Anyone ridden a ZERO yet?

[KMG_365]

Me likey!

 

http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/zero-s-specs.php

 

And with a $1500.00 rebate I'm more tempted!

 

They're even American made--in California, no less!

 

Freeway legal, my commute is 20 miles every 24 hours, they have aluminum panniers for my laptop and I can charge the batteries from my solar panels . . . basically I could commute for FREE!!

 

The best part would be "blipping" the throttle pulled up next to one of my HD riding buddies! They thought my LAST bike was too quiet!!

[russell_bynum]

Looks cool but how many "free" commutes would it take to make up for the $9,000 price tag?

 

How long does the battery last before it has to be replaced?

 

I definitely like where this is going...just not convinced that we're there yet.

 

OTOH, 50lb/ft of torque in a 270lbs bike would be loads of fun...especially since that electric motor will give you all of that torque any time you twist the throttle.

[KMG_365]

Looks cool but how many "free" commutes would it take to make up for the $9,000 price tag?

You mean compared to my $18,000 beemer that I'd been using mostly for commuting?

 

Besides, Mr. Glass-half-empty, it's not ONLY and ALWAYS about cost. People said the same thing about my PV system in 2000. It's been "paid off" for three years now and with the new smart meters, time-of-use-based net metering rates and the new requirement that San Diego Gouge and Extortion (SDG&E) now buy my net surplus annual production, why . . . I might just buy a few more panels! Some ROI's are hard to value (for some of us anyway).

 

How long does the battery last before it has to be replaced?

 

link

 

Don't know if these are the exact same ones, but they do discuss addressing the cooling issue. Besides, it's a commuter for the coast, not a desert crossing tourer. My bigger fear is how it would hold up to all the corrosion. Scotts Valley/Santa Cruz isn't too far from the coast though . . . .

[russell_bynum]

Looks cool but how many "free" commutes would it take to make up for the $9,000 price tag?

You mean compared to my $18,000 beemer that I'd been using mostly for commuting?

 

Besides, Mr. Glass-half-empty, it's not ONLY and ALWAYS about cost. People said the same thing about my PV system in 2000. It's been "paid off" for three years now and with the new smart meters, time-of-use-based net metering rates and the new requirement that San Diego Gouge and Extortion (SDG&E) now buy my net surplus annual production, why . . . I might just buy a few more panels! Some ROI's are hard to value (for some of us anyway).

 

I'm an engineer...the glass isn't half-empty, it's twice as big as it needed to be.

 

The difference is the $18000 BMW will also take you cross-country, do more than 70mph (not that any of us would ever do that ) etc. $9K for a pure commuter seems like it doesn't make sense from a purely financial standpoint..especially when you consider alternatives at 1/3 the cost that get 80mpg...and can also be used for more than close-to-home stuff since they've got much longer range thanks to the ICE and a gas station on every corner.

 

Your solar system is a different ballgame because there really wasn't any other alternative...you either pay SDG&E or you invest in your own system. The break-even is fairly easy to calculate. With this, there's plenty of other alternatives and many of them are substantially cheaper.

 

But you're right...it's not always about cost. And with something like a motorcycle (here in the US anyway), it's almost never about cost. It's just that you mentioned cost stuff, so I got curious and went looking.

 

How long does the battery last before it has to be replaced?

 

link

 

Don't know if these are the exact same ones, but they do discuss addressing the cooling issue. Besides, it's a commuter for the coast, not a desert crossing tourer. My bigger fear is how it would hold up to all the corrosion. Scotts Valley/Santa Cruz isn't too far from the coast though . . . .

 

That's cool...sounds like those are getting better too.

 

Electric tech is really getting impressive. I've been farting around with some electric-powered RC planes the last few months and the performance is pretty incredible.

 

I'll bet this bike is a hoot to ride on tight twisty stuff. And the weight doesn't put it that far out of 450 motard range. Power/Weight is better than my DRZ400 and it's a riot in the tight stuff...even on knobbies. On sticky street tires??? Fuggedaboudit.

 

 

It really seems like the short range and long recharge time is the last big hurdle for these electrics. Hopefully they'll work that out as well.

[chrisd]

"Guaranteed Quality

 

Zero Motorcycles offers a two year standard warranty on all motorcycle purchases.

This warranty applies only to the original owner and does not cover finishes, cosmetic defects, labor or shipping."

 

That's not very encouraging.

 

 

 

[johnlt]

Ok Jamie, now answer honestly, what if the only place you could buy one was Walmart?

