BMW 6 cyl

[T__]

Watch out GoldWing BMW is coming up your 6..

This has probably been posted here before but not sure if a picture was included..

 

 

BMW's Concept 6 powertrain, showing the new compact 1.6-L inline six engine and shaft final drive. The twin mufflers shown are production-type units; their designs differ from those on the Milan show bike.

 

 

 

 

Twisty

[UberXY]

Should be cool. BMW builds the best six cylinder car engines.

[dhanson]

We questioned the rep, he said it is only a concept has not been designed at this point.

[beemerman2k]

I have always admired BMW engines, it's their drivetrains that give me pause. This new dual-cam Hex-Head is nice, but I would rather have seen them come out with a truly solid drivetrain scheme that rivals what you get with a Honda or a Yamaha.

 

OK, so now that sweet 6 with all the added horsepower will be wrangling on the input shaft, drive shaft, and final drive. How far do you think you'll get before stuff starts falling apart with this configuration?

 

Not to be a kill-joy because I think this 6 is SWEET! I just want them to make the drive train equally as robust.

[NonComp]

A CBX with a driveshaft. Cool. Would not want to pay the spring tuneup bill on that puppy, though.

[T__]

We questioned the rep, he said it is only a concept has not been designed at this point.

 

From my SAE newsletter--

 

Quote:

 

"At the 2009 EICMA Show in Milan, BMW Motorrad surprised the industry with its Concept 6 motorcycle, the name denoting the engine’s cylinder count. The impressive prototype is a glimpse at BMW’s next-generation super-sports touring machine, which BMW officials admitted is headed for production".

 

 

 

Twisty

 

 

[99Roadster]

I wonder what the final drive will look like.

 

 

running for cover...

[NonComp]

I wonder what the final drive will look like.

I think that it is in the picture. The wheel mounts on the opposite side, like a VFR.

[SageRider]

I wonder what the final drive will look like.

 

 

running for cover...

 

Debris...

[russell_bynum]

I wonder what the final drive will look like.

 

 

running for cover...

 

Debris...

 

LOL!!!

[OoPEZoO]

A CBX with a driveshaft. Cool. Would not want to pay the spring tuneup bill on that puppy, though.

 

If its anything like their automotive 6-cylinder engines it shouldn't be bad. Self adjusting hydraulic valves and one single throttle body with 6 intake runners. I'm curious to see if they stick with a throttle cable or throttle by wire. If they do it right.......then the motors should be able to go 100K+ miles before you have to do anything other than spark plugs and oil changes. And honestly, the spark plugs should last that long as well.

 

I am really curious to see more details about this engine.

[outpost22]

A CBX with a driveshaft. Cool. Would not want to pay the spring tuneup bill on that puppy, though.

 

Don't worry. It will never accumulate enough miles to have a spring tune-up (with the final drive in pieces all over the highway...)

[cali_beemer]

but I would rather have seen them come out with a truly solid drivetrain scheme that rivals what you get with a Honda or a Yamaha.

 

 

I think BMW already offers a drivetrain that out-rivals the japanese, performance wise. However; making it reliable/bombproof is another question. They need to improve their game, especially on the newest bikes. I was told by a dealer that BMW sent a bunch of QA engineers from the car division to straighten out the mess in their bike division. I guess there is a delayed reaction in there somewhere. I have yet to see a real change/modification to the final drive to make it more reliable. I dont know if I could justify buying a 20k+ dollar bike when BMW has yet to solve or attempt to solve this after the 10+ years its been occuring.

[russell_bynum]

I was told by a dealer that BMW sent a bunch of QA engineers from the car division to straighten out the mess in their bike division.

 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAH!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!

[Firefight911]

I was told by a dealer that BMW sent a bunch of QA engineers from the car division to straighten out the mess in their bike division.

 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAH!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!

 

Cali owes me a new monitor for that one!! Whooo, leading off 2010 with jokes!!!!!

 

Ohh, my sides hurt!!!!!

 

You won't see me running out to buy one of these as much as I love 6 cylinder motors (ala CBX). As a matter of fact, I have no problem in stating here and now, I may have owned my last BMW motorcycle! Anyone want to meet up at A&S this afternoon as I drop off my K13GT AGAIN for more "warranty" work? If not today, perhaps next week when I do a swap out - one warranty job to be done for this one completed.

