Engine just stopped

[rolandj727]

I was riding along on 85 south in Silicon Valley yesterday and my engine just stopped. No sputtering or any signs of problems before it quite. At first I thought I had hit the kill switch, but that was not the problem. It has gas and I didn't see a blown fuse.

 

Two years ago I took the fuel filter out of the gas tank and put it on the side under the right little cover. I did have the gas tank lifted to replace some the fuel hose a couple of days ago. Maybe a connected slipped?

 

Any one with ideas on potential problems before I dive into it later today?

 

Roland

[GordonB]

Side stand switch? Will it start while in Nuetral with clutch pulled in?

[NonComp]

Smell of fuel? Vaccuum in the tank (open the filler)? I take it that it did not restart? Rain day, or just pressure-washed the bike?

[T__]

Roland, as mentioned above possibly the side stand switch would be near the top of the list..

 

With the tank being messed with lately the pump wire harness connector would also be suspect.. (can you hear the pump run for a few seconds when you first key up?)

 

Maybe not fuel related at all, if this is on your 1100 - possibly a HES dropping the crank signal to the injection or ignition.. Any tac or RID abnormalities?..

 

 

Quickest thing to do is check for pump running at key on..

 

Then check for spark..

 

Then pull a fuel injector & check fro fuel spray while cranking..

 

ARE YOU OUT OF GAS?

 

 

Twisty

 

[upflying]

Mine did the exact same thing a few years ago. It was a bad HES.

[outpost22]

Mine did the exact same thing a few years ago. It was a bad HES.

 

Ditto here. Check the easy stuff (mentioned above) first though.

[ozmojo]

I've got to chime in on this one. Check your Q.D.s You may have jostled a fuel line to disconnect which will make it quit just like you lost spark. It just happened to me in Nov. and thanks to this board the cause and effect was found. In my case the Q.D. seperated and the rapid pressure increase caused a fuel line in the tank to come off the filter. My two cents. Good luck.

[TonyS]

What dash light did you have on when it quit, if any? When my 04 suddenly stopped it was the ignition switch. Others have have a wire break inside the insulation just below the switch where they were zipped tied to tightly to the frame.

[Jim Moore]

My bets. Loose or split fuel line in the tank, or the HES.

[wonderdog]

mine did same thing after dealer put tank back on. connection for pump is very hard to CLICK to lock, mine was still connected but not locked tight, fixed by making sure the tabs locked cured problem.

[notacop]

My HES was the culprit on my 2001RTP even though it seemed OK on a static check. Some one here was rebuilding them a while back.

[rolandj727]

I been busy but tomorrow I will work on it and report to the board my findings.

 

Thanks to all for the advice.

 

R

[rolandj727]

Side stand switch? Will it start while in Nuetral with clutch pulled in?

 

No this doesn't work

[rolandj727]

Smell of fuel? Vaccuum in the tank (open the filler)? I take it that it did not restart? Rain day, or just pressure-washed the bike?

 

No rain or washing for a week or so before the ride

[rolandj727]

I've got to chime in on this one. Check your Q.D.s You may have jostled a fuel line to disconnect which will make it quit just like you lost spark. It just happened to me in Nov. and thanks to this board the cause and effect was found. In my case the Q.D. seperated and the rapid pressure increase caused a fuel line in the tank to come off the filter. My two cents. Good luck.

 

I took the tank off and the out side lines are connected. Tomorrow I will open the tank and check the inside fuel lines around the fuel pump.

[rolandj727]

What dash light did you have on when it quit, if any? When my 04 suddenly stopped it was the ignition switch. Others have have a wire break inside the insulation just below the switch where they were zipped tied to tightly to the frame.

 

 

No lights were on or can on. I just started coasting.

 

After checking lines I will look at the ignition switch.

[rolandj727]

My HES was the culprit on my 2001RTP even though it seemed OK on a static check. Some one here was rebuilding them a while back.

 

 

What is the HES?

