Radar Detectors

[jakfrost]

Thanks Kurt, good to know there is room under the fairing without having to remove it to investigate...

 

Since I would have to use the Bel STi Driver or risk losing the detector from the first RDD that I meet, I have to accept the fact that only the audio alert would be available to me, thru my Autocom.

 

Every now and then I get excited about the possibility of being able to use a quality detector once again, ( I remember BEFORE they were illegal here...), for those occasions where the traffic and road conditions permit some spirited riding, without the stress of a constant 360 degree scan for tax collectors.

 

So your comment about the 5-10 over and just relax has been my mantra for a few years now, and it seems like a lot of effort for the return, and the still possible, 'rebuke'...

 

Jim

[EffBee]

I see the test is now 3yrs old. And rreading between the lines I'd say that the author Craig Peterson may work for or get a kick-back from BuyRadarDetectors.com which would color the test. Valentine only sells direct which means none of the stores can make money recomending a V1 or even sell one. As far as radar from the side being worthless I'm not sure he thought it through. If a police car sits off to the side hidden from view, you may not even se it until you're well past it. Once passed he'll pull out behind you (based on a judgement call) and follow you to give that ticket. I'd like to know where a police car is no matter where he sits.

 

You're probably right about Craig Peterson. As the story goes, he was a "consultant" to the radar detector industry, starting not long after the days of the 55mph NSL when CB manufacturers like Midland, Cobra and others decided to get in the detector business as well. Not knowing much about them, they needed help. At one time, Peterson had almost every manufacturer on his client list, including Escort, where Mike Valentine worked. As such, Peterson was controlling detector progress to small annual increments, first for this paid customer, then for that paid customer. He had a lock on their technology and used that control to insure himself of a paycheck.

 

Valentine is a great deal more educated than Peterson, and was developing technology that was light years ahead of the competition. You may recall there was a time when Escorts won every radar detector comparison test, and did so by a country mile. Peterson could not control Valentine, but he held sway with Escort's ownership, which tried to pressure Valentine to listen more to what Peterson was saying. Valentine was not going to listen to someone who was interested in restricting the growth of technology in order to control a market. He resented being told what to develop and what to ignore. So he left and founded Valentine One Research.

 

Peterson has been disdainful of Valentine ever since, because the technological leaps Valentine has made has shown other detector manufacturers where the benchmark SHOULD be, exposing Peterson's manipulations and costing him many clients.

 

Craig Peterson has been pretty much discredited within the industry and only because of the internet is he even quoted any longer.

 

Anyway, that's how I heard it. I don't know if the facts are correct or not, but the public votes with its dollars, and they've made Valentine the most respected radar detector company in the world.

[Art..]

I am currently running a V1 and a Passport 8500 side by side in my truck. I'm going to be doing some long distance driving later this week.

 

I have 2 weeks to return the Passport. Bought it off Eaby from the Escort factory refurb store.

 

I have been using the V1 for about 5 years now, and it has saved me from many, many tickets.

 

I will report back with my observations.

 

 

 

 

[Paul Mihalka]

Excellent! I hope you find a lot of radar action to compare, but I hope you don't get any written certification for it...

[Art..]

Here is the test bed for the next week or so............

 

[E30TECH]

I'd like to see this info too!

 

How will the sensitivity be set?

[Lmar]

In response to:

Poster: Art..

Subject: Re: Radar Detectors

 

I am currently running a V1 and a Passport 8500 side by side in my truck. I'm going to be doing some long distance driving later this week.

 

I have 2 weeks to return the Passport. Bought it off Eaby from the Escort factory refurb store.

 

I have been using the V1 for about 5 years now, and it has saved me from many, many tickets.

 

I will report back with my observations

 

 

I will be looking forward to your review. I am considering a V1.

[Art..]

I'd like to see this info too!

 

How will the sensitivity be set?

 

The V1 is set to big L, which is Advanced logic mode. This mode filters weak X-band reception, but warns on strong X band.

 

The 8500 is set to Auto Sensitivity mode.

 

From what I have read, these modes only effect X-band sensitivity. I have not received any X-band warnings yet, everything has been Ka.

 

If you would like me to change modes, I'll be happy to. Just let me know what you want.

 

The detectors are mounted side by side on my windshield in the truck. I will be driving 1000 miles over the weekend. We should be able to get some good data.

