Raising the noise about noise

[beemerman2k]

 

Apparently, not everyone is enthusiastic about the arrival of riding season. This story made the local news here in Boston:

 

http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/player/popup/?rn=4226712&cl=13379630&src=news

 

Hmmm, think I should take those "Screamin' Eagles" off the RT? :smile:

[4wheeldog]

I have the stock "Choked chicken" pipes on my RT, and I have yet to find a "Screamin' eagle" that I could not pass.

[Kathy R]

Loud pipes are a real turn off. There is a saying the ladies have for men with loud pipes....

[smiller]

There is a saying the ladies have for men with loud pipes....

Men have the same saying.

[DaveTX]

Maybe the problem reaches different levels in various areas of the country.

 

Having been an exclusive Harley rider for 39 years before buying my RT recently, the loud noise problem is one that I tried to address with fellow riders for quire a long time. As a former MSF instructor, a member of the Governor's Motorcycle safety advisory board, and the H-D State Safety Coordinator for Texas, I was involved in a lot of 'behind the scenes' conversations with a lot of folks in the motorcycle world, and our state government. The topic of loud pipes came up often, and I think I have heard every argument both pro and con on the topic.

 

While I fully agree that some riders carry it to the extreme and their actions may end up eventually penalizing all of us, I have an even bigger pet peeve about all the cars with loud stereos and crap rap music penetrating our brains with sound levels only rivaled by a B-1 Bomber taking off.

 

I'm all for existing laws on the books being enforced.... as long as riders are not singled out just because they ride motorcycles.

 

Quite by accident (and nature), I have discovered the perfect motivation for riding 'quiet' motorcycles.... getting old. Loud noises of any kind just are not that appealing anymore.

[pbbeck]

Does that guy in the video really believe that his pipes have saved him 50 or 60 times?!! As they say in Boston, he's a wicked retahd!

[lvnvbiker]

My HD has an Thunderheader on it and I will be the first to say that it is a bit loud, but in the defence of a portion on the loud pipe folks there are few quiet options available. For any performance modded HD the stock pipes do rob power and we all know that they need all the help they can get.

[John Bentall]

OK, the average guy walks into an HD shop. Two sets of pipes are offered giving the same performance improvement, one set EPA-noise-compliant and the other plain loud.

Which set is he going to choose?

 

On our group rides I say well back from any 1200GS with an Akrapovic pipe. I can't stand the noise.

[gasser]

Amen, Dave.

As a recovering noise-a-holic, and as a direct result of riding an RT, I enjoy the sound of the engine purring, not offending. Maybe it is an age thing, but I have converted all of my HD's back to street legal pipes and enjoy the factory sound. I intentionally do not rev my bikes around pedestrians and must admit on a recent trip through New Mexico I felt self conscious about disturbing the wild life with even street-legal pipes. It may be hard for many of this forum to accept but the MOCO (HD) is aware of this and trying to tone down (pun intended)the roar.

[Lmar]

My brother is into Harleys. His present bike is a Soft tail custom with the Screaming Eagle package. We usually take a couple week long trips during the year. I am usually in the lead because of the noise factor. If he is in lead, I usually stay back a mile or so to keep away from the noise.

 

We camp and we are early birds. We usually take off between 6:00 & 7:00 am. I'm sure he wakes up the entire camp ground when he fires it up.

 

Its not my thing.

[RSR]

You know what they say " There are two kinds of people in the world those who ride motorcycles and those who listen to people riding motorcycles."

[upflying]

My cop bike has a Screaming Eagle kit that includes increased noise, modified pipes. Unless the pipes are open (aka straight exhaust) I do not write exhaust tickets.

Part of the problem with enforcement has to do with the technical issues of noise and definition of "modified". You need a decibel meter to measure the noise and the officer needs to be an expert in what exactly modified means. Unfortunately I am an expert in neither and I cannot testify in court if my ticket is contested.

[fourteenfour]

Well the loud pipes gang got bikes banned from a local park in Georgia... you can park at the front and make use of in park transit.

 

Thanks a lot guys. (pointing at the HD and Sportbike squids)

[Mister Tee]

There is a saying the ladies have for men with loud pipes....

Men have the same saying.

 

+1 Bwahahahahahaaha!

[WURTY]

There is a new law in Calif about to be signed by the Govenator.

It will require all bikes manufactured after Jan 1, to be smog tested every 2 years.

