Damn road snakes

[kiwiaudio]

First ride of the season yesterday reminded me big time of the inherent twitchiness of the RT front end. I don't know what it is, but the feeling is one that reminds me of those road tar snakes that give that disconcerting head twitch. I'm hoping my RT is not unique and you all know what I mean, because I cannot find any cause for this ! I know that speed is not relevant, and when it happens I'm always looking back for something I may have ridden over.

Probaby another TADT - right ?

[Boffin]

First ride of the season yesterday reminded me big time of the inherent twitchiness of the RT front end. I don't know what it is, but the feeling is one that reminds me of those road tar snakes that give that disconcerting head twitch. I'm hoping my RT is not unique and you all know what I mean, because I cannot find any cause for this ! I know that speed is not relevant, and when it happens I'm always looking back for something I may have ridden over.

Probaby another TADT - right ?

 

No - at least both of my oilheads have been stable - very stable - at the front, with no twitchiness at all and particularly good on rough sufaces.

 

With some tyres, the bike 'falls-in' to corners - especially when they are worn - but otherwise I have found the bike to be quite the opposite of what you describe.

 

As to why yours is twitchy? Is the ball-joint on the forks worn? how is the top bearing? Has the bike been crashed (alignment)? Is it just feel - ie, have you tried another RT?

 

Andy

[T__]

kiwiaudio, I wouldn’t say what you are feeling is normal.. Things like worn or low tires can cause it as well as worn or bent parts..

 

 

How are you tires as far as wear & especially step wear goes (how many miles on them?)

 

Put your bike up on the center stand & give both the front & rear wheels a good hearty shake.. Look for ANY looseness or wheel movement.. Something like a loose rear wheel bearing can cause what you are feeling.. Look for loose rear pivot bearings..

 

Look for loose bolts on the fork bridge & pay special attention to the upper neck bearings for being loose (grab the front wheel from the front of the bike & try real hard to move it rear to front a few times)..

 

If your tires have any step wear that can make the bike kind of squirrely as it transitions off center tire.. Look closely as it doesn’t take much wear to effect the handling..

 

 

Twisty

 

 

[AndyS]

.....inherent twitchiness of the RT front end. .....

I'm hoping my RT is not unique....

Probaby another TADT - right ?

 

kiwiaudio,No, it is not a case of TADT. The RT front end of the RT is exactly the opposite of twitchy. It as a very stable geometry.

So, to the problem.

1/. Are you sure it is front end?

2/. Have you checked your tyre pressures?

Try increasing them and seeing what happens.

3/. Put the bike on the centrestand and have the front wheel off the ground. gently move the steering left and right while feeling the steering. Does it feel notchy? is so steering head bearings may be on their way out.

4/. Grab the front wheel and try to twist it (not rotate it). Is there any play? if so could be wheel bearings going.

5/. How old are your tyres?

6/. How worn are your tyres?

7/. Check the FD pivot for wear (if you are unsure get back to us).

8/. Check the FD bearing for wear.

9/. Check the swing arm for movement.

10/. Check the front wheel spindle tightness (I'd go as far as to say loosten everything off as for front wheel removal, then retighten making sure all is lined up correctly.

11/. Check the fork bridge for tightness.

12/. Check the rear wheel nuts are secured correctly.

Andy

[kiwiaudio]

Well, i've done all you mention before guys, but i'll check again. I take it any fault with the ball joint or top bearing should reveal itself as play when doing the fork grab and shake test right? I'll do it again ! I've been wrenching on bikes for years and know the feel of a bad head bearing, but these are different animals granted !

I can detect no evidence of the bike having been crashed, and the former owner was a very honest trustworthy guy. The bike does have the normal pull-to-the-right that requires slight left hand pressure but i'd never take my hands off the bars with this one.

The front tire is a metzeler 880, and though it has been on the bike since I bought it, still looks fine with no abnormal wear or balance issues. I'll check the mileage, though she still has good tread. I've looked at it hard because this feels like a tire issue ! I've played with the pressure and it doesn't make a difference.

Andys comment about being good on rough surfaces is completely contrasting my own experience - I'm hanging onto this thing like its alive over rough stuff, especially if stones are around. All the above and a corner too - im all but putting a foot down !

The rear end has had the pivot bearings replaced about two years ago and there is zero play anywhere that I can find.

I have not ridden another RT though, perhaps I should but that is a rare beast around me. In three years of ownership, I've only seen 2 1100's and 1 1150 on the road, and that includes a 3000 mile round trip from Ohio to Denver.