[NonComp]

HES is the Hall Effects Sensor. It is located behind the large pulley on the front end of the crank shaft. It controls the spark plug ignition timing. The insulation on the wires gets brittle from the heat, and then they fail when the wires short out, often during a heavy rain. They can be rewired with heat-proof wire or replaced.

[Tom R.]

My '03 RT did the same last year. The fuel pump went from working fine to not at all with no warning symptoms.

 

As previously advised, in a quiet place, listen for the pump to pressurize the system when you first turn the key on.

 

If you want OEM parts, try here; http://www.webparts.com/ (no affiliation, just good service and price.)

[NonComp]

I had similar symptoms on my roadster and am just getting around to repairing it. The problem is a broken wire in the bundle that runs from the ignition key switch to a socket under the tank. It wraps around the steering head and a break in the bundle is not uncommon. The symptoms included engine stall like the key was turned off and no lights on the control panel at all. It can be diagnosed with the bike on the center stand, key on, reach up on the left side of the bike and wiggle the wire bundle that wraps around the steering head.

[rolandj727]

I think I forget to mention that my '98 110RT has 60K miles.

 

Before I took the tank off I turned the key on and tried to start it. All the rights came on, ABS was clicking, clutch in, side stand up and it cranked well, but no fire. I did not hear the fuel pump but I can't ever remember hearing it. At 58 maybe I need a hearing aid? Maybe I already have one but I just can't remember?

 

With all the lights working I am thinking it is not the HES.

 

I took the tank off and the connect lines to tank were fine. Fuel filter ( which is out side tank) seemed fine too as it leaked fuel and looked clean in side. ( It is not that old, 5K at most)

 

Tomorrow I will open fuel pump "door" the side of the tank to check the connections. I am hoping my problem is only a loose connection on the pump.

 

How can I test the fuel pump if the lines are ok?

 

[flars]

The lights will behave normally at key-on if it is the HES. If all the lights and the RID went off when the bike quit, then it isn't the HES or the fuel pump. It has to be either the kill switch (not sure if the RID will come on if the kill switch is bad) or a break in the wire near the ignition switch.

But if the RID and other lights are working but the bike won't start:

1. the fuel pump must run when the key is turned on - if it isn't running, you have either a bad fuel pump or a bad fuel pump electrical connection.

2.To test the pump, you will have to pull the fuel line loose, put it in a bucket and turn on the switch - fuel should gush out. 3. If you get a gusher at key on, reconnect the hose, and try pullng one of the injectors, pointing it into a bucket and try to start the bike. You should get a nice fine spray out of both injectors.

 

[T__]

rolandj727, you will ONLY hear the fuel pump run for about 3 seconds at first key on (open the filler cap to listen)..

 

Have you checked for spark? That is the easiest to do quickly & no use messing with the fuel system yet if you don’t have any spark..

 

If can’t find something simple no need to guess at things,, just work your way through a simple testing procedure..

 

--Key on—listen for fuel pump to run for about 3 seconds (yes or no?)

 

--Pop an old (known good) spark plug into a plug wire & lay on the cyl head then crank engine over,, plug doesn’t have to be for that bike (any good plug will do) (do you have a bluish colored snappy spark? (yes or no?)

 

--Next, check the # 6 fuse in the fuse box (good or bad?)

 

--Then pull a fuel pressure hose the at the filter & key on check for fuel flow (pencil sized stream for about 3 seconds) --- (yes or no?)

 

--Let the above test fuel sit for an hour or so in a clear glass or bottle (do you see water in the bottom of the jar- (yes or no?)

 

--If you have all the above then pop a fuel injector out (leave attached to the fuel line),, place the injector end in a small bottle or plastic jar,, then crank engine over (do you have a fuel spray during cranking?)

 

Any no’s in the above check out that part of your system (except water in the fuel or blown fuse)

 

Twisty

 

[rolandj727]

I took the gas tank off, emptied it, opened the fuel pump port and the answer is---- a fuel line had come off the fuel pump.