Any modifications made to these bikes will not allow it to pass smog including replacing the stock exhaust pipes with louder ones.

I get a kick out of seeing stock pipes for sale on Craigslist.

A smart man would be buying them all up and then reselling them after the bill is signed at 5 times the amount.

 

[tallman]

[Tech1]

Most of the legislation always makes it too hard to enforce. All they need is a "nuisance" law, limiting the maximum db measured by an officer, no distance or equipment checks required. Simply, if the offender creates a db level of more than let's say, 92dbA, he gets a fine. It isn't perfect, but it is more enforceable. This type of law was being considered in some boating areas because it avoids the difficult equipment checks. It still requires a meter and proper use, but that isn't difficult. In my line of work I check noise levels of the product I work on and have had to teach others, not any more difficult than a radar gun.

[4wheeldog]

I have been stopped and thanked several times by neighbors and people at places I frequent, for having quiet pipes on my bikes. I like being able to sneak up and park without anyone noticing my approach.

 

Loud pipes piss off the public.........Whether they get the chance to tell you or not.

[FLTRI]

My cop bike has a Screaming Eagle kit that includes increased noise, modified pipes.

 

So did my first one. The next one I was issued was stock, and the mechanics kept it that way. While I enjoy the sound of a well tuned engine (v-twin, in line four, V-8 or whatever) it gets old after a while...

 

I have noticed the 20-something squid sport bike crowd is increasingly modding (open exhaust) their pipes around Las Vegas, so it's not just for v-twins anymore...

[pbbeck]

There is a new law in Calif about to be signed by the Govenator.

It will require all bikes manufactured after Jan 1, to be smog tested every 2 years.

Any modifications made to these bikes will not allow it to pass smog including replacing the stock exhaust pipes with louder ones.

I get a kick out of seeing stock pipes for sale on Craigslist.

A smart man would be buying them all up and then reselling them after the bill is signed at 5 times the amount.

 

First I've heard of this... wouldn't surprise me at all. Do you have any links to other sources I could check out?

[Kathy R]

My cop bike has a Screaming Eagle kit that includes increased noise, modified pipes. Unless the pipes are open (aka straight exhaust) I do not write exhaust tickets.

Part of the problem with enforcement has to do with the technical issues of noise and definition of "modified". You need a decibel meter to measure the noise and the officer needs to be an expert in what exactly modified means. Unfortunately I am an expert in neither and I cannot testify in court if my ticket is contested.

 

Hi Bob,

 

Do you know what the decible level is on your work bike? Why is that work bike modified, meaning not stock?

 

Since most of the public may not know very much about motorcycles, they might think bikes have to be loud and so they wish to ban them all. I mean, how many people hear stock pipes go by, no matter the brand? If they are only aware of the loud ones, they will assume all motorcycles are loud. It will appear to them that only a few are quiet, simply because the don't announce themselves.

 

 

[Tony_K]

There is a new law in Calif about to be signed by the Govenator.

It will require all bikes manufactured after Jan 1, to be smog tested every 2 years.

Any modifications made to these bikes will not allow it to pass smog including replacing the stock exhaust pipes with louder ones.

I get a kick out of seeing stock pipes for sale on Craigslist.

A smart man would be buying them all up and then reselling them after the bill is signed at 5 times the amount.

 

First I've heard of this... wouldn't surprise me at all. Do you have any links to other sources I could check out?

 

Just the facts and results here.

 

http://www.aroundthecapitol.com/Bills/SB_435

[pbbeck]

thanks! Looks like they've found another revenue stream. Just another reason I'm glad I ride a BMW with a QUIET, stock exhaust.

[mrduck]

This noise issue is something the off-road community has been dealing with for a few years now. It is possible to make quiet horsepower, but some choose to replace the stock exhaust with some loud aftermarket pipe, thus causing this problem.

 

I see where 17 mile drive in Monterey is closed to MC's, and I understand why.

 

From what I've read on the California smog test for MC's it will be a visual check only to make sure the exhaust is compliant.

 

 

 

Don J

 

 

[Boone60]

Loud motorcycles (cars, and trucks too) suck.

[upflying]

My cop bike has a Screaming Eagle kit that includes increased noise, modified pipes. Unless the pipes are open (aka straight exhaust) I do not write exhaust tickets.

