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Why can't I plug heated gear into the accessory socket on my 2010?


KenK

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I have a 2010 RT and was told by my dealer that I can't plug my heated gear into the accessory socket. They said I had to use pig tails off of the battery for now and when I bring the bike in for the 600 mile service, they will then wire up a socket for me.

 

Two questions:

1) Why is this?

2) If I put the pig tails on to the battery myself, are there any do's or don't in terms of disconnecting the battery.

 

Thanks,

Ken

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The accessory socket does not have the current carrying capacity for a bunch of heated gear. They can add a second socket and run it directly to the battery (fused) and it will work fine. You can use the Gerbing pictail connector to the battery which is fused and that is generally what most of us use.

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One term/word.

 

CANBUS

 

Won't allow that much to be drawn out of the system. There are many work arounds. I think you can even use the outlet and "bypass" the CANBUS. Others include getting a new power outlet and running it straight off the battery.(prolly the most straight forward.)

 

Easy to solve. Don't let it get to ya.

 

Or you can do what the dealer is gonna do all by yourself in very little time.

 

Good Luck

 

 

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Some might even suggest wiring an aux fuse block directly to the battery and then consumating the wiring for all accessories to that.

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One term/word.

 

CANBUS

 

Won't allow that much to be drawn out of the system. There are many work arounds. I think you can even use the outlet and "bypass" the CANBUS. Others include getting a new power outlet and running it straight off the battery.(prolly the most straight forward.)

 

Easy to solve. Don't let it get to ya.

 

Or you can do what the dealer is gonna do all by yourself in very little time.

 

Good Luck

 

 

Whip, the CanBus is just the protocol that the bike’s modules & computers use to talk to each other it has nothing to do with the power outlets power rating..

 

The power outlet power rating is controlled by the overload protection circuit built into in the ZFE module as there are no fuses in the power outlet circuits.. (the power outlets are directly wired to the ZFE,, no CanBus involved)

 

Now if there was an outlet waning light on the dash that came on when the ZFE opened an outlet protection circuit that warning light input would travel from the ZFE module to the dash computer by CanBus connection..

 

Blaming the CanBus for an outlet power problem is like blaming your home telephone line for a furnace failure.. You can call someone on the telephone line (CanBus) & tell them your furnace failed but the line had no connection to the failure..

 

Twisty

 

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I have an 09 and have plugged in my Widder vest into the accessory socket with no problems. The vest alone is probably not enough draw to cause a problem?

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One term/word.

 

CANBUS

 

Won't allow that much to be drawn out of the system. There are many work arounds. I think you can even use the outlet and "bypass" the CANBUS. Others include getting a new power outlet and running it straight off the battery.(prolly the most straight forward.)

 

Easy to solve. Don't let it get to ya.

 

Or you can do what the dealer is gonna do all by yourself in very little time.

 

Good Luck

 

 

Whip, the CanBus is just the protocol that the bike’s modules & computers use to talk to each other it has nothing to do with the power outlets power rating..

 

The power outlet power rating is controlled by the overload protection circuit built into in the ZFE module as there are no fuses in the power outlet circuits.. (the power outlets are directly wired to the ZFE,, no CanBus involved)

 

Now if there was an outlet waning light on the dash that came on when the ZFE opened an outlet protection circuit that warning light input would travel from the ZFE module to the dash computer by CanBus connection..

 

Blaming the CanBus for an outlet power problem is like blaming your home telephone line for a furnace failure.. You can call someone on the telephone line (CanBus) & tell them your furnace failed but the line had no connection to the failure..

 

Twisty

 

I ain't gonna argue with the man. I was told that by the BMW tech (and Richard) when I bought my 2005 RT and it has been repeated on this board and many others.

 

My apologies.

 

I should know better than to get involved in technical questions, I am usually asking em.

 

:grin:

 

 

BTW....my solutions to the problem were accurate.

 

:D

 

edit:

 

I just Googled this stuff, and you are prolly technically right, but the world is blaming Mr CanBus for the problem.

 

 

For example. or here.

 

 

 

No biggy either way...

 

 

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Twisty1 has correctly identified the problem as one based on the current limit programmed into the ZFE. We all conveniently throw such impediments under the CANbus umbrella.

 

Basically, your bike's accessory ports are limited to 5A. Anything less than that and you're fine. This is why vests work. Widder, Gerbing and other vests usually draw in the 4A - 4.5A range. Gloves, alone, (which usually draw around 3.8A) will also work. But plug in a Jacket Liner (about 7A) and the bike's computer will shut down that circuit in order to protect it, since there are no fuses on the 05> RT's.

