DaveTheAffable Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 Hello friends... Personal tragedies over the last 12 months, and they're not all done. But... the "Blue Beast" has sat idle for toooo long. I'm putting together a parts list, and have enlisted the services of a competent friend to help. Previously Tony K and some others (Go Coffee Moto Dudes!) bent over backwards offering to help, and I just couldn't get it to all come together. Moving forward now... and will take any input / advice you have. I'm also drawing info from K-Bikes (cause...those guys know K-Bikes) Happy New Year a little late.... Affably, Dave Link to comment
10ovr Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 Don't try and get by with out a clutch slave cylinder ,It well bite you in the A$$,,and get all new seals for the trans,If you need the special tools to install the pivot pin on the swing arm and the plate for holding the clutch from turning,,Let me know,I also made a stand for holding up the bike wail you work on it,Works great,,Send AZ AL a pm,,We gust did his bike and Jerry M ( the beaver ) last year,,They can tell you what to get and where to get it,,, I can UPS you the tools and stand and you can send them back when you are done,,,,,,Life is good when you have the right tools,,, Link to comment
JerryMather Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 Plan on replacing the whole clutch, clutch slave, and seals in the trans. K- Bikes have posts with a complete list of parts you'll need. Al has a list also and is a good reference. Let me know when you do this and I'll give you a hand if I'm available. Jerry. Jrmduc@yahoo.com Link to comment
10ovr Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 Plan on replacing the whole clutch, clutch slave, and seals in the trans. K- Bikes have posts with a complete list of parts you'll need. Al has a list also and is a good reference. Let me know when you do this and I'll give you a hand if I'm available. Jerry. Jrmduc@yahoo.com :wave:long time no see buddy,,You going to the Un Ralley????(end of hijack) Link to comment
DaveTheAffable Posted January 25, 2010 Author Share Posted January 25, 2010 I'm thinking about the Un.... Quick trip up the 395. VERY tempting, especially if repairs get completed. Link to comment
10ovr Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 Jerry has the tools needed to,,If you need any thing PM me ,,Tim Link to comment
Troy Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 I'll be doing the same thing come mid February. 2nd time I've had to replace the rear main. I bought the bike knowing it probably would need to be done. At 35K miles I started getting the tell tell oil weeping and the clutch started to slip soon after. It is a big job (read PITA) but not overly complicated. My biggest problem the first time was making the special socket for the pivot pin but sounds like you've got that covered. The fist time around I did not plan on replacing the clutch slave but found it was needed. Clutch slave leaking caused me to replace the transmission seals as well. 1200 miles later the transmission failed (wouldn't shift out of 5th gear, unrelated to seals) and I had to tear down the bike again. 6 months later the motor threw a rod ( :mad:) and I replaced the motor with one I picked up on ebay. The bike has nearly 90K miles on it now and this will be the 4th time I tear it down so if you need any info or guidance let me know. Take your time and enjoy the experience. There is a lot of beautiful engineering buried in there. I just wish it were more accessible. Link to comment
Dennis Andress Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 ... 6 months later the motor threw a rod ( :mad:) ... Wow, I'm not the only person who's gone through that... Link to comment
Troy Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 ... 6 months later the motor threw a rod ( :mad:) ... Wow, I'm not the only person who's gone through that... Yeah, I remember when you posted pictures... about the same time mine happened. I didn't have a service contract though and was out more than a little pocket change. Link to comment