 

I am particularly interested in how the 8500 picks up rear threats. On Rt 84 between NY and Scranton, there's a bunch of K band construction signs ( the ones that say "Your speed is XX" ) and it will be a good test of sensitivity. Some are pointing at the opposite lane, and will act as a perfect test of rear sensitivity.

[OoPEZoO]

Cool......

 

BTW.....Happy B-day Art!

[Art..]

Thanks Keith

[E30TECH]

Just curious if they will be set as equal as can be.

 

Thanks for doing it

[Fugu]

Art.. I'm interested in your review, but I'm concerned about the detectors interfering with each other.

 

Lots of detectors leak noise. V1 and Escort both claim theirs don't, but who knows if that's marketing hype or not.

 

I don't have any good advice on how to avoid it unless you can put one on one side and one on the other...

 

 

 

 

[Art..]

Art.. I'm interested in your review, but I'm concerned about the detectors interfering with each other.

 

Lots of detectors leak noise. V1 and Escort both claim theirs don't, but who knows if that's marketing hype or not.

 

I don't have any good advice on how to avoid it unless you can put one on one side and one on the other...

 

They both seem to leak noise, but only on startup. Sometimes the V1 sets off the Passport, and sometimes it's the opposite.

 

I have not been getting any false alarms in 3 days of normal driving. Generally, they both are warning of Ka within a half a second of each other.

 

The full review will be coming next week, after I spend a good amount of time with both detectors.

 

No conclusions so far.

 

Edit: The reason I know about the Ka is that the NYS Police have a speed trap set up within a half mile of my office. It's a construction zone on Rt 17 (notorious for it's radar traps) and they've been clocking and ticketing speeders for the last 3 months. I drove through three radar traps in two days already.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[pokorskij]

Please, those are enforcement zones not speed traps.

[Art..]

Generally, they both are warning of Ka within a half a second of each other............The full review will be coming next week, after I spend a good amount of time with both detectors........No conclusions so far.........Edit: The reason I know about the Ka is that the NYS Police have a speed trap set up within a half mile of my office. It's a construction zone on Rt 17 (notorious for it's radar traps) and they've been clocking and ticketing speeders for the last 3 months. I drove through three radar traps in two days already.

 

Please, those are enforcement zones not speed traps.

 

What's your point? I have not come to any conclusions yet.

 

 

[Motor Po-Po]

This is an awesome thread! LOL! Talking about Passport and V1 is like debating politics. I love it! I was in the same boat a few years ago and almost went with the Escort because of the built in audio deal, but went with V1 and love it. The extra "gadget to monkey with" is only a little box with a volume knob. My wife has an Escort in her car and I still like the V1 better. It's funny how you take those arrows for granted until they are not there!

[Fugu]

Please, those are enforcement zones not speed traps.

 

What's your point? I have not come to any conclusions yet.

 

 

I think he was poking fun at speed traps. I mean, selective traffic calming zones.

[Paul Mihalka]

Officers in a well signed school zone, even announced speed cameras or red light cameras (I don't like them) are enforcement zones. A 35mph marked country road winding between houses and driveways is OK and I respect it, but the same road with the same limit has a 1 mile straight with no driveways and the LEO is sitting at the end with a radar gun, is a speed trap.

[Angel]

bump....

and hows the test?

[AdventurePoser]

Hey Phil,

 

I went exactly the opposite way...getting tired of hearing music, conversation and electronic warnings all coming into my helmet, one day I took it all out.

 

Blessed peace, IMHO...If I want some music I stream some Pandora off my phone, or plug my IPod into my earplugs. Other than that, I ride in silence-except for the voiced in my head, of course!

 

The V1? I sold it and just eased up a bit on my right wrist. Works just as well, and is free!

 

Cheers,

Steve

[Art..]

bump....

and hows the test?

 

Glad you asked....

 

Here are my observations..........( and before anybody rips it apart because they feel that the test was unfairly skewed one way or the other, or my methods were flawed, let me just say up front that these are my observations ONLY, and YMMV. If you don't like the way the test was done, do your own test.)

 

The test: V1 vs Passport 8500.

Distance: 1000 miles in 5 days

Test sled: 2007 Ford F150 Crew Cab

States visited: NY, PA, NJ, CT

 

Mounting: Both detectors mounted at mirror height on the windshield.

