Short rider - seat height ???

[G in Cali]

Hi all.

 

I looked at the new RT1200 today and sat on it - standard seat. I had my riding boots on with about a 2" heel.

 

I'm only 5'5" and my feet barely touched the ground. I felt like I was touching the ground on my tip-e-toes.

 

I then sat on an '09 with a "low seat" on it. The balls of my feet were now starting to touch, but no where close to getting my heels down.

 

I talked to the salesman about a bike with the lowered suspension, but he said they shorten the forks/shocks at the factory and it would jar the crap out of you....saying "you don't want that".

 

My current bike (Kawi Vulcan) has only a 26.5" seat heat and I get both feet flat on the ground.

 

I liked the features of the 2010 RT1200, but I just felt totally uncomfortable on it. I don't feel like I would be able to control it when pulling up to a stop light, let alone going 2 up.

 

Any thoughts....love the bike, but I just think it's too tall for me.

 

Do you think I would get use to just putting one foot down when stopping???

 

 

[Selden]

I'm not as short as you, but have dealt with this problem for years. I'm never as confident on a bike where I can't get at least the balls of both feet down. This is going to sound odd, but you might want to take a look at a GS with both low suspension and low seat. I sat on one once, and was amazed to find that I could totally flat foot the bike. Since a GS starts out with a long travel suspension, it doesn't matter as much if the factory shortens suspension travel.

 

A GS is also significantly lighter than an RT, has wider handlebars for more leverage, and will not be as hot during hot weather (you don't indicate where you live, so can't tell if this is an issue or not). If you do your own maintenance, a GS is also easier to work on because there is less body work. If I ever get rid of my 1999 RT, it will probably be for a GS low.

[Hall Vince]

Well I'm 5'6" ish

 

I have used the standard seat in low position (Rt with standard ESA shock) and able to get one foot flat by sliding across a little.

 

I did buy a low seat, but find I prefer it on the higher setting as when in the low setting with low seat, the ergonomics of the seating position is not comfortable for me. I like to be up higher with less knee bend.

So I have the low seat on a high setting (mainly as I had the low seat reworked for comfort)With the ESA set for 1 person + luggage I am on tip toes with both feet. However(see below)

 

The RT is such an easy bike to control at slow speeds and if you use the method of steering slighty to the right just as you stop so the bike tips positivly to the left (and VsV), you are already placing the correct foot down and can accomodate it.

 

Some people wait until the bike tips one way then decide to place the correct foot down. Some do this without realising. You need to be positive in directing the bike to tip the way you intend to place a foot down.

 

My only concerns are on slippery surfaces, gravel etc. where I am very carefull where I stop.

Also note that the ESA varys ride height. Mine will be an inch higher at the back when on 1 person + luggage setting and 1" lower if just set to 1 person. (I'm about 147lbs)

 

Oh and move the bike about on the Righthand side, leave the sidestand down (looking out for obsticles that could flip the stand up)A ny bike I have dropped I've always dropped it away from me whilst pushing it about. So the side stand would some the bike getting away from me.

Since I move the bikes about his way I've not dropped one, (touch wood)

 

hth

\v/

[ElevenFifty]

BMW's all seem to be a little tall for those of us with short inseams. I ride an older RT (04). I spent the big bucks on Hyperpro shortened shock and a Sargeant low saddle. I can now flat foot the bike (I've a 29" inseam).

 

I do a lot of 2-up riding and I have NO COMPLAINTS about the ride. I would suggest that the salesmans suggestion that a lowered suspension 'would jar the crap out of you' is probably just crap - advice more for his benefit than yours. While I can ride a normal height RT, even with a tall saddle, I absolutely love my lowered bike.

[Selden]

Oh and move the bike about on the Righthand side, leave the sidestand down (looking out for obsticles that could flip the stand up)A ny bike I have dropped I've always dropped it away from me whilst pushing it about. So the side stand would some the bike getting away from me.

Since I move the bikes about his way I've not dropped one, (touch wood)

48 years of riding, and I never thought of this -- great tip. Since it's natural to dismount to the left, I've always pushed from the left, and although I've never tipped a bike to the right while pushing it, there have been a few close calls. Walking around to the right (or dismounting on the right) is a little extra effort, but a lot less than picking up a dropped bike.

[Beemer_Nancy]

G,

 

I'm 5'5" and am on my tippy toes on the low frame model. This model has the factory low suspension/low frame/ultralow seat. Your sales guy is wacked....it's the smoothest ride one could want. My first 6 months I put over 13K on the bike, it's a joy to ride.

 

Maybe the guy didn't have any low suspension bikes in the store and wanted to sell you a reg. height? I don't think anyone has complained about a rough ride with the low suspension bikes. My GS also has a factory low suspension.

[Selden]

G,

 

I'm 5'5" and am on my tippy toes on the low frame model. This model has the factory low suspension/low frame/ultralow seat. Your sales guy is wacked....it's the smoothest ride one could want. My first 6 months I put over 13K on the bike, it's a joy to ride.

