KBB and Edmunds vs. Craigslist

[russell_bynum]

We've been looking for a used Jeep Wrangler the last few days and the pricing that I'm seeing doesn't make sense to me.

 

I find a vehicle. Look it up on KBB and Edmunds and get the price range for private party sale. KBB and Edmunds are generally pretty close. But the asking price on craigslist is WAY higher.

 

I know you're supposed to start high and then negotiate down, but most of these asking prices are so high I feel like I would just be wasting my time driving around to see these vehicles.

 

For example...I found one that KBB and Edmunds says should be between $4700 and $5200. The guy is asking $6800 and has in ALL CAPS not to insult him with a low-ball offer because this is what he's going to get for this Jeep.

 

So...what's going on? Is KBB/Edmunds low? Are these guys just asking really high and planning on negotiating down to KBB/Edmunds value? Or is everyone selling a Jeep TJ right now in my area completely delusional about the value of their vehicle?

 

I haven't bought a used car this way before, but I've bought used bikes and the asking price is always in the general ballpark of what is reasonable and what they'll actually sell for.

[yabadabapal]

One of the reasons I could think that the asking price is quite higher than Edmunds or KBB

is that possibly the car being sold is still owned by a lien holder, bank, credit union, in which case

seller has no choice but to meet the buyout, which is often higher than what the vehicle is worth. Other than

that, in this economy, sellers might be selling things they are selling to meet other loan demands and have a higher

than usual price to satisfy the payoff on other nonvehicle related loans. Sorry your having a tough time. I have

no real explanation.

Here is another cross reference link for you to compare your prices.

 

http://www.nada.com/

 

I wouldn’t hesitate to call the seller your interested in and just discuss the KBB and Edmunds price quote that you

compared to what they are asking for, and simply ask them “if they would consider being more market fair and friendly

in which case if you like the car, you will buy it”. If you have cash, you’re the king, not them, not the seller.

 

[Patallaire]

Just look in our classified ads - you see the same.

[Husker Red]

 

Some sellers think they are selling for "retail" value.

 

Here in Georgia buyers don't have to pay sales tax on privately purchased vehicles, so that can push the "value" of a privately sold car a bit higher than KBB.

 

 

 

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

One of the reasons I could think that the asking price is quite higher than Edmunds or KBB

is that possibly the car being sold is still owned by a lien holder, bank, credit union, in which case

seller has no choice but to meet the buyout, which is often higher than what the vehicle is worth. Other than

that, in this economy, sellers might be selling things they are selling to meet other loan demands and have a higher

than usual price to satisfy the payoff on other nonvehicle related loans.

 

That might explain why a seller would want to get more money for the sale; it doesn't explain why he would expect that a buyer might be willing to pay more (other than wishful/delusional thinking on the seller's part).

 

I wouldn't hesitate to call the seller your interested in and just discuss the KBB and Edmunds price quote that you

compared to what they are asking for...

 

Ayup. Just to be diplomatic, you might tell the seller that you're seeing similarly elevated prices in a number of blassified ads, and you're wondering how he arrived at his asking price.

[tallman]

Ask your local retail dealers which guide they use.

I'll bet NADA is more often the pick.

The numbers in each guide are determined by different processes.

 

Remember, CASH, talks.

Good luck.

 

And yes, in some of our classified ads it seems like the price is too high.

[Polo]

What they all have said, plus...

 

If you're trying to buy a typical Jeep, it is quite possible that the current owner thinks too highly of it, and is influenced by its original purchase price. For your area NADA is not going to be a good reference, KBB and Edmunds are closer to represent reality.

 

As to hurting somebody's sensitivity by making a realistic offer, I wouldn't be too concerned. You may be doing them a favor.

 

Try looking on flatter states. It's not uncommon to find that Jeeps are more like boats for folks in Kansas. The off roading experience there is more like finding an occasional pebble than climbing up a hill.

 

I have a few friends in the biz still, PM what you're looking for, I may be able to help.

 

[Mike]

Apart from the posturing for negotiation, I think a lot of people are pretty unrealistic about the value of their used cars, sometimes mistaking the asking price in classified ads for what they're really selling for.

