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How do you conserve resources? And where do you splurge?


AviP

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I thought of posting this in that low waterflow faucet thread (hilarious) but I think it deserves it's own thread. Here's my list, show me yours. I'm looking for ideas but debate is welcome.

 

Conserve:

- I don't wait for the water to warm up. I use cold water all the time in all faucets. Even if it is 35 degree water. It saves me water and electricity.

- I don't use paper napkins for spills/cleanup. I use cotton towels that are reused many times and then get used lower down the cleanup list to cleaning my auto wheels, underhood cleanup, etc. before being discarded. It saves the trees and landfill.

- I don't use face wipes, I use a cotton handkerchief (or hanky) instead. It saves the trees and landfill.

- I don't keep the thermostat at 68F. I keep it at 60F and wear an additional layer. It saves the oil and reduces emissions.

- I don't throw organic waste into the garbage. I throw it into a compost pit behind my deck. It saves the landfill and gives me free fertilizer.

- I don't bag grass clippings. Every alternate mowing gets mulched into the lawn itself or is dumped into the compost pit. It saves the landfill, time and gives me free organic fertilizer.

- I don't bag fall leaves. I blow them into the woods and the compost pit. It saves the landfill, time and gives me free organic fertilizer.

- I don't use chemical fertilizers or weed killers on my lawn. I weed by hand. My lawn does not impact the water quality.

- I recycle newspaper, paper sheets, shredded paper, paper food packaging (that's not dirty), cardboard, bottles, cans, plastics (1 to 7), aluminum foil, glass, metal. I do this diligently even though it's additional work and I have to take the garbage myself.

- I don't discard hazardous waste into the drain or landfill. I store it until hazardous waste day and then the white-suited professionals take over.

- I don't make multiple trips for errands. I usually do 3-6 errands during the same trip. This saves me time and gas on my guzzler pickup.

- I don't use tungsten bulbs. I've switched all lights that stay on for over an hour to CFL. The slow startup doesn't bother me. It saves me about $20 a month. Note: It does trouble me that these lights have a small amount of mercury in them. I'm unhappy about the tradeoff because it's created a new problem. Never throw CFL bulbs into the garbage, take them to your local recycling center.

- I don't cut trees in my lot for cosmetic reasons, only if they are a hazard. I live in a very wooded lot and the trees are right around my house. In summer they provide shade and I didn't have to turn on the AC except for 3 days this year. In winter they lose their leaves and the sun shines right through keeping the house warmer. It saves me electricity and reduces CO2 in the air. Caveat: There is the risk of a tree falling on my house in a wind storm but these trees are decades old and healthy.

- I don't use a snow thrower even though my driveway is 240' long. I use hand shovels and have the little ones enjoy some quality time with dad. I plan on doing this until I get too old to shovel.

 

Splurge:

- I take a luxurious 20-30 minute hot water shower. I don't plan to change this since the conservation process has got me too cold anyways. :rofl:

- I drive a pickup truck but I need it for the home improvement business. I don't see myself getting a 4th auto. I get a horrible 11-13mpg city and I hate it.

- I buy water in gallon bottles. I don't trust well water anymore because there are too many pollutants in it. This will not change. But it is recycled.

- I use a gas powered lawn mover. My lawn is about 15000 sqft and in 3 disjoint sections but it is much smaller than most of my neighbors. And electric lawn mower is not a good option.

- I use a gas powered backpack blower. For the distance I need to cover, an electric blower is not an option and raking by hand wore me down.

 

Potential Changes:

- I will install an electric (not gas) tankless water heater. This is a given that is expected to pay off within 2 years. I currently have a huge 80 gallon electric hot water reservoir.

- I will look into geothermal energy. I'm not so sure that this will be cost effective. I think 10 years is the break even point but I need more research.

- I will consider an electric or 40mpg vehicle as a replacement to my PT Cruiser but only when it croaks

- I am considering solar energy solutions but since my lot is covered in trees, its not as straightforward as a roof mount. Wind energy is out of the question.

- I will love buying electricity from renewable sources like wind, solar, tides, etc. The current rates are not competitive.

 

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1) I mulch leaves and grass 100% with my mower. No burning, raking or bagging. Fuel consumption is very, very small...probably less than most use burning them in my town. Yes, it's legal in the rual midwest...unfortunately. Mostly I do it because I hate the smell and smoke when others burn leaves, so therefore I don;t burn them either.

 

2) Live 3 miles from home. I could walk if I had to. I rode a bicycle on nice days until we had a child.

 

3) Live in a small home even though we could afford much more. It probably has about 1/2 the building materials and consumes abotu 30% less energy than most McMansions. It will also increase in value faster the population retires. Retirees don't want to take care of 2000+sqft homes.

 

4) Drive smaller vehicles with 4 cylinder engines. This is mostly due to the purchase price.

 

5) Don't let my car idle when picking up the kid from daycare except on the hotest and coldest days.

 

6) Have CFL's throughout the home. LED's should replace that technology within the next 5-10 years. The current LED bulbs I've seen are either too dim, too blue/white or too expensive.

 

7) Live in a community wiht adequate local water and landfill resources. I always questioned some large cities located so far from fresh water that they require massive aquaducts and power stations to survive.

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Resources = money, some would say...

 

I do most of the same as the original post.

 

Ride a bicycle or motorcycle instead of the car.

 

I buy most of my clothes at value village. Here in the big city, people donate lots of essentially new stuff, and I pay 10% of retail. I never was a snappy dresser anyhow.

