lusting after a Triumph! You are a closet Limey! (Just joking for all the English weenies out there)

 

Maybe a nice oldie K75 for commuting?