 

Maybe the guy didn't have any low suspension bikes in the store and wanted to sell you a reg. height? I don't think anyone has complained about a rough ride with the low suspension bikes. My GS also has a factory low suspension.

Do you notice any difference in compliance between the RT and the GS? What is the listed suspension trave (F/R) for the GS low?

[Bob_Minor]

My brother has an R1200RT that was lowered with shortened Wilburs shocks. It clearly is a rougher ride than my Ohlins equipped RT, but he's happy as a clam to have an RT that gives him confidence when he comes to a stop. The biggest concern he had was loss of cornering clearance as he is an aggressive rider and so far that has not been a problem. In fact there are quite a few Porsche and BMW drivers on CA Hwy 1 that would agree.

[Don_Eilenberger]

My brother has an R1200RT that was lowered with shortened Wilburs shocks. It clearly is a rougher ride than my Ohlins equipped RT, but he's happy as a clam to have an RT that gives him confidence when he comes to a stop. The biggest concern he had was loss of cornering clearance as he is an aggressive rider and so far that has not been a problem. In fact there are quite a few Porsche and BMW drivers on CA Hwy 1 that would agree.

The way Wilbers lowers the bike he won't lose cornering clearance. They reduce the suspension travel by the amount the bike is lowered.. so the maximum compression will remain the same as stock compression. I suspect (dunno for sure) this may be needed to get TUV approval in Germany.

 

I worked with Klaus (former Wilbers importer) at Hyperpro to maintain the suspension travel on my lowered R12R for ride comfort reasons. This required some redesign of the Hyperpro shocks. Hyperpro used the same techniques that Wilbers did (and actually BMW does on their lowered suspension) of shortening the travel of the lowered shock (basically restricting it's maximum length) when lowering the bike. With a bit of engineering and some in-place testing (with shocks with no spring on them so we could observe what was happening easily, and make certain no hard bike bits hit each other at full compression), Klaus and I were able to lower my bike ~15-20mm (we were shooting for 0.70") and still maintain the *same* suspension travel stock length shocks would have.

 

The only risk involved in doing this is - you could touch down earlier if you're a very enthusiastic cornerer. I'm not, so it wasn't a major concern for me. The harsher ride of the lowered suspension was more of a concern in pothole/expansion-joint riddled NJ.

 

YMMV and there are always tradeoffs.. as long as you're aware of them ahead of time, you can make an informed decision.

[G in Cali]

A big THANK YOU to all those who replied. Your insight is very helpful and I have great news!:

 

The local dealer is getting in a lowered suspension bike in a couple days and is putting the low seat on it for me to take on a test ride.

 

I surely didn't want to have to pre-order a bike with the lowered suspension and "hope" it worked for me.

 

Anyways, this Friday or Saturday I'll be able to plant myself on the lowered suspension bike with the low seat and see how it works.

I will update afterwards, letting my fellow "vertically challenged" riders know if this option works or not.

[Selden]

My understanding (someone will probably correct me if I'm wrong) is that the factory low bikes involve more than just shorter shocks. The A-arm in front has a different geometry, and the side stand is shorter, to maintain an appropriate lean angle. Don't know about the center stand; if it's standard length, hauling up may require a little more effort.

 

I have a low Bill Mayer seat, and in the lowest seat position, I can flat foot the bike, but the relationship between my hips, knees, and footpegs isn't right. This is something to check with the factory low seat. If it gets your feet to the ground, but the seating position feels too low, one possible solution is after-market low foot pegs. These will further reduce cornering clearance, but probably not enough to matter, unless you are accustomed to grinding foot pegs and other parts.

[Bob_Minor]

 

The original factory lowered RT's only had one seat available. It was a one piece design unlike the mainstream RT's two piece seat (with the front section available in two different heights). Unless this has changed I don't think your dealer is very familiar with the lowered bikes.

[Don_Eilenberger]

My understanding (someone will probably correct me if I'm wrong) is that the factory low bikes involve more than just shorter shocks. The A-arm in front has a different geometry, and the side stand is shorter, to maintain an appropriate lean angle. Don't know about the center stand; if it's standard length, hauling up may require a little more effort.

Can't speak for an RT - but I did a parts # check on the R12R.

 

The centerstands are the same PN.. as is the telelever arm (can't imagine a reason to change it actually..) and the sidestands have the same numbers. From measuring the side and centerstands in the showroom on a BMW lowered R12R vs the standard suspension model, I couldn't measure any difference. According to REALOEM - the only difference is the shocks. Dealers may claim there is more of a difference to discourage people asking to get a bike lowered before buying it (just a WAG..)

 

It does take more effort to get my R12R on the centerstand after lowering it about 3/4".. but not an unreasonable effort, much easier than my lowered K100RT and K75S and even the R1150RS were.

[lvnvbiker]

I played with the low/low RT at my local dealer and it was nice. Flat foot with bent knees for me (31" inseam) and the centerstand was as easy as the regular one so it must be adjusted to work. BMW does get some things right...