 

Falsing: You need to know up front that both detectors exhibited a lot of falsing during the test. I attribute this to inter-detector interference, and thus I spent about 200 miles of the test running one detector, then the other, to see if the falsing went away. It did.

 

Fit and finish: Not really important to me. The V1 is a nice package, it has a quality feel to it. The Passport is solid, but feels cheaper.

 

Nice features - V1

 

The arrows - yes they are the best feature overall

Settable mute volume

Auto dimming display

Excellent and solid mounts ( suction and clip )

 

 

 

Nice features - 8500

 

Automute - you never have to touch the detector to mute it

Second mute button on the power cord

Dark mode - Sometimes you don't want to broadcast that you have a detector.

Built in earphone jack

 

Other things you need to know:

 

I travel for a living. I easily rack up 40k miles a year. I always drive with a V1.

 

There are multiple "enforcement zones" in my test route. I got hit by radar at least 40-50 times in the 5 days. Sometimes it was a radar trap, and sometimes it was a speed sign or construction sign with radar.

 

I received enough hits to know which detector warned first.

 

 

Overall Observations:

 

The V1 warns first on just about every valid radar threat. Usually (90%) it's about a half second quicker, but sometimes (10%) it's three seconds faster. Both detectors gave me plenty of warning, the V1 just did it sooner.

 

On rear radar, the V1 blew the Passport away. Easily 6-8 seconds quicker.

 

The arrows are really the key feature. You know immediately where the threat is. Let me give you an example. I was traveling southbound, and both detectors light up. I don't see any threat, but they both go to full warning. As the Escort warning tails off, the V1 goes to side arrow, then to rear. The threat is in the northbound lane, elevated from me and out of sight. It has passed, the V1 is still screaming, and the Escort is silent.

 

I only had one laser warning during the test. The V1 picked up some LED lights in a warning sign. I have had this happen while going through Easypass booths too. The Escort didn't make a peep.

 

The Escort is a nice unit. I own it and I'm going to keep it for my RT. It has some nice features that make it slightly better (my opinion) for motorcycle use, like the built in earphone jack, and the automute. The buttons are on top, which makes it easier to use with gloves on. It is smaller than the V1, and more rounded, so it will be easier to mount or slip into a tankbag.

 

In conclusion, I would (and did) risk my license to either unit. But the V1 is slightly better at sniffing radar, and helping you decide if that radar is a real threat.

 

 

[OoPEZoO]

nice Art......thanks for taking the time

[Paul Mihalka]

Thank you! Very interesting...

[E30TECH]

Thanks Art.

 

The only thing I wish the V1 had was the automute.

[russell_bynum]

Thanks Art.

 

The only thing I wish the V1 had was the automute.

 

What is automute and how does it work?

[Art..]

When the 8500 sounds a warning, the detector chirps at the full volume that the user selected. After about 3 seconds, the volume automatically cuts back to maybe 50%, without the user touching the detector. The automute feature is programmable, on or off.

 

It's nice. I wish my V1 had it.

[russell_bynum]

When the 8500 sounds a warning, the detector chirps at the full volume that the user selected. After about 3 seconds, the volume automatically cuts back to maybe 50%, without the user touching the detector. The automute feature is programmable, on or off.

 

It's nice. I wish my V1 had it.

 

The only time I use the mute feature on the V1 is if there's a LEO following directly behind me with his radar on, or something like that. Otherwise, I either want to still hear about the threat or it'll be gone in a few seconds anyway.

 

Automute doesn't sound like a feature I'd want, but since I haven't used it I can't say for sure. (If the 8500 I used had it, I didn't notice. Maybe that's a good thing?)

[smiller]

And just FYI if you really want a mute the V1 can be user-programmed to entirely mute the alert (instead of dropping to a lower volume level) when you press the mute (volume) button. Normal alerting automatically returns as soon as the currently-monitored signal drops.

[bobbybob]

You can definitely still hear the warning on the Escort's automute, but it takes the "edge" off the chirp so you don't feel the need to turn down the volume temporarily. But you can also completely mute it (for that one warning) if you want by pressing a button on the front of the unit.

[russell_bynum]

You can definitely still hear the warning on the Escort's automute, but it takes the "edge" off the chirp so you don't feel the need to turn down the volume temporarily. But you can also completely mute it (for that one warning) if you want by pressing a button on the front of the unit.

