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2002 R1150RT Brake hose failed today!


RT Russ

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Had a bad start to my day today. Got to work and realized I had left my access badge at home....that was a first since we went to a government mandated access card. Headed back home to get the badge, then turned around and headed back to work yet again. I did both of these runs at a fairly brisk pace to say the least. When I took the freeway off ramp and hit my brakes, both of the red lights started to flash alternatively. The brakes worked fine. I checked both circuits at low speeds then continued the 1.5 miles to work cautiously. When I got to work, I turned the bike off and then back on. I got the normal light sequence at that time so I got off the bike and put my helmet away. Then I noticed a small puddle behind the front wheel. A co-worker and I went out with a flash light and looked around until we found the culprit was the failed brake hose to the front wheel circuit. It was just seeping fluid from under the sheathing. I have parked the machine and ordered Spiegel SS braided lines. They will take 5-7 working days to get. Bummer, I was planning on doing some riding up the coast while the women folk did the Black Friday routine. Now it looks like I'll be caging it for a while.

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Russ,

Glad to hear you are OK!!!

 

FYI -

Is your bike parked indoors at home?

Is your bike parked outdoors at work?

What is the production date of your bike and how many miles do you have on it?

 

Enquiring minds and all that ;)

 

Thanks mate :thumbsup:

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FYI -

Is your bike parked indoors at home?

Is your bike parked outdoors at work?

What is the production date of your bike and how many miles do you have on it?

 

Enquiring minds and all that ;)

 

:thumbsup:

 

Phil,

Bike is always garaged at home (and was by the first owner as well).

Parked outdoors at work

Don't know production date but it's a 2002 with 24,439 miles on it. It had 8,132 in it when I bought it in July of 2008.

 

It's a beautiful day out there today and I wish I was riding it!

 

Russ

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Hi Russ,

 

I had the same brake line fail on my '00 R1150GS two weeks ago. It knocked me out of my plans to ride to Death Valley that weekend. This is the first brake line I have had fail on any motor vehicle, ever.

 

My line failed right at the beginning of the flexible rubber line that connects between the rigid line from the ABS and the "T" manifold block on the right fork tube. This is probably the most abused spot on any flexible brake line on the bike. I have spent some significant time riding washboarded dirt roads and am not surprised to have my brake line fail at this location.

 

I ordered the Speigler kit from a local Spiegler distributor (coincidentally, a BMW dealer), received it a week ago, and installed it yesterday. Although it came with almost no instructions worth reading, it installed well and looks like I will get many years of reliable brake operation out of it. I'm pretty happy, but I think that they cut some of the lines just a little short.

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Generally, I'm surprised by how early these brake lines are failing. I've driven old cars and bikes that were definitely *not* in pristine condition, over the years, and never really gave a thought to the brake lines. My most recent elder bike was a '79 GoldWing with 150K miles on it.

 

The brakes were a bit spungey on that bike, and I had to rebuild the master cylinder and clean up the wheel cylinders from years of abuse and outdoor storage, but I really didn't worry all that much about the brake lines themselves.

 

How can the brake lines be failing on a beemer that is less than 10 years old? Is this a similar case to my wiring failure, where there may not be enough slack in the lines from new?

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They will take 5-7 working days to get. Bummer, I was planning on doing some riding up the coast while the folk did the Black Friday routine. Now it looks like I'll be caging it for a while.

 

I've got a set of brand new Spieglers sitting on my desk awaiting time for me to do the job. If they fit your bike, I'll send them to you and you can send me yours when they arrive. Mail from Oregon to CA is only 2 days usually.

I have S-BM0118 line kit. Let me know if they would fit. It is the standard braided kit, not any fancy colors or anything.

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Russ,

That hose is the actual "flexing" hose on the front brake system isn't it!

 

Hmmm! I believe paranoia is now fuelling my anality :eek:

 

Looks like SS line installs will be part of my next major ABS brake service! :(

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ShovelStrokeEd

Brake lines, or any line that flexes for that matter, should be routed in such a way that there is at least a 120 degree loop in the line at 90 degrees to the axis of motion. It looks goofy but will prevent flexing at the fittings (the weakest point in the line). At least one fitting should also be aligned with the axis of motion as much as possible, with the other at 90 degrees. This makes for an odd looking brake line but one that will minimize stress at the fittings.

 

If I remember to later, I'll post a pic of the line routing on my Aprilia. They pretty much have it right.

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Ed,

Yup! I have the visual image of that arrangement and it makes sense! Interested to see the pic so that I cud, hopefully, do my own "custom" RT install. Thank you :thumbsup:

 

 

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Ed,

Yup! I have the visual image of that arrangement and it makes sense! Interested to see the pic so that I cud, hopefully, do my own "custom" RT install.

I don't want to make a big issue about this, but for me, the question is, why should one be required to do a custom routing of brake lines on a beemer? Of all the little and large problems that I've personally experienced and read about in the past couple of years, the issue of brake failure is the most disconcerting. Especially with my wife riding the bike in question.

 

Those of you with more money than I, will likely say, 'just replace the brake lines with braided steel and be down with it'. But I'm left wondering, why this is necessary in the first place?