 

I wear my clothes until they're worn out. Then they go into the rag-bag, and get used for cleaning.

 

I own a 1960's sewing machine, and repair my own clothes.

 

I darn my own socks.

 

I bought a $200 bread machine at Value village for $5 and have not bought a loaf since.

 

We only flush the potty for #2

 

We walk to the grocery store. If I need something, I buy several at a time so I can save trips to the store.

 

I keep a large pantry - saves trips, and is consistent with disaster prep. recommendations.

 

I close the drapes to help regulate temperatures inside (summer and winter).

 

I have a BIG down comforter on the bed, and turn the heat way down overnight.

 

I only heat about 1/2 of the condo.

 

Mostly by accident we have a couple lamps in each room. So I put in smaller CFLs in each, and we only use as much light as we need. You'd be suprised how little you need to not feel like you're sitting in the dark....

 

I heard of a guy who saved up his junk mail all year and then heated his home with it. Not sure if that's conservation, but it appeared to save him money.

 

 

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How we are reducing our carbon footprint:

 

- We are vegetarians (the #1 thing anyone can do by far short of dying);

- We use public transportation daily;

- We have a vegetable garden and use only organic fertilizers, and water it with recycled water;

- We never water, fertilize, or chemically weed the lawn;

- I mow the small lawn with a manual push reel type mower;

- Our truck and car average less than 8km a year, each is the economical model of its class ( a Ranger and a Celica), and are self-maintained for maximum life;

- We always buy used, good condition vehicles;

- All our vehicles have all OEM pollution controls in place and all of it is functioning;

- All our vehicles are kept in tune and tire pressure checked regularly;

- I only change motor oil (myself) every 10km (and getting longer) and the used oil is always returned to a recycle depot;

- We rarely fly;

- On the rare occasion when we need a larger car (usually to transport an elderly relative or friend) we rent one;

-We live in a rented smart-sized, super-insulated home, without air conditioning (but then it is Canada after all!), and it is heated with a 95% efficient furnace;

- We set the thermostat in the winter no higher than 20°C (68°F);

- I change the furnace filter regularly;

- The furnace has a functioning, regularly maintained humidifier;

- All of our appliances are less than 5 years old and each was selected for their highest efficiency rating;

- We have a high efficiency low energy consumption dishwasher and use it;

- We wash clothes exclusively in cold water with a non-phosphate detergent and air dry most of them;

- Our toilets are low-volume dual-flush models;

- The showers have low-flow heads and we often ‘share a shower’;

- All the faucets are also low-flow;

- We house clean with low volatile homemade cleaners such as vinegar & newspapers for windows and mirrors;

- We use CFLs throughout and all spent ones are returned to a recycle depot, as are all hazardous household waste;

- We painted the inside of the house with low VOC paints;

- All electronics are on switched power strips and are turned off after use to reduce parasitic standby usage. This includes the PC which has a USB driven AC switch to power down all peripherals;

- We use rechargeable batteries exclusively;

- We use the municipal curb-side recycle program religiously except items that have a deposit return on them and those go to the bottle depot for redemption and recycling;

- We exclusively use reusable natural fiber shopping bags;

- We never, ever purchase bottle water, we have a “Brita” pitcher instead;

- We attempt to buy local, “slow food” whenever possible (hard to do in Canada in the winter);

- We always buy in bulk whenever possible/available;

- I bring my lunch to work each day in multiple used recyclable ‘Tupperware’;

- We select products to purchase with an eye toward those with minimal excess packaging;

- We attempt to minimize our purchase of clothing with synthetic fabrics;

- When shopping for small household items (and some clothes) we always search for used first;

- We use cloth napkins, towels, hankies, etc., but when we do occasionally buy paper products we buy those made out of the maximum percentage recycled post consumer content we can find;

- We never ever by ‘Styrofoam’ type disposable products;

- We donate used clothing to the homeless agencies; and

- We donate read magazines and books to a reading center.

 

Spurges:

- I won’t attempt to defend the bike except to say it is rarely used for recreational riding and when it is used for necessary transport its carbon footprint is less than the other vehicles;

- We do own a 42" LCD flat-screen TV (our only TV) and have a dish;

- We do have cell phones (but no "land line");

- We have high-speed Internet access;

- I iron my work dress shirts; and

- Once a month (only) we order delivery pizza.

 

Potential Changes:

- We have to move in the spring (owner is selling the house we’re in) and we would like to go to an even smaller, even more efficient dwelling;

- We’re discontinuing our annual 10km motorcycle trip;

- I’ve thought about getting rid of the bike completely, but that admittedly is a hard pill to swallow;

- Should the car get wrecked or give it up we won’t replace it, just scale back to having the small truck only; and

- Should we have to replace the truck it likely will be with a hybrid car.

 

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I do a lot of things differently than in the past because I've bought in to their rationales: re-cycling, drip-system for the garden, LPG powered car, to cite a few. That said, re-cycling plastic has it's own polluting aspects, LPG combustion still results in unhealthy gases. No action without a reaction.

 

Recently, I was discussing with an acquaintance my upcoming travel plans, which will include jet travel, rental cars, and air conditioned hotels. She asked, in a semi-serious but not aggressive way, if given the environmental impacts, perhaps they weren't eco-friendly. I took her point, saying I suppose I could just stay home and petrify. But then I told her that I had already done my share for the environment: no kids, who would probably have kids, and so on, adding to the net yearly world population increase of some 75 million people. I am cognizant of the cultural and biological forces at work that lead to this, but IMHO that is the root of the problem. Every one of those 75 million needs to eat, drink, be sheltered and clothed, at a minimum. In short, consume.