 

The easiest solution is to use the battery-direct pigtail that came with your heated gear. Connect it to the battery. Find the pigtail's fuse holder and put in the correct fuse for the sum of the load your gear will demand. Let the lead hang out from under the left side of the seat and you're done.

 

However, if you insist on using the BMW accessory port, Powerlet sells a fused harness (in different lengths, so be sure to choose the right one for your bike), that goes directly from the battery to the port and plugs into the back of it. You unplug the factory wire that goes into the back of the accessory port. Since an empty port is read as an open connection by the bike's computer, unplugging the wire won't change a thing. It's still an open connection. Now connect the Powerlet harness from your battery to the open backside plug of the accessory port, and you've got a port capable of, if memory serves, handling about 15A.

 

I don't recall exactly, but the Powerlet harness runs about $40 or $50. It's something you can install yourself if you're at all machanically inclined and if you know how to remove the tupperware to the point where you can access the back side of the accessory port. If not, you'll have to speak to your dealer about how much they'll charge to do the work for you.

 

 

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It really depends on what heated gear you plan on using and how much juice it draws. Like someone else said, I too can plug my Widder heated vest into the front accessory socket with no difficulty whatsoever. If you've got a Gerbing jacket liner, or additional items, the draw would likely be too high and the ZFE module would shut down the accessory socket. As others have said, many people wire their accessory socket directly to the battery to avoid the circuit overload situation.

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Whip, nothing against your solution as that is valid it’s just the CanBus thing as lately the CanBus is getting blamed for everything from flat tires to smelly exhaust..

 

CAN stands for “Controller Area Network” & the BUS part is the part that hooks it all together (usually a twisted pair of wires) ..

 

On the BMW motorcycle the onboard computers & controllers all talk to each other through a single wire (actually 2 wires but it is called single wire) connection..

 

For instance: lets look at the vehicle speed signal.. It enters the system at either the ZFE module (some bikes) or the ABS controller (some bikes),, the ZFE (or ABS controller) encodes the signal & places it on the CAN.. That means that ALL the modules & controllers on the CAN network have access to the speed signal..

The BMS-K needs the speed signal so it uses it,, the cruise control uses the speed signal so it access it from the CAN network,, the ABS brakes use the speed signal so it also accesses it from the CAN,, the dash computer also uses it so accesses it from the CAN network,, & so on..

 

 

Twisty

 

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EffBee, the ZFE protection isn’t 5 amps on all bikes.. There was a change in some of the later RT’s to 10 amp shutdown.. For instance my 09 RT has a 10 amp circuits to the accessory plugs..

 

I’m not sure when the change was made or even the bikes that have the change (I rode an 08 R not an RT) bike last year & it shut down with my heated jacket..

 

Twisty

 

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Gordon, I really don’t know for sure but doubt it,, if like automobile systems the circuit current control is hardware controlled like an SCR or something similar..

 

There is also the outlet current capacity itself.. I think the newer ZFE controlled outlets are only rated at 10 amps max.. The older ones from years past (pre ZFE control) used the larger terminal 20 amp outlets..

 

When I wired my 09 outlets to battery direct I also installed the older higher amp capacity outlets..

 

 

Twisty

 

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At least some dealers deliver all new bikes with two accessory power outlets. They wire the rear one to the "normal" place in the system and the front one---installed in the left front fairing panel on the RT---directly to the battery to avoid the BMW CANBUS system entirely to allow charging the battery by plugging the BMW "black box" charger, or other similar charger/conditioner, and leaving it during storage to allow the battery to remain charged. This leaves that outlet powered at all times. When riding, I plug my heated jacket liner into this port and understand that I could add pants, gloves and socks without adverse impact from the brand of heated clothing I use.

 

(CAVEAT: Anyone attaching high-draw electrical devices such as heated clothing to any vehicle's electrical system should make sure the system will carry the load the item(s) will place on it before plugging in. And, don't rely on anything I might say since I'd be sad if my ignorance were to be the cause of anyone's electrical harness burning up. A new one on an 05-09 RT costs about $2K, plus labor to replace.)

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CAN stands for “Controller Area Network”

 

CAN stands for "Can't Add Nothing"

 

Twisty may be correct about the problem is with the ZFE Module. However, there wouldn't likely be a ZFE module if there wasn't a CANbus to support it. I think it's splitting hairs whether you blame the "CANbus" or the ZFE. Some people consider the ZFE as part of the CANbus system. Hence, blame the CANbus.

