Headlight stays on occasionally, replaced relay, no effect.

[KDeline]

What else could it be? After shutting down the bike (R1100RT 98) headlight and dash lights stay on. I have a OEM light switch so I can shut it off that way, but if I pull the black relay closest to the side stand side it shuts off to, put back in and it works for a while. I thought the relay was the problem but it is still doing it with a new one, and it only happens about once a week. So far I have seen it when it happens but I know I will not one day and come back to a dead battery. Thoughts?

[T__]

KDeline, pretty difficult to tell much over the internet..

 

It doesn’t really sound like a relay problem (but with electrical feedback from something that failed anything is possible)..

 

It sounds more like an ignition switch failing but when it comes to a non typical failure like you have about all a person can do is start diagnosing the system when it is in the failed mode..

 

Maybe try wiggling the ign key & slightly turning the key in the switch next time it happens..

 

Do you have any added accessories that could be causing a sneak circuit that keeping the light circuit energized?

 

Twisty

 

[Ken H.]

You’re on the right track, that relay is the load relief relay that shuts down power to including the headlamp during starter cranking.

 

The relay is kept closed (lights on) by 12v applied to the relay’s coil at connector pin 10 and its ground at pin 8 through the starter. Pin 10’s voltage comes through the ignition switch at the switch’s connector pin 3.

 

However when the starter has 12v to it during crank, then the voltage at the relay’s pin 8 goes to 12v, the difference across the load relay’s coil is 0 (12 minus 12), and the relay drops out.

 

So there are two possibilities if it’s not the relay itself that is sticking – 12v is present on pin 10 of the relay connector when the ignition switch is off, or the ground to pin 8 is going high. The former could be a bad ignition switch; the latter is possibly a bad starter relay, sticking a bit but not enough to crank the starter.

 

Unfortunately this is going to take so basic tracing with a voltmeter to find.

[NonComp]

Next time it happens, reach up under the fairing on the left side and wiggle the bundle of wires that wraps around the the steering head. This bundle runs from the ignition switch. These wires can get bare spots (broken insulators) from stretching and could short out. I found two wires with gaps in the insulation (one broken) on my '96 r1100r recently.

[KDeline]

all a person can do is start diagnosing the system when it is in the failed mode..

 

 

 

 

 

Twisty

 

 

That's part of the problem, it won't stay failed. I'm giong to move bundles of wires around before I pull the relay when it happens again.

[KDeline]

You’re on the right track, that relay is the load relief relay that shuts down power to including the headlamp during starter cranking.

 

The relay is kept closed (lights on) by 12v applied to the relay’s coil at connector pin 10 and its ground at pin 8 through the starter. Pin 10’s voltage comes through the ignition switch at the switch’s connector pin 3.

 

However when the starter has 12v to it during crank, then the voltage at the relay’s pin 8 goes to 12v, the difference across the load relay’s coil is 0 (12 minus 12), and the relay drops out.

 

So there are two possibilities if it’s not the relay itself that is sticking – 12v is present on pin 10 of the relay connector when the ignition switch is off, or the ground to pin 8 is going high. The former could be a bad ignition switch; the latter is possibly a bad starter relay, sticking a bit but not enough to crank the starter.

 

Unfortunately this is going to take so basic tracing with a voltmeter to find.

 

 

 

 

Yea, that's what I was going to check next....... How the heck do you know this stuff?

[Ken H.]

How the heck do you know this stuff?

Oh I'm a geek/nurd from waaaaay back.

[SAAB93driver]

Next time it happens, reach up under the fairing on the left side and wiggle the bundle of wires that wraps around the the steering head. This bundle runs from the ignition switch. These wires can get bare spots (broken insulators) from stretching and could short out. I found two wires with gaps in the insulation (one broken) on my '96 r1100r recently.

 

slightly OT but you might want to check with your dealer, there was a recall or TSB in the mid 90's about to address the wiring harness at the steering head issue as I had it performed on my R850R when it started acting up (turn the bars and different lights would go on or off).

[NonComp]

That sounds a lot like my issue. The wire harness was cynched too tight, leading to stretching and breakage of the individual wires. My problem manifested itself as random stalling when cold, for several months before it happened regularly enough that I figured out the problem (turn the handlebars = stall the engine). Itermittent momentary interruption manifested itself as ABS reset.

