Outrageous Recycling requirement

[Shaman97]

Need to let off a little steam.

 

Today, I went to the local Recycle Center in order to recycle the cans and bottles that have accumulated in my garage. It serves a few purposes - the cans/bottles get recycled, the garage gets cleaner, and I have a (very) few bucks put into my pocket. Mostly, I feel it helps the environment to some degree, if nothing more than removing some trash from the highways. Here in California, we call it CRV (Cash Refund Value). It's not a true 'deposit' in the sense that the amount of the CRV is considered an integral part of the product. Therefore the value of the CRV itself is taxable - wonderful!

 

Imagine my surprise when I got to the recycle center, and the attendant wanted to see my California Drivers License. Not only that, he wanted to scan the front of it into a database. Got a card reader, software and a laptop all right there in the 6x8 shack. What a country! My name, address, photgraphic image, and DL# would be put into a database - for what reason neither he or I could determine. All this since Feb 4, 2010 I was told. 'Official' memo on the shack's door proclaimed it to be so.

 

I actually took a token step in trying to keep some of the information private from whatever the database would store. I covered the DL# with tape from my car before he scanned it.

 

No luck - since the scanner could not read the DL#, the program would not accept the DL as identification. I couldn't receive the refund.

 

I told him to keep the material, and left. I then wrote an email to the Disposal Company, and to three of the County's Board of Supervisors informing them of my indignation, and how this will likely lead to mass tossing of cans and bottles along the highways. Oh, the humanity!!

 

Here's a kicker - the attendant said that it had to be a California license (no out-of staters) and the vehicle you drive in with has to be registered in Cali. No walk-up or bicycle windows here. All you Nevada and Oregon folks, forget making your millions on the California recycling boom. At least in El Dorado County.

 

Now, I know that almost any and everything anyone may want to know about me is available somewhere, but really...the Recycling Center? WTF?

Over.

[10ovr]

So I guess if you are a homeless guy or girl picking cans up to try to get by ,Your screwed,,Only In Calif

[pbharvey]

...you better claim that refund money on your income tax

[Skywagon]

We use to live in N. Cal. We dutifully placed our aluminum recycle in the green bins every week. On one of my redeye flights I got in about 4am. There was a gentlemen in a car going through the neighborhood pulling out the aluminum and leaving just the paper recycle. Over time I noticed this was happening every time.

 

Long story short, they got caught and prosecuted for stealing from the city. Apparently the city uses home recycling for funding.

[Shaman97]

...you better claim that refund money on your income tax

 

...or now claim a capital loss...

 

[11101110]

they want your personal information because they are worried about copper thieves.

[ghaverkamp]

The new regs are here. I'd guess your recycling person didn't read them or simply wanted an easy implementation of them.

[Shaman97]

I'm really hoping that the local disposal agency was mistaken in the reading of the regulations, and that my letter writing tirade has some effect.

 

It's become so routine that businesses ask for (and get) information that has nothing to do with the transaction at hand, from people they are doing business with.

 

I don't mind showing my DL to confirm my identity when I use my credit card, but I've had clerks ask for ID when using a debit card - isn't that what a PIN is used for?

[russell_bynum]

So I guess if you are a homeless guy or girl picking cans up to try to get by ,Your screwed,,Only In Calif

 

Yup. We have to put up with stupid crap like this, but on the upside, California has a huge budget surplus, the best schools in the nation, and the lowest crime rate in the nation.

[Francois_Dumas]

CRV 'Terminator'

[skinny_tom (aka boney)]

Well let me see. People are cutting Catalytic converters out of the exhaust systems of pick-up trucks to (sell them) recycle the platinum. Thieves are breaking into constructions sites and stealing all the copper pipe (even the installed stuff) and selling it to the recyclers. Large coils of wire and cable, no problem, steal it, burn off the insulation, recycle (sell) it.

 

There's a huge market in stolen recyclables and somehow cans and bottles got confused with the rest of it.