 

D-O-N-E being their test mule, peon, money giver. DONE!

[beemerman2k]

I was told by a dealer that BMW sent a bunch of QA engineers from the car division to straighten out the mess in their bike division.

 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAH!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!

 

 

Now that's funny. Not drinkin' this kool-aid, eh Russell?

[russell_bynum]

I was told by a dealer that BMW sent a bunch of QA engineers from the car division to straighten out the mess in their bike division.

 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAH!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!

 

 

Now that's funny. Not drinkin' this kool-aid, eh Russell?

 

I have two BMW cars in the garage in addition to the BMW bike. And in the last 5 years, we've had as many as 3 BMW bikes in the garage at any given time.

 

I like many of BMW's products...in spite of the crappy quality control and unnecessarily complicated overengineering. But I'm not going to BS myself about it.

[Firefight911]

Phil, what broke this time?

 

According to the bike, I'm gonna blow up as it tells me I am dangerously and precariously low on oil. Oil level sensor is bad. A nuisance only , but, really, is this a "new and improved" version of the oil level sensor that's been around for a very long time. Of course, it's always a great thing to hear your service manager tell you that they see it all the time. Yeah, got it, TADT! KMA!

[cali_beemer]

but, really, is this a "new and improved" version of the oil level sensor that's been around for a very long time.

 

Didnt you know that, "new and improved" of the same part translates to, "we found a lower bidder".

[Kitsap]

What ya gonna replace it with Phil?

[OoPEZoO]

I have two BMW cars in the garage in addition to the BMW bike. And in the last 5 years, we've had as many as 3 BMW bikes in the garage at any given time.

 

I like many of BMW's products...in spite of the crappy quality control and unnecessarily complicated overengineering. But I'm not going to BS myself about it.

 

Same boat here......1 BMW bike, and as many as 3 BMW cars at a time. and I agree with your statement 100%

 

I love them, and I hate that I love them. And every time the next thing breaks I swear I've had enough and I'm gonna sell it (whether it be car or bike). Then I get it all back together and take it for a shakedown run. It suckers me back in every time.

 

 

[Firefight911]

What ya gonna replace it with Phil?

 

I'm not doing anything. I'm keeping what I have and will weather the storm, at least through the warranty period.

 

I love the marque for how it emotionally tugs at me when they run well. I am worn thin on dealing with the breaks, excuses, TADT, I've never heard of this, etc.

 

We'll see when the time comes, if it comes, but that Connie is sure nice - once they get cruise control on it.

 

Enough of the hijack. This is about that wonderfully engineered, will cook eggs for you, spin cycle your laundry, perfectly engineered concept 6.

 

Ok, that made me feel better!

[NonComp]

I love them, and I hate that I love them. And every time the next thing breaks I swear I've had enough and I'm gonna sell it (whether it be car or bike). Then I get it all back together and take it for a shakedown run. It suckers me back in every time.

Same here. I keep thinking, "There, that's probably the last issue that I'm going to have for a while. I've looked at pretty much everything now..."

 

But the big 6. That would truly be a lot more of everything.

[Firefight911]

But the big 6. That would truly be a lot more of everything.

 

A lot more? How could you end up back at the dealership any more than we do now? I have my own chair, coffee cup, and computer now. What next? A cot to sleep along with morning paper delivery?

[cali_beemer]

I have two BMW cars in the garage in addition to the BMW bike. And in the last 5 years, we've had as many as 3 BMW bikes in the garage at any given time.

 

I like many of BMW's products...in spite of the crappy quality control and unnecessarily complicated overengineering. But I'm not going to BS myself about it.

 

Same boat here......1 BMW bike, and as many as 3 BMW cars at a time. and I agree with your statement 100%

 

I love them, and I hate that I love them. And every time the next thing breaks I swear I've had enough and I'm gonna sell it (whether it be car or bike). Then I get it all back together and take it for a shakedown run. It suckers me back in every time.

 

 

After many BMW bikes, some having issues, I have sold many. I even tried the ST1300 but that bike gave more grief than any of my BMW's. I keep coming back to the BMW.