 

When I see Abu Dhabi's indoor ski run, golf courses in Nevada, and rain forests being devastated to make room for cattle raising, I despair.

 

Can Man save the world? The world will survive as it has for billions of years, but Man seems headed for extinction in decidely fewer years.

 

 

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Never considered living 3 miles from home....

 

Freudian slip perhaps. Maybe I'm thinking that I live at work ... and it's only 3 miles from my home.

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I had already done my share for the environment: no kids, who would probably have kids,

Oh yeah, I need to add to our list - No kids.

 

Now before this launches off into a major hijack on pros/cons of "no kids", and I recognize there are many "pros", remember this is a "conservation" thread, and from that narrow perspective not creating additional humans is (IMHO) valid.

 

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- We’re discontinuing our annual 10km motorcycle trip;

Say it ain't so!

It is so. Or most likely so at any rate. Long recreational motorcycle trips, e.g. to the UN, are in our mind getting increasingly harder to justify, both ecologically and financially. We’ll see what next Spring brings before saying for sure, but most likely "Staycations" are more our future.

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I type on the internet instead of going to Ken's house to discuss things.

 

:wave:

LOL! That's a good one!

 

Outstanding!

 

 

CFL's were mentioned.

I am opposed to the ban of 2014.

I think CFL's (which have Mercury in them) present more of a problem than the one they solve.

Billions of bulbs with Mercury is good for the environment?

I don't think so.

How and where we will we dispose of them?

I think LED's would be a much better direction to pursue.

 

I conserve by working a low paying job which reduces my disposable income and limits my spending to essentials. (like motorcycle goodies :/)

 

We do actually try , most of the time, to lean green.

 

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I could do better. CFLs and a new heat pump (not intentional; the old A/C blew up in July) have substantially reduced our electricity bill over the past 3 years.

 

Switch from a Subaru Forester to a Honda Fit this year helps reduce gasoline consumption.

 

Still drive/ride too much. I'm not cutting back on my riding.

 

In the future: sell Atlanta house and move to a house half as big, with better insulation, in the mountains. Replace the 10-year old heat pump on the mountain house with something more efficient. Possibly install solar panels (although forest shade may make that impractical). Plant a garden. All the land around the house is already mulched, so there is no grass to cut or weeds to kill. I have no idea if well/septic is more or less efficient than piped water/sewer.

 

Die -- absolutely the most effective thing I can do. I'm not in a hurry.

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I think CFL's (which have Mercury in them) present more of a problem than the one they solve.

Billions of bulbs with Mercury is good for the environment?

I don't think so.

 

Not to disagree with you - you're probably right. but you may find this interesting. It's from a EPA study just completed on contamination in fish:

 

"Burning fossil fuels, primarily coal, accounts for nearly half of mercury air emissions caused by human activity in the U.S., and those emissions are a significant contributor to mercury in water bodies. From 1990 through 2005, emissions of mercury into the air decreased by 58 percent."

 

My guess is CFLs account for a very small percentage of Mercuy. But it's just a guess. Of course coal is burned to generate electricity, so you'd have to correlate electricity savings with mercury output saved (at the coal plant), then add in the mercury inside your CFL....

 

I'm kindof a big fan of LEDs. Power consumption with those is low enough that solar electricity is more practical. But then I've also heard (not sure if it's ture) that it takes more energy to produce a solar p-v unit, than that unit will ever produce in its lifetime.

 

It's a complicated world....

 

 

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I am a meatatarian. I eat meat. Animals at least have a chance to run away. Vegetables are stuck in the ground. Pulling them up them and eating them is akin picking on the handicapped, in my book.

 

I watch people standing out in the freezing rain waiting for public transportation, as I drive to work each day.

 

I understand people like to use recycled water, so I try and contribute as much base product for their needs as possible.

 

I pay a bunch of illegals to use two-stroke mowers, weedeaters and leaf blowers to keep my yard looking good.

 

I do have a 4-cylinder car, but the way I drive it, I get about 20mpg instead of the 30 it’s supposed to get. Yee-ha!

 

I pay someone to change my oil. It’s good for the economy, employment and the tax base.

 

I get there the way that’s either the fastest or most convenient. The plane’s gonna go there anyway. The extra cost of having me and my luggage aboard is a lot less, both financially and ecologically, than driving there.

 

I live in a nice house. I worked hard for it and I deserve it. But I only heat/cool the rooms I’m going to be in, which on any given day is usually all of them.

 

I set the thermostat at 72 in the winter and 68 in the summer. Ahhhhh.

 

I use regular light bulbs. If they were good enough for Thomas Edison, they’re good enough for me. Besides, someone said something about mercury or whatever, and that’s bad stuff.

 

I wash my whites in hot, my colors in cold, and I use whatever detergent is on sale. To dry them, my Binford Turbo dryer does the job in about 15 minutes, but you can’t touch the metal door for a half hour after it's done.

 

Costco and Sam’s Club sell a crapload of batteries in these neat convenient packages, for about $10. Easy-peasy.

 

I recycle my plastic bottles, turning them into entertainment. Some water and dry ice inside, cap them quickly and set them on their heads. Make neat bottle rockets. I think the neighbors have a special bin for them. I contribute what I can.

 

I buy the clothing I like. I don’t care what it’s made of, as long as it looks good and wears well.

 

Same for food. If it’s good tasting and not too fattening, I’ll buy some.