Maybe I'll make a trip to a dealer that has one for sale, and give it a whirl.

[T__]

kiwiaudio, well if all is tight & not bent then I’m betting on a tire issue..

 

It sounds like your front tire is a bit long in the tooth even though the tread looks good..

 

With you working on or around bikes for along time I’ll bet you have a right angle grinder sander around (even a belt sander will work).. Raise the front wheel & get it spinning then take the right angle grinder or belt sander with something in the 60 to 80 grit range & re-contour the front tire to have a new-like round profile.. That will not only rough it up but will take any step wear out of it..

 

If that helps your handling issue the good or at least it will help pin point a front tire issue..

 

 

Twisty

 

[rad]

Andys comment about being good on rough surfaces is completely contrasting my own experience - I'm hanging onto this thing like its alive over rough stuff, especially if stones are around. All the above and a corner too - im all but putting a foot down !

 

It could very well be that your shocks are shot, or not set up for you.

 

Another thought, at least for me back on a Telelever, is that the front is not confidence inspiring if you are use to the constant feedback of conventional forks. I can't tell what my front is doing; I just have to trust that it is staying put.

[kiwiaudio]

Ok, I cannot find a thing wrong with this bike. I found after reading the former owners excellent notes, that the front tire actually has 14,500 miles on it, but it has no step wear at all, 3/32" in the center tread, 4/32" on the outer, and has only slight feathering on the left side, probably due to the PTTR. I would have to get into a good lean to get into the feathering part though, and the twitchy symptom is in straightline riding! Still - it has to be the tire as I've eliminated everything else.

It does have an aftermarket larger windsheild, and she will get kicked around behind a car @ 70mph, but I can get this twitchy feeling at 20mph !

The rear tire is in great shape and has 3000 on it, and there is no play anywhere in the rear end. Rear shock may be original for all I know, but nothing is wrong with it, the front shock has 7000 miles.

Rad may have a point about the feel of the telelever, as all my former bikes have had conventional forks. Still, I do have 8000 miles of telelever experience now - not a lot I know, but I think I need to find another RT and take it for a spin.

Any sympathetic members in central Ohio ?

[Polo]

I also find my RT most confidence inspiring, never feeling that twitchiness you describe.

 

I would suspect the tire, with 14,500 miles on it, it can't be too fresh regardless of thread depth.

 

I would change the tire, make sure the shock is OK although it is only 7,000 miles old.

 

The RT has the most forgiving suspension of any bike I ever rode.

 

Good luck.

[philbytx]

Definitely sounds like a tire issue. 14500 is VERY long in the tooth for a tire but to check the age, look at the manufacture date of the front tire!

 

[kiwiaudio]

"14500 is VERY long in the tooth for a tire "

 

The manufacturing date is 3005, which if i remember my tire codes is the 30th week in 2005 ?

 

Granted Phil, its a long time, but when you think about it, don't you think a fault with a tire should not be sporadic? It should shake, shimmy , squirm - whatever, all the time, not every 10 miles or so ??

Now, if the tire is so slick as to slip momentarily off the side of a small undulation in the road, I could see this twitchiness event - but is this likely with a warmed up tire that behaves very well in the corners?

The rubber on my tire is not hardened the way old rubber gets shiny, hard and slick - it still feels normal, so maybe it flexes abnormally when hitting a deviation in the road ?

I could go with that I guess. I'll order a new one and see what happens - after all, I've gotten my moneys worth out of this one yes?

 

I'm going to get some static from my buddy who repeatedly runs his goldwings tires down to the cords, which he'll admit is stupid as all get out ! But then this is a guy that thinks drivers licenses and insurance are optional!

 

Reminds me of a '73 honda CB550 I parted out a few years ago that still had the original tires on it. They were so hardened with age that brittle would best describe them, and another ignorant friend took it down the road getting it up to 60mph before we stripped it down !!

Maybe i need smarter friends - Haha, takes all kinds doesn't it !

 

 

[breyfogle]

I've got to go against the prevailing opinions here. IMHO, if the bike shakes its head while rolling into or thru a turn, then a flattened or cupped front tire might be the cause. If the bike shakes its head while rolling straight and level it probably is not the tire. Based on your descriptions, I would be looking for a mechanical problem. R11xx's of all flavors should be very stable.

 

I would start by removing the after market wind screen and see what effect that has, if any. I would then recheck the back end, the pivot bearing and final drive for free play. I would also check the Telelever pivots and ball joint. Maybe the front wheel bearings also.