[beemerman2k]

As for me, my RT has been stellar! The only real issue I had with it was my transmission going at 70K miles. Other than that, the bike was bulletproof. So I'm having fun at BMW's expense, but they do make great products. They're just going to have to address the drive train issue on that big-6 engine. But assuming they do that, I have no doubt that the tourer that inherits this engine will raise the bar significantly on this type of motorcycle.

 

Can you imagine what will come with or be available on that bike? Of course the usual heated grips/seat, Xenon headlights, led tail lights, ABS, traction control, integrated GPS, onboard computer, blue tooth, iPod support, XM/Sirius radio. Those are to be expected, but what is BMW going to surprise us with in the way of new, never before available on a two wheeled vehicle electronic wizardry?

 

Oh, how about a reverse camera? :smile:

[NonComp]

Built-in credit card and debit processing. Just swipe your card in the convenient slot and the onboard computer automatically orders the parts.

[Firefight911]

As for me, my RT has been stellar! The only real issue I had with it was my transmission going at 70K miles. Other than that, the bike was bulletproof. So I'm having fun at BMW's expense, but they do make great products. They're just going to have to address the drive train issue on that big-6 engine. But assuming they do that, I have no doubt that the tourer that inherits this engine will raise the bar significantly on this type of motorcycle.

 

Can you imagine what will come with or be available on that bike? Of course the usual heated grips/seat, Xenon headlights, led tail lights, ABS, traction control, integrated GPS, onboard computer, blue tooth, iPod support, XM/Sirius radio. Those are to be expected, but what is BMW going to surprise us with in the way of new, never before available on a two wheeled vehicle electronic wizardry?

 

Oh, how about a reverse camera? :smile:

 

I know, I know. Can't help myself.

 

I'd settle for a chain, cable clutch, carbs, and a fuel tank with a petcock. Hell, while we're at it, how about some castor that I have to mix in to the fuel?

 

Yeah, it's that bad around here lately!

[rob1100r]

As for me, my RT has been stellar!

 

Long live the Oilhead 1100's!

 

I hope more bugs are worked out of the boxers (FD, and whatever) before I decide to get another bike..

[dhanson]

Hang in there Phil. I was set to try and go the warranty distance but the new models coming out shot my resale to hxll so had to let it go before it got way worse.

 

Since you have the new one, maybe it will be good for at least 3 years before they supercede it with the next bigger and better deal.

 

3putt, I didn't have any worry beads, but I did have an extra EWS ring on my bike, never needed it tho.

 

 

[Firefight911]

Hang in there Phil. I was set to try and go the warranty distance but the new models coming out shot my resale to hxll so had to let it go before it got way worse.

 

Since you have the new one, maybe it will be good for at least 3 years before they supercede it with the next bigger and better deal.

 

3putt, I didn't have any worry beads, but I did have an extra EWS ring on my bike, never needed it tho.

 

 

Dropped off the GT tonight. Met with the General Manager this trip through. He acknowledged that BMW is taking a huge beating on their recent trend of poor quality/warranty claims. The insider news is even beating them up. IIRC, he indicated BMW was ranked third worst in warranty claim issues behind Buell (uhh, they're now dead) and HD.

 

He's indicated that it appears, from his experience/perspective that BMW has acknowledged the "issues." He, too, is also hoping that BMW is going to respond in a forthright, quick, and efficient fashion as he indicated the only thing that will happen next is the doors will close on more dealers, up to and including theirs. Their was an ominous look on his face with that statement!

 

A&S has cut their staff to bare bones minimum. They seem to realize that their only hope is to really take care of their remaining/existing clientèle and pressure BMW to provide product and support that lives up to what we as BMW consumers expect and deserve for the premium we pay.

 

It all sounded good and he said some important things that helped at the local level. We'll just have to wait and see how corporate responds and if the local level can follow through on what they say.

 

Too bad that this economic downturn is what it took for this dealer to realize, scratch that, LISTEN that they were a part of the problem and that their "loyal" customers weren't gonna be loyal anymore with the way the dealer and the marque were treating them.

 

I still have no plans to buy any BMW brand motorcycles any time in the near OR distant future, irrespective of the fact that I have three 1 year old BMW bikes in the stable. BMW has burned that bridge pretty well. Only time and putting their money where their mouth is could possibly hope to change that. That means someone else can be the guinea pig for them! I'm done!

[cali_beemer]

Hang in there Phil. I was set to try and go the warranty distance but the new models coming out shot my resale to hxll so had to let it go before it got way worse.

