questions about good/bad year models when considered purchase of used RT

[cruisin]

I am in the process of looking at replacing my '98 R1100RT and would like to hear from those who own various year models of the R1200RT. I figure what better way to get the real scoop than to hear from actual owners with first-hand experience. I prefer not to have any "I have a friend whose uncle's cousin had this or that happen type of responses -- first hand experience only please.

 

I am in the process of reading as much as I can here on the maintenance thread and all of the various topics, but that is gonna take a while.

 

A few specific questions (below) come to mind but I have just started looking, so any others you think are critical in helping me with a decision of why I should choose an R1200RT over another low-mileage R1100RT will be appreciated. The things I am pretty sure I will like about the newer RT are the lighter weight, factory lowering options (if I can find a used factory lowered model), and increased performance. Although I am not nearly as concerned about high performance as I am two-up touring ability with comfort for my wife.

 

Also, I am not in a huge hurry, so even if this takes several months or even a year or two, I'm OK with that. In fact, if I end up leaning toward the later years ('08 and '09) it will likely be a year or two before the prices are at a level I can afford.

 

Specific questions that I have:

 

1. what year did they get away from the sealed final drive (or have they)?

 

2. have the problems with the electronic key security system been resolved?

 

3. what year has the simplest and most reliable braking system?

 

4. pros and cons of traction control

 

5. how does the new RT compare to the 11xx series for weather protection? (very important for me as my old RT was my winter ride) Please answer this only if you actually owned an 1100 or 1150 before owning an R1200.

 

6. how low is the factory lowered model? (not just the factory numbers but seat of the pants if you have a short inseam of 28" or less.)

 

7. pros and cons of the adjustable suspension system.

 

8. difficulty in various DIY maintenance chores. (I have been turning wrenches on bikes since 1968, so I have pretty good skills here as well as a good set of tools and very knowledgeable sources to draw information from).

 

no doubt, I have left something out but you guys will probably cover it any way.

 

thanks in advance for the input.

klc

[JayW]

Well, as an actual owner with first hand experience, I do not think that there are any bad Hexhead RT model years. My '05 with 58K miles, which I bought new, has been bulletproof with no leaks, FD problems, brake problems or any other repair issues other than the recalls, which never caused any specific problems for me either. Most maintenance items are particularly easy to perform on the Hexheads. I like the ESA, and in fact replaced my shocks with OEM ones when they wore out. They are expensive (I managed to find a slightly used pair from Beemerboneyard.com as my replacements).

 

Some of the early year RT's ('05 and '06 I think) did have more engine seal leaks and the more complex (though very effective) brake systems than the later years.

 

I have a 30 inch inseam and do just fine with the OEM low seat.

 

I still have a ball and come back smiling every time i ride it. I'm sure others here will chime in on some of your other questions.

 

Jay

[lawnchairboy]

I have an 06. No problems except recently, it looks like the boot around where the drive shaft hooks to the tranny is weeping a bit. Otherwise uneventful and enjoyable 43k. Maintenance: I am a relative mechanical idiot and have managed virtually all the maintenance myself. Tires, brake pads, oil changes, final drive and tranny changes, valve clearance checks, and TB syncs. Recently replaced the shocks with ohlins. If I can do it, anyone can.

 

I think in 07 or 08 the final drive fluid change became easier due to a final drive drain plug relocation and the servo assist on the brakes went away at some point after 06. I purposely ordered mine new without ESA and traction control wasn't an available option in 06.

 

Pretty pleased with mine. It is particularly satisfying to be able to do the maintenance. I could do without the servo assist brakes, needless complexity in my book but they do make that odd robotic sound when you start it...

[cruisin]

Well, as an actual owner with first hand experience, I do not think that there are any bad Hexhead RT model years. My '05 with 58K miles, which . . . . in on some of your other questions.

 

Jay

 

that's what I'm talkin' about -- first-hand experience leading to honest opinions with no hype. thank you.

[Tony_K]

I have an 06. No problems except recently, it looks like the boot around where the drive shaft hooks to the tranny is weeping a bit.

 

Just a point to note on this statment. As with previous models the rubber boot is just a dust cover. The fluid weeping is resulting from a seal breach. Either on the transmission or final drive. This is something that needs to be repaired.