 

I use paper products. Helps employ lumberjacks.

 

I use plastic shopping bags as they have many residual uses. For example, re-entry parachutes for my bottle rockets.

 

:grin:

 

 

 

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elkroeger,

Check out the EPA guidelines for cleanup of a broken CFL.

Compact fluorescent lights (CFLs) are lighting more homes than ever before, and EPA is encouraging Americans to use and recycle them safely. Carefully recycling CFLs prevents the release of mercury into the environment and allows for the reuse of glass, metals and other materials that make up fluorescent lights.

 

EPA is continually reviewing its clean-up and disposal recommendations for CFLs to ensure that the Agency presents the most up-to-date information for consumers and businesses. Maine's Department of Environmental Protection released a CFL breakage study report on February 25, 2008. EPA has conducted an initial review of this study and, as a result of this review, we have updated the CFL cleanup instructions below.

 

Pending the completion of a full review of the Maine study, EPA will determine whether additional changes to the cleanup recommendations are warranted. The agency plans to conduct its own study on CFLs after thorough review of the Maine study.

Types of Mercury-Containing Bulbs

Fluorescent bulbs, which include linear, U-tube and circline fluorescent tubes, bug zappers, tanning bulbs, black lights, germicidal bulbs, high output bulbs, cold-cathode fluorescent bulbs, and compact fluorescent bulbs;

High intensity discharge bulbs, which include metal halide, ceramic metal halide, high pressure sodium, and mercury vapor;

Mercury short-arc bulbs; and

Neon bulbs.

Learn more about...

Types of fluorescent bulbs

Which light bulbs contain mercury, and how fluorescent and other mercury-containing bulbs work

Recycling and disposal options for mercury-containing bulbs

Bulb recycling programs in your area

Compact fluorescent bulbs that earn the government's ENERGY STAR

Fluorescent light bulbs contain a very small amount of mercury sealed within the glass tubing. EPA recommends the following clean-up and disposal below. Please also read the information on this page about what never to do with a mercury spill.

 

Before Clean-up: Air Out the Room

 

Have people and pets leave the room, and don't let anyone walk through the breakage area on their way out.

Open a window and leave the room for 15 minutes or more.

Shut off the central forced-air heating/air conditioning system, if you have one.

Clean-Up Steps for Hard Surfaces

 

Carefully scoop up glass pieces and powder using stiff paper or cardboard and place them in a glass jar with metal lid (such as a canning jar) or in a sealed plastic bag.

Use sticky tape, such as duct tape, to pick up any remaining small glass fragments and powder.

Wipe the area clean with damp paper towels or disposable wet wipes. Place towels in the glass jar or plastic bag.

Do not use a vacuum or broom to clean up the broken bulb on hard surfaces.

Clean-up Steps for Carpeting or Rug

 

Carefully pick up glass fragments and place them in a glass jar with metal lid (such as a canning jar) or in a sealed plastic bag.

Use sticky tape, such as duct tape, to pick up any remaining small glass fragments and powder.

If vacuuming is needed after all visible materials are removed, vacuum the area where the bulb was broken.

Remove the vacuum bag (or empty and wipe the canister), and put the bag or vacuum debris in a sealed plastic bag.

Clean-up Steps for Clothing, Bedding and Other Soft Materials

 

If clothing or bedding materials come in direct contact with broken glass or mercury-containing powder from inside the bulb that may stick to the fabric, the clothing or bedding should be thrown away. Do not wash such clothing or bedding because mercury fragments in the clothing may contaminate the machine and/or pollute sewage.

You can, however, wash clothing or other materials that have been exposed to the mercury vapor from a broken CFL, such as the clothing you are wearing when you cleaned up the broken CFL, as long as that clothing has not come into direct contact with the materials from the broken bulb.

If shoes come into direct contact with broken glass or mercury-containing powder from the bulb, wipe them off with damp paper towels or disposable wet wipes. Place the towels or wipes in a glass jar or plastic bag for disposal.

Disposal of Clean-up Materials

 

Immediately place all clean-up materials outdoors in a trash container or protected area for the next normal trash pickup.

Wash your hands after disposing of the jars or plastic bags containing clean-up materials.

Check with your local or state government about disposal requirements in your specific area. Some states do not allow such trash disposal. Instead, they require that broken and unbroken mercury-containing bulbs be taken to a local recycling center.

Future Cleaning of Carpeting or Rug: Air Out the Room During and After Vacuuming

 

The next several times you vacuum, shut off the central forced-air heating/air conditioning system and open a window before vacuuming.

Keep the central heating/air conditioning system shut off and the window open for at least 15 minutes after vacuuming is completed.

 

Not exactly user/environmental friendly, IMO.

Wouldn't it be great to live downwind of the above?

No, if they are this dangerous, they aren't the solution.

YMMV.

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Ah jeez, when I was a kid, I thought it was fun to play with mercury -- nudge blobs to merge/divide, or coat a penny with the stuff to make it silvery. Between the lead, mercury, airplane dope, nitromethane, gunpowder, and asbestos (I used to make it "snow" by knocking asbestos gloves together), it's a miracle that I'm still alive at 63.

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I am a meatatarian...

Well as the old saying goes, ‘If you can’t be part of the solution then at least be part of the problem.’

 

Or something like that, I can’t quite remember exactly how it goes...

 

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russell_bynum
I am a meatatarian...

Well as the old saying goes, ‘If you can’t be part of the solution then at least be part of the problem.’