Dennis Andress Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 ... 6 months later the motor threw a rod ( :mad:) ... Wow, I'm not the only person who's gone through that... Yeah, I remember when you posted pictures... about the same time mine happened. I didn't have a service contract though and was out more than a little pocket change. From memory: The EW company put out $7300 and I added around $2100. The total was probable more then the bike was worth at the time. A lot of stupid things happened to the bike while it was at the dealers. The threads of one of the swingarm pivots froze so they cut the swingarm and billed the EW for a new one. (That's a good reason not to use an air impact wrench.) And, the oil light flickered when the new engine was first started. That's when they decided it needed a new oil pump. Link to comment
DaveTheAffable Posted February 12, 2010 Author Share Posted February 12, 2010 Ok... Money set aside. Parts list growing. PM's to Jerry and AZ Al sent. Will order parts next week. Thanks all.... Link to comment
DaveTheAffable Posted February 17, 2010 Author Share Posted February 17, 2010 The date is set... Saturday, April 3rd. Anaheim in a friends garage. I'll prolly do some prep work earlier in the week, with the goal being that the rear main, clutch, slave, and trans seals will be done at the end of the day. Parts to be ordered this week. Thanks to Jerry Mather, AZ Al, and 10 Ovr for pm's and advice. Link to comment
DaveTheAffable Posted April 5, 2010 Author Share Posted April 5, 2010 The deed is done... Special thanks to: - Jerry Mather (tool loan), 10 Ovr, and AZ Al for advice. - Long Beach BMW for parts and guidance.. THANKS DEWEY! - The "Guys" from from SCG Motorcycles - Lance Woods for his 2 car garage - Bruce Wheeler and Steve Haas for wrenching... THANK YOU! - George, Eric, Ray, and others for moral support - BMWST's own "Couchrocket"... friendship, pastries, and photos Your the best Scott. - Others I'm sure We did a little prep work last Thursday night, and then "dug in" on Saturday morning at 830 am. Seals and all "hard" work is done. We only planned on going to 3pm because folks had Easter weekend plans Saturday evening. We'll finish the last little bit (shock, battery box, bleed clutch) this Wednesday eve. Here's a few pics... DaveTheAffable (me) supervises from the rear in black bb cap, while Bruce (left frame side) and Steve (right frame side) wrench. The did 90% of the work. THANKS GUYS! The rear main o-ring and seal are behind that nut in the middle. This job can be done... but you need advice and experienced wrenches. Fall Torrey is now at least a possibility for me! Link to comment
DaveTheAffable Posted April 6, 2010 Author Share Posted April 6, 2010 :clap: So... when is the next Tuesday Night Moto Coffee? Link to comment
Jeepster Posted April 6, 2010 Share Posted April 6, 2010 :clap: So... when is the next Tuesday Night Moto Coffee? Second Tuesday of the month. April 13th is the next. It will be great to see ya again. Link to comment
DaveTheAffable Posted April 9, 2010 Author Share Posted April 9, 2010 The deed is done... This job can be done... but you need advice and experienced wrenches. Fall Torrey is now at least a possibility for me! Well...not quite yet.... HELP! Put everything back together. Clutch...solid. Brakes...Solid. New left side switch gear and cruise control...Check. It runs HORRIBLE. Barely. Yes, I've rolled throttle to set TPS. This is WAY bad. Sputters... pops... won't maintain idle, If I wiggle it up to 2k ro 3k rpm it will keep going... a little. Gas lines are all correct, fuel in tank. O2 sensor hooked up. I moved the engine a little during the job while trans and back end was off bike. It has been suggested that maybe I seperated one or more rubber couples between airbox and throttle boddies, or between throttle bodies and intake mainifold. I cant SEE any thing out of place. Suggestions? Link to comment
tallman Posted April 9, 2010 Share Posted April 9, 2010 Did you replace the fuel filter while it was apart? Link to comment
DaveTheAffable Posted April 10, 2010 Author Share Posted April 10, 2010 Did you replace the fuel filter while it was apart? No...but it was replaced fairly recently. So...no fuel supply hoses were changed/moved. Link to comment
tallman Posted April 10, 2010 Share Posted April 10, 2010 The only time mine has done that was invovling temperature changes and pressure differential wrt gas tank/lines. If I opened the gas filler cap I'd get the whoosh and it would run OK. Don't think this sounds like yours and if you've checked fuel routing and connections (quick release seated correctly?) I'm gonna let Twisty fix this one. Link to comment
