Skywagon Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 I recently had a minor spill on my bike. All the damage was confined to the right side. The mirror, drivers peg, right handle bar, side and top bag scratches, valve cover, spark plug cover, etc. All scratched like heck. Progressive came to my house, asked what was broken. Showed them, they went into their parts price tool, printed out replacement parts with labor, wrote me a check. Told me if the dealer found more or the prices were not right, call them back. All went well. Went to the dealer today. Handed them the parts list. 10 items with correct part numbers (I double checked them on-line). They decided they needed to make their own list and rolled it in behind the magic "no customers allowed" doors. Three hours later they came out with the same list on their paper. Keep in mind I gave them the insurance list and advised them they only had to deal with me, not the insurance carrier. No surprise some of the prices were a bit different, but they said they didn't have time to do a labor quote and would call me later. OK thanks for making me spend 3 hours sitting here while you priced 10 items I gave you the part numbers for. When I got home, I received a call...Hey you forgot to pay us. Pay you for what...Figuring out what your bike needed and pricing it out. You must be kidding, what do you think I owe you. 1 hour labor at $95. If you have us do the work we will waive it. How much to do the work. Don't know we work up an estimate and call you tomorrow. Is that free? No that would be another hour of labor? The most complicated repair is changing the valve cover or arguably removing the side case lid and riveting a new one. I am thoroughly convinced I can do all the work in a white suit in 2-3 hours..tops. The estimate from Progressive for labor was 2.3 hours. I can't wait to hear their call tomorrow. I think I will most likely just order the parts directly from A&S or someone on-line and tell them to kiss my backside for pricing out 10 parts. Keep in mind the shop has done all my maintenance. All. The 6k, 12k, and I had the 18k scheduled for Saturday. I even bought all my tires and accessories from them as I believe in trying to keep the dealers alive. Anybody think it is reasonable to pay for parts pricing. There was no mention of it when I went in.
Kathy R Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 Anybody think it is reasonable to pay for parts pricing. There was no mention of it when I went in. Are you being punked?
knight88 Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 No not being punked more like getting screwed, after all the business you gave them? go somewhere else that appreciates you.
Jeepster Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 Did you sign a work order or an estimate? If not have a talk with the owner and explain that you walked in knowing what you wanted. If no joy buy a manual and start doing your own maintenance or start using another dealer.
Skywagon Posted May 7, 2009 Author Posted May 7, 2009 No...I didn't sign a work order. There was truly no mention of it. The intent was for them to order the parts, call me when they ALL arrived (Since the bike is perfectly driveable), and then pay them to install the ones I didn't want to install myself...like the bag lids, handlebar, and valve cover. There is one other dealer here in Houston. Think I will pay them a visit.
Vic Purvis Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 Sounds like the parts manager is attempting to see how long he or she will stay in business.Not to long if something like this is normal.I agree with everyone talk with the manager
Tony_K Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 I am thoroughly convinced I can do all the work in a white suit in 2-3 hours..tops. The work is SOOOO EASY put on some white silk gloves and a top hat too! It's really a shame this type of gouging activity happens at some dealers.
yabadabapal Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 No need to negotiate when your right. Explain to them that when they see it your way, youll bring the bike in for repairs and or buy the parts from them.
OoPEZoO Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 Burn the place to the ground......do a little dance.....then stop by Sears on your way home and buy some tools. When you get home, order the parts online while sitting on your ass and drinking a beer. A week later the parts will show up, and you can install them yourself. Don't get me wrong, I'm all about supporting dealers.......BUT, I only support the dealers that support me. That place wouldn't get another dime of my money. Even if I had to drive right past it to go to another dealer that was farther away.
lvnvbiker Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 Have a tech day at your house and get some free help putting the parts on after you have ordered them from A&S. Much more fun, alot less frustrating, and you can have a frosty one while the work is being done.
wellcraft Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 it sure does seem like a underhanded way to do business and going by your story i would be inclined never to do business with that dealership again. i've learned to always ask about possible charges before i let anybody touch my car or bike for any reason. i do have one question though...was the dealer conducting an inspection of your bike to look for any damage you may have missed or strictly just ordering parts? what's the name of the dealer so others can avoid doing buisness with them?
boatzo Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 That is a horror story. I cannot imagine a successful business acting like that. Post the Name and address so we can all avoid them.