 

Also, I was told by Powerlet at a demonstration at the MOA rally, that the Amp limit on the OEM sockets is less than the Powerlet sockets. If you open the flipper cover and see a metal ring, then it should carry the higher amperage. If you see just black plastic, then it isn't. I don't know if he was blowing smoke or this is real.

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Al, the CanBus has no effect on adding or not being able to add things.. The accessory socket power issue is due to no fuses on the bike so the chassis module takes over that function.. Should BMW have used a simple battery direct accessory socket? Maybe so but that sure isn’t a CanBus issue,, it is a poor engineering decision.. (Again,, the CanBus doesn’t control those power outlets)

 

Not being able to easily add rear auxiliary brake lights is not a CanBus issue it is due to pulse width controlled rear lighting.. (this ISN’T a CanBus issue,, it is an engineering decision to power the brake & tail lights with pulse width control)..

 

Body,, chassis,, & engine control modules have talked to each other for years,, the thing that a Controller Area Network (CAN) does is allow that to happen with a simple pair of wires rather than large heavy wire harness..

 

With all the functions,, accessories,, emission concerns,, & engine controls on modern motorcycles you can have relays mounted all over the place with garden hose sized wire harnesses between them or have the controlling in neat little electronic modules with a simple twisted pair of wires between them..

 

Modern cars & trucks have been using CAN systems for years now & you don’t hear people complaining about not being able to add things..

 

People have complained about the BMW weight so BMW listened & reduced weight by eliminating wires,, relays & fuse box.. It was also a cost reduction as well as making assembly easier & cheaper..

 

I guess we could all still be using old technology phones tied to a wire going into the wall or use modern “Area Network” cell phones or wireless phones..

 

When someone blames the CanBus system they are blaming the messenger not the real cause of the issue.. This goes way back to medieval times (blaming the messenger)..

 

Twisty

 

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I regularly run my heated jacket liner off the left front outlet with no problems. It's a full jacket with the heated vest and sleeves.

 

However, when I have to plug the pants liner in, it goes to a separate line, off the battery with an inline fuse.

 

AD (2006 R12RT)

 

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Gadget Magnet

I believe the accessory socket is rated at only 5 amps, exceed it and the ZFE will shut it down.

 

BUT, if you buy a BMW branded heated vest, with its electronic "thermostat", it will work :-)

 

I run an SAE line from the battery with an inline 15amp fuse.

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I believe the accessory socket is rated at only 5 amps, exceed it and the ZFE will shut it down.

 

BUT, if you buy a BMW branded heated vest, with its electronic "thermostat", it will work :-)

 

I run an SAE line from the battery with an inline 15amp fuse.

 

Gadget Magnet, actually the later 1200RT’s are rated at 10 amps (that IS on page 148 of the owners manual).. My 09 RT has 10 amp accessory sockets.. Some of the early the early bikes non RT’s seemed to be 5 amp rating of the onboard socket..

 

Twisty

 

 

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Al, the CanBus has no effect on adding or not being able to add things..

 

Twisty, I understand the CANbus and what you are saying is completely correct. But many BMW mechanics I know use the term CANbus, correctly or incorrectly, to describe the network and the control modules attached to it. It is a step forward in sophistication of the motorcycle, but a step backwards for owners being able to trouble shoot an electrical problem or adding an electrical farkle. Sometimes even using a circuit as a trigger for a relay to turn on an accessory is too much, so you have to use a relay before the relay so you won't exceed the parameters of the circuit you're using as a trigger. (Boy, that didn't come out very clear, but you understand.)

 

I have a friend who's 1200RT has been in the shop several times because the heated grips won't stay on. I don't know what the BMW mechanics have tried, but they can't seem to fix the problem. Too bad it wasn't just a short and a blown fuse.

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Some might even suggest wiring an aux fuse block directly to the battery and then consumating the wiring for all accessories to that.

 

+2 - This is good advice!

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+3

I'll be adding a fusebox to my new GSA as I did with my now-sold '05 GS. I'll install two Powerlet outlets in the left and right front plastic, the left hooked into a 3 amp fuse for the GPS and the right one hooked into a 15 amp fuse for the heated jacket and gloves. My Motolights will be hooked up to the fusebox as well. I won't use the supplied BMW outlet which, I feel, is in an inconvenient place..left side below the seat. I tried to run my heated gear through that outlet and it shut off immediately. :P

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We all conveniently throw such impediments under the CANbus umbrella.

True, a lot of people do it, but it's not correct and I think continuing the misstatement is a disservice to the greater BMW riding community as a whole.

 

It is a step forward in sophistication of the motorcycle, but a step backwards for owners being able to trouble shoot an electrical problem or adding an electrical farkle.