Part of the problem with enforcement has to do with the technical issues of noise and definition of "modified". You need a decibel meter to measure the noise and the officer needs to be an expert in what exactly modified means. Unfortunately I am an expert in neither and I cannot testify in court if my ticket is contested.

 

 

Hi Bob,

 

Do you know what the decible level is on your work bike? Why is that work bike modified, meaning not stock?

 

Since most of the public may not know very much about motorcycles, they might think bikes have to be loud and so they wish to ban them all. I mean, how many people hear stock pipes go by, no matter the brand? If they are only aware of the loud ones, they will assume all motorcycles are loud. It will appear to them that only a few are quiet, simply because the don't announce themselves.

 

I do not know the dB level of my work bike but I do know it is way louder than stock. The police bikes are kitted for a bit more power at public expense. The decision to kit the bikes and install loud exhaust was done by command staff.

In some LEO opinions, loud police bikes announce their presence and could convey an aura of superiority. Doesn't mean mean loud and quiet means weak or timid? What if a citizen complains about an area of traffic violations? Loud police bikes conveys a message to that citizen that we are in the area and enforcing traffic laws. LEO bikes are sometimes used in crowd control. To some, loud police bikes have an image of "mean and bad" and psychologically motivate non-compliant people into voluntary submission. Picture a traffic cop who rides a Vespa and you get the idea. What is more fearful, an F-16 on afterburner flying overhead or a Piper Warrior? Which aircraft by it's mere presence will gain voluntary compliance to stop aggression? Unfortunately that is what cops do and some of the tools cops use to stop unlawful acts is command presence. A loud HD is basically just another tool.

 

I have had no verbal complaints from the public who think my bike is too loud. Like you suggested, they probably assume they are all loud since they are so accustomed to it.

 

[Boone60]

My cop bike has a Screaming Eagle kit that includes increased noise, modified pipes. Unless the pipes are open (aka straight exhaust) I do not write exhaust tickets.

Part of the problem with enforcement has to do with the technical issues of noise and definition of "modified". You need a decibel meter to measure the noise and the officer needs to be an expert in what exactly modified means. Unfortunately I am an expert in neither and I cannot testify in court if my ticket is contested.

 

 

Hi Bob,

 

Do you know what the decible level is on your work bike? Why is that work bike modified, meaning not stock?

 

Since most of the public may not know very much about motorcycles, they might think bikes have to be loud and so they wish to ban them all. I mean, how many people hear stock pipes go by, no matter the brand? If they are only aware of the loud ones, they will assume all motorcycles are loud. It will appear to them that only a few are quiet, simply because the don't announce themselves.

 

I do not know the dB level of my work bike but I do know it is way louder than stock. The police bikes are kitted for a bit more power at public expense. The decision to kit the bikes and install loud exhaust was done by command staff.

In some LEO opinions, loud police bikes announce their presence and could convey an aura of superiority. Doesn't mean mean loud and quiet means weak or timid? What if a citizen complains about an area of traffic violations? Loud police bikes conveys a message to that citizen that we are in the area and enforcing traffic laws. LEO bikes are sometimes used in crowd control. To some, loud police bikes have an image of "mean and bad" and psychologically motivate non-compliant people into voluntary submission. Picture a traffic cop who rides a Vespa and you get the idea. What is more fearful, an F-16 on afterburner flying overhead or a Piper Warrior? Which aircraft by it's mere presence will gain voluntary compliance to stop aggression? Unfortunately that is what cops do and some of the tools cops use to stop unlawful acts is command presence. A loud HD is basically just another tool.

 

I have had no verbal complaints from the public who think my bike is too loud. Like you suggested, they probably assume they are all loud since they are so accustomed to it.

 

Shouldn't this stance about using noise as force, also directly apply to squad cars which desperately need to be fitted with a more open exhaust like a race car instead of a weakling, granny stock exhaust?

[beemerman2k]

Sometimes I will hear a Harley with aftermarket pipes and the sound is quite tasteful. You can appreciate the big V-twin engine from the sound; it's throaty, not loud or offensive.

 

Whenever I am at Bike Week in New Hampshire (every June) someone will comment on how quiet my RT is and thank me for it. I love quiet! I like to hear the sweet sound of the engine, and the world around me as I explore new territory.

[Pilgrim]

OK, the average guy walks into an HD shop. Two sets of pipes are offered giving the same performance improvement, one set EPA-noise-compliant and the other plain loud.