[TonyS]

What else could it be? After shutting down the bike (R1100RT 98) headlight and dash lights stay on. I have a OEM light switch so I can shut it off that way, but if I pull the black relay closest to the side stand side it shuts off to, put back in and it works for a while. I thought the relay was the problem but it is still doing it with a new one, and it only happens about once a week. So far I have seen it when it happens but I know I will not one day and come back to a dead battery. Thoughts?

 

I assume when you say "after shutting down" you mean turning off the key. The wires along the head shouldn't be live once the key is turned off. A friend's K bike had the same problem, lights stayed on when the key was off. We were in Death Valley camping. He had to leave the key in the bike and turned on for the lights to go off. The problem was an issue with the starter solenoid.

[NonComp]

I assume when you say "after shutting down" you mean turning off the key. The wires along the head shouldn't be live once the key is turned off.

The key switch has to have at least one 'live' wire to it in order to work. We are talking about the bundle of wires that run to the key switch. There is a possibility that the live wire and one other wire could short together in this bundle.

[Ken H.]

The problem was an issue with the starter solenoid.

That’s a possibility because, as mentioned above, the ground for the load relief relay is through the starter.

[Ken H.]

There is a possibility that the live wire and one other wire could short together in this bundle.

That's also a possiblity if two wires together are causing 12v to the load relief relay with the switch off. But it would be unique that just the right two happened to both chaff and get together. Not impossible though.

 

A bad ignition switch itself is also a possiblity.

 

Really the most common cause by far of this is a bad load relief relay, but Ken D. says he has already replaced that...

[OlGeezer]

Next time it happens, reach up under the fairing on the left side and wiggle the bundle of wires that wraps around the the steering head. This bundle runs from the ignition switch. These wires can get bare spots (broken insulators) from stretching and could short out. I found two wires with gaps in the insulation (one broken) on my '96 r1100r recently.

 

DAMHIK

[NonComp]

P.S. You can buy the wiring harness that runs from the key/switch from MotoBins in the UK. There is a method of changing this out without having to remove the key/switch or completely disassembling the front end. I have my new wire set and it is on my to-do list!

 

P.S.2 My wires broke right up at the base of the switch, so there is no way I can repair them in situ.

[ESokoloff]

 

P.S.2 My wires broke right up at the base of the switch, so there is no way I can repair them in situ.

 

I repaired the main (red) wire by replacing the first few inchs or so on my 03RT but I had to dissassemble the switch.

[TonyS]

P.S. You can buy the wiring harness that runs from the key/switch from MotoBins in the UK. There is a method of changing this out without having to remove the key/switch or completely disassembling the front end. I have my new wire set and it is on my to-do list!

 

P.S.2 My wires broke right up at the base of the switch, so there is no way I can repair them in situ.

 

I had to replace the ignition switch on my 1150. The bike died once, but the clock and dash lights stayed on when the key was on. I turned the key off and on a couple of times and the bike restarted. The issue did not return for several months, but when it did the bike was dead, no second chance. Replacing the switch was relatively simple as the switch is held into the keyed portion of the ignition by a single set screw. Turn the handlebars all the way right, clean out the plug of sealant over the set screw, loosen the screw, and the electrical portion of the switch pulls out. The other ends of the wires are all gathered in a single plug that connects to a receptacle behind the left side of the dashboard. I know the left side fairing came off, but I don't recall removing the dashboard. If I did (which I've done before) it was easy enough that it did not stick in my fading memory as a nuisance. But, if I read the original post correctly the problem is not the bike dying while underway, but that the headlight stays on when the key is turned off. Is this correct?

[Kouros]

I have had the exact issue you described. Simply:

 

Lights stay on after the bike is shut down.

 

I have found no solution except to quickly disconnect the battery and reconnect.

 

I have not come across this problem with topperware on. It was during my "go over" when I bought this 2003 RT-P. I was starting and shutting down a few times for mechanical reasons. But I knew that I also had a battery that was not holding charge and I had just finished exchanging the ignition coil too.

 

So you are not alone, and I have no real solution.