 

NADA/Edmunds/KBB tend to be pretty accurate. I'd also suggest you take a look at Carmax's "no haggle" prices for these vehicles to get a realistic price range. Truthfully, I'd ignore the ads that are overpriced by 20-30% and indicate that they're not going to entertain offers . . . it's a waste of time. Either the seller will be sitting on that Jeep for a long time or some fool will pay the inflated price. As for the others, I wouldn't hesitate to take the price reports for the model along with you; if it's a vehicle you want, whip out those price reports as part of your negotiation.

 

Also, in addition to Craigslist, you might want to check out cars.com and/or autotrader.com, which tend to have a fair number of private listings.

[BanjoBoy]

What's said above, and you probably have to just keep looking.

I don't know about Jeeps, but after selling and buying bikes recently, I found there are a lot of people who are way high (literally I think they're hitting the crack pipe!) and then there are people who are realistic.

We are in a deep recession, so you can find stuff below KBB/NADA/Edmunds if you keep looking.

[Joel]

For example...I found one that KBB and Edmunds says should be between $4700 and $5200. The guy is asking $6800 and has in ALL CAPS not to insult him with a low-ball offer because this is what he's going to get for this Jeep.

 

Dude's begging to be insulted. Go on, do it.

 

Having bought and sold homes, bikes and small businesses relatively recently, my take is that a whole lotta people are in denial about the economy's impact on values, not the least of which is that the scarcity of credit has drastically shrunk the pool of real potential buyers. Being firm but fair, with cash in hand and some patience, will probably get you what you want.

[Dennis Andress]

Flea-bay will let you see prices on completed auctions. Follow a few and keep track of what they sold for. If a vehicle doesn't sell it'll often come up again in a week or so with a lower reserve or Buy Now.

 

Dennis

[eddd]

...Being firm but fair, with cash in hand and some patience, will probably get you what you want.

 

Gotta agree with that.

 

I've kept track of the information in classified ads and Craig's, calling back on them after a few weeks. You might find they still have the item and are much more realistic about its value.

 

As other have said, cash talks. Pulling out a wad of cash along with a list of other sellers you're going to visit that day sure does seem to be a great negotiating tool.

 

More to your original question. People often add several accessories to Jeeps and then add something close to the purchase cost to the base price of the Jeep when deciding what to ask.

 

 

 

 

[hANNAbONE]

... www.cARS.com ....

[Gregori]

FWIW:

 

KBB is based on ASKING price, NADA is based on SOLD prices, and Edmunds - well, as far as I can tell, Edmunds just makes stuff up. (There's no rhyme or reason there - and they're often WAY off base, so I pretty much ignore it unless it provides data that's advantageous to my selling/buying position.)

 

That said - ALL of the guides are just that - guides. They don't always reflect what the local marketplace may have to offer, and in many cases are simply delusional.

 

[eddd]

You can probably get this one at a reasonable price.

 

[big-t]

 

So...what's going on? Is KBB/Edmunds low? Are these guys just asking really high and planning on negotiating down to KBB/Edmunds value? Or is everyone selling a Jeep TJ right now in my area completely delusional about the value of their vehicle? eek

 

Supply and Demand.

 

GOOD vehicles in that price range sell rather quickly and often bring more,especially the ones that fall into the specialty category like a Wrangler.Even at the dealer auctions they bring a better price. The sellers know this and use that to their advantage to get the most out of it.

 

The pricing guides usually do not reflect S&D,nor does the bank...

 

[Bill_Walker]

For example...I found one that KBB and Edmunds says should be between $4700 and $5200. The guy is asking $6800 and has in ALL CAPS not to insult him with a low-ball offer because this is what he's going to get for this Jeep.

 

Dude's begging to be insulted. Go on, do it.

 

I expect that Russell's innate shyness is holding him back.

 

[skinny_tom (aka boney)]

...Being firm but fair, with cash in hand and some patience, will probably get you what you want.

 

Gotta agree with that.