Which set is he going to choose?

 

On our group rides I say well back from any 1200GS with an Akrapovic pipe. I can't stand the noise.

 

I chose the EPA pipe. Does that mean I'm not average? Above? Below? What?

 

Actually, no EPA-compliant pipe on a Harley is going to give the performance that a tuned (read: "loud") pipe does. But everything is a tradeoff, so I gave up maybe 5hp and got a quieter ride.

 

Pilgrim

[Kathy R]

My cop bike has a Screaming Eagle kit that includes increased noise, modified pipes. Unless the pipes are open (aka straight exhaust) I do not write exhaust tickets.

Part of the problem with enforcement has to do with the technical issues of noise and definition of "modified". You need a decibel meter to measure the noise and the officer needs to be an expert in what exactly modified means. Unfortunately I am an expert in neither and I cannot testify in court if my ticket is contested.

 

 

Hi Bob,

 

Do you know what the decible level is on your work bike? Why is that work bike modified, meaning not stock?

 

Since most of the public may not know very much about motorcycles, they might think bikes have to be loud and so they wish to ban them all. I mean, how many people hear stock pipes go by, no matter the brand? If they are only aware of the loud ones, they will assume all motorcycles are loud. It will appear to them that only a few are quiet, simply because the don't announce themselves.

 

I do not know the dB level of my work bike but I do know it is way louder than stock. The police bikes are kitted for a bit more power at public expense. The decision to kit the bikes and install loud exhaust was done by command staff.

In some LEO opinions, loud police bikes announce their presence and could convey an aura of superiority. Doesn't mean mean loud and quiet means weak or timid? What if a citizen complains about an area of traffic violations? Loud police bikes conveys a message to that citizen that we are in the area and enforcing traffic laws. LEO bikes are sometimes used in crowd control. To some, loud police bikes have an image of "mean and bad" and psychologically motivate non-compliant people into voluntary submission. Picture a traffic cop who rides a Vespa and you get the idea. What is more fearful, an F-16 on afterburner flying overhead or a Piper Warrior? Which aircraft by it's mere presence will gain voluntary compliance to stop aggression? Unfortunately that is what cops do and some of the tools cops use to stop unlawful acts is command presence. A loud HD is basically just another tool.

 

I have had no verbal complaints from the public who think my bike is too loud. Like you suggested, they probably assume they are all loud since they are so accustomed to it.

 

Eh, Bob, I'm not feeling some of that.

 

The bicycle mounted police in Chicago get as much respect as when in their squad car, because they are wearing a badge and have POLICE written on their clothing and on their transport. "Vespa" or (when they rode them) Segway, whatever mode of transport you use makes no difference, unless you cannot keep up. I guess that Hollister thang holds more mystery in CA than the midwest?

 

"Loose the noise. Keep your hearing. Gain more respect" A new bumper sticker to combat loud bikes and cars

 

Thanks for all you do and I hope they give you faster, quieter, bikes someday. Don't get me started on your helmets and lack of ear plugs.

[Boffin]

My cop bike has a Screaming Eagle kit that includes increased noise, modified pipes. Unless the pipes are open (aka straight exhaust) I do not write exhaust tickets.

Part of the problem with enforcement has to do with the technical issues of noise and definition of "modified". You need a decibel meter to measure the noise and the officer needs to be an expert in what exactly modified means. Unfortunately I am an expert in neither and I cannot testify in court if my ticket is contested.

 

UK Law is simple to enforce. For bikes first registered after a specific year, the pipe must carry a stamp with either a British Standard mark or an EC mark. The latest spec requires the pipe to indicate wich bike, or series of bikes, the mark apertains to.

All non-compliant (from a noise perspective) pipes must be marked "not for road use".

This is checked on the annual safety inspection.

 

No mark = prosecution. There are similar laws in force across Europe, so the pipe manufacturers - including HD Screaming Eagle - are already doing the requisite testing and marking.

 

However, many - most even - sports bikes on the UK roads sound like they have the 105dB race-spec pipes fitted. We hear the same 'loud-pipes save lives' bull here as well. In addition, as it is sports bikes not cruisers that form the mainstream bike culture here, the argument that they are gone in a few seconds, so it is not that big a deal. Well, as someone who lives half-a-mile from a popular bike road I can say that in the summer my back garden transforms from a peaceful haven into a noise-polluted hell. The noise is constant, with bikes passing either singly or in packs. As the noise of one starts to die away, the next weekend warrior howls into earshot. No wonder there are moves to ban bikes form many of the country's most beatiful areas.