 

Or something like that, I can’t quite remember exactly how it goes...

 

Ken, just think of all the electricity you just wasted typing that.

 

Another few inches of coastline just sank beneath the sea. I hope it was worth it to you.

 

 

 

:grin:

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I think CFL's (which have Mercury in them) present more of a problem than the one they solve.

Billions of bulbs with Mercury is good for the environment?

I don't think so.

 

Not to disagree with you - you're probably right. but you may find this interesting. It's from a EPA study just completed on contamination in fish:

 

"Burning fossil fuels, primarily coal, accounts for nearly half of mercury air emissions caused by human activity in the U.S., and those emissions are a significant contributor to mercury in water bodies. From 1990 through 2005, emissions of mercury into the air decreased by 58 percent."

 

My guess is CFLs account for a very small percentage of Mercuy. But it's just a guess. Of course coal is burned to generate electricity, so you'd have to correlate electricity savings with mercury output saved (at the coal plant), then add in the mercury inside your CFL....

It’s a currently debated subject, and I don’t know if anyone really knows the true situation. Certainly coal fired power plants, which CLFs reduce the load on, are by far the largest source of mercury contamination in the environment. That much is little disputed. Whether or not the reduction there is offset by the increase of mercury introduced into the environment by the increase in popularity of CFLs is much more debatable.

 

Certainly microscopic airborne mercury particles (from the power plants) present a far more immediate hazard than discarded CFLs buried in a landfill probably do. Especially considered they’re probably still intact in the landfill. And likely encapsulate in plastic garbage bags that have a decay rate of something like 20,000 years.

 

I DO thing it's interesting that the concern about mercury in florescent lights is only now being trumpeted as an issue by anti-environmentalist when for decades florescent lighting has been used (and still is) in office and commercial settings, and those long tube type of florescent lights have 1000s of time more mercury in them than a household CFLs do. And are much more likly to be broken up during disposal to boot. Where were they when they were cheaply lighting all the offices with them? Me thinks that group is just fundamentally apposed anything environmental, and the mercury issue is by-and-large just a diversionary tactic. But the science is really truly still out on the subject.

 

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Vicious_Cycler
I am a meatatarian...

 

EffBee, 10-4 and hell yeah! We're humans not Vulcans, we're carbon-based not silicon-based. We are designed as, or have evolved into, omnivores not exclusively herbivore or carnivore. We are creatures driven by emotion. Because we are sentient, we seek pleasure for its own sake (as do even lower animals to some degree). Surely the point of life is more than to just live unto death with logic as our god and as little impact on the environment as possible. To me, giving up frivolous fun b/c its frivolous is akin to becoming a houseplant.

 

Well as the old saying goes, ‘If you can’t be part of the solution then at least be part of the problem.’

 

Ken, what exactly is the statement of the problem? Is it: people do illogical, inefficient, unproductive things which leads to waste of resources and affects the environment? If so, I'm in!

 

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I generally hate waste, but that doesn't mean I'll adopt conservation methods that aren't practical or economical -- that would involve wastes of time, money or other resources. It needs to make sense.

 

The volume of our household matter that gets recycled is probably 3x vs. what goes in the trash. We do this despite the lack of local pickup, and the recycling center being 30 miles away.

 

We combine as many errands as possible when we run them, and try to take the most fuel-efficient vehicle we have that would do the job. Sometimes the MC is fine, but sometimes you just need the truck.

 

We use CFLs and fluorescent light fixtures when we think their suitable. Sometimes they aren't.

 

We keep the thermostat in reasonable ranges.

 

We no longer have a lawn that needs watering or maintenance (although I still mow about 2 acres for defensible space).

 

We moved to an existing new-to-us house, and we're rehabbing it, as opposed to a new one. Theoretically, that means less demand for building materials that consume resources, and less sprawl. As to the former, let me repeat -- theoretically.

 

Our house is oriented for good solar gain during the winter.

 

The new R-44 attic insulation we installed was cellulose (recycled newspaper) rather than fiberglass batts.

 

I look at energy consumption labels on appliances, but I'll generally buy the one I really want, even if its isn't the most efficient.

 

I look for goods made with recycled or recyclable materials, but ditto the previous item.

 

I don't have much guilt about my splurges. I've worked long and hard, and if I'm willing to pay the price, America should allow me to be inefficient. The main ones: a homestead with a 40-acre footprint; living 30 miles from the small city where I work; outdoor hot tub in a cool climate (churns more kw than anything else we own); central A/C in a cool climate (that solar gain situation can be a bitch in summer); Team Schnauzer Tour Bus gets ~10 mpg and belches some black diesel smoke; LOVE my electric blanket in the winter; love my home entertainment gear and computers.

 

Things I might change: I'm considering a solar electric system for my barn and shed; my next 4-wheeler is likely to be a VW with a TDI engine; more telecommuting in lieu of 60 mile round trips to work.

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It was a small issue to me until the ban of 2014.

Now, on many levels, it does concern me more than before.

I actually didn't know this about CFL's until the ban.

 

I am not an anti-environmentalist, nor am I saying you directed that at me.

 

I am tired of ineffective laws, lawmakers, and special interest groups of all suasions.

I was green before most folks put yellow and blue together and got on the bandwagon.

But, over time, I've seen all parties bend the science to fit their needs whilst denouncing the other side as (insert your term of choice).

As long as we need power generated to maintain our Society, those who generate the power and those who have the power will dictate to those of us who rely on power generation to exist.

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I am a meatatarian...