 

I've kept track of the information in classified ads and Craig's, calling back on them after a few weeks. You might find they still have the item and are much more realistic about its value.

 

As other have said, cash talks. Pulling out a wad of cash along with a list of other sellers you're going to visit that day sure does seem to be a great negotiating tool.

 

More to your original question. People often add several accessories to Jeeps and then add something close to the purchase cost to the base price of the Jeep when deciding what to ask.

 

 

 

 

Ed has it. Watch craigslist patiently for a while. Make note of the Jeeps you like. After a while you'll see that some of them have been there for a month. That is when you want to go see it.

 

 

[Boone60]

I wouldn’t hesitate to call the seller your interested in and just discuss the KBB and Edmunds price quote that you

compared to what they are asking for, and simply ask them “if they would consider being more market fair and friendly

in which case if you like the car, you will buy it”. If you have cash, you’re the king, not them, not the seller.

 

This what I did when I bought my Corvette. I felt the price being asked was much to high, so I called and said, "I don't understand how you've priced this vehicle." He replied that he was just trying to get the best price for the car but he was probably over-priced. Together we came up with a price we both thought was fair, and exactly what similar vettes were selling on E-bay for.

[russell_bynum]

Thanks everyone. Looks like I need to do some more research.

 

 

...and get over my shyness.

 

 

[alimar]

I'll +1 Joel and also plug www.cars.com. Great referance guide. I'll also say that some people don't necessarily care to sell their wares unless the price is stupid. Sucker born every minute... If the guy says 6800, maybe someone is sucker enough to go 6500. Research, play your own game, patience and if possible CASH. Walk into a $5000 ask with a %5000 private party reasonalbe value with $4000 in green, some will bite. No haggle, no check, no wait, just slam the green.

[russell_bynum]

We picked up a nice '94 YJ 4.0L 5spd today for a very reasonable price.

 

It is pretty much stock, so let the mods begin!

[RavennaAl]

One more thing to take into consideration is where you live. Here in Michigan, a 2003 Jeep has spent 7 winters in salt-infected snow and is usually half rusted out. In California, the only salt a Jeep will see is what has spilled out of the french fry's the owner was eating, so the body, frame and rest of the vehicle is usually in near new condition, as far as rust goes. So, I would expect vehicles in California to typically sell for more than in Michigan, where the life of the vehicle is considerably less, due to rust rot. This would apply to other rust belt states, as well as other non-rust belt states, comparably speaking. I don't think Kelly takes that sort of thing into account.

[Selden]

I'll +1 Joel and also plug www.cars.com. Great referance guide. I'll also say that some people don't necessarily care to sell their wares unless the price is stupid. Sucker born every minute... If the guy says 6800, maybe someone is sucker enough to go 6500. Research, play your own game, patience and if possible CASH. Walk into a $5000 ask with a %5000 private party reasonalbe value with $4000 in green, some will bite. No haggle, no check, no wait, just slam the green.

The sight of a wad of bills can have an almost hypnotic effect with a private seller.

[Bill_Walker]

One more thing to take into consideration is where you live. Here in Michigan, a 2003 Jeep has spent 7 winters in salt-infected snow and is usually half rusted out. In California, the only salt a Jeep will see is what has spilled out of the french fry's the owner was eating, so the body, frame and rest of the vehicle is usually in near new condition, as far as rust goes.

 

Mostly true, but not always. A vehicle that has lived in one of our lovely beach areas is very likely to have a lot of corrosion due to salt air. It won't be as bad as what you get in Michigan, but it will be on pretty much every surface. Chrome and aluminum are particular targets.

 

And you can always tell the cars that belonged to surfers. They're the ones that are rusting out around the rain gutters (from carrying wet boards on roof racks).

[jaytee]

We picked up a nice '94 YJ 4.0L 5spd today for a very reasonable price.

 

It is pretty much stock, so let the mods begin!

 

I've owned a bunch of jeeps (YJ, XJ, CJ) and done tons of mods. I love that 4.0l engine you got - one of my favs. I have no idea what you plan on donig with the vehicle but on our YJ we did a 4" suspension lift, 33 x 12.50 BFG mud-terrains, Detroit softlocker, 4.10 gears, a Warn 8000lb winch, a custom back-rack with 3 jerry cans, full-sized spare, Hi-Lift jack mount and cooler mount.

