2005 R12RT vs @2010 R12RT

[nbooth]

So, I'm thinking about moving from a 05RT to a 10RT. The internal seals on the 05 were leaking badly and have been replaced...the final drive reliability makes me a bit nervous since I ride in remote areas...I can hardly read the instrument display because the glare's so bad (particularly in the sunny south) and I could go. So, is the 2010 model a "real" improvement, or are we just at the beginning of a new "model" year which will have its own problems/issues yet undiscovered. Oh yes, I also have a Rick Mayer seat. Will this move to a 2010 model or is the seating different?

 

[DMilan]

I've got an '05 as well.

Thinking the same thought.

Probably won't. My business is well, not good...

Anyway

Saw a '10 yesterday in the flesh for the first time.

The seat will fit.

The front grill looks better.

The screen is only slightly different and has a new crossbrace beneath it.

New risers and, of course the new controls and fluid jugs. I guess they're ok.

New handlebars that mount into the risers seem to be rubber mounted. Perhaps a difference in vibration at the grips???? Who knows though, maybe more vibey.

The sales manager, whom I'm well aquainted with fired up the '10. Said he thought it seemed more refined and reved easier. From my brief experience in the showroom, I'd agree. Definately less ticky than mine.

Overall, I'd say the new front body panels look a bit nicer than my '05. More integrated.

Fuel tank and mileage must be nearly identicle. The main/large side panels and tank rack haven't changed a bit.

 

Good luck

my .02

Dmilan

[AZRTRDR]

I have ridden the 10 for about 75 miles.

It is nice but not a major upgrade. If you are looking at replacing your 05 anyway then I say go for it but to me the changes are not worth the money but then my RT is an 09.

This is my 6th R12RT and it only has 3k miles on it.

The biggest complaint that I have is the readability of the LCD display which has not been improved upon.

The GS/GSA display is great so why not the RT's?

[Exploreinman]

Obviously, your personal disposable income has a lot to say about whether to purchase a 2010 or not. While the 2010 does seem to have some nice improvements to it, IMO it doesn't appear to be a major upgrade as between the '04 and '05 models.

[Burt]

I think the new valve adjustment method would be enough to make me want to avoid the 2010 model unless I needed to replace my bike for some reason. It isn't that it is difficult, just more involved and a PITA. Once you figure out which shim you need for each valve, you have to go to the dealership to buy them, then return home to install them. For someone who lives quite a distance from their dealer it could be an all day project.

[Dick_at_Lake_Tahoe_NV]

From my standpoint of doing a lot of my own wrenching this move to using shims is going backward about 30-years. Why in the world would BMW take a simple adjustment concept and make it so complicated as to go to using shims?

[BMWED]

So you would have to go to the dealer to service it.

[blueviewlaguna]

A few thoughts on the new engine:

 

The output differences between the 09' and 10' engines is 0 hp (both 110hp) and 3 ft-lb torque (85 vs 88). The 10' engine's hp is now at 7750 rpm, whereas the 09's hp is at 7500 rpm, making the 09's (same) maximum hp arrive sooner - the same power earlier is always more desirable. A 3 ft-lb torque difference (3.5%) could easily be offset by fuel quality, bike to bike variations, etc - for example the 09' R1200RT is 625 wet, with 76 ft-lbs of torque to the rear wheel. With a 200 lb rider - all-up weight = 825 lb, for 10.85 lbs of weight per ft-lb of torque. An additional 32 lbs of weight (3*10.85) would offset for example.

 

My main issue is that the new DOHC engine is clearly a 133 hp unit (from the HP2) detuned to the SOHC's output of 110 hp, in other words the additional moving part overhead from a higher output motor is lost from the detuning and you are left with simply more moving parts, a new design and greater complexity with marginal improvements in drivability (which was not an issue with the 09' engine).

 

I suspect that the DOHC has more hp and torque potential than the SOHC engine had BMW allowed it, but the 10' configuration is to de-bug the DOHC in volume production (not limited like the HP2), therefore the de-tuning.

 

Look for higher (120+) hp R1200RT's in 2011 and onward as BMW feels more comfortable about the reliability of the changes. If someone is thinking of changing to the 10' for the DOHC, I would suggest holding off until this engine configuration is "all-in" and up to its potential.

[Don_Eilenberger]

My main issue is that the new DOHC engine is clearly a 133 hp unit (from the HP2) detuned to the SOHC's output of 110 hp, in other words the additional moving part overhead from a higher output motor is lost from the detuning and you are left with simply more moving parts, a new design and greater complexity with marginal improvements in drivability (which was not an issue with the 09' engine).

 

I suspect that the DOHC has more hp and torque potential than the SOHC engine had BMW allowed it, but the 10' configuration is to de-bug the DOHC in volume production (not limited like the HP2), therefore the de-tuning.