[Twisties]

1. what year did they get away from the sealed final drive (or have they)?

 

It is still sealed, however beginning in '08 (and maybe some late '07's) they come with a drain plug so you don't have to drop the FD to change the fluid. Presently fluid changes are recommended every 12k miles and fill volume is 180 mls. Dropping the FD is not such a bad thing. I inspect and lube the rear input shaft splines each time, and it is easy. We think the change to 180 mls was to reduce pressure buildup and lessen the chance of the seals blowing out.

 

2. have the problems with the electronic key security system been resolved?

 

It's hard to say definitively, but my impression is yes. I have not heard of one since the recall.

 

3. what year has the simplest and most reliable braking system?

 

So far as I know all the brakes are reliable. For ease of flushing and better performance you want one without the servo system, and with the steel braided lines. This would be '07 or later. i believe flush frequency is after one year, then every 4 years. Flushes are easy on the non-servo system.

 

6. how low is the factory lowered model? (not just the factory numbers but seat of the pants if you have a short inseam of 28" or less.)

 

My wife's RT was lowered post purchase. The factory lowered models came out a bit later than our pair of mid-07's. You will be looking at an '08 or later (maybe some late '07's). Let me know if you want comments on lowering a standard height bike. It is an option you should consider IMHO.

 

7. pros and cons of the adjustable suspension system.

 

If you are going from one-up day load to two-up touring load you just push a button. On the other hand, it takes seconds to turn a knob.... There have been several expensive failures reported. When it was time to replace my shocks I went with a quality aftermarket shock. I rarely make any adjustments, but I don't ride 2-up.

 

Replacement of the ESA shocks w/bmw product is very expensive, like $3k or so. ESA you take bmw's settings, no ability to dial in. YMMV, but I would look for a bike w/Ohlins, Wilburs or Works Performance shocks on it, and budget to have them rebuilt and customized to your use. Otherwise, I would just plan on getting rid of ESA when it is time for shock replacement, if it was on the bike you get.

 

8. difficulty in various DIY maintenance chores. (I have been turning wrenches on bikes since 1968, so I have pretty good skills here as well as a good set of tools and very knowledgeable sources to draw information from).

 

Taking the tupperware off is a chore, but likely not worse than the 11xx (from what i have seen at techdaze). Otherwise routine maintenance is pretty straightforward. adjust valves, sync throttle bodies, change fluids, air filter, spark plugs, alternator belt, brake flush all at specified intervals.

 

The bike is hard to clean, with all the cracks and crannies.

 

9. no doubt, I have left something out but you guys will probably cover it any way.

 

I assume you are aware of FD failures.

[cruisin]

Twisties, your feedback is much appreciated. I would definitely like to hear more about after-market lowering options as it will likely be difficult to find a used factory lowered model. On my 1100 I had a custom seat, altered seat adjustment mechanism, 17" rear wheel, and shorter Ohlins shocks to get to a height where I had the balls of my feet on the ground but not my heels. I felt plenty steady when solo and comfortable enough when two-up that I never dropped it in nearly 100K miles of ownership. I figure a lowered R12RT should be easier to manage due to the lighter weight.

[lvmyks]

Here early 08, no FD drain plug.

 

I am 29" inseam, had the seat done by Rich in Seattle. I am not flat footed, but feel very comfortable.

 

Only problem in 15,000 was EWS, new key ring and off I went.

 

Maintenace is FUN, nothing I can't do. The FD takes one hour. Good time to clean the hard to reach places.

 

I had a 03 KRS, servo brakes were OK. Had help bleeding but no problem. So I think all HexHeads are good, you have to make the choice on braking systems, that will determin the model year.

[bmurphypdx]

I'll address your question number 4 re traction control. I have an 07 R1200ST, not an RT, but the traction control is the same system. In three years and nearly 30,000 miles I've only knowingly used it once. I inadvertently found myself on a powerline access road - for reasons I will not bother with here, I thought it was better to go forward rather than turn back. Turned a corner and was confronted with a very steep slope, five to six inches deep loose gravel, not much more than one lane wide with one side dropping into an abyss. I wanted to keep my momentum so I put it in first gear and opened the throttle. The bike climbed that slope like a mountain goat and never once slipped the rear wheel. While I don't ordinarily subject the bike to those conditions, the ASC worked perfectly in my mind. That is, after all, why we have ABS and ASC, not to use them regularly, but to have the capability when needed.