 

Andy

[wbrissette]

Riding both a Buell and BMW, I always find it ironic how the people differ who ride each. I'm one of the few Buell riders locally that has stock pipes on my bike. I want quiet (or as quiet as my Ulysses will let me be). Obviously on the RT, noise simply isn't a factor. I have only known a couple of people replace their exhaust systems on the RT, it's just a very different crowd. Like the guy in the video, I'm a sound engineer, I love my hearing... I see an audiologist yearly for exams, one thing he tells me often when he sees me riding a bike is that he fits a lot of cyclists with hearing aids. I have often wondered how much of that is attributed to loud pipes.

 

Every year the ROT (Republic of Texas) rally is held 3 miles from my front door. For the entire weekend, I can hear from inside my house, motorcycles at all hours of the day and night. Not really what you want people to think about when you tell them you're a rider.

 

Wayne

[upflying]

My cop bike has a Screaming Eagle kit that includes increased noise, modified pipes. Unless the pipes are open (aka straight exhaust) I do not write exhaust tickets.

Part of the problem with enforcement has to do with the technical issues of noise and definition of "modified". You need a decibel meter to measure the noise and the officer needs to be an expert in what exactly modified means. Unfortunately I am an expert in neither and I cannot testify in court if my ticket is contested.

 

 

Hi Bob,

 

Do you know what the decible level is on your work bike? Why is that work bike modified, meaning not stock?

 

Since most of the public may not know very much about motorcycles, they might think bikes have to be loud and so they wish to ban them all. I mean, how many people hear stock pipes go by, no matter the brand? If they are only aware of the loud ones, they will assume all motorcycles are loud. It will appear to them that only a few are quiet, simply because the don't announce themselves.

 

I do not know the dB level of my work bike but I do know it is way louder than stock. The police bikes are kitted for a bit more power at public expense. The decision to kit the bikes and install loud exhaust was done by command staff.

In some LEO opinions, loud police bikes announce their presence and could convey an aura of superiority. Doesn't mean mean loud and quiet means weak or timid? What if a citizen complains about an area of traffic violations? Loud police bikes conveys a message to that citizen that we are in the area and enforcing traffic laws. LEO bikes are sometimes used in crowd control. To some, loud police bikes have an image of "mean and bad" and psychologically motivate non-compliant people into voluntary submission. Picture a traffic cop who rides a Vespa and you get the idea. What is more fearful, an F-16 on afterburner flying overhead or a Piper Warrior? Which aircraft by it's mere presence will gain voluntary compliance to stop aggression? Unfortunately that is what cops do and some of the tools cops use to stop unlawful acts is command presence. A loud HD is basically just another tool.

 

I have had no verbal complaints from the public who think my bike is too loud. Like you suggested, they probably assume they are all loud since they are so accustomed to it.

 

Shouldn't this stance about using noise as force, also directly apply to squad cars which desperately need to be fitted with a more open exhaust like a race car instead of a weakling, granny stock exhaust?

 

Nope, I'm not buying that. Police cars are not normally used in traffic enforcement, they are used in crime enforcement. They need to be quiet so their arrival is not known to bad people. Unlike motorcycles, a marked police car provides a large visual deterrent.

Police motorcycles never operate at 3 am, quiet is good in police cars. Apples and oranges comparison.

[eddd]

I do not know the dB level of my work bike but I do know it is way louder than stock. The police bikes are kitted for a bit more power at public expense. The decision to kit the bikes and install loud exhaust was done by command staff.

In some LEO opinions, loud police bikes announce their presence and could convey an aura of superiority. Doesn't mean mean loud and quiet means weak or timid? What if a citizen complains about an area of traffic violations? Loud police bikes conveys a message to that citizen that we are in the area and enforcing traffic laws. LEO bikes are sometimes used in crowd control. To some, loud police bikes have an image of "mean and bad" and psychologically motivate non-compliant people into voluntary submission. Picture a traffic cop who rides a Vespa and you get the idea. What is more fearful, an F-16 on afterburner flying overhead or a Piper Warrior? Which aircraft by it's mere presence will gain voluntary compliance to stop aggression? Unfortunately that is what cops do and some of the tools cops use to stop unlawful acts is command presence. A loud HD is basically just another tool.