[RichEdwards]

Very interesting bike and, certainly, a hint of the future of motorcycling:

1. 275 lbs. and NO wet weight.

2. Perfect bike for off-roading where environmentalists and others hate dirt-bike noise.

3. Good combo bike with a long-distance BMW in the garage.

4. Good take-along bike for RV travelers.

5. No surging, throttle-body syncs, valve adjustments, etc., etc. And no "What's your favorite oil?" threads.

 

 

[johnlt]

I'm surprised they don't offer a "commuter" version. Could have less suspention, lower seat and maybe a top box or small panniers.

[Paul Mihalka]

Interesting bike, may have a future.

Jamie, when I saw the subject title what crossed my mind was a WWII Japenese fighter plane. I don't think any of us has ridden that

[russell_bynum]

2. Perfect bike for off-roading where environmentalists and others hate dirt-bike noise.

 

Except the tree huggers usually bitch just as much about tire tracks as noise and exhaust.

 

Also, with only a 50-mile range, you are pretty limited in what you can do with it. They've got to figure out the range and slow recharge problems before this is going to be viable.

[Boone60]

Looks cool but how many "free" commutes would it take to make up for the $9,000 price tag?

 

$9000 less the $1500 CA deal brings the price down to $7500.

 

Very interesting bike, not enough range yet for me to use as a commuter but the future is looking good.

[outpost22]

2. Perfect bike for off-roading where environmentalists and others hate dirt-bike noise.

 

Except the tree huggers usually bitch just as much about tire tracks as noise and exhaust.

 

Also, with only a 50-mile range, you are pretty limited in what you can do with it. They've got to figure out the range and slow recharge problems before this is going to be viable.

 

Got to agree with the limited range issue. Used to do 50 mile loops in Enduros. Hate to run out of juice at 48 miles and no trees to plug into.

 

I guess one could pack a spare battery at, what, 100 lbs each? yikes.

 

And I think Russell is right about just the simple fact there are anything BUT hikers out in the forest about frosts a lot of these people. Even trail riding my old trials bike (which was about as loud as an electric bike), would conjure up the frowns and discontent from this sort, even when I would cut the motor and stop 100 yards away from them and let them pass by.

[Dennis Andress]

I checked the seat height in the spec sheet --- 34 inches!!

[cali_beemer]

I have seen these. They are pretty cool. They were looking for engineers a while back, I applied and they asked me to come and interview for a job (I am a mechanical engineer) but I had just taken a different job when they called, plus it would have been a 3 hour commute. I told the wife it would have been my dream job designing motorcycles....

 

zero was featured on the jayleno garage but I cant find the clip.

[Firefight911]

 

zero was featured on the jayleno garage but I cant find the clip.

 

LINKY

[Bill_Walker]

Another recent story/video here. They're hinting at upcoming improvements to 80 mph/80-mile range.

 

I think there's also a federal tax credit available, in addition to the CA $1500 rebate.

 

They over both a "street" (motard-like) and dual-sport version as well as a couple of dirt-only bikes.

 

IIRC, the Brammo Enertia is significantly less expensive. But it's not freeway-legal.

[EddyQ]

The dirt version is 161 pounds. Unfortunately, it is only good for 2 hours. But, that would be a very fun 2 hours.

[Bill_Walker]

Another plus: no 6000-mile maintenance intervals! You do get a chain to lube, but other than that, it's just tires and brakes.

[Heck]

I checked the seat height in the spec sheet --- 34 inches!!

 

Alas even the greenies are biased against the inseam challenged..............

 

They could make it with a 28" seat and then the rest of us could drool and snivel about limited range and long charge cycles.....jeez...

[Kathy R]

Looks cool but how many "free" commutes would it take to make up for the $9,000 price tag?

 

$9000 less the $1500 CA deal brings the price down to $7500.

 

Very interesting bike, not enough range yet for me to use as a commuter but the future is looking good.

 

 

+1

275lbs YES

34" seat height??? Why???

[11101110]

50 mile range is two weeks of of commuting for me. My commute is so short that neither my bike or car can get up to temp. Now to just find the 9k.

 

Needs ABS.

[Bill_Walker]

Looks cool but how many "free" commutes would it take to make up for the $9,000 price tag?

 

$9000 less the $1500 CA deal brings the price down to $7500.

 

Very interesting bike, not enough range yet for me to use as a commuter but the future is looking good.

 

 

+1

275lbs YES

34" seat height??? Why???

 

Because it's basically a dual-sport bike, with long suspension travel. I'll bet that the seat height is much less once you're on it. And I'll also bet that they'll follow up with a pure street bike eventually.