[gocatgo]

I have an '09 factory lowered R1200RT. ESA is not an option with the factory lowered bike, nor was a heated seat. I'm fine without them, I consider both to be something else to fail and add weight. I love the bike. The only complaint I have about the lowered bike/seat setup is that in a drenching rainstorm the seat collects water, soaking my bum even through overpants. I will get my seat customized a bit to try and allow for some drainage. Either that or invest heavily in Anti-Monkeybutt Powder.

[Twisties]

Twisties, your feedback is much appreciated. I would definitely like to hear more about after-market lowering options as it will likely be difficult to find a used factory lowered model. On my 1100 I had a custom seat, altered seat adjustment mechanism, 17" rear wheel, and shorter Ohlins shocks to get to a height where I had the balls of my feet on the ground but not my heels. I felt plenty steady when solo and comfortable enough when two-up that I never dropped it in nearly 100K miles of ownership. I figure a lowered R12RT should be easier to manage due to the lighter weight.

 

What Sharon had done was to order aftermarket lowered shocks. Not sure about all brands, but Works at least can lower a shock on rebuild (if you find a bike that already has aftermarket shocks), and you get your choice as to how much lower to go. She went 1". I think up to 2"'s is feasible. So this is another advantage to going with aftermarket shocks. I expect Works can do a lowered ESA shock too, if you wanted to go that way. In any event, in addition to the lowered shocks, she had the center stand and side stand cut. This was done by a local welding shop, and repainted. Total cost, including shocks, modification of both stands and installation was about $1500. She already had the factory low seat, and a Cee Bailey Sumdome (with her height, 5'2", on the low seat she was looking through the stock windshield) That's really all there is to it.

 

In my mind things to consider: Choice of low seat vs. standard seat. In an ideal world this should relate more to riding position (how you sit in the cockpit and on the bike) and the relationship of your hips, legs and feet (or you may need peg adjustments too). Shock height should be used, as much as possible, to set the overall seat height. However, notwithstanding the above, the primary issue with lowering is loss of clearance for lean angle to the cylinder heads. So don't go too far.

 

The muffler clamp position/angle may need to be adjusted to allow the cut center stand to close fully. Just after Sharon's was done I was changing fluids and put the clamp on normally. This caused center stand to drag and I just about slid off the road on the first turn I took on post maintenance test ride. When I say adjusted, I don't mean welding work, just how you put it on each time. Just something to be aware of. Since, we have learned how to get the center stand fully up I believe the first thing to hit in a turn now would be the peg feelers or cylinder heads, close on that. So far not an issue as we have had plenty of clearance.

 

You understand that the center stand is cut the same number of inches as the bike is lowered, but the side stand either should be marked, or do the trigonometry, as you need to take a bit more off for the angle.

 

She doesn't lean the bike all that much (on the lowered bike):

 

 

Mr. Whip might lean it a bit more:

 

 

One last word of advice, when talking to folks about inseam measurement, make sure you are all agreed on exactly how this is measured. Sharon is leggy we discovered, with a 5'2" overall height she sports a 30" inseam measured from crotch to instep. The good news is she rode that bike 22k miles before it was lowered, so I would think you'll do fine.

[cruisin]

5'2" with a 30" inseam -- that's just wrong. Only kidding around of course. I am 5'4" with a 28" inseam (doesn't seem fair at all). I experienced similar challenges in lowering my '98, and the center stand was the biggest of them all. It definitely touched down first in hard lean angles until I discovered that bending the metal stop on the left leg allowed it to tuck an additional 3/4" up into the catalytic converter recess. I also had to experiment a bit with the length of the side stand before getting it just right. Fortunately, I have the metal working tools to accomplish those two parts of the lowering process and won't have to pay someone else to do that.

 

I would like to hear more about what you and others think of the various after market shocks available for lowering these bikes though.

 

As for concerns about scraping hard parts in turns these days, I'm not terribly worried about that since I have gotten used to the limitations encountered on my '98 for about 85K miles now and don't anticipate pushing hard enough to make it an issue. Of course the new "fun factor" can always make me eat those words.

