DonSydney Posted May 10, 2009 Posted May 10, 2009 Hi guys, Have been checking the Clymer manual for my 1100RT with regards bleeding the brakes, and it makes a big noise about how brakes can only be bled by a dealer because of the ABS. True or a cash cow ? Cheers Don
ltljohn Posted May 10, 2009 Posted May 10, 2009 Cash Cow. The brakes are easily be done on these bikes. I have the oh so complicated "whizzy" brakes on my 1150 and they are easy to do. I believe the brakes on the 1100 are even easier. I am sure someone will chime in here soon with particulars. If you have ever bled the brakes on anything you can do your bike, the bike just has a couple of extra steps. Paging Matt and Keith to the tech phone.
Matts_12GS Posted May 10, 2009 Posted May 10, 2009 John, Didn't you help me do my brakes while you were here? The 1100RT brakes bleed like normal brakes for the most part. The 1150 brakes take a bit more effort due to the servos, etc but from what I've read it's nothing that can't be done by someone with enough skill to pull the tupperware and remove the tank.
smiller Posted May 10, 2009 Posted May 10, 2009 They mean the more complex servo brakes on the 1150, not the 1100 (where most of the time you don't even touch the ABS unit when bleeding.) But as was mentioned, owners commonly bleed their own 1150 brakes as well. It's more involved, but certainly doable by the home mechanic.
Perlova Posted May 10, 2009 Posted May 10, 2009 When bleeding on an R1100 is it absolutely necessary to bleed at the ABS pump as well? Does not all of the fluid eventually make it from the reservoir to the caliper if you bleed long enough? Removing the tank is a PITA.
smiller Posted May 10, 2009 Posted May 10, 2009 When bleeding on an R1100 is it absolutely necessary to bleed at the ABS pump as well? Does not all of the fluid eventually make it from the reservoir to the caliper if you bleed long enough? Removing the tank is a PITA. Unless the system has been disturbed or opened (or you have some reason to believe that air got in the lines) you do not have to routinely bleed the ABS unit on the 1100 models. Just bleed from the calipers until you see new fluid, as with any other standard brake system.
ArthurKnowles Posted May 11, 2009 Posted May 11, 2009 Just for my two cents worth, while I know you do not "have" to bleed the ABS resevoir I suggest you do it anyway. I suggest anyone bleeding their R1100RT brake system do it if it has not been done previously or in a very long time. My RT had a front master cylinder replaced by the dealer. So I know they bled the system. Still, when I bleed the ABS resevoir I removed a lot of brown sludge doing so. Afterwards, I had clean fluid in all the lines and really good brakes too. I put SS lines on it at the same time, which may also have had something to do with it.
smiller Posted May 11, 2009 Posted May 11, 2009 I suggest anyone bleeding their R1100RT brake system do it if it has not been done previously or in a very long time. I don't disagree, it can't hurt to do it every once in a while. I also got a little brown stuff from my ABS unit when I switched to SS braided lines, but it was a small amount and it took 100k miles for even that much to form. So while I wouldn't call it a great concern one might want to consider bleeding the ABS unit on occasion when you have the tank off for some other service. I was only saying that it isn't necessary to do it on a routine basis with every brake bleed.
Trullion Posted May 11, 2009 Posted May 11, 2009 I've just replaced the master cylinder on my R1100RS. I didn't use a power bleeder, nor did I bleed the system at the ABS unit. There's no need to do either. The biggest PITA was dealing with the heated grip (twist grip) side, as you have to remove it to remove the master cylinder off. Also, somewhat bizarrely, the union at the L/H caliper sprang a leak as I was bleeding the system. I just annealed the copper washers and reconnected it. Having bled most of the air out of the system I then tied back the brake lever and left it overnight. Job done; no special tools and I didn't even remove the tank. I agree that bleeding the ABS unit may be worthwhile every now and again. Regards
ArthurKnowles Posted May 12, 2009 Posted May 12, 2009 I was only saying that it isn't necessary to do it on a routine basis with every brake bleed. I would not disagree with that either. I'm just a bit anal retentive when it comes to brakes I guess. I've had too many other vehicles with poor brakes that I needed to make sure I could get 100% of the available stopping power and reliability out of them.
JonathanE Posted May 12, 2009 Posted May 12, 2009 Personally (and FWIW since I'm just a hack amateur BMW shadetree wrench), but I believe that it's a great idea to bleed non-servo R11xx BMWs at the ABS unit whenever you can take the time to pull the tank. Once the tank is off, it's much easier than bleeding the wheel cylinders. True, it's a bit more of a hassle with an RT than with a GS (I pulled my GS tank today in under five minutes). If you're doing a medium sized or larger service, than you've got the tupperware off already, so just yank the tank and bleed the brakes at the ABS as well. It's only another 15 minutes or so (depending on whether you have already installed fuel line QDs). Remember! The ABS bleeder is THE hign point in the rear brake circuit, and it is a local high point in the front circuit as well. What that means, is that air that collects at the ABS bleeders, stays there forever, or until you bleed it out. This makes your brakes spongy. Once you've done it at least once, you may not need to do it very often, but the improvement in your brakes will probably motivate you to do it every time you possibly can from then on out.
HRminneapolis Posted May 14, 2009 Posted May 14, 2009 my RTP had a slice in the front brake line when I bought it. I didnt know this but found out a year later when I finally got back in the Midwest and started putting fluid in it. I just put fluid in the master cylinder, cracked the caliper bleeder valve, pump, refill, pump, refill. Two years later the front brakes (and ABS) on this thing are solid, progressive, and have great power and feel. Maybe I just got lucky, but no horror stories from me on these brakes.