Dennis Andress Posted April 11, 2010 Share Posted April 11, 2010 Fuel, Air, Spark... Double check all spark plug wires and electrical connectors. Could you have forgotten a ground terminal? If the engine might moved up, it might have harmed the TPS. Look for cracks or scrapes on the top of the TPS. Check that all for throttle bodies are seated correctly in the intake tubes that lead to the cylinder head. Wiggle the throttle bodies looking for cracks in the tubes. Use a flashlight to inspect the crankcase breather hose. You'll probably need to take the tank off for this. It runs from the top of the right side of the engine, near where the fuel quick disconnects are to the inside of the throttle bodies. Part of this is a unique tube that runs to all four throttle bodies which is easily torn. Look for pinched or damaged wiring. The easiest way to get an FI system to run rich is to short something to ground, or to another wire. (There's a story to go with that...) Dennis Link to comment
DaveTheAffable Posted April 16, 2010 Author Share Posted April 16, 2010 Fuel, Air, Spark... Double check all spark plug wires and electrical connectors. Could you have forgotten a ground terminal? If the engine might moved up, it might have harmed the TPS. Look for cracks or scrapes on the top of the TPS. Check that all for throttle bodies are seated correctly in the intake tubes that lead to the cylinder head. Wiggle the throttle bodies looking for cracks in the tubes. Use a flashlight to inspect the crankcase breather hose. You'll probably need to take the tank off for this. It runs from the top of the right side of the engine, near where the fuel quick disconnects are to the inside of the throttle bodies. Part of this is a unique tube that runs to all four throttle bodies which is easily torn. Look for pinched or damaged wiring. The easiest way to get an FI system to run rich is to short something to ground, or to another wire. (There's a story to go with that...) Dennis Thanks Dennis... Still no luck. Spark is good, fuel pressure good, throttle bodies seated (checked with propane), Wiring checked, grounds checked... Seems as though it is a TPS problem. If I advance throttle VERY slowly, it runs, and rpm increases. But any thing other than creeping throttle movement causes it to surge, bog, die, etc. Searching for a mechanic now. Wish me luck! Link to comment
tallman Posted April 16, 2010 Share Posted April 16, 2010 Dave, I know this is obvious, but, fuel is good, right? Does it run like that after it is warmed up? Was your ECU done w/the recall back in the day? Sorry if this is not helpful, just wondering. Good luck. Link to comment
DaveTheAffable Posted April 16, 2010 Author Share Posted April 16, 2010 Dave, I know this is obvious, but, fuel is good, right? Does it run like that after it is warmed up? Was your ECU done w/the recall back in the day? Sorry if this is not helpful, just wondering. Good luck. At this point... nothing is obvious. It's a 2002 and I bought it from a dealer in 2007(?)and have put over 30000 miles on it. NEVER any driveability, misses, stalls, balks. I have been very happy with engine performance. I don't know if this model had/recieved work related to the ECU. As it warms up it gets only slightly better... still unrideable. When I drove it down to the place we did the rear main seal it ran SUPER... except the clutch was slipping. Before I replaced that seal and clutch, this bike ran GOOD. When I left and tried to drive home, it still had 1/4 tank of same gas I drove down on. I've since added some more so it's about 3/4 tank. We checked pressure last night, hoses, breathers, etc last night. If you find a "Sweet Spot", it'll sit there and run 4000 rpm... but a little "missy", but not fuel starved. We directed propane in and arround throttle boddy couplers to dry and detect leaks. Nada. We put a set of mercury sticks on it, and all 4 bodies were pretty darn close. We also checked/pulled the plugs, and plug wires. Plugs aren't new, but they're the ones I drove down on and they looked ok. I'm going to replace them and the plug wires anyway just to eliminate those questions. We also disconnected the battery, and touched the two battery cables together end to end. I might try that again and make sure I did it key on and key off for more than just a few seconds. We then went thru the slow throttle roll on/off to try and reset/align the TPS. I've been tempted to sell it or trade it in, but I really like this bike. I put Ohlins on it last year, new PR2 tires, A Sergeant Seat the year before. And now that I/we did this rear main seal and clutch, dog gone it, I want to get it fixed and put some miles on it this summer! Thanks to all! Link to comment