 

As an aside, with this topic in mind, I was on Craig's List yesterday and saw a number of ads for used BMWs that were put there by our two local authorized BMW dealers. One ad for a year-old GS said, "This bike won't last long!" What an unfortunate choice of words by the salesman. :(

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How can the brake lines be failing on a beemer that is less than 10 years old?

 

Years back, the rear brake line on my 98 GS failed. I was advised more or less unanimously by another online community of riders (Adv) that 5 years is about it for factory rubber lines and they should be replaced.

 

Grist for the mill.

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Those of you with more money than I, will likely say, 'just replace the brake lines with braided steel and be down with it'. But I'm left wondering, why this is necessary in the first place?

 

 

It's not. Periodic inspections should include a visual of brake hoses. They nearly always start to crack at the crimped fitting long before they fail. The outer layer cracks, then splits then you see the inner layer, then they fail.

I'm not suggesting you let it go that long but you should have plenty of warning before it lets go.

 

If you follow Ed's instructions of having a nice radius and no sharp bends at the fittings, you will eliminate most problems like this.

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What a gracious offer! Thanks, seriously, but I will give the shop a few days. If I do not have them in hand by say the 4th, I would like to take you up on that offer. I'll PM you if the shop does not come through in a timely manner.

 

Russ

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5 years is about it for factory rubber lines

 

Hummm. I guess I've gotten my $ worth on my 86' Moto Guzzi LeMans rubber lines as they are the factory originals. This is the first I've ever heard of any motorcycle brake lines failing. I too, suspect a routing problem in the background of the problem.

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I've driven a lot of older, unrestored cars over the years. Right now there is a Toyota Corolla that's been in our family for 320K and almost 20 years. To the best of my knowledge, I've never changed a brake line on a car, nor have I had a brake line changed. Nor have I had a brake failure due to line failure. Nor do I know anyone who has. I've had master cylinder and wheel cyinders fail. But nothing like this. I find the idea that brake lines have reached the end of their lifespan in 5 years to be more than a little scary.

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I'm just relaying what I've been told. In 2007 or so is when the line on my 98 went. It blew up like a balloon right in the middle of the line.

 

Not an experience I want to repeat.

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Rich06FJR1300

actually, whenever i changed brakes on my car, i always made it a habit to change the brake lines as a sort of proactive measure. I only know of one failure on a car. A workmate brought his 1992 toyota to inspection, they tested the brakes and then the hose blew! so he had to get it towed to the repair shop right at the inspection station LOL...there has to be some irony there. I'm not sure what year this happened though.

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Regardless of the reason oilhead OEM brake lines do not seem to be particularly long-lived and always seem to fail in the most inconvenient way (as brake lines are apt to do.) I would agree that swapping out for SS braided lines at 5-10 years is a good idea and may forestall some inconvenience at best and an accident at worst. The good side of this is that SS lines greatly improve braking performance (especially when they're replacing old rubber lines) so you do get some additional benefit out of the effort.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Follow up.

 

The Spiegler kit for the R1150GS was almost perfect, although the rear brake line is almost too short. In the end, the front brake line from the ABS rigid tubing down to the manifold on the right fork leg was 2 inches too short due to my Touratech "Hard Part". I have this Touratech piece installed on my GS that is designed to prevent you from braking the steering head casting in a crash. I don't know if it has saved my steering head or not, but I HAVE crashed this bike in ruts, sand, decomposed bentonite silt, creeks, and on major multilane highways, and my steering head stops have not been removed yet. The part re-routes the brake line a little, which then needs an additional 50mm in order to route the line inside the fork tubes.

 

So, in the unlikely event that you have an 1150GS with the Touratech Hard Part installed, and want to install the Spiegler kit, ask them to add 2 inches to that brake line. Coincidentally, that was the brake line that failed in the first place.

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My Spiegler kit went on pretty painlessly other than the bleeding process. The wheel circuits were a breeze but the metering and control circuits were a bit of a pain. I took lots of pictures but never posted them.

 

By the way Jonathan, after we met at Richard and Jacqueline's I told Gail Strzepa you had said hello, she says hello back at you!

 

Hawk

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Jonathon, putting two and two together, do you think that the displacement of the brake line routing due to the Touratech crash guard is actually the cause of your original brake line failure? Two inches is a lot of slack lost on the stock line.

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Glen,

 

Now that you mention it, it is likely that the Touratech routing accelerated the original brake line failure. The line failed at the top, where it was forced to bend with the tightest radius.

 

Most of the Spiegler lines tended towards being almost too short. It's a fine line between too short and too long. Either is bad, but too short is worse.

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Last time I looked at speigler they had the lengths all wrong fo my bike. I spent more for lines I thought were better quality and which were made the length I wanted. HEL was the brand and their dealer was great to work with.

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A co-worker and I went out with a flash light and looked around until we found the culprit was the failed brake hose to the front wheel circuit. It was just seeping fluid from under the sheathing. I have parked the machine and ordered Spiegel SS braided lines.

It's a good reason to do that "stupid" walkaround check before getting on the bike. I don't, I'm too clever for it. :dopeslap:

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