 

Since you have the new one, maybe it will be good for at least 3 years before they supercede it with the next bigger and better deal.

 

3putt, I didn't have any worry beads, but I did have an extra EWS ring on my bike, never needed it tho.

 

 

Dropped off the GT tonight. Met with the General Manager this trip through. He acknowledged that BMW is taking a huge beating on their recent trend of poor quality/warranty claims. The insider news is even beating them up. IIRC, he indicated BMW was ranked third worst in warranty claim issues behind Buell (uhh, they're now dead) and HD.

 

He's indicated that it appears, from his experience/perspective that BMW has acknowledged the "issues." He, too, is also hoping that BMW is going to respond in a forthright, quick, and efficient fashion as he indicated the only thing that will happen next is the doors will close on more dealers, up to and including theirs. Their was an ominous look on his face with that statement!

 

A&S has cut their staff to bare bones minimum. They seem to realize that their only hope is to really take care of their remaining/existing clientèle and pressure BMW to provide product and support that lives up to what we as BMW consumers expect and deserve for the premium we pay.

 

It all sounded good and he said some important things that helped at the local level. We'll just have to wait and see how corporate responds and if the local level can follow through on what they say.

 

Too bad that this economic downturn is what it took for this dealer to realize, scratch that, LISTEN that they were a part of the problem and that their "loyal" customers weren't gonna be loyal anymore with the way the dealer and the marque were treating them.

 

I still have no plans to buy any BMW brand motorcycles any time in the near OR distant future, irrespective of the fact that I have three 1 year old BMW bikes in the stable. BMW has burned that bridge pretty well. Only time and putting their money where their mouth is could possibly hope to change that. That means someone else can be the guinea pig for them! I'm done!

 

Phil, is it just the GT or are the other bikes having problems as well?

[Firefight911]

Phil, is it just the GT or are the other bikes having problems as well?

 

The GS's are equally as problematic as it relates to warranty, breaks, and fixes.

 

As a matter of fact, I will drive my GS in and exchange for the GT once they fix it. Then, I get to drive Jamie's GS in and drop it off in exchange for my GS.

 

It's been this way for some time now. Actually, it's been that way since I bought them all!!!

[bakerzdosen]

Well, at least you don't have to worry about getting a loaner bike...

[SageRider]

Phil,

FWIW, I have never had a come-back call for any service at Sierra BMW.

If your current dealer woes don't improve, I'm sure Sierra would like you for a customer. It's only 100 miles further than your current dealer.

[mbelectric]

Phil, is it just the GT or are the other bikes having problems as well?

 

The GS's are equally as problematic as it relates to warranty, breaks, and fixes.

 

As a matter of fact, I will drive my GS in and exchange for the GT once they fix it. Then, I get to drive Jamie's GS in and drop it off in exchange for my GS.

 

 

 

It's been this way for some time now. Actually, it's been that way since I bought them all!!!

 

Lemme see now....that include ALL the BMW's you've owned?

 

How 'bout that ST ya used to have?

 

Perhaps it's time to step back off the "flavor of the month" club and get it back to basic's..

 

BMW seems to have taken a different direction in the last 1/2 dozen years. Look at how many model bikes they produce..It's got to be tough to distribute proven copies when you crank 'em out as fast as they have been. And equally tough for dealers to put up with it. Lots of theories here. But I can tell you, it was a hell of a lot easier for dealers to manage when they had 6 models to peddle and service.

 

Just sayin' Phil, I can understand your frustration. But hang onto that dealer you've got, he's still your best friend.

 

MB>

[sardineone]

OK so not to be a complete hi-jack, I like the looks of the BMW concept six alot.

 

Now to what I really wanted to say. So Phil, going to change your log-on name pretty soon???

 

Actually from my point of view owning my 1st BMW, I've said it's really good that BMW has a great product as the company isn't so great. If the product quality control/design has gone down the tubes, time & miles might moderate my feeling of my R12ST.

[OlGeezer]

I'm sorry you're having so much trouble. Motorcycling is supposed to be an escape. A&S is a good dealer, too.

[NonComp]

I'm interested in the phrase "supersports touring machine". I read an interview with BMW's head product guy (can't remember his name) when he talked about this 6. He seemed to be positioning this product (at the time) as competition for the Gold Wing. I believe that he also mentioned in that interview, that the sports touring market was dying.