[Jon_M]

I will keep my 2005 RT for a few more years, so I plan to check out the new Corbin low seat the next time I go through Hollister.

 

http://www.corbin.com/bmw/bmwr12rt5low.shtml

 

From the pictures and testimonials, it looks like it may be a good (but expensive) solution. With the factory low seat option and lowered pegs that I have now, I still need to be about an inch lower to be really comfortable.

[Dietrich]

Over the last few years I rode RTs of diffferent model years. The height always was a problem (I am 5'7") and eventually got me away from the RT. Through a coincidence I aquired a GS to sell through my store. When I picked it up from the dealer who had it traded in, I realized that it was lowered. I sat on it and I could flat foot it. Never expected that from a GS which is normally much higher. At that moment I decided to keep the bike as my rider. I could have lowered the RT as well but found the cost at the time to be too high. In retrospect I should have done it. It changes the bike totally and increases your enjoyment of the ride. I stuck an Aeroflow windshield with lower fairing on to the GS and I am all smiles riding it. Never had more fun.

[Gnossos]

I have a 2005 RT that I put lowering front and rear Wilburs on. My inseam is 28" -- and I have a Corbin seat on the bike. I can *almost* flatfoot the bike, but not quite. It hasn't been a problem since I made the change.

 

What did become a problem was the length of the sidestand and centerstand. The bike "stood up" too much -- so I swapped out the sidestand for one that someone had shortened. And I had the centerstand cut down, too. Now the bike no longer resembles that line from Dylan's "Leopardskin Pillbox Hat": "It balances on your head just like a mattress balances on a bottle of wine . . ."

 

Good luck!

 

 

[G in Cali]

As promised to let you know what happened, I got to check out the low suspension - low seat 2010 RT1200T today.

 

With the lowered suspension and seat, I was able to flatfoot the bike. With the low seat-suspension option, obviously, there is no longer ESA or heat to the seat. This bike also didn't have a radio package in it - didn't like that.

 

Was now comfortable being able to "hold" the bike with my legs.

 

Didn't have time to demo ride it, as I just wanted to check out the seat height.

 

One thing I did notice was that up and in the riding position, my legs were bent quite a ways, don't know if this would be too comfortable on long rides.

 

Also, there was just a slight pinch in my inner thighs from the width of the seat, with center stand up and holding the bike.

 

Dealer gave me a quick quote, which I thought was WAY over priced.

 

Wanted $21,700 for this bike (with no radio package, factory only warranty, no top hat, no other gear).

 

Going to take it for a demo ride, to see how it shakes out....will update later.

[lvnvbiker]

That does seem high... I can swing thru the dealer here in Vegas and see what they'll do for you on tuesday if youd like. I know the salesmen pretty well and should be able to get you a little break.

[Selden]

One thing I did notice was that up and in the riding position, my legs were bent quite a ways, don't know if this would be too comfortable on long rides.

Assuming that the seat attachment mechanism is unchanged the regular chassis, and that there is still an adjustable height mechanism, you may be able to wrangle a swap to the stock seats, at least for comparison purposes.

 

The other option is lowered foot pegs, which would restore a more normal bend to your legs. With the low seat, you shouldn't need to think about bar risers. Of course, this approach would add still more to the cost, although $165 seems like a pittance relative to a $20,000 purchase.

 

In my case, the lowest seat position with a non-BMW low seat was so uncomfortable that I noticed it within 10 minutes of riding. It's hard to believe that raising the seat just a half inch would make such a difference, but it did.

[G in Cali]

***Update***

 

I forgot to mention in my other post about the windshield on the RT1200T.

 

During my test ride, i played with raising and lowering the windshield, at freeway/highways speeds and found the windshield to be absolute crap.

 

Wind came over the top center area, even with the shield in the highest setting.

 

 

[Motodan]

***Update***

 

I forgot to mention in my other post about the windshield on the RT1200T.

 

During my test ride, i played with raising and lowering the windshield, at freeway/highways speeds and found the windshield to be absolute crap.

 

Wind came over the top center area, even with the shield in the highest setting.

 

 

You may want to reword that...considering the world of physics, unless you ride in a vacuum, air (wind) will always come over the top of the windscreen and around every surface edge. Not sure that makes it crap? If, you are saying it hits you where you don't want the wind, than you need a taller shield or a shorter trunk...your trunk. However, remember, even if the shield is a mile high, wind will still flow around it.

 

Mr. Wizard

 

 

[RT-Mike]

***Update***

 

I forgot to mention in my other post about the windshield on the RT1200T.

 

During my test ride, i played with raising and lowering the windshield, at freeway/highways speeds and found the windshield to be absolute crap.

 

Wind came over the top center area, even with the shield in the highest setting.

 

 

I don't know if it's "absolute" crap,but it's pretty close.

 

There are several aftermarket shields offered,try to do a search,and you will find plenty of options.

 

I'm a little surprised that with your seating position,the stock shield is not protecting better than what it is.

 

Cheers,Mike