 

In your pictures, it looks like you have altered the factory windscreen somewhat. I am guessing to allow your wife to see over it. I altered a couple on my '98 and came up with a pretty darn good way of finishing the edges. If you need that info, I would be glad to share it in a PM rather than waste space here.

 

A couple of things, I forgot to ask about in my first post was fuel mileage under various conditions; speed, two-up, wind, etc. and I am also wondering if anyone has attempted to modify a final drive with easy to use drain/fill plugs and if so, how has that worked out? It still makes no sense to me whatever that BMW would make it so difficult to service a component that needs regular fluid changes. What WERE they thinking?

[Paul Mihalka]

"What WERE they thinking?" They were thinking that the transmission oil will not be changed for the life of the bike. What were they thinking?

[Twisties]

5'2" with a 30" inseam -- that's just wrong. Only kidding around of course. I am 5'4" with a 28" inseam (doesn't seem fair at all). I experienced similar challenges in lowering my '98, and the center stand was the biggest of them all. It definitely touched down first in hard lean angles until I discovered that bending the metal stop on the left leg allowed it to tuck an additional 3/4" up into the catalytic converter recess. I also had to experiment a bit with the length of the side stand before getting it just right. Fortunately, I have the metal working tools to accomplish those two parts of the lowering process and won't have to pay someone else to do that.

 

I would like to hear more about what you and others think of the various after market shocks available for lowering these bikes though.

 

As for concerns about scraping hard parts in turns these days, I'm not terribly worried about that since I have gotten used to the limitations encountered on my '98 for about 85K miles now and don't anticipate pushing hard enough to make it an issue. Of course the new "fun factor" can always make me eat those words.

 

In your pictures, it looks like you have altered the factory windscreen somewhat. I am guessing to allow your wife to see over it. I altered a couple on my '98 and came up with a pretty darn good way of finishing the edges. If you need that info, I would be glad to share it in a PM rather than waste space here.

 

A couple of things, I forgot to ask about in my first post was fuel mileage under various conditions; speed, two-up, wind, etc. and I am also wondering if anyone has attempted to modify a final drive with easy to use drain/fill plugs and if so, how has that worked out? It still makes no sense to me whatever that BMW would make it so difficult to service a component that needs regular fluid changes. What WERE they thinking?

 

She has a Cee Bailey Sumdome on it.

 

Fuel economy depends on altitude, speed, electrical load (heated gear, grips, seat), ambient temperature, wind, weather, top case, etc. Most riders experience something between 35 and 60 mpg. At our altitude we are often above 50 mpg in good weather and lightly loaded. The large bmw topcase will run you about 3 mpg. Heated jacket, seat and grips all on about 5 or more mpg. Even at sea level in good weather I think most riders figure above 40 mpg.

[JayW]

A couple of things, I forgot to ask about in my first post was.. fuel mileage..and I am also wondering if anyone has attempted to modify a final drive with easy to use drain/fill plugs..It still makes no sense..

 

I typically get about 50 mpg in routine use, below 40 mpg at the track, and experimentally have gotten well over 60 mpg on state highways when I avoid the brakes, feather the throttle and ride at about 55 mph.

 

Your fretting over the FD is not worth the energy. I wouldn't try to install a drain plug; you might inadvertently encumber something, drill into a gear, or get some shavings up in there. It is still easy to service as-is, especially after you do it the first time. Besides, lowering the FD gives you a change to clean and relube the splines back there.

 

Jay

[KROWBAR]

The hydraulic clutch fluid was switched from brake fluid to mineral oil either in late '06 or early '07 I believe. It helped reduce seal failures in the system. i have an early '07. Has mineral oil for the clutch system.

 

I would not get the ESA since it cannot be rebuit and is expensive to replace.

 

Taking $$$$$ out of the equation I'd opt for a late '08 or an '09.

 

I get around 45 mpg at 70 mph.

 

My 2 cents.

 

Happy with my '07 and some saved $$$$$$.

 

[UA342]

The hydraulic clutch fluid was switched from brake fluid to mineral oil either in late '06 or early '07 I believe. It helped reduce seal failures in the system. i have an early '07. Has mineral oil for the clutch system.

 

I would not get the ESA since it cannot be rebuit and is expensive to replace.

