no start

[ed may]

hi all, looking for some ideas-stalled the rt this morning in first. Thought it was in neutral and just let the clutch out. No big deal, we've all done it before. Well now the starter just clicks once when trying to start. Battery is good. Check engine light comes on and some icon next to it came on momentarily, not sure what it was. Almost sounds like the starter solenoid clicks,(if it has one!) and the starter does nothing.

[10ovr]

How do you know the battery is good,,Did you load test it? You can also put on the center sand,,Put in in 6th gear and turn the rear wheel to make sure the motor turns over,,,I know a guy here in AZ that did the same thing and it broke the cam chain,,Locked up the motor,,,,If you have time.,,Pull the top plugs,,Makes it easier to turn over,,

[ed may]

Didn't have alot of time this morning, high beams good and bright, been on the tender for months, started good first time. Tried jumper cables to the car, no different. Pushed it a little back and forth in first and engine seemed to turn, but i'll try it on the center stand to make sure it turns more than a little. Getting home tonight at 6 and i'll try it. Thanks. Broken cam chain, that would make my day.

[ed may]

anybody else?

[10ovr]

The only way to test a battery is a load test,,

[johnlt]

When you stalled it, had the starter completely disengaged and the engine was idling?

[ed may]

but wouldn't the jumper cables to another battery rule that out?

and it started good and ran a few minutes before this happened. I'm so anxious to diagnose it i want to leave work now!

[ed may]

first stalled because kickstand was down and i shifted into gear. Then i put up the kickstand and started it. Idled for about 5 seconds, then let the clutch out forgetting it was still in gear. The starter was disengaged at that point.

[10ovr]

but wouldn't the jumper cables to another battery rule that out?

and it started good and ran a few minutes before this happened. I'm so anxious to diagnose it i want to leave work now!

Not if a cell on the battery shorted,,,,Go to work,,It well still be there when you get back,,,

[ed may]

thanks for the words of wisdom. hopefully its something simple like that.

[10ovr]

Take the battery out and drop by a place that can load test it,,That way you know for sure that is or is not the problem,,and you can go from there,,Alwess start with the basics.

[bobbybob]

If you already tried jumper cables from your car (assuming you're sure it was a good connection), then the battery has pretty much been ruled out...esp. since you say the headlights/etc seem to be normal. Unless---you have a bad battery terminal connection (corrosion) that is keeping the amps from flowing, and the jumper cables were somehow connected to the terminals, not the actual bikes cables.

[ed may]

jump cables were clamped onto bike cables. wigled them all a bit too. i have a bad feeling its not the battery.

[JayW]

I still have a feeling it is the battery.

 

Good luck and keep us updated...

 

Jay

[ed may]

Thanks guys, I will post tonight after messing with it when i get home.

[10ovr]

I still have a feeling it is the battery.

 

Good luck and keep us updated...

 

Jay

Me to,,There is only one way to check a battery,,Load Test,,If a battery is shorted,,Jump starting it with a car is not going to start it,,,,The only way to be 100% sure its not the battery is to LOAD TEST it,,There is no jumper test,No head light test,,No spank the monkey test,,,Load test,,Thats it

[ed may]

got it

[10ovr]

Ed,I have seen to many tech's assume something is good and not properly test them,,Then they chase there ass for hours and even days,,If you test the battery and its good,,then you move on to the next thing,,,Just saying,,,

[ed may]

your right, and my curiosity is getting the best of me.

[bobbybob]

To *completely* rule out the bike battery, simply disconnect its ground cable, then connect your car's battery to the bike's + & - cables, thereby taking the bike battery out of the equation. Make SURE to observe correct polarity.

 

I have never experienced a true "shorted" battery where a jump start battery was completely grounded out thru the battery's terminals. If that were the case, there would be HUGE sparks when the jumper battery was connected to the "shorted" battery and probably a fire. I can't see how a *true* short circuit could actually occur. I understand how one battery *cell* can go bad and make it appear to be completely dead, but that doesn't seem to be the case here since his headlights/etc. seem normal. Maybe MKL can jump in here if he's around.