 

OK, so the 8500's automute is like the mute on the V1 except that it happens automatically after 3 seconds. Then you can press the button to get a true "mute" (i.e. no sound for that warning.)

 

Interesting. 3 seconds sounds short to me, but maybe not. If it stays at full volume long enough, I could see that being a nice to have.

[bobbybob]

3 seconds at the Escort's volume seems like an eternity. Yep, its a nice feature to have.

[stubble!]

Awesome writeup. Thanks.

[stubble!]

Didn't even know about automute on my 8500, I'll have to try it

[Lmar]

Thank you, good report.

[Angel]

Thanks ART,

I appreciate your feedback and impressions. I have often wondered if dropping the extra cash for the V1 was actually worth it. Your test and write up was very informative. I read somewhere in the escort propaganda about a 360 degree coverage? maybe not.

IMHO, while the arrows on the V1 indicate where the threat is located (certainly a neat feature). I'm willing to bet that most people will not simply disregard a threat indication because of where its located. Its reasonable to assume that most people will lay off the throttle as soon as the warning indicates a threat without regard for the location of the threat. In other words, the most important information a rider receives is that there IS a threat present.

 

Thanks again Art.

[russell_bynum]

Thanks ART,

 

IMHO, while the arrows on the V1 indicate where the threat is located (certainly a neat feature). I'm willing to bet that most people will not simply disregard a threat indication because of where its located. Its reasonable to assume that most people will lay off the throttle as soon as the warning indicates a threat without regard for the location of the threat. In other words, the most important information a rider receives is that there IS a threat present.

 

 

Certainly, the most important data is that there is a threat.

 

But knowing where the threat is allows you to make the decision "Now what?"

 

This information is way more than just a "neat feature".

[bobbybob]

Thanks ART,

I appreciate your feedback and impressions. I have often wondered if dropping the extra cash for the V1 was actually worth it. Your test and write up was very informative. I read somewhere in the escort propaganda about a 360 degree coverage? maybe not.

IMHO, while the arrows on the V1 indicate where the threat is located (certainly a neat feature). I'm willing to bet that most people will not simply disregard a threat indication because of where its located. Its reasonable to assume that most people will lay off the throttle as soon as the warning indicates a threat without regard for the location of the threat. In other words, the most important information a rider receives is that there IS a threat present.

 

Thanks again Art.

 

++ For my purposes, a radar detector is meant to help keep me safer and ticket-free; not to intentionally speed. I back off the throttle for false alerts too--how can that hurt? The answer to "what now" is simple, regardless of the threat location: "Slow down for a while"!

[russell_bynum]

Thanks ART,

I appreciate your feedback and impressions. I have often wondered if dropping the extra cash for the V1 was actually worth it. Your test and write up was very informative. I read somewhere in the escort propaganda about a 360 degree coverage? maybe not.

IMHO, while the arrows on the V1 indicate where the threat is located (certainly a neat feature). I'm willing to bet that most people will not simply disregard a threat indication because of where its located. Its reasonable to assume that most people will lay off the throttle as soon as the warning indicates a threat without regard for the location of the threat. In other words, the most important information a rider receives is that there IS a threat present.

 

Thanks again Art.

 

++ For my purposes, a radar detector is meant to help keep me safer and ticket-free; not to intentionally speed. I back off the throttle for false alerts too--how can that hurt? The answer to "what now" is simple, regardless of the threat location: "Slow down for a while"!

 

Fair enough.

 

I intend to speed. Or...more accurately...I intend to go whatever speed I feel is appropriate regardless of what the sign on the side of the road says. Most of the time, that means I'm speeding. Basically, the speed limit is something I am aware of, but I only heed it if I suspect enforcement it nearby.

[Zoom]

I have been very happy with my 8500 and Visual Alert combination; saves me daily.

[Fugu]

I intend to speed. Or...more accurately...I intend to go whatever speed I feel is appropriate regardless of what the sign on the side of the road says. Most of the time, that means I'm speeding. Basically, the speed limit is something I am aware of, but I only heed it if I suspect enforcement it nearby.

 

YOU SCOFFLAW ENVIRONMENT RUINING MADMAN!

 

 

(me too)

 

 

Thanks for the report Art, nice to see the V1 is still top of the heap.

 

 

[SageRider]

a radar detector is meant to help keep me safer and ticket-free; not to intentionally speed

I've always loved this argument.