Not true. The methods you use might have to be different, but once the system is understood, a prerequisite for any technology (e.g. the transition from carburetors to FI), anything can be done by an owner including routinely troubleshooting our own bikes by having the proper diagnostic tools.

 

 

CAN stands for “Controller Area Network”

CAN stands for "Can't Add Nothing"

Not true. Some of us have over 10 added devices/systems to our hexhead bikes.

 

 

The current controls in the ZFE module perform the exact same function of a fuse – Protect the wiring of the bike. (To the accessory outlet or wherever.) If it didn’t do that and someone plugged 15 amps worth of ‘stuff’ in a circuit with wiring built to carry 5 amps; it would be smoke city. THEN who’d be complaining up a storm about ‘BMW quality’ I wonder?

 

Sorry, I get real short real fast with people gripping about technology they haven’t bothered to understand. If you don’t want to learn it, take it to someone who does and pay the price with a smile of thanks that they do.

 

 

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Sorry, I get real short real fast with people gripping about technology they haven’t bothered to understand. If you don’t want to learn it, take it to someone who does and pay the price with a smile of thanks that they do.

 

Sorry, Ken, if I caused you to get your shorts bunched up. The quip: CAN stands for "Can't add nothing" was a direct quote from a BMW master mechanic who spends about half of his time adding electronic accessories to BMW bikes. I feel like I have a pretty good understanding about how the CANbus works and have added accessory outlets, lights, and other stuff to my 1200GS and friends' bikes. Not rocket science.

 

However, I don't agree with you about trouble shooting electrical problems being easier on the CANbus. Perhaps it is if you have a GS911 or computer. I have neither. My 1200GS was recalled twice for software recalls. That requires riding 26 miles to the dealership. Often leaving the bike or waiting a long time. Consider how convenient that is for someone who lives over 100 miles from the nearest dealer like some people I know. Or my friend who had his bike in the shop three times to get the heated grips on his 1200RT to stay on. Are the BMW mechanics who worked on his bike the ones you suggest I take my bike to "with a smile".

 

Perhaps the CANbus is the greatest thing since sliced bread. You're welcome to that opinion.

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Perhaps it is if you have a GS911 or computer.

But that’s exactly my point. We have always had to have/obtain the proper tools to work on things/our bikes. Before they had batteries you didn’t need a voltmeter. Before torques became critical in fasteners (in any application) the torque wrench hadn’t been invented and we didn’t need to own one. When space in mechanical things became tighter we bought ratchet wrenches and sockets when before open and box-end wrenches would do. Nobody could troubleshoot fuel injection if they only knew carburetor technology.

 

The GS-911, an ODB-II scanner, and a PC is just the next, and won’t be the last, in the evolution of tools. Learn to use them and the DIY problem is solved. Or at least reduced. CAN-Bus isn’t even that new having been released in 1986.

 

Are the BMW mechanics who worked on his bike the ones you suggest I take my bike to "with a smile".

Yes.

 

They’ve spent the time, effort and often big money to learn what we have not/can not. I suggest we should compensate them for that appropriately. And, yes - with a smile.

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The GS-911, an ODB-II scanner, and a PC is just the next, and won’t be the last, in the evolution of tools.

 

Thanks for helping me make my point. My original statement was "It is a step forward in sophistication of the motorcycle, but a step backwards for owners being able to trouble shoot an electrical problem or adding an electrical farkle." How much does an ODB-II scanner cost? Most owners can afford torque wrenches, volt meters, rachets plus they can be used on multiple brands of bikes, cars, and other projects. The average owner can't afford an expensive single purpose tool just to be able to work on a single brand of motorcycle. Yes, as an owner I consider that a step backwards. For people who make money working on motorcycles, it's a step forward.

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Motorcycles are certainly more sophisticated today, but that's not the manufacturers' fault; it's the result of government regulation. Electronic fuel injection is almost mandatory to meet ever more stringent emission regulations. With all the sensors required determine the proper injection pulse width, think of how difficult troubleshooting would be WITHOUT on-board diagnostics.

 

CANbus and ZFE are not necessarily tied together like Siamese twins. You can have one without the other. motogadget in Germany (Link) produces an interesting aftermarket power distribution box called the m-Unit. Like the ZFE, it includes current sensing and circuit shutdown, eliminating the need for relays and fuses. It also has several customizable features that would be nice to see on production bikes.

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Paul In Australia
P

 

 

 

Are the BMW mechanics who worked on his bike the ones you suggest I take my bike to "with a smile".

Yes.

 

They’ve spent the time, effort and often big money to learn what we have not/can not. I suggest we should compensate them for that appropriately. And, yes - with a smile.