 

So, I was expecting this to be a replacement for the K1200LT. They just redesigned the K1300GT, so would be unlikely to dump it when they release this bike. The RT is supposed to be the sport touring bike. And LT owners are not sport touring type of people. So I wonder where they are going to fit this in?

[Paul Mihalka]

The LT was always positioned to be like a sporty Gold Wing. A torquey 1.600cc six cylinder with about 170 hp would fit right in.

[T__]

I'm interested in the phrase "supersports touring machine". I read an interview with BMW's head product guy (can't remember his name) when he talked about this 6. He seemed to be positioning this product (at the time) as competition for the Gold Wing. I believe that he also mentioned in that interview, that the sports touring market was dying.

 

So, I was expecting this to be a replacement for the K1200LT. They just redesigned the K1300GT, so would be unlikely to dump it when they release this bike. The RT is supposed to be the sport touring bike. And LT owners are not sport touring type of people. So I wonder where they are going to fit this in?

 

Glen, if you look at the new BMW 6 cylinder engine design I would think it IS aimed precisely at the new LT (or replacement LT whatever that would be).. Small piston size & long stroke with max power coming somewhere in the 2000 RPM range.. That points to lugging power for a heavy bike not a performance revver..

 

Twisty

 

 

[skinny_tom (aka boney)]

All this time I'm thinking about the size of an in-line 6 cyl engine on a motorcycle... One of the recent moto rags even featured 3 of the models that actually went into production.

 

Then I think about my VW. It's got a VR6 engine. I wonder why the motorcycle industry, which is constantly looking for ways to save space and reduce weight hasn't explored this. VW has manufactured many reliable engines based on this design, from the VR5 & W8 to the W16 (& W18).

 

With a little creativity, some very light and small engines could be produced that would be competitive in today's race for horsepower.

[NonComp]

I guess what has me wondering, is the moniker "supersport". That sounds like quite a change from what I think of when I think LT.

[T__]

Glen, Motorcyclist (magazine) has a short blip about the (NEW) BMW 6 & they say it’s going in the “Forthcoming Luxury Tourer”.. 100 foot lbs of torque at 2000 RPM is a pretty good tractor package..

 

Twisty

 

 

[UberXY]

 

With a little creativity, some very light and small engines could be produced that would be competitive in today's race for horsepower.

 

BMW's already BTDT with an engine that is on the road in UK and Europe, and here in the US in one more very long month:

 

from motorcycle.com:

 

"BMW says the S1000RR’s engine has a maximum output of 193 horses at 13,000 rpm and maximum torque of 82.5 lb-ft at 9,750 rpm. The engine is said to weigh 131.8 lbs."

 

The six will make much more torque, which will be required to move a bike that will likely weigh twice as much as an RR.

 

 

 

 

[skinny_tom (aka boney)]

BMW's already BTDT with an engine that is on the road in UK and Europe, and here in the US in one more very long month:

 

Did I miss something? Is the new S1000RR a narrow angle V-engine?

[outpost22]

Upon testing the new final drive system to be incorporated into the new inline 6, BMW engineers could find no issues to improve on.

 

[NonComp]

Straight 4.

[NoHeat]

I read an interview with BMW's head product guy (can't remember his name) when he talked about this 6. He seemed to be positioning this product (at the time) as competition for the Gold Wing. I believe that he also mentioned in that interview, that the sports touring market was dying.

 

You're probably thinking of the chief of BMW Motorrad, Hendirck von Kuenheim, quoted in Motorcyclist January 2009:

 

http://bmwsporttouring.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=437085&page=1

 

[FlyingFinn]

With a little creativity, some very light and small engines could be produced that would be competitive in today's race for horsepower.

 

Technically not VR4 but a narrow-angle V layout:

 

And certainly packs more little creativity:

 

"This revolutionary engine nearly eliminates gyroscopic and torque forces, both of which have significant adverse effects on the way a motorcycle handles. The engine also has nearly perfect balance in both the primary and secondary forces, and achieves this without the use of a counterbalance shaft. So ingenious is the packaging, that the engine is a mere 6.5" wide, the same width as the rear tire."

 

MotoCzysz C1

 

 

--

Mikko