 

Look for higher (120+) hp R1200RT's in 2011 and onward as BMW feels more comfortable about the reliability of the changes. If someone is thinking of changing to the 10' for the DOHC, I would suggest holding off until this engine configuration is "all-in" and up to its potential.

I'd have to disagree on "more moving parts" - if you look at the entire valve train, the part count is equal as far as I can see. You do have a shim and two finger-followers that weren't present in the old design, but you've lost the short pushrod and the cam-follower (aka "valve lifter") for each set of valves on the old engine. I think the parts count is likely equal.

 

What you do get - and I base this on a *very* similar valve setup on the BMW S54 series car engines - is a much longer interval between valve adjustments. On the S54 engine - valve adjustments are called for every "Inspection" service - which averages 30-35,000 mile intervals (depending on how hard the car is driven.) And once the valves get an initial adjustment, the actual changes are fairly rare - sort of like K-brick valves. Lightness in a valve train is not only desireable for higher-redline (and engine output) but also for lessening wear. I think this will be the primary benefit of the new design.

 

It's certainly possible BMW will start tuning the engine for more HP in the future, but some euro HP restrictions (voluntary or mandated) *may* restrict this.

 

I wouldn't worry about the '10 bikes being made to "de-bug" the design. The design is similar enough to the S54 design (which has been remarkably trouble-free and is now 10 years old) that I think all the debugging has already been done. I can't recall hearing of any HP2 engine failures.. which considering they are a performance engine is a very good sign.

[imeyers]

I just dont see it. Granted the 05 has a few less goodies than a 2010 model but it is the same bike. I could see if they came out with an R1250RT with 125+hp or something but all they did was freshen up a few things. The money to go from an 05 to a 2010 model is not even close to being worth it. Its like paying $10,000 for a new dashboard, 3 ft. lbs. of torque and a few other minor things. Me I will keep my 05 and use the $10,000 to add another bike to the stable before I go and but the same bike again. But like I said if they come out with a R1250RT then the game changes but for now it is the same bike with a few fancy upgrades.

[blueviewlaguna]

Any production change, large or small requires a de-bug unless this engine is identical to a previous one with the identical software. Similar designs help, but all changes must be verified, hence the de-bug.

 

With a chain that is over 40% longer, I see 132 more moving parts in the form of 22 more chain links (6 parts per link) alone - longer chains tend to require more of the entire lash/slap/tension control system since they stretch more.

 

I wish BMW had given us a reason to go to the DOHC for 10', I would have loved to have seen more power out of our boxer.

 

 

[lvnvbiker]

If one had a decent surface grinder they could trim a shim some I would bet, then the dealer trips would be farther out. As valves wear they seat deeper so removing a small bit of material would do the trick. Now this is based on doing some tune ups on high end cars and some diesels with proper tools so don't quote me. Once I get a look at the semi-sphere shim I could be more sure, but I wont be buying a new bike for some time as mine is barely broke in at 50000 miles. That is unless I hit the lotto and get a 1000rr and one of the hopped up boxer s models... Oh to dream...

[Tech1]

As an engineering tech, I believe the new design is better and easier to adjust correctly. I too understand the need for shims, but I would bet the adjustments are usually in a very small range. I am considering an 2010 precisely because of the new design and I would prefer to move from my 05 to get away from the servo brakes. Then again, I may wait one more year to see if there are any other subtle improvements to the new cylinder head design.

[jakfrost]

"Me I will keep my 05 and use the $10,000 to add another bike to the stable before I go and but the same bike again. But like I said if they come out with a R1250RT then the game changes but for now it is the same bike with a few fancy upgrades."

 

I agree totally! Went thru the same analysis myself recently and decided to buy another bike for the garage instead of a newer RT. Bought a 2000 FLHPI which basically an ex Police Road King with fuel injection. $9,000.00 and it runs and looks great. It is a completely different ride from the RT, the windshield is a quick removal type and for just 'lopping' along the back roads it is a hoot!

 

The 'significant other' really gets off on the 'throb' in the rear seat for some reason...all I know is it puts a smile on her face and that is always a good thing!!:-).

 

Picture here:http://gallery.me.com/jkwinchester1#100374&bgcolor=black&view=grid

 

Jim

[Ken H.]

This is my 6th R12RT

What are you doingto those things???

[tallman]

Some people ride them, Ken.

Have a friend who had 4 K1200 S bikes and now has 2 K1300 S bikes and the new 1000 RR.

He only started riding 6 years ago or he'd really be into it.

[Don_Eilenberger]

If one had a decent surface grinder they could trim a shim some I would bet, then the dealer trips would be farther out. As valves wear they seat deeper so removing a small bit of material would do the trick.

The shims are hardened. Grinding the surface will remove the hardening and they will change dimension rather quickly. Not a good idea (on bikes or cars..)