 

A warning though: If you are conscientious enough to get a winch for self-extraction I guarantee you will use it mainly to help other fools out. Out of the 12 "combat-pulls" we did wit hthe winch, 10 were for strangers, one was for a riding buddy and one was for me burying the jeep to the frame in snow above 8000' in the sierra national forest.

 

Until we had kids (7 years) my wife and I jeeped SoCal and Central Cal mountains every other weekend for 6-9 months out of each year. It's a *great* hobby and the peopel you meet are all quality folks.

 

Remeber: Tread Lightly!

 

JT

 

PS: First serious mod for off-road capability you can do is to get a set of anti-sway bar disconnects. You can do 90% of all trails in SoCal with that mod alone and a set of 30" tires on a YJ.

[Gregori]

A warning though: If you are conscientious enough to get a winch for self-extraction I guarantee you will use it mainly to help other fools out.

 

That's why the 15K winch on my Unimog has a rear mount. I've never used it for myself. (Well, I used it to pull out a tree stump once, but never to pull MYSELF out...)

[russell_bynum]

We picked up a nice '94 YJ 4.0L 5spd today for a very reasonable price.

 

It is pretty much stock, so let the mods begin!

 

I've owned a bunch of jeeps (YJ, XJ, CJ) and done tons of mods. I love that 4.0l engine you got - one of my favs. I have no idea what you plan on donig with the vehicle but on our YJ we did a 4" suspension lift, 33 x 12.50 BFG mud-terrains, Detroit softlocker, 4.10 gears, a Warn 8000lb winch, a custom back-rack with 3 jerry cans, full-sized spare, Hi-Lift jack mount and cooler mount.

 

A warning though: If you are conscientious enough to get a winch for self-extraction I guarantee you will use it mainly to help other fools out. Out of the 12 "combat-pulls" we did wit hthe winch, 10 were for strangers, one was for a riding buddy and one was for me burying the jeep to the frame in snow above 8000' in the sierra national forest.

 

Until we had kids (7 years) my wife and I jeeped SoCal and Central Cal mountains every other weekend for 6-9 months out of each year. It's a *great* hobby and the peopel you meet are all quality folks.

 

Remeber: Tread Lightly!

 

JT

 

PS: First serious mod for off-road capability you can do is to get a set of anti-sway bar disconnects. You can do 90% of all trails in SoCal with that mod alone and a set of 30" tires on a YJ.

 

We're not planning on anything too crazy. Probably a 2.5" lift and 33x12.5's and that's really about it. This is Lisa's toy, btw.

 

Swaybar disconnects for sure. Maybe telescoping track bar if she needs more articulation.

 

First test should be this weekend. It's already got 30x9.5's and I'll just pop the swaybar end links off manually when we get there.

 

BTW, we had a '98 TJ Sahara for five years. Only time I've ever regretted getting rid of a vehicle. I wish a TJ had been in the budget for this time, but they were just too much $$.

 

Then again...this YJ is starting to grow on me. It's much simpler than my TJ was. Lots of farmer engineering...and I can relate to that. With the right mods it should be quite capable offroad.

[jaytee]

We're not planning on anything too crazy. Probably a 2.5" lift and 33x12.5's and that's really about it. ...Swaybar disconnects for sure. Maybe telescoping track bar if she needs more articulation.

 

IIRC, 33/12.50's will not fit a YJ without a 4" lift, although wheel/tire/suspension fitment may have changed substantially since we were last active in the hobby. Our YJ was nearly bullet proof although we did have the in-tank fuel pump go out on us twice (known problem).

 

Your TJ had a lot more articulation so don't get your hopes up too much. OTOH, the YJ is cheap to lift compared to the TJ, IIRC.

 

Now I'm jealous! Well, three kids puts a crimp in our Jeeping ways, but now wit hthe new 4-doors in a couple of years, who knows??

 

Have Fun!

 

JT