[KMG_365]

I just inquired about a demo ride. We'll see!

[Mike]

Interesting concept. I don't find any of the current crop of electric vehicles to be compelling enough to purchase, but I'm warming to the idea of it at some point in the future. Clearly, the biggest obstacles right now are cost and limited range; something like the Zero has a fairly narrow market, given its current limitations. If you could snag something like this at around the $5,000 price point, it would be easier to overlook its limitations.

 

One of the things that nags me is this: If you come home, forget to plug the darned thing in, you're screwed when you go out to your garage the next morning to make your 50-mile round trip commute. The whole idea that the thing has to be tethered to a power source for an extended period of time is problematic. I wonder if (when?) the day will come when electric vehicles will be able to take a full charge in the matter of a few minutes, rather than hours.

[KMG_365]

I wonder if (when?) the day will come when electric vehicles will be able to take a full charge in the matter of a few minutes, rather than hours.

You can't change the laws of physics. I'd settle for thirty minutes!

[Mike]

I wonder if (when?) the day will come when electric vehicles will be able to take a full charge in the matter of a few minutes, rather than hours.

You can't change the laws of physics. I'd settle for thirty minutes!

 

Call me Kirk!

[EddyQ]

I wonder if (when?) the day will come when electric vehicles will be able to take a full charge in the matter of a few minutes, rather than hours.

You can't change the laws of physics. I'd settle for thirty minutes!

 

I thought some fuel cell research a while back showed some good results. It would take in hydrogen and air and you get electricity and water.

Hydrogen is explosive and this may be the cause of delayed release. Imagine stored hydrogen at every street corner (OMG). But, the concept would allow "filling up" similar to stopping at a gas station.

 

As for stored hydrogen on the vehicle, that too would likely make a spectacular blow if impacted. But, then again, Lithiom-ion battery's like those in the ZERO bikes could also be spectacular when impacted.

[cali_beemer]

I thought some fuel cell research a while back showed some good results. It would take in hydrogen and air and you get electricity and water.

Hydrogen is explosive and this may be the cause of delayed release. Imagine stored hydrogen at every street corner (OMG). But, the concept would allow "filling up" similar to stopping at a gas station.

 

 

There actually already are hydrogen filling stations for cars here in california. One myth about hydrogen, while is flamable and explosive, gasoline vapor is heavy and dense. When entered into the atmosphere, gasoline vapors linger and are more like to catch a flame. Hydrogen mixes and disipates into the atmosphere almost instataniously. I used to work for a hydrogen fuel cell company. We actually had to do flame testing for certifications. With the proper safety equipment it works pretty good.

[Bill_Walker]

Another issue with hydrogen fuel cells is the loss of efficiency in converting from electricity to hydrogen (you have to use power to split hydrogen off from water) and back to electricity. Hydrogen is just a storage medium, not a fuel. And, like gas, it has to be schlepped around to fuel stations by trucks instead of just sent over existing wires.

 

Lots of folks are working on fast charging, though. But those laws of physics are pesky.

[motoguy128]

My KLX250S was about 34" but squished down by 2-3 inches when I sat on it. Another 2" or so when my wife was on the back. The seat on DS bikes is also very narrow so that buys you a few more inches.

 

With about 3-5 more HP stock, and FI, that would have been the perfect dual sport. It only had a 80-100 miles range. I can't imagine a bike with a 50 miles range. Far too limiting.

 

A Stihl 1HP 4 stroke used on chainsaws and string trimmers only weighs about 15lbs with 1/2 gallon of fuel. That extra 800 Watts might be enough to extend the range 20 miles or so. I could see a 3 HP version weighing in at about 20lbs. Even a 1/2 gallon of fuel could net you 40-50 miles. And the extra 3 HP could bump top speed another 5 mph.

 

If hte engine is only supplemental, and only produces a small amount of pwoer, you don't need that heavy transmission, flywheel heayv subframe and the mtor and 1/2 gallon of fuel fits in a small package.

 

Just a thought.

[motoguy128]

I thought some fuel cell research a while back showed some good results. It would take in hydrogen and air and you get electricity and water.

Hydrogen is explosive and this may be the cause of delayed release. Imagine stored hydrogen at every street corner (OMG). But, the concept would allow "filling up" similar to stopping at a gas station.

 

 

There actually already are hydrogen filling stations for cars here in california. One myth about hydrogen, while is flamable and explosive, gasoline vapor is heavy and dense. When entered into the atmosphere, gasoline vapors linger and are more like to catch a flame. Hydrogen mixes and disipates into the atmosphere almost instataniously. I used to work for a hydrogen fuel cell company. We actually had to do flame testing for certifications. With the proper safety equipment it works pretty good.