 

Taking $$$$$ out of the equation I'd opt for a late '08 or an '09.

 

I get around 45 mpg at 70 mph.

 

My 2 cents.

 

Happy with my '07 and some saved $$$$$$.

 

My 05 has mineral oil for the clutch. My ESA is also working great too.

[Ken H.]

My 05 has mineral oil for the clutch.

Yes, all the hexheads do.

 

I can't post any comments on the various R1200RTs because of all the limits on who can post the OP put up.

[Mike05]

My 05 has mineral oil for the clutch.

Yes, all the hexheads do.

 

I can't post any comments on the various R1200RTs because of all the limits on who can post the OP put up.

 

 

Hi Ken, how's Donna? 3Putt (Tom & Joyce Neth) are coming down next week to get out of the cold for a few days. You guys are welcome anytime as well.

 

"Hi" from Joyce too.

 

 

[lvnvbiker]

I'll say this about the ESA, while a neat trick it did basicly nothing for me. At 5'10" and 225lbs the spring rates on the 07RT seemed a bit harsh in comfort mode and stayed that way so I left it in normal all the time and was fine. The bike handles well and with my 30" inseam in the low possition the standard seat was fine, it took a bit of getting used to but was ok overall.

I have not owned an oilhead so I can't comment as to differances there.

[Grumpy-ol-Fart]

Twisty; not only did late '07's not get the updated drain plug, my early '08 didn't get it...

[cruisin]

 

I can't post any comments on the various R1200RTs because of all the limits on who can post the OP put up.

 

I asked the questions that are most important to me. And I put the statement in

 

no doubt, I have left something out but you guys will probably cover it any way.

to glean any other pertinent information. But if one has not previously owned or does not currently own an R1200RT, then their thoughts about the bike are meaningless to me and it would be better that they not waste their time nor mine with comments -- don't you think?

[JayW]

But if one has not previously owned or does not currently own an R1200RT, then their thoughts about the bike are meaningless to me and it would be better that they not waste their time nor mine with comments -- don't you think?

 

No (I know you're not asking me, but that has never stopped me from answering before ).

 

The RT shares many very similar components, including the engine, transmission, FD, electrical design, as well as other essentially identical parts with the other Hexheads. Moreover, many of the folks on this board who don't own one still know more about the RT than I do. Would you shun advice from a knowledgeable motorcycle service technician or experienced rider just because he doesn't happen to personally own the bike in question?

 

I can sort of see where you are coming from, but you may have set yourself up to miss out on some very valuable counsel.

 

Jay

[Paul In Australia]

 

 

Specific questions that I have:

 

1. what year did they get away from the sealed final drive (or have they)?

 

2. have the problems with the electronic key security system been resolved?

 

3. what year has the simplest and most reliable braking system?

 

4. pros and cons of traction control

 

5. how does the new RT compare to the 11xx series for weather protection? (very important for me as my old RT was my winter ride) Please answer this only if you actually owned an 1100 or 1150 before owning an R1200.

 

6. how low is the factory lowered model? (not just the factory numbers but seat of the pants if you have a short inseam of 28" or less.)

 

7. pros and cons of the adjustable suspension system.

 

8. difficulty in various DIY maintenance chores. (I have been turning wrenches on bikes since 1968, so I have pretty good skills here as well as a good set of tools and very knowledgeable sources to draw information from).

 

no doubt, I have left something out but you guys will probably cover it any way.

 

thanks in advance for the input.

klc

 

Ok I had a 1999 R1100RT ( 60k) and now a 2008 R1200RT ( 55k).

First thing is they are very different bikes and the 1200 is IMO much better at virtually everything.

 

EWS is no longer a problem from whee I am from. It was fixed over 2 years ago with a recall.

My 2008 has partially linked brakes. Easy to use and work on. Think this changed mid 2007 from the more complicated full linked and fully servo assisted models. Believe the 2008 is very slightly servod. Not noticeable anyway to me. Brakes are fabulous.

My bike is standard height suspension. I have a low seat which I use around town and the standard seat on long trips. Works great for me. I am 5'7" with a 29" inseam.

I really like the ESA. Works great for me as I often slab to twisties and some times have 2 up and extra baggage when touring. So easy and I am lucky the settings suit me. When replaced it will be with some ESA style shocks ( OEM, Hyperpro etc ).