[KDeline]

You can thank the theives and most of the less then honest recycling plants for that. What else could they do to stop the stealling? In Lakeland Florida about 3 weeks ago, 4 large air conditioner units were destroyed. The copper tubing was pulled out for the pennys they can get at a recycling plant and the repair of the units is going to be about $15000.00. They have changed some of the building codes, using PVC(?) pipe because if they leave the constuction site, the copper gets ripped out over night.

[upflying]

Funny, I never have trouble with recycling when I show up with my shopping cart, beard, scruffy clothing and cardboard freeway exit sign.

 

Seriously though the DL requirement is strange since few driver's in California actually possess a driver's license.

 

Not allowing walk-up customers sounds like a discrimination suit waiting to happen.

 

BTW, my every other month garage bill is about $70. That includes 3 bins, one for garbage, one for cans and bottles and one for green wast. It is so expensive that black market garbage pickup service is available. They drive around neighborhoods with their pickup trucks and offer to pickup your garbage for cheap so you can discontinue regular service. You can see them bringing in household garbage at the local "transfer station". Each pickup load is $20 to dump. If they have 10 garbage customers in their bed...they make money.

[4wheeldog]

"(7) Additional information identifying the person selling or donating the material. The

additional information shall be either: the person's valid driver license number and state of issuance

or vehicle license number and state of issuance. If neither identifying item is available, a California

Identification Card number may be substituted. In the absence of any of these items of

identification, a statement shall be required explaining why the additional information could not be

obtained."

 

 

This is the actual requirement. Your recycler of choice is exceding their authority......Why is up to question.

[Antimatter]

they want your personal information because they are worried about copper thieves.

 

+1. My guess is there's been enough theft of copper wiring and piping that the local government decided to do something.

[upflying]

they want your personal information because they are worried about copper thieves.

 

+1. My guess is there's been enough theft of copper wiring and piping that the local government decided to do something.

 

+2 and to share the recycling information to the State of California Franchise Tax Board. No doubt many people are making on living on recycling and not paying state income taxes.

[russell_bynum]

they want your personal information because they are worried about copper thieves.

 

+1. My guess is there's been enough theft of copper wiring and piping that the local government decided to do something.

 

For that to be true, there would need to be a program in place to trace stolen recyclables through the recycling center to the person who brought the stuff in to be recycled.

 

Anyone care to place any bets about the existence of such a program?

 

[Harry_Wilshusen]

HMMMM

 

It seems you need more identification in CA to recycle your trash than you need to send it to Washington DC

 

Harry

[tallman]

I'm really hoping that the local disposal agency was mistaken in the reading of the regulations, and that my letter writing tirade has some effect.

 

It's become so routine that businesses ask for (and get) information that has nothing to do with the transaction at hand, from people they are doing business with.

 

I don't mind showing my DL to confirm my identity when I use my credit card, but I've had clerks ask for ID when using a debit card - isn't that what a PIN is used for?

 

 

FWIW, I thought most credit card agreements w/retailers precluded them from asking for ID?

Rtailers, not all, but many, seem to do that, but I thought I had read somewhere it wasn't allowed.

[notacop]

Worry, worry, worry, Can't you just pay your taxes and bide by the rules and not complain? The poor fellow taking your cans and personal info is just doing his job like the wise folks that protect us at airports looking at our x-rayed scans.

They, the MAN, is only checking to see if you are of proper age to be drinking all that beer that accounts for your cans. If properly implemented, this information will notify the AA and your health provider of your alcoholic tendencies and you will be taken care of in a expedient manner.

[lvnvbiker]

Hell they are making sure that I don't bring my cans from NV and drop them for cash. Seriously! They busted a few recycle semi trucks in Baker that took cans from Vegas(no crv) and collected the dime a can from CA. Not a big deal on a trash can full, but a semi load is some serious change that is stolen from CA's tax base...

[steve404]

"Anyone care to place any bets about the existence of such a program?"

 

In Monterey county, the sheriff's dept at least has an active task force brought about by mostly agriculture interests. Thieves pull out well pumps for the copper and brass, steal irrigation pipe for the aluminum.... Occasionally busts are reported in the paper including a recent hefty fine a large "reputable" recycle firm for letting stolen materials get in.