 

All that being said, with 14,500 miles on the front tire, on a bike as heavy as an RT, the tire should be replaced just because its time is up. Modern motorcycles tire are just not meant to last 5 years / 15,000 miles !

 

[outpost22]

Have to agree with others. Sounds like a cupped tire, wheel bearings, or loose/worn suspension components(s). That is unless you're riding over these all of the time:

 

[AndyS]

Ok, I cannot find a thing wrong with this bike. I found after reading the former owners excellent notes, that the front tire actually has 14,500 miles on it, but it has no step wear at all, 3/32" in the center tread, 4/32" on the outer, and has only slight feathering on the left side, probably due to the PTTR.

Wow...at 14500 miles I would also doubt the previous owners notes. That is a huge mileage to do with the tyre still showing a fair amount of tread. Again if it is a real mileage I am very envious, but if my bike was twitchy, I would consider a tyre change anyway.

Andy

[Clive Liddell]

I googled the Metzeler recommended tyres and the ME 880 were not amongst their recommendations.

 

I have, however, heard of people using them on Oilheads...

 

I have had absolutely no problems on my Oilheads using brands that BMW list on the sticker under the seat (or that the tyre manufacturers list).

 

[philbytx]

IMHO, replacing an almost 5 year old tyre (you are correct - 30th week of 05) with a "supposed" 14500 miles on it is the first prudent step in analyzing your handling issue. 4 1/2 years old is not THAT old but storage issues can also affect tyres. Tyre issues can be amazingly frustrating as you do not know what the PO did to them. Run them on a too low or too high pressure, hit a kerb (carcass issues) etc.

 

If it DOES solve the problem, you are really out nothing on the deal ! However, having a new and balanced wheel on the front will definitely assist you on working back on the other components.

 

BTW - I run Conti RoadAttacks (reasonably priced!!) on both my 2003 RT and my 2000 R and like them a lot . They stick like crap to a blanket, get decent mileage and really roll nicely into turns with good feedback. Well, as good as it gets with a telelever anyway

 

Good luck with your issues.....enquiring minds and all that !!!

[Selden]

Conti RA's are also pretty quiet, and have a really cool tread pattern.

 

A few years bought a used bike that just didn't steer right; although the front tire looked fine, I replaced it. Problem solved; if I remember right, there was a belt separation problem -- invisible from the outside.

 

For the record, I've never gotten even 10,000 miles out of a modern tire -- 14,500 is unbelievable for a tire described as having good tread.

[kiwiaudio]

I wouldn't doubt the owners notes as they are very detailed and anal. I've tried to keep them going since I bought it, and i cannot - and everyone calls ME anal !

I'm making a trip down to my home country New Zealand next month, so all disposable cash will be tied up for a while, but a new tire is definitely where I'll start when I get back.

Can't see it being the issue, but what the hell, i've seen weird things before with tires - cage tires too !

[kiwiaudio]

If appearance was the only consideration, this baby would not be replaced by the majority of us.

[kiwiaudio]

pic look worse than it is actually !

[philbytx]

 

Did the PO ride it like a Uni-cycle !!!

[kobukan]

If appearance was the only consideration, this baby would not be replaced by the majority of us.

That looks just like the Metzler ME880 on the front of my 1150RT. It was installed thirteen months ago and currently has 15,852 miles on it. It still has 1/16” tread depth at the center. My rear ME880 was installed eleven months ago, currently has 13,202 miles on it and still has some life left - not down to the wear bars yet. I don’t ride it like a sport bike, but I certainly don’t baby it and I ride year-round - I love the 880’s.

 

Even with the wear on these tires I would describe the front end of the RT as rock solid, certainly not “twitchy.” The bike does tend to feel like it “falls” into the corners a little due to the wear on the tires and I will notice a difference when the tires are replaced, which obviously will be before very soon for the front – like next week.

 

14,500 miles on your tire is possible, and not necessarily a problem in itself, but as others have mentioned the tire may have issues you can’t see. Based on what you’re experiencing, not knowing what the tire’s been through, the tire being five years old and pretty much at the end of it’s life anyway I would change it ASAP to begin the process of elimination and start narrowing down what the problem may be. Hopefully a new tire will solve the problem, but if it doesn’t at least you’ll know it’s something else.

 

[kiwiaudio]

15,852 miles in 13 months !!! WOW !

Glad to see i'm not alone getting this mileage on the 880 Kobukan.

It came with the bike, but I've read nothing but good about 880's.

I'll be trying another tire soon - hopefully my flaky front end will be fine afterward.