Pretty easy to work on the 2008 RT. Doing the basics is very easy, the rest appears to depend on your level of experience and whether you have access to a code reader. Not sure if this will be the case on the 2010 model. There are guys here who will know more about that than BMW know.

 

If your short IMO the standard screen is excellent. The six speed box is still clunky but works great. Clutch, being dry and high first gear) needs some learning. Do that one up. Final drive issue needs to be held in perspective. a lot of us have had no problems at all ( in fact a vast majority ), but if you do have it could be a PITA.

 

Overall I am estatic to change over from the 1100 to the 1200. The 1100 was my dream bike . The dream was substantially upgraded by the 1200.

The other factor is that this forum has more combined knowledge on USING the Rt's than you could ever hope to utilise. Listen to everyone. All points are valid. All R bikes are a valid benchmark.

 

Hope your R1200 RT gets here soon. Your missing a great machine until it arrives.

best regards

Paul

 

[midatlanticcycle]

Cruisin: i bought a 2003 R1150RT with ABS and had 22,000 trouble-free miles, absolutely loved the bike. traded up last year for slightly used 2007 R1200RT. only have 12,000 miles on it but has been wonderful, and only 1 recall. had 2 minor things fixed under warranty. fuel gauge sending strip thingy and ABS dash light glitch. the 1200 does everything better than my 1150 did and that's saying something. lighter, faster, more torque, better handling, looks are subjective. tupperware a bit tedious to remove first time, and after that a cinch if you keep the fasteners in order. great MPG, tires are reasonably priced and same sizes as many older rice-rockets, perishable items fairly cheap as well. swithced over to 20-50 synthetic at the 8,000 mile mark. BEST THING I LIKE ABOUT THE 1200 V. 1150???? THE BATTERY is under the seat, NOT behind left side fairing assembly. where it should be. a great bike, no problems whatsoever, slightly better wind/rain protection i think that 1150. hope this info. helps your decision. mine is ABS/heated everything/NON-ESA model

[1NOTRED]

Item 5. Comparison with earlier RTs.

 

I put 186k miles on my '96 RT. It was a great bike, but my new R1200RT is better in most ways (weight, power, options...).

BUT, the old RTs are marginally better in these areas:

Wind protection. The new RT shape was apparently designed by the stylists and marketers, not by the engineers. Wind protection is a significant notch below the old one.

1. The standard windscreen is lousy (I prefer an open face helmet, so I'm particularly sensitive). There are a number of aftermarket screens available. Problem is deciding on the right one for you. And everyone has a different opinion. I went to Parabellum and we designed one that works for me (looks a lot like the one from Touratech).

2. Other areas I found inferior wind protection:

- Feet see more cold air blast vs. R1100/1500RT. Especially around boot heels. Can move feet forward to put heels on pegs in rain, which helps a lot, but this feels abnormal.

- Back of gloves see more cold air vs R1100/1500RT

Overall, I really miss the nearly perfect (for my 5'8" frame) R1100/1500RT wind protection.

 

R1200RT instruments are lousy because BMW chose to put a cheap (but nice looking) convex plastic cover over the entire instrument area. Makes seeing the nice info. readout almost impossible unless the sun is at your back (half the day?). Can't see anything except the speedo and tach; no odom., fuel gauge, range, temp., etc. This is inexcusable, but BMW chose not to correct this. Touratech sells an add-on sunshade, but it is only a moderate help.

 

R1200RT Cruise Control is super! I put electronic cruise on my R1100RT, and wouldn't be without it. But, the BMW cruise on the R1200RT works perfectly.

 

I like the side bags better on the R12 because the attachments are nicer and work better. But, the double layer lids are soooo wide. I changed to the city case lids I found in France.

 

Suspension is better on the R12. Helps make the bike feel more responsive and playful(less weight is also part of it).

 

Can't access the rear suspension preload knob without removing the R1200RT seat. A step backward.

 

So, overall.. what is my reaction?

The R1200RT is a better bike in most ways (newer is usually better, I've found), but I will always remember my R1100RT and wish for it's better wind protection. But not miss the weight.

 

 

 

 

[SK_in_AB]

Late to this thread as i have been away from my computer for awhile.