Dennis Andress Posted April 16, 2010 Share Posted April 16, 2010 Okay, this is a long distance wild ass guess.... K bikes run like crap if their crankcase vent tubing is open to the atmosphere. On the K12 this consists of a soft rubber manifold like tube that connects to the back side of all four throttle bodies. It tears easily. It connects to formed rubber hose which runs across the top of the engine to connect to the crankcase on the right side. You might be able to inspect this tubing by shinning a flashlight past the front shock and looking down the top of the engine. Everything below is void if this tubing is not right. From your description, the problem sounds like carburation -- in the fuel injection sense. It could be a damaged TPS, which is easy to check. There are four electrical pins on the bottom of the TPS. They work in pairs, the two most outboard will give on ohmmeter reading of something like 8.5K ohms when the throttle is closed, and decrease to less then 2K when it is wide open. The two inboard pins do the opposite, less then 2K when the throttle is closed and a high value when wide open. Measuring across each pair, slowly open and close the throttle while looking for a steady and smooth change in the ohmmeter reading. Any jumps, jerks, or flat spots are an indication of a TPS problem. It can be taken off and cleaned, but you have to take the throttle bodies off. To adjust the TPS: Loosen the two screws attaching the TPS to the throttle bodies. (Again, you have to take the throttle bodies off...) Measure across the two inboard pins and slowly move the TPS until the reading is below 1500 ohms, or as close to it as possible. This probably isn't BMW's way of doing it, but the each of the four or five times I did it this way produced a nice steady idle of 1100 RPM. There is a nearly new, cleaned, TPS on Laney's workbench that doesn't have a home.... I once sprayed starter fluid on the intake tubes of Laney's bike to check for vacuum leaks. It didn't find any. A few weeks later we took the throttle bodies and intake tubes off anyway and found that the o'rings on the head were leaking. Since then I've felt the only way to check these parts for leaks is to take them apart and visually look for problems. The test you did with the mercury sticks is valid, but did they stay the same as you opened the throttles? (It's rare that they do...) The bike ran great before you took it apart. Something you did changed that. TPS problems are usually centered around a range of throttle movement, outside of which the engine will run fine. Damaged wiring, or a damaged sensor would be the next place to look. Try disconnecting the O2 sensor, engine temp sensor, air intake sensor one by one to see if your problem changes. Try moving, squeezing, shoving, and pulling on every wire bundle you can reach while the engine is running to see if it changes. It would be wise to reset the computer in between all of this disconnecting of things. The easiest way to do that is to pull the top left fuse out for 30 seconds or so. Good luck, and step away from the For Sale sign... Link to comment
tallman Posted April 16, 2010 Share Posted April 16, 2010 Ditto the it was running fine before so sumptin happened during dis/reassembly IMO. I think Dennis is in the right area. You'll find it. Start from X and move through one thing at a time. Good luck. Link to comment
DaveTheAffable Posted April 21, 2010 Author Share Posted April 21, 2010 Well... I'm tired. I've fiddled and fooled. It's just not my area of comfort...and running out of time. I have a ride scheduled for May 22nd. I'm now in search of a mechanic I can take the bike to. See my questions in "Riders Discuss Other Topics". THANKS FOR ALL YOUR HELP! Jerry... I have your specialty tools. They worked great. Link to comment
DaveTheAffable Posted May 7, 2010 Author Share Posted May 7, 2010 Finally. It was: O2 sensor.... Temp Sensor... AND... a hairline crack in one of the "inside the tank" fuel hoses that was pressure sensitive, causing a surging effect. The pressure was going up and down. THe short piece of hose was replaced, surging went away. Wow. I pick up the "Blue Beast" tomorrow. Maybe Coffee Moto Tuesday Night!! Maybe Torrey in the Fall!! Maybe I should return Jerry's tools!! Link to comment
tallman Posted May 7, 2010 Share Posted May 7, 2010 Great news. I knew it would be sumptin simple. Link to comment
Jeepster Posted May 7, 2010 Share Posted May 7, 2010 Great news. I knew it would be sumptin simple. +1 Link to comment
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