Final Drive Service

[TestPilot]

I just read a post on the MOA Hexhead Forum that says the latest final drive oil volume specification is 200 ml total or 180 ml refill for 2005 and later motorcycles. Can anyone confirm?

[BarOne]

Just did this service on my 05 RT last weekend -- checked with dealer and on this Board. Answer 220ml.

 

Thought we would se you the Tech daze! You missed a good on.

[marcopolo]

That post on the MOA Forums about new FD fill quantities was made by someone who (I believe) works at a dealership, so I wouldn't dismiss it. He said he had read this new info and that it was contained in the latest maintenance schedules. That last part of his post confused me as I don't recall seeing any quantities on maintenance schedules. Maybe I misunderstood what he meant.

[JayW]

Has anyone seen this information in a written format from BMW?

 

Jay

[Mike S]

I have the R model Service Manual CD dated 2/2009 (3rd edition), and it says 220ml. It also shows a break in service interval at 600 miles, and a 2 year/12K regular service.

 

Mike

[Don_Eilenberger]

Has anyone seen this information in a written format from BMW?

 

Jay

Based on who posted it - it's gospel. C-Jack is a great resource for info (he works at a dealership part-time and often spots/reports on things before they become "general" interwebz knowledge..)

[Don_Eilenberger]

I have the R model Service Manual CD dated 2/2009 (3rd edition), and it says 220ml. It also shows a break in service interval at 600 miles, and a 2 year/12K regular service.

 

Mike

The service bulletin was 05/09.

 

http://www.bmwmoa.org/forum/showthread.php?t=35751

[JayW]

Okay, I just changed the FD oil in my '05 RT and refilled with 180cc of BMW synthetic 75W-90 gear lube. This was its 3rd change in 50K miles, but I used 230cc volume the last 2 times. This FD maintenance sure turned out to be more complicated than the "lifetime" fill touted when I bought the thing. What's an OCD guy to do?

 

Jay

[rglassma]

Lube the splines... It will make you feel better...

[hopz]

Hey, Jay... by my measure, you are about 40cc short of a full lube, not counting any that was left in the hose or funnel or ever how you got it in there.

 

Any particular reason for going with 180 vs, say the 220?

[JayW]

Hey, Jay... Any particular reason for going with 180 vs, say the 220?

 

180cc is apparently the new refill volume recommendation from BMW for Hexhead final drives. See the original poster's comment and the similar posting on the BMWMOA site.

 

Jay

[planepaul]

My only notion for the reduced FD oil quantity is that of fluid pressure (squirt?) off of the gears themselves challenging the seal integrity. It is certainly not air pressure incurred in the closed system. In that case, seal failures should be a function of maximum speeds ridden. I'd be curious to know how fast the seal-failed FDs had typically been ridden.

Paul in CA

'05 R1200RT

[Don_Eilenberger]

Hey, Jay... by my measure, you are about 40cc short of a full lube, not counting any that was left in the hose or funnel or ever how you got it in there.

 

Any particular reason for going with 180 vs, say the 220?

Uhhh.. see above two postings..

[hopz]

I concede, mea culpa.

[97oilhead]

If the new level turns out to be 180mm can someone check to see how much they add before it comes to the side plug on the early R1200RT's?

 

I just serviced mine 1000 mile ago so if I can get a relationship to the level on the side drain it would save emptying and starting again.

 

Thanks,

 

Nick

[AZgman]

If the new level turns out to be 180mm can someone check to see how much they add before it comes to the side plug on the early R1200RT's?

 

I just serviced mine 1000 mile ago so if I can get a relationship to the level on the side drain it would save emptying and starting again.

 

Thanks,

 

Nick

 

 

About 200 ml to the bottom of the side drain based on my rough measurements, which means you won't have to fill through the ABS sensor anymore.

[TestPilot]

About 200 ml to the bottom of the side drain based on my rough measurements, which means you won't have to fill through the ABS sensor anymore.

 

Which leads me to ask, did BMW change the numbers just so that removing the speed sensor is no longer required? Perhaps too many technicians were messing up the speed sensors.

[Tech1]

When I changed the final drive fluid, I let it drain overnight. Then I tied it up so the plug was was at the 3 (or 9) o'clock position. It took almost exactly 220ml to run out the plug hole. It confirmed my suspicions that this was the intended use for the plug in that location.

I work as an engineering tech and one of my jobs is to determine fill levels for products that just so happen to use gear lubricants. In applications similar to the final drive, we try to set levels so that the oil will wet the seals. A safe level for this is mid shaft level, but you could be slightly lower and be safe. Lower oil levels, as long as everything gets adequate lubrication, will reduce temperature because of lower windage in the gears and bearings. With a sealed case, there will also be more compressable air volume, which with lower temperatures, will reduce seal pressure.

Bottom line, maybe BMW realized a slight advantage to lowering the level slightly, maybe they were also trying to reduce the chance of "over" filling.