Well as the old saying goes, ‘If you can’t be part of the solution then at least be part of the problem.’

 

Or something like that, I can’t quite remember exactly how it goes...

Protein and fats are great for memory. Some veggies, too. All in moderation, of course.

 

 

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I am a meatatarian...

EffBee, 10-4 and hell yeah! We're humans not Vulcans, we're carbon-based not silicon-based. We are designed as, or have evolved into, omnivores not exclusively herbivore or carnivore. We are creatures driven by emotion. Because we are sentient, we seek pleasure for its own sake (as do even lower animals to some degree). Surely the point of life is more than to just live unto death with logic as our god and as little impact on the environment as possible. To me, giving up frivolous fun b/c its frivolous is akin to becoming a houseplant.

 

Well as the old saying goes, ‘If you can’t be part of the solution then at least be part of the problem.’

Ken, what exactly is the statement of the problem? Is it: people do illogical, inefficient, unproductive things which leads to waste of resources and affects the environment? If so, I'm in!

Well I think Fernando’s replies were largely tongue in cheek to ping those of us on the other side of the issue, but yes the problem is:

 

a) People do illogical, inefficient, unproductive things which leads to waste of resources and affects the environment.

 

b) We don’t have to.

 

c) We could enjoy life and the planet more if we didn’t.

 

d) We would be better stewards of the only planet we have if we'd quit doing it.

 

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If you can’t be part of the solution then at least be part of the problem.

 

No no no. "If you aren't part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate."

 

:-)

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Vicious_Cycler
I am a meatatarian...

EffBee, 10-4 and hell yeah! We're humans not Vulcans, we're carbon-based not silicon-based. We are designed as, or have evolved into, omnivores not exclusively herbivore or carnivore. We are creatures driven by emotion. Because we are sentient, we seek pleasure for its own sake (as do even lower animals to some degree). Surely the point of life is more than to just live unto death with logic as our god and as little impact on the environment as possible. To me, giving up frivolous fun b/c its frivolous is akin to becoming a houseplant.

 

Well as the old saying goes, ‘If you can’t be part of the solution then at least be part of the problem.’

Ken, what exactly is the statement of the problem? Is it: people do illogical, inefficient, unproductive things which leads to waste of resources and affects the environment? If so, I'm in!

Well I think Fernando’s replies were largely tongue in cheek to ping those of us on the other side of the issue, but yes the problem is:

 

a) People do illogical, inefficient, unproductive things which leads to waste of resources and affects the environment.

 

b) We don’t have to.

 

c) We could enjoy life and the planet more if we didn’t.

 

d) We would be better stewards of the only planet we have if we'd quit doing it.

 

Ken, In the end its a value judgement, I suppose:

 

a) because many of us are more human than automaton

 

b) we don't have to, but "Frankly my dear..."

 

c) I guess, if enjoying life is merely a fxn of length of time; I enjoy and am thankful for all the planet provides even when I'm wasteful

 

d) we might be better stewards but I and many others would find much less enjoyment out of life

 

I have never bought the we're killing the planet thing. I believe the planet is quite capable of fighting back. Mother Earth will kill us before she lets us do her in. So what the hell? Live, let live, and lets have a little fun while we're here ( and I'm a Calvinist, for pete's sake!).

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tallman,

 

I've seen those guidelines on CFL cleanup... I don't know what to think about 'em. Seems a bit excessive, but that's me. On a practical level, I just cuss a little, then vacuum up the bits. I might even air out the room, but cussing is the single most effective thing that I can think to do.

 

interesting article on Wikipedia. Scroll down to the part on Mercury emissions.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compact_fluorescent_lamp

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While I'm at it - you farkle types will like this one:

 

I bought a GPS so I use less gas riding/driving around lost! I haven't added it up (I'm not sure that I could!) but I'm certain that it paid for itself on one cross-country trip!

 

:-)

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I installed a geothermal heat pump a few years ago and it has been wonderfull. It is equiped with a desuperheater that provides varing amounts of hot water depending on the season. I currently have my water heater OFF. I am seriously considering on of these as a booster for when I don't get enough heat out of my heat pump. http://www.navienamerica.com/product/ts_heater.aspx?skin=ts_heater

 

I have looked at electric tankless and even put in a 400 amp service with that in mind. but there is only one brand that actually throttles the power to the elements so you get a steady temp regardless of flow. But I am not sold on that brand. The Navien brand is a 98% effecient gas fueled heater. That is only 1% less effecient thatn a tankless electric (they are only 99%). I would have to use propane for mine as natural gas in not available.

 

I also have, though not yet installed, a drain water heat exchanger from here. I have yet to get a plumber out to install it and replumb my 50 year old slow galvinized drain pipe.

 

I also live very close to work. My round trip is less than 6 miles.

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Joe Frickin' Friday
I have looked at electric tankless and even put in a 400 amp service with that in mind. but there is only one brand that actually throttles the power to the elements so you get a steady temp regardless of flow. But I am not sold on that brand. The Navien brand is a 98% effecient gas fueled heater. That is only 1% less effecient thatn a tankless electric (they are only 99%).

 

Um, you are aware that a 99% efficient electric heater is not 99% efficient, right? The power plant that generates the electricity is about 50% efficient, and cross-country transmission of the elctrical power lowers that number even further.

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Well I think Fernando’s replies were largely tongue in cheek to ping those of us on the other side of the issue, but yes the problem is:

 

a) People do illogical, inefficient, unproductive things which leads to waste of resources and affects the environment.