HRminneapolis Posted May 14, 2009 Posted May 14, 2009 oh yeah, AFTER squirting brake fluid all over the ground and installing a new hose!!!
philbytx Posted May 14, 2009 Posted May 14, 2009 I have the ABSII brkes on my R1100R and did a "quickie" brake bleed soon after I bought it. After another 4k, I then did a complete brake bleed this time and got some "grungy" fluid out of the ABSII unit. The brake lever actually felt firmer. I would definitely bleed the ABS unit as part of a full service, especially with all the tupperware and tank off an RT!!
Sunny Ragtop Posted May 18, 2009 Posted May 18, 2009 Help Needed--Rear brake bleeding problem on 1996 R1100RT Using a hand pump brake bleed I did my front 2 just fine. After bleeding my rear from the nipple on the caliper my pedal had no firmness. Tried to bleed AGAIN and NOTHING would come out. I mean no air and no fluid. Took the nipple off and it's not clogged. Took off the tank, tried to bleed from the ABS nipple and same thing. NOTHING comes out! My BMW shops are closed today and may not even help me since I decided to save over $150 and try it myself. My hubby helped a little but has no idea why fluid stopped coming out. Thank You Diana Harrisburg NC
Edgar Posted May 18, 2009 Posted May 18, 2009 You did find and fill the reservoir on the right side frame member behind the black removable triangle correct?
Sunny Ragtop Posted May 18, 2009 Posted May 18, 2009 You did find and fill the reservoir on the right side frame member behind the black removable triangle correct? Yes. My husband kept fluid pouring in the Rear Brake reservoir as I was pumping fluid through the nipple. We thought all was fine until pressure never built up in the pedal. I'm very sure I've got lots of air in the system by now. I assume taking the nipples totally out to see if they were clogged let plenty in. A few minutes ago I took the lid off the Resv. hooked my hose on the rear caliper nipple, loosened it, and began to use my hand pump. No fluid comes out, but as the pumping continues the vacuum lowers the fluid level in the reservoir by about 1/3rd and I can hear a hissing sound of air in the reservoir area. As soon as I stop pumping & tighten the nipple the fluid returns to the original level (almost overflowing. Nothing changes when I press the rear pedal repeatedly as I have the nipple open and the pump going. I'm so disappointed in myself. I was brave enough to change the battery which BMW quoted $152 that I thought I might could do the brake system.
ArthurKnowles Posted May 19, 2009 Posted May 19, 2009 I don't know if this will help or not, but just in case ... Look at the rear brake pedal mechanism. If you look closely you will find the actual rod that pushes on the rear brake master cylinder. It is very easy for this rod to fall out of place. If it is not lined up in the rubber strech gasket (not sure what to call it) properly and does not make physical contact with the rear master cylinder you will never get any pressure to the rear brake calipers. So it may be worth your while just to verify it is asembled correctly and the rod did not fall out of place. You should also look at the rear master cylinder for potential leaks.
Woodie Posted May 19, 2009 Posted May 19, 2009 Sunny, where are you? (please fill out your profile) Any chance of one of us stopping by to take a look?
Sunny Ragtop Posted May 19, 2009 Posted May 19, 2009 Problem Solved! I’m a MORON…or I guess it was really my husband. We did NOT take out the rear reservoir “diaphragm!” Nope, neither he nor I noticed. He poured fluid in the container as I was bleeding the rear. Pretty soon I guess the diaphragm sealed to the bottom (just as I had finished) and was more of a swimming pool liner with fluid on top. No wonder no fluid or air would come out either the caliper or the ABS nipple. I called the BMW shop that did my brake service last and said an electrical test and mechanical test would have to be done on the system thinking maybe a motor problem or a valve not opening. The other BMW shop mechanic laughed and said I bet I know exactly what it is since riders do it all the time. Check to make sure you took the rubber diaphragm out. As soon as I got home I checked. So happy the problem was found I started even in my good work clothes and with no help. I bleed the reservoir almost dry 2 times from the ABS nipple. No rear brake pressure. Did it again and nothing. Bled from the rear caliper nipple and YES…I HAVE BRAKES!! Very cool. I just saved over $400 by changing my own battery, bleeding my brakes and changing my oil. Should I try changing the fluid in the drive & gear box? Hmmm. Now the hard part soon as I finish typing this…putting it all back together.
bmwdenk Posted June 1, 2009 Posted June 1, 2009 That's funny your having trouble withyour 96', So am I. I keep bleeding and bleeding and bleeding and get no pressure. I just noticed last week that my back brake pedal got very spongy like air was in the system but I havn't craked a line since I bought it last Sept. It was due for a bleed and this prompted it. I've bled plenty of brakes in the past and this thread so me it can be done with or without going into the ABS system. I'm just a little frustrated that it seems like alot of air has gotten in the system and I have no idea how. Other then the high points in the ABS system that was talked about. Anyways if anyone has a suggestion or has an idea as to how the air got in??? The hoses are fine the reservior keeps fluid and I see no leaks anywhere?
Sunny Ragtop Posted June 1, 2009 Posted June 1, 2009 I knew I had air in the rear brakes especially after leaving the rubber diaphram in and pumping it dry. Since I have a radio in my left storage pocket it was gonna be a job to actually remove the tank & I didn't want to figure out what to do with the hoses ect. Solution? I had my husband lift the seat end of the tank as high as possible so I would be able to attach the bleed hose and fit a wrench up under there. With his other hand he would pour brake fluid in the resevoir. I was on the left side of the bike (since the rear bleed nipple is) and he stood on the right side. We then re-bleed from the rear caliper nipple...just in case. All works fine now so I guess I got all the air out What a pain removing all the plastic.
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