At times, the CRV is higher than the metal is worth on the metal market, so they want to ensure that cans are from California.

 

[russell_bynum]

"Anyone care to place any bets about the existence of such a program?"

 

In Monterey county, the sheriff's dept at least has an active task force brought about by mostly agriculture interests. Thieves pull out well pumps for the copper and brass, steal irrigation pipe for the aluminum.... Occasionally busts are reported in the paper including a recent hefty fine a large "reputable" recycle firm for letting stolen materials get in.

 

Say I bring in some copper pipe because I've been remodeling my house and ripped out some old stuff. They don't know if I stole it from my neighbor or if it's mine unless it's been reported stolen, AND they know that it was reported stolen, AND they have some way to identify the stolen pipe vs legit stuff.

 

Once I turn in the stuff and give them my personal info, do they do anything to tag the stuff I brought in so they know that it was mine? i.e. Say I bring in a load of stolen stuff. They take all my info, take the stuff, and give me my money because they don't know that the stuff was stolen. The next day the stuff is reported stolen. Is the stuff that I brought in tagged so that LEO's can trace it back to me?

 

 

[tallman]

Russell,

Chances are you'd not be returning w/multilple metal recycling for copper tubing, etc.

Thieves would be more likely to.

In the construction industry it is a big problem, more in some places than in others, but new housing and unoccupied homes are targets.

I know of 3 families and 5 individuals, including parent and chile (one mama and one pater) where they were arrested.

It isn't so much, at least inb theses cases, the id'ing of what you brought to recycle, it would be the finding you in posession at another time w/out any proof that you were the legit recycler.

[russell_bynum]

Russell,

Chances are you'd not be returning w/multilple metal recycling for copper tubing, etc.

Thieves would be more likely to.

In the construction industry it is a big problem, more in some places than in others, but new housing and unoccupied homes are targets.

I know of 3 families and 5 individuals, including parent and chile (one mama and one pater) where they were arrested.

It isn't so much, at least inb theses cases, the id'ing of what you brought to recycle, it would be the finding you in posession at another time w/out any proof that you were the legit recycler.

 

I know it's a problem...we've had friends who bought a house that needed extensive work replacing copper pipe that had been ripped out while the place sat vacant.

 

I'm just not understanding how this ID thing is going to help with that.

 

So you catch me today with some stolen recyclables...so what? That doesn't prove that the last three times I brought stuff in wasn't legit.

[upflying]

The recycling business sounds like they are taking a page out the pawn shop laws. Pawn shops know they buy stolen stuff. Each time they accept merchandise, the seller gets identified and a report is filled out. The report goes to the local PD where the merchandise is compared with theft reports. They can also do a background check on the seller and see if he is wanted or on parole. Multiple pawns raises suspicion. Same protection is happening at recyclers I reckon.

[tallman]

It doesn't prove that, but it may raise flags that would require you to meet a certain burden of proof.

It may also lead to linkig you w/a previous crime, that happens all the time, esp. if one of the varmits makes a deal.

 

I catch you today and you pay for today.

Then perhaps someone finds out about yesterday, and you pay again, just in a different way.

 

In some cases it is enough of a deterrent to prevent future crimes, but you never know.

 

I know a family that has had multiple relatives arrested for attempted ATM theft.

Put a chain on it and drove down the road.

[Shaman97]

I can somewhat see it for bulk materials like copper, aluminum, and the like. But these were clearly cans and bottles worth, at most, $5. Now if I came in with a truckload of copper, that may - and should - raise some eyebrows.

 

All the stuff was marked as California Cash Value, so the $$ was already in the system - I'm trying to get it back.

 

What's next? Attribute the CRV to me as income and tax me on it - even after I paid for it initially? Oh, wait...and don't bet against it.

[steve.foote]

Same protection is happening at recyclers I reckon.

 

That's how the recycler next to our office works. They require a picture ID, which they scan and attach to the paperwork. They also videotape the transaction. Copper theft/recycling was a big problem a year or so ago and some of the rules were changed to combat the theft.