 

b) We don’t have to.

 

c) We could enjoy life and the planet more if we didn’t.

 

d) We would be better stewards of the only planet we have if we'd quit doing it.

 

Some tongue-in-cheek, some to simply say that I refuse to be TOLD by people who claim to know how I should live my life.

 

As for your claim that we could enjoy life and the planet more if we just did it your way, that's exactly what I mean. YOU may enjoy living that way. However, I may not. I understand that. However, based on your statement, I can't see that you do.

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I am a meatatarian. I eat meat. Animals at least have a chance to run away. Vegetables are stuck in the ground. Pulling them up them and eating them is akin picking on the handicapped, in my book.

I too, am a carnivore. Those that don't eat meat are typicaly called herbivores. (Though they prefer to be called 'vegetarian.')

 

Y'know - I walked in a vegetarian restaurant once, by mistake.

I asked for a ham & cheese sandwich, on sourdough.

Oh my!

After I was scathingly told it was a VEGETARIAN restaurant, I naturally modified my order, and instead asked for sliced vegetarian on sourdough. :rofl:

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Ah jeez, when I was a kid, I thought it was fun to play with mercury -- nudge blobs to merge/divide, or coat a penny with the stuff to make it silvery. Between the lead, mercury, airplane dope, nitromethane, gunpowder, and asbestos (I used to make it "snow" by knocking asbestos gloves together), it's a miracle that I'm still alive at 63.

+1 on that. :rofl: I have been thru' all of the above but I've got ways to go. At 41 now, if I make 70, I'll say it's been great.

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interesting article on Wikipedia. Scroll down to the part on Mercury emissions.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compact_fluorescent_lamp

Interesting link. Following up on that paragraph and link 43 from Popular Mechanics, here's what it says.

 

http://www.popularmechanics.com/blogs/home_journal_news/4217864.html

 

How much mercury do power plants emit to light a CFL?

About 50 percent of the electricity produced in the U.S. is generated by coal-fired power plants. When coal burns to produce electricity, mercury naturally contained in the coal releases into the air. In 2006, coal-fired power plants produced 1,971 billion kilowatt hours (kwh) of electricity, emitting 50.7 tons of mercury into the air—the equivalent amount of mercury contained in more than 9 billion CFLs (the bulbs emit zero mercury when in use or being handled).

 

Approximately 0.0234 mg of mercury—plus carbon dioxide, sulfur dioxide and nitrogen oxide—releases into the air per 1 kwh of electricity that a coal-fired power plant generates. Over the 7500-hour average range of one CFL, then, a plant will emit 13.16 mg of mercury to sustain a 75-watt incandescent bulb but only 3.51 mg of mercury to sustain a 20-watt CFL (the lightning equivalent of a 75-watt traditional bulb). Even if the mercury contained in a CFL was directly released into the atmosphere, an incandescent would still contribute 4.65 more milligrams of mercury into the environment over its lifetime.

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So if everyone became a vegetarian what would we do with the animals that are not not being consumed and now contributing to the problem? I mean just because we don't eat them does not mean they are not still going to bread. Do we just kill them off? You do realize that most farm animals raised soley for slaughter are fixed at a young age so they can not reproduce right? If that is stopped due to everyone was a vegetarian what would the population of those animals be? Do vegetarians consume dairy products?

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Dave McReynolds
So if everyone became a vegetarian what would we do with the animals that are not not being consumed and now contributing to the problem? I mean just because we don't eat them does not mean they are not still going to bread. Do we just kill them off? You do realize that most farm animals raised soley for slaughter are fixed at a young age so they can not reproduce right? If that is stopped due to everyone was a vegetarian what would the population of those animals be? Do vegetarians consume dairy products?

 

If everyone would suddenly become a vegetarian tomorrow, this would be a problem. However, I'm sure all the vegetarians of the world would be so overjoyed that they would take in all the excess farm animals as pets and have them neutered.

 

As a practical matter, if there were a serious movement toward vegetarianism, it would not happen overnight. Meat prices would go down over time, and farmers would produce less meat, in the same way they already decide what to plant or grow based on their expectations of future market prices. Beef is a crop, like any other crop, and farmers produce only what they expect to profitably sell.

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So if everyone became a vegetarian what would we do with the animals that are not not being consumed and now contributing to the problem?

Quit creating them of course. No demand = no one breeding and raising them. It’s not like massive herds of cattle, hogs, chickens, etc. are happening on their own. People are intentionally creating these animals to fulfill a market demand for them to make a profit.

 

If that is stopped due to everyone was a vegetarian what would the population of those animals be?

In this hypothetical scenario (everyone became a vegetarian) the population of animals in the food industry would very quickly dwindle dramatically because there would no longer be any money in creating them.

 

Do vegetarians consume dairy products?

“Vegetarian” is a bit of a loose term, but in general a person who doesn’t eat animal flesh or consume any products produced by animals (e.g. dairy products, eggs, leather, etc.) is a Vegan.

 

 

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As for your claim that we could enjoy life and the planet more if we just did it your way, that's exactly what I mean. YOU may enjoy living that way. However, I may not. I understand that. However, based on your statement, I can't see that you do.

Not true, I find immense pleasure in trying to figure out how I can better our family/home efficiency, beat the system rigged to promote excessive consumerism, deny utility and oil companies as many of my hard earned dollars as I can figure out how to, make a small-small dent in how I negatively impact the planet and the rest of humanity.

 

some to simply say that I refuse to be TOLD by people who claim to know how I should live my life.