 

I have had no verbal complaints from the public who think my bike is too loud. Like you suggested, they probably assume they are all loud since they are so accustomed to it.

 

 

Without some sort of actual research to support this, it remains nothing more than "some LEO opinion".

[Paul Mihalka]

My cop bike has a Screaming Eagle kit that includes increased noise, modified pipes. Unless the pipes are open (aka straight exhaust) I do not write exhaust tickets.

Part of the problem with enforcement has to do with the technical issues of noise and definition of "modified". You need a decibel meter to measure the noise and the officer needs to be an expert in what exactly modified means. Unfortunately I am an expert in neither and I cannot testify in court if my ticket is contested.

 

 

Hi Bob,

 

Do you know what the decible level is on your work bike? Why is that work bike modified, meaning not stock?

 

Since most of the public may not know very much about motorcycles, they might think bikes have to be loud and so they wish to ban them all. I mean, how many people hear stock pipes go by, no matter the brand? If they are only aware of the loud ones, they will assume all motorcycles are loud. It will appear to them that only a few are quiet, simply because the don't announce themselves.

 

I do not know the dB level of my work bike but I do know it is way louder than stock. The police bikes are kitted for a bit more power at public expense. The decision to kit the bikes and install loud exhaust was done by command staff.

In some LEO opinions, loud police bikes announce their presence and could convey an aura of superiority. Doesn't mean mean loud and quiet means weak or timid? What if a citizen complains about an area of traffic violations? Loud police bikes conveys a message to that citizen that we are in the area and enforcing traffic laws. LEO bikes are sometimes used in crowd control. To some, loud police bikes have an image of "mean and bad" and psychologically motivate non-compliant people into voluntary submission. Picture a traffic cop who rides a Vespa and you get the idea. What is more fearful, an F-16 on afterburner flying overhead or a Piper Warrior? Which aircraft by it's mere presence will gain voluntary compliance to stop aggression? Unfortunately that is what cops do and some of the tools cops use to stop unlawful acts is command presence. A loud HD is basically just another tool.

 

I have had no verbal complaints from the public who think my bike is too loud. Like you suggested, they probably assume they are all loud since they are so accustomed to it.

I'm sorry if I offend anybody, but I have no respect for a police department or police officer that equips the bikes with loud pipes. Any excuse to do that is as valid as "loud pipes save lives". Any law enforcement agency should respect the laws they enforce.

[baggerchris]

On Smokey the 97 flstc, while I have the screaming eagle air cleaner set up and an ev-27 cam, I run the HD touring muffler two into one system with the top plug removed and "rocket" end cap. Yes, it probably costs me 5 hp, but while a very little noisier than stock, it has a quiet deep sound. My riding buddy of many years runs the thunderheader system and always has to run behind me due to the noise. He is always blapping the dang thing every time he comes to a stop and sooner or later will get into trouble with the cops over this. No problem for him, being a retired DEA Captain. He also never wears ear plugs and is almost deaf in his right ear now.

[upflying]

My cop bike has a Screaming Eagle kit that includes increased noise, modified pipes. Unless the pipes are open (aka straight exhaust) I do not write exhaust tickets.

Part of the problem with enforcement has to do with the technical issues of noise and definition of "modified". You need a decibel meter to measure the noise and the officer needs to be an expert in what exactly modified means. Unfortunately I am an expert in neither and I cannot testify in court if my ticket is contested.

 

 

Hi Bob,

 

Do you know what the decible level is on your work bike? Why is that work bike modified, meaning not stock?

 

Since most of the public may not know very much about motorcycles, they might think bikes have to be loud and so they wish to ban them all. I mean, how many people hear stock pipes go by, no matter the brand? If they are only aware of the loud ones, they will assume all motorcycles are loud. It will appear to them that only a few are quiet, simply because the don't announce themselves.

 

I do not know the dB level of my work bike but I do know it is way louder than stock. The police bikes are kitted for a bit more power at public expense. The decision to kit the bikes and install loud exhaust was done by command staff.