[JayW]

You might also try to disconnect the battery for a few minutes, then hook it back up and see what happens. Maybe that'll "reset" something.

 

Jay

[ed may]

Funny you should say that, because that is what i just did. Sometimes in the car world that fixes stuff, it seems to help if you touch the terminals together too (a gm engineer suggested this to me years ago). Well it started right up. It was on the tender all day. I did not load test it, but I have a midtronics tester from work that somehow measures conductivity of the battery and rates it. Does anyone know the cca of these batteries? It measures about 200. Voltage was 13 before starting, (fresh off the tender) and dropped to 9 something durring a slow crank before starting. I think that battery is shot. Any oppinions on tenders? Leave them on 24/7 durring winter? Someone told me they can cook a battery. I will sleep good tonight!

[johnlt]

With an Odyssey battery, I never even used a tender when I left the bike for 6 or 8 months. These batteries loose very little when left unattended. Wet cells or gel cells do loose quite a bit when left unattended for long and tenders probably make sense with them. This has been my experience.

[ed may]

I just read all about them on there site, I'm buying one Monday. Does anyone know the cross reference/odyssey battery for the 06 rt?

[10ovr]

Ed,If that is the factory battery in it,,You did good,,Thats about 4 years,,,Myself I replace my battery every 3 years,,it sucks to be stuck out in the middle of no-wear with a dead battery,, Get your self a new Odyssey or WestCo battery and you up and running agean,,Good deal,,,

[10ovr]

Odyssey PC680 should be the one for your bike

[JayW]

Any opinions on tenders?

 

I don't bother with one. I think they are a waste of effort as long as you are able to take a good long ride every few weeks. If you store the bike for more than a month, then hooking one up may be helpful. I have never used one on the 4.5 year old OEM battery in my RT.

 

By the way, the manual seems to suggest this approach too.

 

I am glad you got your bike running. Must be a relief to you.

 

Jay

[bobbybob]

Still doesn't sound good for this to happen as it did: 1) bike cranked and was running fine until 2)you stalled the engine, then it wouldn't crank again. 3) After charging it all day, it cranked again.

 

I hope a new battery will solve your problem but consider this possible scenario:

If the alternator isn't charging the battery properly (or not at all) this very same scenario could happen. After sitting for a while, the battery "recovers" enough charge to crank on its on. After starting, it immediately begins discharging due to the alternator malfunction. If you had not stalled the motor when you did (right after it started) it would have quit on you as soon as the voltage dropped too low to power the fuel pump. But you did stall it, luckily for you, in your driveway I suppose. The voltage was too low at that point to re-start it but was sufficient to pump fuel. For a little while. Before spending $$ on a new battery, I would confirm proper operation of the charging circuit.

How to do this? Crank the motor, then measure the voltage at the battery terminals while it's running. It should read around 13.5 at least--continuously. Try turning on some stuff to place a larger load on it--it should still maintain the 13.5 or so. If instead, it's reading less than 13v and slowly dropping, the charging circuit is malfunctioning.

 

Hope its just your battery, i.e an intermittent cell!

[ed may]

Thanks guys, I did check the charging voltage and it was 13.8 at idle. I will double check it with loads.

[bobbybob]

13.8 is dead on the money---leaning toward an intermittent battery cell now. Or poor connection. OR---MAYBE its just one of those freakin' BMW "Canbus Moments".....

 

(bad side-stand disconnect sensor?) Try moving the sidestand up and down in different positions while trying to crank bike, just to see if you can induce a non-start in the up position while in gear. (on the center stand of course).

[ed may]

I played with the kickstand that morning and it didn't seem to help. I do think it was some sort of glitch. Or,those jumper cables may have had a bad connection, and a third start in about 3 minutes on a 25 degree morning may have challenged that battery. That 9 something cranking voltage after on the tender all day was not a good sign. I just hope it never happens again. I WILL buy an odyssey.

[10ovr]

1,,Install new battery,,2,,start bike and ride..

[tallman]

Ditto.

 

Ref tenders, an old trickle charger could casue problems for a battery.

The newer smart chargers won't.

Put it on the tender and relax.