[Shaman97]

Update...

 

Apparently the letter writing did some good. The IT person at the Disposal Company researched the regulation with the State recycling folks.

Seems the regulation was to apply to non-cans and bottles places, and the dollar value has to be over $100.

 

He's having the scanners and laptops removed from the redemption centers as of today.

 

The landscape is safe once again.

 

[steve404]

Thank-you for fighting for freedom the Nanny-Staters.

[Husker Red]

Nice work!

[tallman]

Update...

 

Apparently the letter writing did some good. The IT person at the Disposal Company researched the regulation with the State recycling folks.

Seems the regulation was to apply to non-cans and bottles places, and the dollar value has to be over $100.

 

He's having the scanners and laptops removed from the redemption centers as of today.

 

The landscape is safe once again.

 

 

 

So, it's OK for those recyclers to have this outrageous requirement?

Isn't that just NIMBY at work?

Not being personal, just wondering why the $100 figure justifies the outrageous requirement.

Best wishes.

[Bob Palin]

So, it's OK for those recyclers to have this outrageous requirement?

Isn't that just NIMBY at work?

Not being personal, just wondering why the $100 figure justifies the outrageous requirement.

Best wishes.

The intention of the law was to catch illegal "industrial" recycling not harass people recycling their household waste.

[motoguy128]

You can thank the theives and most of the less then honest recycling plants for that. What else could they do to stop the stealling? In Lakeland Florida about 3 weeks ago, 4 large air conditioner units were destroyed. The copper tubing was pulled out for the pennys they can get at a recycling plant and the repair of the units is going to be about $15000.00. They have changed some of the building codes, using PVC(?) pipe because if they leave the constuction site, the copper gets ripped out over night.

 

When we built our new coal fire boiler, we had to post security guards before the foundation was poured. The grounding grid for the structure has tens of thousand of dollars in copper...and more improtantly took over a week to install and would take 6-8 weeks ot order realcement material, killing the project schedule.

 

One person locally was killed when trying to remove a bus bar from a live switch at an abandoned industrial building. Too bad it was only 480Volts.. if it was 13200 or 64,000.... he might have been mostly vaporized and could have saved his family a lot of money in funeral expenses. We had a rat vaporized on a 13200 transformer a few years back. It took the whole factory down.

[tallman]

So, it's OK for those recyclers to have this outrageous requirement?

Isn't that just NIMBY at work?

Not being personal, just wondering why the $100 figure justifies the outrageous requirement.

Best wishes.

The intention of the law was to catch illegal "industrial" recycling not harass people recycling their household waste.

 

harass

"annoy continually or chronically"

I don't see this as continual or chronically.

Again, not personal, just wondering how this changes much WRT OP.

I've frequently seen non-industrial recycling efforts that were above $100 threshold.

 

I would assume that the policy had been in place and affecting numerous individuals.

If the response to one complaint resulted in a change I would infer that no one else had complained, or the policy would've been investigated and changed prior to the visit in question.

Ergo, this policy wasn't perceived as outrageouos, intrusive, or harassment by others.

My point is that perception isn't always reality, or is it?

Best wishes.

[4wheeldog]

Maybe the removal of the requirement was driven by economic considerations.......If there is another facility nearby that was not making the same requirement, business might have shifted.

[Shaman97]

The mistake was that the local redemption center (cans and bottles) should not have received the scanners in the first place. If you were to bring large amounts of copper into this place, he wouldn't know what to do with it; he hasn't got a Conex box for that stuff.

There is a large industrial recycling facility nearby (privately owned) that does the large scale stuff. When my son brought in his old aluminum wheels, they asked for the ID.

[tallman]

Ah, now the clearer becomes a picture.

Fleet rucks wouldn't bring their used oil to Peb boyz to recycle.

Your OP gave me the impression that this was a real recycling center not a deposit return center.

Best wishes.

[Shaman97]

Bob

 

confuse issue Did not mean to the . are You right; clearer I should have been .

 

 

Hey Tim,