In some LEO opinions, loud police bikes announce their presence and could convey an aura of superiority. Doesn't mean mean loud and quiet means weak or timid? What if a citizen complains about an area of traffic violations? Loud police bikes conveys a message to that citizen that we are in the area and enforcing traffic laws. LEO bikes are sometimes used in crowd control. To some, loud police bikes have an image of "mean and bad" and psychologically motivate non-compliant people into voluntary submission. Picture a traffic cop who rides a Vespa and you get the idea. What is more fearful, an F-16 on afterburner flying overhead or a Piper Warrior? Which aircraft by it's mere presence will gain voluntary compliance to stop aggression? Unfortunately that is what cops do and some of the tools cops use to stop unlawful acts is command presence. A loud HD is basically just another tool.

 

I have had no verbal complaints from the public who think my bike is too loud. Like you suggested, they probably assume they are all loud since they are so accustomed to it.

I'm sorry if I offend anybody, but I have no respect for a police department or police officer that equips the bikes with loud pipes. Any excuse to do that is as valid as "loud pipes save lives". Any law enforcement agency should respect the laws they enforce.

 

I agree, I am not a loud pipes fan either. I ride what they give me and have no choice in the matter. Since I am technically violating the law, I do not enforce exhaust noise laws unless they are open exhaust..as I mentioned earlier.

 

[Stan Walker]

agree, I am not a loud pipes fan either. I ride what they give me and have no choice in the matter. Since I am technically violating the law, I do not enforce exhaust noise laws unless they are open exhaust..as I mentioned earlier.

 

You should write everyone who rides one of those bikes a ticket, including yourself......

 

Stan

[smiller]

agree, I am not a loud pipes fan either. I ride what they give me and have no choice in the matter. Since I am technically violating the law, I do not enforce exhaust noise laws unless they are open exhaust..as I mentioned earlier.

 

You should write everyone who rides one of those bikes a ticket, including yourself......

Yes, not blaming you individually but that situation is hardly acceptable. I keep hearing that 'the law is the law' in various threads with regard to speed enforcement... but I guess that maxim isn't true in all cases. Are easy to enforce laws to be respected and difficult to enforce laws to be ignored?

[Dave in Doodah]

There are laws, and then there are personal rights vs. good manners.

 

Whatever the laws, we all still get serenaded by loud pipes and loud stereos. No laws will ever change that. That's what gets me down when I ride or drive... the amount of selfish people out there.

 

On a personal note, I put dual exhaust and Flowmasters on my ex-wife's Yukon many years ago and we were thrilled with the rumble of the Chevy 350... until we went on our first 500-mile trip. Yuck.

My new wife has an old stock Tahoe and I enjoy driving it. I also love listening to the ex pull away with the kids in her loud Yukon on Sunday afternoons... for several reasons.

[upflying]

agree, I am not a loud pipes fan either. I ride what they give me and have no choice in the matter. Since I am technically violating the law, I do not enforce exhaust noise laws unless they are open exhaust..as I mentioned earlier.

 

You should write everyone who rides one of those bikes a ticket, including yourself......

 

Stan

 

Since I do not own the motorcycle with loud pipes, I am not responsible for changing them back to stock. It is the owner's responsibility to correct these violations. I could cite the motorcycle owner pursuant to 40001 (b) of the California Vehicle Code but then I would be unemployed.

[smiller]

So in California it's permissible to drive an illegally-equipped vehicle as long as you don't own it?

[beemerman2k]

So in California it's permissible to drive an illegally-equipped vehicle as long as you don't own it?

 

 

Sounds right to me...what's the problem?! :smile:

[smiller]

Sounds right to me...what's the problem?!

None at all... let's trade titles and you and I could have a couple of wicked rides...

[beemerman2k]

Sounds right to me...what's the problem?!

None at all... let's trade titles and you and I could have a couple of wicked rides...

 

Of course, if we did this you know what would happen don't you? upflying would ticket us for loud pipes!

[Deadboy]

My HD has an Thunderheader on it and I will be the first to say that it is a bit loud, but in the defence of a portion on the loud pipe folks there are few quiet options available. For any performance modded HD the stock pipes do rob power and we all know that they need all the help they can get.

 

A bit loud? Those have to be the #1 worst pipe available sound and dB wise short of a super short straight through no baffle pipe, and I should know I used to sell em. My Supertrapp 2 into 1 was a bit loud, those things are the very definition of the problem...

 

 

[Deadboy]

This noise issue is something the off-road community has been dealing with for a few years now. It is possible to make quiet horsepower, but some choose to replace the stock exhaust with some loud aftermarket pipe, thus causing this problem.