 

When I first took the fuel pump assembly out I didn't see any problems. Dark thoughts were going through my head. The missing hose was on the opposite side from me. After staring at it for I few minutes I suddenly released that a hose should be connect to the bronze looking connector. Fishing in the fuel pump hole, I found a loose hose just lying there. The connection clamp was still tight, but had slipped off the bronze connection point.

 

So the case is solved with the simplyist solution.

 

I think I know the cause of the problem. Remember, that I took the fuel filter out of the tank and place it under the Tupperware cover just behind the drivers seat. I think that when I replaced the fuel hose, with a better class of fuel hos, I made one of the turns to tight which might have caused to much back pressure which forced the connector of the fuel pump.

 

I think I had better take a look at the electric lines connected the HES which the bike is stripped down. Any guidance on this procedure?

[ShovelStrokeEd]

Hang on a second. If the fuel hose came off and the clamp was tight, you may have a clogged or partially clogged fuel filter causing abnormally high pressure in the line from the pump to the filter. Before putting it all back together, I would replace that filter. Just cause it looks clean and leaks a bit when you loosen the clamps doesn't mean it is flowing correctly.

[NonComp]

The OP mentioned that the fuel filter has been relocated outside the tank and has only about 5k miles on it.

[onenun]

From experience I would look to the HES. Mine went out at 92k but yours could be an early bird. The HES has a lot of different failure signals but be confident that it will go bad. It's almost periodic maintenence on older RT's. Replace it( prices are all over the place on the internet)and be secure in the fact that it , at least won't be a problem in the future.

[ShovelStrokeEd]

The OP mentioned that the fuel filter has been relocated outside the tank and has only about 5k miles on it.

 

Doesn't matter, a couple of tbs of water will clog it badly enough to require ultra high pressures from the fuel pump. Water will NOT pass through the filter. Since the fuel pressure is regulated down stream of the filter, the pump will produce whatever pressure is needed to get that pressure downstream. I have seen pressures in excess of 100 PSI at the inlet to the filter.

[rolandj727]

As I getting ready to reassemble the fuel system, I was wondering if I could put a valve in the fuel line just before the filter. The goal being to make draining the tank easier the next time I need to take it off.

 

At the hardware store, I saw a gas line value (for natural gas) and fitting that might work. Then I started thinking about the fuel line pressure. I am not sure of the normal fuel pressure but I seem to remember on some cars it is some thing like 1-2 Bar or 40 psi. Above Shovel Shoke Ed says that it can reach 100 psi. The value I saw is bronze in color and appears quite heavy however, on examination of the tag it is only rated for 5 psi, which does not seem like much for such a heavy looking valve.

 

Any opinions on fuel value concept?. How do other drain their tanks?

 

[NonComp]

How do other drain their tanks?

I bought a marine outboard replacement fuel line with squeeze bulb primer in the middle of it. Place one end in the tank, and the other in a gas can. Squeeze the bulb and the fuel tank is empty in no time. All components are made for handling gasoline, so no issues.

[rolandj727]

I reconnected the loose fuel line, put the tank on, added some gas. When I tried to start the engine it just cranked. I heard the fuel pump start and the system pressurized. I loosed a fuel line and fuel shot out.

 

It don't seem to fire. Oh, note I did replace the spark plug wires. I took the wire off the plug and let it just hang but didn't hear or see any spark. I then put a screw drive into spark plug housing and again no sound or evidence of firing.

 

Ideas?

[T__]

rolandj727, you don’t have the kick stand down do you?

 

Otherwise put a known good spark plug in the plug wire & lay it on the engine or chassis then crank it over & make sure (positively) if it does or doesn’t have a spark.. Also make sure the other side plug wire is either hooked up or grounded..

 

If no spark check for 12 volts at the coil primary power wire (key on) & if power TO the coil verify the Motornic side of the coil is hooked up properly..

 

If all OK there the look into the HES problem or a wire connector knocked loose..

 

Twisty