 

I'm not sure that is totally correct. I just went through PSM training for our site which has more than 10k lbs of Hydrogen. Hydrogen requires almost 0 energy to ignite and burns in an extremely wide concentration range form 4-75%. Gasoline is only 1.4%-7.6%. The big difference though is the igniton energy. A pin hole leak in a hydrogen pipe generates enough friction to ignite the hydrogen escaping. IF I remember corrently a static shock is like 50 mjoules and hydrogen only needs 5 mjoules to ignite.

 

I think you can't dismiss the challenges of safety handling hydrogen. It does dissipate quickly, but it ignites so very easily.

[KMG_365]

I just inquired about a demo ride. We'll see!

Well, I just got a call from Brian at ZERO Motorcycles this afternoon. He's got a distributer in Oceanside who has a "ZERO X" model to demo. There might be an "S" model in Newport Beach that they could bring down to try as well.

 

Any interest in arranging a demo day here in SoCal?

 

Maybe we could arrange one in conjunction with Dennis/Bigfish's Tech Daze on March 27th in Vista, CA.

 

I dunno all the details, but it looks like there are even more incentives than I knew about at first:

 

$1500.00 instant rebate from CA (CARB), 10% Federal Tax Credit (~$995.00 liability tax credit taken on next year's taxes), sales and excise tax exempt as well.

 

The bike is based on a dual-sport frame so it has about 7" of suspension travel on the front and ~6" on the rear. The optional 32" seat height will compress a bit more and can be modded further for now.

 

Since I might still need the occasional commuter bike . . . . If I factor in all the maintenance costs I WON'T be doing as well as the gas I won't be buying into the price of the bike, I might be looking at a replacement for Maynard here pretty soon!

 

Arianrhod's already up on the block and I think Maynard's getting a bit nervous that he might be next!

 

 

[KMG_365]

Bill Walker sent me a review from motorcycle.com that I thought was interesting.

 

After my inquiry regarding a test ride I was contacted by phone by both someone from the company (central CA) as well as a more local sales guy (Oceanside, northern SD County) who had a DS there to demo. He had an S in Orange County that he could get on appointment if I was interested more in that. I was trying to set something up for Bigfish's Tech Daze in Vista last month, but this guy was out of town that day. He also told me he's got a modified electric Ninja bike he really wants me to check out, so I'll probably follow up when my crazy schedule permits.

 

I can send anyone the sales guy's phone number if you're interested in following up. I'm mildly curious about the electric Ninja, but looking at how light the ZERO's frame is and the custom layout to accommodate the battery, I can't imagine the Ninja being any better for range--speed maybe--depending on how it's geared up. For commuting on the freeway I need a bit more speed than I do a 40 mile range on a charge since my commute is less than 20 miles one way.

[russell_bynum]

I can send anyone the sales guy's phone number if you're interested in following up. I'm mildly curious about the electric Ninja, but looking at how light the ZERO's frame is and the custom layout to accommodate the battery, I can't imagine the Ninja being any better for range--speed maybe--depending on how it's geared up. For commuting on the freeway I need a bit more speed than I do a 40 mile range on a charge since my commute is less than 20 miles one way.

 

Just thinking out loud....if it's based on a modern sportbike chassis/body, it should be a good bit more aerodynamic than the motard. That'll mean better speed and/or more range, assuming you're willing to "assume the position".

 

Also, don't discount the fact that the big four pour HUGE amounts of R&D money into making their sportbikes as light as possible. Now...some of that goes out the window because they have to handle 120hp in race trim (assuming it's a 600...I suppose they could be using the new 250 chassis, which should be a good bit lighter), but still....it would be hard to compete with those engineering dollars.

[motoguy128]

As you add speed, your range is of course going to drop.

 

All sportbikes sportbikes are designed with gross vehcicle weight limits to accomodate a passenger. If optimized for a single rider, the frame could be made much lighter. The limitations manufacturing techniques for mass production also affect weight.

 

I thought the review was very good. There were some major limitations, but its' a start.

 

 

I too would like to see a small aerodynamic sportbike style machine as anoption. I could defnitely see it having a hgiher top speed and better range through better aerodynamics.

 

I alos think that it woudl be worth the weight penalty ito have a small maybe 5 HP engine and 1 gallon fuel tank ot recharge the batteries and improve range, making it a hybrid. It also could use similarly regernative braking. I could see these options on a 400lb fully faired sportbiek version.