 

I had an '02 1150 and now and '06RT. Agree with most of what has been said here but don't know much about the various R12 years.

 

Best improvements from my '02

Smoother transmission

No surging

Cruise control is very good

Better side and top case handle/hardware

Way better headlights (PITA to change bulbs but I haven't done that yet)

ESA is useful if you change loads and road types a lot.

 

Only downside I can think of is I actually think my '02 was warmer on the upper body. I can feel more wind around the sides of my arms than I remember on my old bike. But I also got a gerbings liner so it is not an issue anymore.

 

 

[b34cez]

I have an ’08 with ESA, so here is my point of view should it be of any help to you:

 

1. what year did they get away from the sealed final drive (or have they)?

Sometime during 2007 they did the following: repositioned the draining screw from lateral to below (logical position), changed from lifetime to 10,000 km oil change interval and changed the filling prescription from 220 to 180 ml.

However, the FD reliability is the question mark upon deciding to go for RT, and I do not know if they fixed it. I had the newer FD and still had the failure during warranty (at about 13,000 km). I usually choose twisties and ride 2 up, but other than this nothing worth mentioning. The dealer’s mechanic told me that he had bikes with over 50,000 km after replacement without the problem reappearing. Still, some have FD failure (and you can find on this forum like 4-5 replacements in one bike) while others do not.

Should you decide to go for it – make it a routine from checking the lateral play at the rear wheel.

 

2. have the problems with the electronic key security system been resolved?

Haven’t had this issue and, in fact no issue other than FD.

 

3. what year has the simplest and most reliable braking system?

I have not heard of any reliability issues on the brakes. In fact, brakes are one of the best things on this bike.

 

4. pros and cons of traction control

Cannot comment it. I have it, ridden heavily through rain but never saw it lit.

 

5. how does the new RT compare to the 11xx series for weather protection? (very important for me as my old RT was my winter ride) Please answer this only if you actually owned an 1100 or 1150 before owning an R1200.

Cannot comment it as I only exchanged several times with a friend’s R1100 RT, but when you just exchange bikes you look at other things.

 

6. how low is the factory lowered model? (not just the factory numbers but seat of the pants if you have a short inseam of 28" or less.)

I do not know, however please be aware that there are several options available:

(a) normal suspension, normal seat;

(b) normal suspension, lowered seat;

© lowered suspension – this does not go with ESA.

and in all cases the seat has 2 settings (high and low).

I am about 180 cm, initially concerned about reaching the pavement I order normal suspension with lowered seat. Once I got accustomed to the bike I moved to the normal seat (which you cannot do easily if you choose the lower suspension).

The idea is: you get accustomed really quick to the height of the bike. If you can do not go for the lower suspension, but rather purchase the lower seat (optional) instead. I drag my pegs several times on twisties with a normal suspension.

 

7. pros and cons of the adjustable suspension system.

I have it, and I use it to adjust one up-two up and normal-comfort (normal/bad road). The sport setting seems too stiff and disturbing on the twisties and I do not use it. There is a huge difference between normal-comfort in terms of amortization, but also on dive braking.

Let’s put it this way: it is nice to have it there (as you probably will not stop to adjust it on the road), but when you think that you will have to change shocks one day you might consider saving the money and go for the non-ESA.

 

8. difficulty in various DIY maintenance chores. (I have been turning wrenches on bikes since 1968, so I have pretty good skills here as well as a good set of tools and very knowledgeable sources to draw information from).

No difficulty at all. You may consider searching for BMW RepRom R Model just to know what you can purchase officially from the dealer.

 

9. Other things

You will find complaints about standard seat comfort or windshield coverage. Do not really mind about them, just ride the bike and get yourself accustomed to the seat and windshield.

Optional equipment that I liked on the bike:

- Oil level sensor – accurate to present;

- TPS – it actually shows the pressure in each tire, so you do not have to check it manually, again accurate to present;

- Stereo system. While I find it disturbing to listen to music in headphones, I like it through the speakers up to 140 kmph (I don’t ride faster than that to know). Radio-CD does not accept MP3 (only the 2010 model), but you can fit an auxiliary input and/or Ipod interface (the later lets you change tracks and playlists from the handlebar controls).

 

I wish you the best of luck in your choice and really enjoy it once you have it.