 

 

+1 Absolutely.

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I am laughing my ass of at this.

 

Opinions are like you know what, everyone has one.

 

I agree with whoever said it ain't that hard, learn about it or pay someone and quit complaining.

 

 

THE Toad

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Motorcycles are certainly more sophisticated today, but that's not the manufacturers' fault; it's the result of government regulation. Electronic fuel injection is almost mandatory to meet ever more stringent emission regulations. With all the sensors required determine the proper injection pulse width, think of how difficult troubleshooting would be WITHOUT on-board diagnostics.

 

I agree. We all benefit from less emissions, improved fuel economy, and hopefully improved reliability. The CANbus and increased complexity is a means to that end. No dispute there.

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Just not seeing the increased complexity. It's pretty much the same as it ever was. Crank sensor, cam sensor, TPS, IAT, HO2S have them now had them then. They might operate differently hall as opposed to pulse, etc. but still there. We had diagnostics back then still have it now. Canbus reduced the amount of wiring, that's not a bad thing. If you understood it back then and were able to repair it, the same should apply today.

Install an aux fuse unit for added accessories and if you don't want to tie into lights, power socket, etc. for activation use an added togle or rocker switch.

 

Nothing new here but in all honesty if it wasn't for the GS911 diagnostics would be harder but still possible.

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Well, my 1973 R75/5 doesn't have ANY of those sensors, so not really same as it ever was. Yeah, I did add an electronic ignition but I can go back to the points on the side of the road in about five minutes.

 

Did the maximum current drop in 2010 models? My '08 handles my XL Gerbings liner and gloves just fine from the forward outlet.

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Well, my 1973 R75/5 doesn't have ANY of those sensors, so not really same as it ever was. Yeah, I did add an electronic ignition but I can go back to the points on the side of the road in about five minutes.

 

Do you really think that's what I meant?

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Your post is re:Ken H but I think you were replying to my post.

I'll type slow. Since 1993, that's 17 years, the fuel system has pretty much been the same. that's the "same as it ever was"

 

My mistake for not being more specific that I was referring to FI but I thought it was obvious because I was mentioning sensors not points and carbs.

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Nothing against anyone running an antique (my dd 4 wheeler is almost 20 yrs old) but there's little about old stuff that makes it preferable to current stuff. (That 20 yr old dd benefits from a new turocharger, bigger brakes, bigger wheels and tires, suspension changes and similar upgrades to all original systems)

 

The next generation of bike technology- trsction control electronics- is less than 2 years away because the comparison tests already happening will demonstrate to all that the controls on the new BMW sportbike allow thrashing an equivalent bike without them.

 

Except in tiny niches, the march of technology is inevitable.

 

 

 

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If you don’t think technology is good go find a car with a generator,, 6 volt lights,, non radial tires,, manual steering,, & drum brakes & drive that a while.. The only good part is it probably still has vent windows..

 

Twisty

 

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If you don’t think a car with a generator,, 6 volt lights,, non radial tires,, manual steering,, & drum brakes is good; go find a

 

796928909_6yCZh-M.jpg

 

& drive that a while. It definitely still has vent windows. :grin:

 

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Forgive me but I’m confused, it’s regarding the re: on posts and interpretation. First let me try and make my original post clearer. My reference to “same as it ever was” was referring to the fact that EFI has been around and used by BMW for a long time (had a 1985 K100RS with LE jetronic) that said, to complain about or wish for the good old days would require you going back numerous years. EFI on the RT has been with us for a while, if it was carbs and points in 2009 and now EFI in 2010 I could see the concern but commenting on a change made numerous years ago on the RT is a stretch, it’s here and has been here for a long time, and that IMO is good. I like technology EFI, ABS, ASC, TPM, ESC, CanBus, EIEIO. If the entire tech on my bike is viewed as a whole it can be overwhelming but if each piece is broken down and understood individually it makes it much easier (don’t be scared – Twisty and Ken H will get you through it)

 

OK enough of that, regarding re: Racer7 re’d me but I’m not sure why. I’m for technology and it appears so is he. Twisty re’d racer7 but the post didn’t seem to fit what I thought racer7 was saying.

 

I hope I confused everyone, misery loves company and I’m snow bound, but am I reading the re: part incorrectly?

 

Anyway, ride safe

 

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GS 911 lists for $349, not out of reach cost wise for the owner of a BMW.

 

This post is in reply to no one, and maybe everyone, or maybe just to me.

 

Get a grip, deal with the bike or sell it.

Best wishes.

 

Some days I feel like using a revolver.

Some days a semi-automatic.

I guess this is one of those days...

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