 

Gary

2005 1200RT

[AZgman]

About 200 ml to the bottom of the side drain based on my rough measurements, which means you won't have to fill through the ABS sensor anymore.

 

Which leads me to ask, did BMW change the numbers just so that removing the speed sensor is no longer required? Perhaps too many technicians were messing up the speed sensors.

 

If you have a bottom drain (2008 on) you won't have to remove the ABS sensor, but if you only have a side plug, you will still have to remove the ABS sensor to pivot the rear drive down to drain the old oil out.

[97oilhead]

Sounds like BWM is adjusting the fluid levels to make regular maintenance easy with the new units that have drain and fill holes?

[JayW]

I clean and lube the splines at each FD lube change, which cannot be done without removing the sensor.

 

Jay

[Dave_C]

I always hear about lubing the splines. Do you have a picture or can you tell me how, what it is? I have a 2006 r1200rt retrofitted with a new FD(after a failure at 35,600 miles)

[TestPilot]

I always hear about lubing the splines. Do you have a picture or can you tell me how, what it is? I have a 2006 r1200rt retrofitted with a new FD(after a failure at 35,600 miles)

 

Check Jim von Baden's web site under Pictorials, R1200 Final Drive ( Link ). Scroll down to item 7.

[hopz]

When you drop the final drive for a drain... you have to disengage the drive shaft... this joint is within the rubber bellows looking thing. the first time you do it it is scary and intimidating. Oh no- how will I ever get it back!

 

Actually it turns out to be pretty easy. After the disengagement occurs you get molly grease on your finger and apply all around the splines- reinstall..

[Redbrick]

I always hear about lubing the splines. Do you have a picture or can you tell me how, what it is? I have a 2006 r1200rt retrofitted with a new FD(after a failure at 35,600 miles)

 

Here's Phil's most excellent pictorial of the final drive service...

 

http://bmwsporttouring.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=424310&page=1

[HandyAndy]

I have always wondered,

If lubing the splines is so important why is there no reference to it in the Maintenance Shedual?

Is this just "Tribal Knowledge" or is there some documentation from BMW that this is required?

 

Andy.

 

 

[JayW]

..you get molly grease on your finger and apply all around the splines- reinstall..

 

Honda sells a product (I think its called Moly 60) that a lot of folks use, though I use the lube that BMW sells for this purpose. I paid $13 for one tube which will last a lifetime.

 

Jay

 

 

[Don_Eilenberger]

I have always wondered,

If lubing the splines is so important why is there no reference to it in the Maintenance Shedual?

Is this just "Tribal Knowledge" or is there some documentation from BMW that this is required?

 

Andy.

 

Driveshaft lube was much more important on earlier bikes with the Monolever (rather than Paralever) rear suspension. The K bike in particular..

 

On the Monolever bikes - the driveshaft only had one universal joint - that was near the transmission output coupling. The other end - which connected to the rear drive not only moved in/out on the splines as the suspension moved up and down, it also had a rocking motion on the splines. The combination was enough to cause wear rather quickly on the splines, especially if they weren't kept lubricated.

 

The current R1200xx driveshaft/paralever suspension maintains orientation throughout the travel of the suspension - and with two universal joints - there is no rocking motion. It is much less prone to wear. So while it's a good thing to keep the splines lubricated - it isn't (IMHO) as vital as it was with the older design.

 

Sorta the same thing as BMW riders fanatically centerstanding their bikes, or only adjusting throttle sync on the right side throttle body. Old history - no longer relevant - effecting current actions.

[Don_Eilenberger]

..you get molly grease on your finger and apply all around the splines- reinstall..

 

Honda sells a product (I think its called Moly 60) that a lot of folks use, though I use the lube that BMW sells for this purpose. I paid $13 for one tube which will last a lifetime.

 

Jay

 

Jay,

 

This hopefully isn't #10 lube.. BMW's mistake lube. It's the red stuff that comes in a large toothpaste sort of tube. It has some poor properties like becoming liquid at about 160F, making it totally unsuitable for the use it was sold for. It is good for things like door hinges on cars or your house.. I wouldn't put it anywhere near anything on my bike. There is a longish story about how BMW-NA ordered the wrong grease - a LOT of the wrong grease when they were trying to get an improved spline grease to the dealers/customers. I won't bore you with it..

 

My current favorite lube (also Paul Glave's) is Wurth's Green Sticky Grease. Stuff has stickiness about like chewing gum, and appears to really stay in place and lubricate. I'm sure there is a Wurth number for it - but a Google of "Wurth grease" should turn it up.

[smiller]

This hopefully isn't #10 lube..

It's not. He's refering to Honda Moly 60 lube... good stuff...

[JayW]

It's not. He's refering to Honda Moly 60 lube..

 

The BMW lube I was referring to is in a small white tube. The lube itself is a translucent tan-yellow color. It does not sound like the red stuff you are referring to. Thanks for the warning though.

 

Jay

[rglassma]

I have a tube of the Moly 60 and use it for my final drive splines and have used it for the bendix gear on my starter that was squealing. Seems to be great stuff.