Kathy R Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 That is a horror story. I cannot imagine a successful business acting like that. Post the Name and address so we can all avoid them. Maybe you should wait to post the dealer name until the manager has had a chance to clear this up?
pbbeck Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 I'm confused. You said you simply asked them to price out some parts, yet at some point in your story the dealer wheeled your bike into the "no customers allowed" area (presumably the shop). At this point, it would appear to me that they were not simply pricing out a parts list. This is where alarms would start going off in my head and I would start asking about labor charges. At every dealer I've ever been to, there's a parts guy and there's a service guy. The parts guy would not be wheeling my bike anywhere without first referring me to service. Something to the effect of, "You may not need this part. The only way to be sure would be to open up the xxxx. Would you like service to take a look at it?" Sounds like a case of miscommunication.
hopz Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 I find it so odd that a market like Houston and Eastern Texas has only one or two dealers. I think I know which one you went to, or can guess, and I can tell you when I lived in Houston I went there only one time. It was not a pleasant nor helpful encounter. Maybe that is why east Texas is a Harley Haven and you can't find a decent BMW place there.
krussell Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 I'm confused as to why they would take the bike into the service area if you had merely requested pricing of the parts. When you walked in were you talking to parts, or to service? They are opposite ends of the building at my dealer, and as I've noted in previous posts they often seem to be entirely separate companies. :-) If you walked in to get your list of ten parts priced there was no reason for them to even know you were on a bike that day. There was also no reason for you to let them roll the bike in either. If they had the impression that you wanted them to provide a list of the parts needed to repair your bike after determining what needed to be done then charging you to provide that service may seem unreasonable, but they do spend time in doing just that. They even offered to waive their charge for the service they provided if you have them do the work. Seems fair. If you are going in to have them figure out what needs to be done, then walk with the parts and do it yourself, they have lost time in service while helping you fix you bike for free. Give them the work, they will thank you by waiving the estimate. I'll offer two suggestions. First, if the bike is still at the dealer then make sure to call them immediately and let them know you will not be paying for any further service and will be coming to get the bike. Second, in the future if you take your bike to a dealer and they roll it into the service shop let that be a clear signal that you need to determine if they will be charging for whatever they are doing, or if they are merely donating their time out of goodwill or anticipation of other business. You are absolutely right that they should have told you that they intended to charge you for the service the performed. But they are not alone in their fault here. You could have just as easily asked if they would be charging. To the final question in your post. I don't think it's reasonable to charge for providing parts pricing. I do think it is very reasonable to charge for the labor necessary to evaluate a damaged bike and provide an accurate list of the parts that are required to restore it to pre spill condition.
Les is more Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 I agree with Kathy. Until you've spoken with the owner and attempted to resolve this, let's leave the dealer's name out of the discussion.
Joe Frickin' Friday Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 How much to do the work. Don't know we work up an estimate and call you tomorrow. Is that free? No that would be another hour of labor? Please confirm, they wanted to charge you one hour of labor for working up a labor estimate to replace the parts on your bike, is that correct? If it takes them one hour to look up book rates for replacement of ten parts...wow. Shouldn't take ten minutes, and as for charging you - maybe a dealer here can confirm this - I would have thought that the labor involved in creating a labor estimate would already be rolled into the listed book rates for any given job. Anybody think it is reasonable to pay for parts pricing. If that's their policy, AND they state it explicitly up front, AND the customer agrees to it, then OK fine, whatever. Maybe it's appropriate on a crash-damaged bike where they are expected to carefully inspect it and determine what parts actually need replacing, and so the inspection and tracking down of part numbers takes some time. But it's weird of them to do that when you've handed them a list of parts at the outset. Ultimately though, if they don't explain ahead of time that they intend to charge you for their labor AND obtain your explicit consent, then charging you is BS. Definitely contact the owner/manager and give him a chance to clear/muddy this up. Let us know what you find out...
DaveTheAffable Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 Went to the dealer today. Handed them the parts list. 10 items with correct part numbers (I double checked them on-line). They decided they needed to make their own list and rolled it in behind the magic "no customers allowed" doors. ...and advised them they only had to deal with me, not the insurance carrier. Keep in mind the shop has done all my maintenance. All. The 6k, 12k, and I had the 18k scheduled for Saturday. I even bought all my tires and accessories from them as I believe in trying to keep the dealers alive. With all the maintenance, service, and farkles you've bought, hopefully this dealer has some redeeming qualities. Of course, you may have kept going back because it was the only dealership you had available. They only "had to deal with me"...in completing repairs? Ordering parts? It sounds like you were entering into some kind of beginning of a relationship that they would be dealing with you, and not the insurance carrier. Whatever that "dealing with" meant. I'm not suggesting you did anything wrong, and it may be a dealer that's not as good as others. But I am curious what led them to believe they needed to wheel the bike in. Here's the part I'm missing. Maybe others too. When you handed them the parts list, what did you say? What did you ask for?
boatzo Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 Maybe you should wait to post the dealer name until the manager has had a chance to clear this up? You are right Kathy, that was my road/dealer rage kicking in.
GordonB Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 Sounds like a big misunderstanding with whom we don't know, you or the dealer. It's obvious the dealer interpreted your visit as a 'need an estimate for repairs' and not as 'I need the following parts' And as others have said, there is a parts department and a service department. Which dept. did you approach? It's normal business to charge labor for an insurance estimate (for which the insurance co. will pay). Talk to the general mgr or the owner, I'm sure it will be resolved.