I too resent people trying to tell me how I should live my life, but from a different perspective – People, companies, always telling me I “have” to have this or that product. That if I don’t buy into their marketing mantra hook line and sinker I won’t (can’t even) be happy. Bombarding me with messages (“brainwashing” is actually the more accurate word) that others won’t even like me or the opposite sex won’t find me attractive unless I do what they say I should. That I’m not smart unless I’m smart enough to buy the latest gadget that comes out today, or live in the right house in the right neighbourhood. ‘And by-the-way how dumb ARE YOU to still be using yesterday’s _______ which yesterday buying/doing it was so smart. (After all we told you then how smart it was.)’

 

Telling me day in and day out to do things that are clearly not in my best interest to do/eat/smoke/buy/go. When in reality they don’t even actually give a _hit about me, they just want me to buy their “stuff.”

 

We’ve been fed a bill of goods. Both literally and figuratively.

 

You want to stick it to the man, I want to stick it to the man. We've just got different "mans" in mind!

 

I find “working the puzzle” on trying to beating them at their own game so to speak - great enjoyment!

 

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Recently, I was discussing with an acquaintance my upcoming travel plans, which will include jet travel, rental cars, and air conditioned hotels. She asked, in a semi-serious but not aggressive way, if given the environmental impacts, perhaps they weren't eco-friendly.

Actually she has a bit of a point. By most any carbon footprint / environmental impact measurement methodology out; there flying in a commercial aircraft is a big ‘demerit.’

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russell_bynum

 

I too resent people trying to tell me how I should live my life, but from a different perspective – People, companies, always telling me I “have” to have this or that product. That if I don’t buy into their marketing mantra hook line and sinker I won’t (can’t even) be happy. Bombarding me with messages (“brainwashing” is actually the more accurate word) that others won’t even like me or the opposite sex won’t find me attractive unless I do what they say I should. That I’m not smart unless I’m smart enough to buy the latest gadget that comes out today, or live in the right house in the right neighbourhood. ‘And by-the-way how dumb ARE YOU to still be using yesterday’s _______ which yesterday buying/doing it was so smart. (After all we told you then how smart it was.)’

 

Telling me day in and day out to do things that are clearly not in my best interest to do/eat/smoke/buy/go. When in reality they don’t even actually give a _hit about me, they just want me to buy their “stuff.”

 

Are you serious? It's easy to ignore advertising. I have a DVR and fast-forward through commercials. I use ad blockers on my web browser. And the ads that do get through....I can just ignore. See...some humans are graced with something called "Free will" so we can decide what we want to do for ourselves. BMW can tell me I need the new R2100SRGS because it's got more power and more buttons than last year's R2000SRGS. I can evaluate that information and say "You know...that would make me happier." or I can say "I don't want any of those things, I can't get full potential out of the bike I'm currently riding, and I'm perfectly happy with what I've got." Free will baby.

 

Tourtech can tell me I need some useless pieces of aluminum bling for my R1200GS and I can say "Nope...that won't add to my enjoyment at all." You, on the other hand, can say "Why yes...I think that's just what I've been looking for to improve the look of my bike...and that's something I want to do. Free will.

 

My primary car is 24 years old and looks like ass. I don't care. It's fun to drive, it meets my needs, and in many ways, I like it better than anything that's out today. I could buy a new car, but I don't want to. Free will!

 

I use CFL's in many sockets in the house. Costco had them on sale and that brought the price down to a point where the electricity savings would be worthwhile fairly quickly. We don't use them in other sockets because we want the light to be on instantly at full brightness, and we prefer the color of incandescent lights in some situations. Free will. (Until the ban takes affect and I'm no longer allowed to make that choice.)

 

See how that works. Yes, humans are pack animals and subject to herd mentality, but we've also got free will and the ability to evaluate the information presented to us and make our own decisions.

 

If you want to deprive yourself of your motorcycle, live in a house the size of a matchbox, use toilets that don't work, and have to wear sweaters all the time because you don't want to turn up the thermostat...that's fine.

 

Just give me ability to make the same choices and stop trying to force your choices down my throat by way of nanny-state government laws telling me what lightbulbs I HAVE to buy and mandating that my toilets don't work and my shower drools.

 

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russell_bynum
In the meantime, where’s everyone else’s lists? There must be more ideas not yet mentioned?

 

I'm not interested in playing the eco-equivalent of "Mine's bigger". (Mine's greener?)

 

 

And I still say that sharing a shower doesn't save any water. Every time we try it, it takes much longer. BTW, does anyone know how to get a shower door back on its tracks? :Cool:

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I am a meatatarian.

:grin:

 

Yep.

 

My wife became a vegetarian because she doesn't like animals being killed. I don't think that her being vegetarian has saved a single cow or pig. What would happen to cows and pigs, if we didn't eat them? What are they doing on the face of the earth? What was nature thinking?

 

I wonder hom much Indu child labor, and energy goes go into the manufacturing, packaging and shipping of a canvas bag they sell at the supermarket for groceries. I also wonder how many people have turned back after driving 2-3 blocks and remembered they left those bags at home.

 

So many things to ponder... I'll think about it tomorrow while I burn some 6-10 gallons of gas riding my bike somewhere I don't have to go and come back home.

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And I still say that sharing a shower doesn't save any water. Every time we try it, it takes much longer. BTW, does anyone know how to get a shower door back on its tracks? :Cool:

 

Not only that, if one is not careful, it may result in the making of... :eek: more humans to continue depleting resources... :rofl:

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