If one is paying attention to their driving and has no desire to speed, then a radar detector is unnecessary.

If one is not paying attention to their driving, then what are they doing driving?

[Fugu]

If one is not paying attention to their driving, then what are they doing driving?

 

Well....

 

I think it's perfectly reasonable to be riding along, alertly looking for hazards, at a reasonable speed for public roadways, and because you are doing those other things and enjoying the ride rather than eyeballing your speedo, you find you are riding smoothly and safely with a good margin for error, hazards, etc., yet you're still way over the posted limits, sometimes because the limits are silly.

 

I have done that. I have found myself in no particular hurry, not intending to go break speed limits, but just having fun and being over, yet still safe.

 

That's when it really sucks to get caught in a dragnet because (last weekend a squid wrecked, there are a lot of DUIs in the area, the coffers need refilling) or whatever the reason du jour is. That takes a great ride and puts a little wet blanket on it.

 

That's different than, for example, leaving at 8 in the morning for a 600 mile ride and arriving in time for happy hour, where your average speed including fuel stops is over the limit and you know damn well you are breaking the law the whole time.

 

I do both.

 

 

PS: Whole different argument independent of speed pros/cons: If they are going to use surveillance, I have a right to use means to detect that surveillance.

[E30TECH]

 

++ For my purposes, a radar detector is meant to help keep me safer and ticket-free; not to intentionally speed. I back off the throttle for false alerts too--how can that hurt? The answer to "what now" is simple, regardless of the threat location: "Slow down for a while"!

 

I bought my V1 since i ran out of other farkles to add.

[PCHRT]

I've always loved this argument.

 

I guess its the frame of mind you're in when you talking about it, ie discussion, debate, argument. I would tend to refer to it as the first as we are all sharing information and opinions. I usually reserve the arguments for that once a month time, and then i ALWAYS wear my helmet indoors!

 

For me i purchased the V1, I like the arrows but agree that even this is a distraction in a distracting environment. Even with a detector you still need to drive aware and SAFE! The V1 is going on the already too fast GT that replaced the Fast enough RT.

 

Ride safe, in the manner you prefer, and at the end of the day your ticket is your own! LOL

 

Great forum, Great Discussion and great test Art!

 

Mark

 

[SageRider]

...and great test Art!

 

Almost forgot to add my thanks also!

[Indy Dave]

glad I re-visited - i missed Art's test. AS I mentioned, I've had both and feel safe with both. The V1 tag line is true however, once you use the arrows, there's no going back. Like many others, I'm put off by the pricey V1 extras IE: headphone jack and 'remote' display.

 

V1 has always been able to upgrade your unit when they make improvements. That's cool. But one wonders - given the smaller and smaller board space needed and other advancements; if a new design will be in the offering soon? Of course, I've been thinking this ever since Escort came out with their 'smart' detector that can learn and have information uploaded from your pc to reduce falsing. Then again, you'd hate to have your detector be programed not to signal you where a known false is, only to have a LEO sitting there with his radar. I V1 display is useful here as well as it indicates the number of sources and 'beep tones' another alert when additional signals come into range. On my way to Indy on I69, I always pass a shopping center that falses. As others have mentioned, you learn the detector, and know. One time I got the usual alert I always do, then an additional one and an added numeric source on the V1 display. Huh?? Back off. Sure enough, in the median is Mr Smokey.

 

Thanks for the effort Art!

 

[FLrider]

Are either of these models waterproof?

 

Has anyone heard of this one?

 

http://www.cyclegadgets.com/Products/product.asp?Item=TPX

[SageRider]

Are either of these models waterproof?

 

Has anyone heard of this one?

 

http://www.cyclegadgets.com/Products/product.asp?Item=TPX

From other threads I'ver read on this board, while the physical features may be nice for a motorcycle, the performance is not up to the Escort / V1 levels. At least for me, performance is the main selection criteria.

[E30TECH]

Are either of these models waterproof?

 

Has anyone heard of this one?

 

http://www.cyclegadgets.com/Products/product.asp?Item=TPX

From other threads I'ver read on this board, while the physical features may be nice for a motorcycle, the performance is not up to the Escort / V1 levels. At least for me, performance is the main selection criteria.

 

I think Whip or ShovelStrokeEd had that unit. I think they no likey.

[Angel]

It was whip.