 

I see where 17 mile drive in Monterey is closed to MC's, and I understand why.

 

From what I've read on the California smog test for MC's it will be a visual check only to make sure the exhaust is compliant.

 

 

 

Don J

 

 

17 mile drive is actually closed for a different reason....years ago some idiot decided it would be fun to ride on the golf course (Pebble Beach), and being a private road they took the easy way out and banned all bikes...

 

The CA smog bill is another matter as nothing in the bill would require stock exhaust at this point (SB 435). In fact no specific test procedure has been proposed which is one of the reasons so many people are opposing it. It is also on suspense and may simply fail to be heard again in the finance committee before the deadline (May 29th).

 

The new on-road test (similar to the J-1287 off road sound test) will be out very soon and should allow law enforcement to target those who want attention in the manner they deserve while allowing the rest of us to ride by. A law limiting you to a stock pipe would quickly destroy the older bike market. Did you ever try to find a stock pipe for an older bike (or car)? I have and it ain't easy or cheap....

 

[upflying]

So in California it's permissible to drive an illegally-equipped vehicle as long as you don't own it?

Violations are never permissible. If a driver is stopped for expired registration and the driver does not own the vehicle, our beloved lawmakers feel it is not the responsibility of the driver to pay for the registration fees or receive a citation. These laws are intended to provide protection for employees while driving illegally equipped employer vehicles. In this case, the citation is mailed to the owner of the vehicle or designated representative of the company.

[Ken H.]

UK Law is simple to enforce. For bikes first registered after a specific year, the pipe must carry a stamp with either a British Standard mark or an EC mark. The latest spec requires the pipe to indicate wich bike, or series of bikes, the mark apertains to.

All non-compliant (from a noise perspective) pipes must be marked "not for road use".

This is checked on the annual safety inspection.

 

No mark = prosecution. There are similar laws in force across Europe, so the pipe manufacturers - including HD Screaming Eagle - are already doing the requisite testing and marking.

That’s the approach starting to being taken by some municipalities here (in the States) too. Pretty straightforward and objective. Are the pipes on the bike stamped EPA (sound) approved or not? No = guilty. End of discussion.

 

Denver Colorado was going to go that approach last year, I don’t know if it passed or not.

 

Manufactures of aftermarket pipes are screaming "unfair", but what’s unfair about it? You want to sell your pipes? Simple - get them certified.

 

Here in Canada, Ontario has a reputation as being a biker unfriendly province and is getting more so with more regulations of motorcycle use all the time. The noise is an often sited factor.

 

Edmonton (Alberta where we are now) just announced a plan to significantly step up vehicle noise enforcement. While the campaign is against all modified vehicles, every news story, talking head, video about it shows a motorcycle.

 

It's all about perception, whether or not motorcycles, or which motorcycles, are the source of the overall noise problem or not; is all but irrelevant. The non-riding public, which will get what they want, perceives motorcycles as 90% of the problem. They tolerate (better) loud cars/trucks because they (likely) have a car/truck themselves, and at some level empathize with the people who have a loud car/truck, because they see the value in having one, just not in value in having a loud one.

 

Motorcycles OTOH are an entirely different matter. To the non-riding public they have no intrinsic value. They are only a hazard and a nuisance. At best. And in thier minds they define a "motorcycle" in a very broad sense of the word – anything on two wheels with a motor. The public doesn’t know a BMW, from a HD, from a Vespa. They just know motorcycles are loud. A point of perspective that is all but lost on the motorcyclist in general and the, 'my bike sounds good' riding crowd specifically.

 

But alas, talking about this subject to the riding world falls on deaf ears. (no pun intended.) We deserve what we are going to get – more and more blanket bans in more and more places.

 

[Ken H.]

agree, I am not a loud pipes fan either. I ride what they give me and have no choice in the matter. Since I am technically violating the law, I do not enforce exhaust noise laws unless they are open exhaust..as I mentioned earlier.

 

You should write everyone who rides one of those bikes a ticket, including yourself......

 

Stan

+1

 

The hypocrisy of LEO motors with loud pipes is outrageous. They are part of the problem, not the solution. Motorcyclist in municipalities where such a situation exist with their fleet of motors should be raising holy _ell to department heads, representatives, whomever, about it being totally unacceptable. IMHO.