 

[hopz]

I have been reading this thread and finally have decided to pitch in.

 

You are asking an honest question, and I respect that, but having said that... this series of bike just does not have issues that are serious enough from one year to the next to make any difference.

 

There are minor difference along the way that you may or may not appreciate, or may or may not even care about. So What? I believe the best strategy is to look at as many bikes as you can and buy the one that "speaks to you". You will be a happy camper.

[cruisin]

Twisties, Paul in Australia, midatlanticcycle, Yellowknife, b34cez, SK_in_AB, etal.

 

Your answers have been extremely helpful here. They are well thought out and appear to give honest opinions with no hype; just exactly what I wanted.

 

And, not to diminish what others have said; many have good points but I knew coming in what questions I needed answered as pertains only to the R1200RT and comparing it to the 1100RT. I'm really just not interested in any other type of BMW at this point. I fully realize there are similarities but I am looking for first-hand model specific information.

 

All that said, a couple of points that came up that I would like to respond to. Lowering: I have my current ST bike (the 1100RT) lowered with shorter Ohlins shocks and a custom seat and still have just the balls of my feet on the ground. I'm fine with that as I have learned how to deal with it for nearly 100K miles of riding the 1100. So, if/when I spring for a 1200, it will need to be lowered in every possible way. I won't worry too much about touching hard parts in turns with a lowered bike because I will likely drive it very much like I drive the 1100 because my tolerance for risk goes down with age as my allergy for pain goes up.

 

Thanks to all for the responses; the biggest deciding factor now will be if my wife rekindles her interest in riding with me. If I see that I need a reliable two-up touring bike again, I will definitely take all of this information to heart as I keep an eye on the '08s, '09s and possibly the '10s. And if she continues to take the Jetta while I ride; the R12C and the R80 are all I need.

[billS]

I went from an 1100 to a 1200 last year and don’t regret it. I got an 07 as it seemed to a few bugs ironed out.

 

But one thing that was a pain in the backside for my passenger was her seat, even on the bike we test rode she hated it straight away. It makes you wonder how they can put such a crap seat on such an expensive bike. The 1100 seat was like an armchair (here words) compared to the slab on the 1200.

 

We now have Touratech seats front and back, great improvement, can now go all day without to much pain.

 

The other thing you may want to try is cruise control best thing ever imo for highway work.

 

You will also notice the weight difference, better handling and brakes, just think about using front brake and it pulls you up.

 

Good luck

Bill

 

 

[Green RT]

I can't post any comments on the various R1200RTs because of all the limits on who can post the OP put up.

Glad to see I wasn't the only one put off by that intro. Another way to accomplish the same thing is to just ask people to be specific about the basis for their opinions.

[1analguy]

I'll say this about the ESA, while a neat trick it did basicly nothing for me. At 5'10" and 225lbs the spring rates on the 07RT seemed a bit harsh in comfort mode and stayed that way so I left it in normal all the time and was fine. The bike handles well and with my 30" inseam in the low possition the standard seat was fine, it took a bit of getting used to but was ok overall.

I have not owned an oilhead so I can't comment as to differances there.

 

On the ESA system, the "Comfort/Normal/Sport" setting refers to the damping (shocks) adjustment, not the spring (load) adjustment. The spring adjustment is covered by the "One Helmet/One Helmet plus Suitcase/Two Helmets" graphic. BMW says the ESA system was calibrated for a rider weighing 185 lbs. If you weigh 225 and your RT rides harshly with your shocks set at "Comfort" and your spring set at "One Helmet" , then your ESA isn't working correctly. I weigh 225 and when mine is set to "Comfort/One Helmet" (most of the time), my bike's ride quality is absolutely amazing. It easily rides as smoothly as my car, a 2-ton '09 Dodge Challenger (also an R/T!) that was itself purposely-calibrated for ride quality. You should feel a definite difference in ride quality with every step in adjustment of shocks and/or spring. If you don't, then you probably have an ESA issue to deal with...

[b34cez]

cruisin, you mentioned the R12C. That is one hell of a bike, that later got me into buying the 12RT. Don’t get me wrong, I enjoy the RT better, however you will not get the same no dive breaking on the RT (probably on the sport setting only, but that is difficult on usual roads) as you got on the R12C.