Kathy R Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 Maybe you should wait to post the dealer name until the manager has had a chance to clear this up? You are right Kathy, that was my road/dealer rage kicking in. Bill, you caught me in a calm moment. Normally, I'm the one reaching for the rope. And now that I have brownie points from Leslie someone better keep an eye on my snippiness
Skywagon Posted May 7, 2009 Author Posted May 7, 2009 Ok...folks a little more clarity. I walked in with a parts list consisting of 10 parts (silly crap like pegs, mirror, bag lids) my insurance company and I agreed were the extent of the damages. Each part on the insurance form was listed by part number, description, and labor time allowed to install. I walked in the front door...not service, not parts. A gentlemen asked me if he could help me. Yes. I dumped my bike. Here is a list of the damage and the prices allowed by my insurance carrier. Can you verify the prices and tell me how much to install. I never asked them to inspect the bike, never asked them to assess the damage, never asked them to do anything but verify the parts list prices and the allowable labor. They gave me a print out of the parts list with their prices and said they couldn't give me the labor quote right now, it would be later. I pressed for when, and they said same day. I rode home. When I got home they called and said you owe us 1 hour labor.. See rest of story on first post. Today they were supposed to fax me the estimate of labor. I called twice. Promised to send within 3 minutes both times. Haven't received it. I casually know the owner through the many times I have been there and the occasionaly open house. I plan to go there tomorrow and chat with him. If there isn't a reasonable outcome to this I will be done with this dealer. The new bike I plan to buy in January will not come from there either. I don't want to use that as a carrot, because this whole incidence is bizzar...Oh yeah, PS I never signed anything, nothing was presented. I don't chalk this up to miscommunications. I was very clear. Been on the earth a while and I understand what signing an open service ticket for evalutation is. There isn't one. I'll repost this weekend after I have had a chance to talk through it with the owner...
99Roadster Posted May 8, 2009 Posted May 8, 2009 Based on their lack of communication alone I would disassociate myself from this dealer. Lack of response shows lack of interest. Go where you're considered a customer and not just an opportunity, if you have the choice.
onedae Posted May 8, 2009 Posted May 8, 2009 Based on your story I'd say this dealer should be named, avoided and informed that these kinds of business practices are unacceptable. Too many dealers think they can get away with this kind of stuff and in today's wired world its easy enough to stop them by giving them the bad press they deserve. The good dealers, and there are many, equally deserve to be mentioned so we can give them our business.
DaveTheAffable Posted May 8, 2009 Posted May 8, 2009 Ok...folks a little more clarity. I'll repost this weekend after I have had a chance to talk through it with the owner... Thanks! That makes it so much clearer. Like I said, I wasn't suggesting you did anything wrong. Sounds pretty clear now. And besides... what better place to rant than amongst friends! Hope it all works out well.
Skywagon Posted May 8, 2009 Author Posted May 8, 2009 End of Story I went to the dealer today. I met with the service manager. To make a long story short, all is well. They agreed they overstepped what I asked them to do and there would be no charge. They promptly handed me the revised quote for parts and labor. To no surprise there was about a $200 difference in the parts. I am confident the insurance carrier will step up on parts prices. Like a good little LOYAL customer, I had them order the parts and agreed to the deal. Can I do all this work myself...of course, heck the wife unit could probably do it....but I work hard enough during the week to get the free time to ride on the weekend. I also hope this keeps my dealer in business. They came very close to losing me and erroding my faith in the BMW brand. Today...they couldn't have been more pleasant and willing to resolve any issues.
Nice n Easy Rider Posted May 8, 2009 Posted May 8, 2009 Glad things worked out. +1 on that. Reinforces what some very smart people have often told me: Never make an important decision while you're angry or upset.
baggerchris Posted May 8, 2009 Posted May 8, 2009 Perhaps someone who works there or another loyal client saw this thread and showed it to them. At that point of time the phrase: "Oh Sheit" or something like it may have been uttered, but we will probably never know. Of course the flow chart could have gone at least two different ways, but isn't it nice that it turned out THIS way?
JoeMc Posted May 8, 2009 Posted May 8, 2009 When sales are down, the parts and service departments are all that keep the dealers alive. We customers, however, don't forget such treatment quickly.
DaveTheAffable Posted May 8, 2009 Posted May 8, 2009 Glad things worked out. +1 Good job on you for being firm and gracious.. ...good job on them stepping up. I....I... well... I love a happy ending.
Kathy R Posted May 8, 2009 Posted May 8, 2009 Glad things worked out. +1 on that. Reinforces what some very smart people have often told me: Never make an important decision while you're angry or upset. and never get on your bike Ah, a happy ending to a wronged customer. It's Friday. It's time for a cocktail. To the dealer's who do it right and the customers who guide them.
boatzo Posted May 8, 2009 Posted May 8, 2009 Glad things worked out. +1 on that. Reinforces what some very smart people have often told me: Never make an important decision while you're angry or upset. and never get on your bike Ah, a happy ending to a wronged customer. It's Friday. It's time for a cocktail. To the dealer's who do it right and the customers who guide them. Amen
hopz Posted May 9, 2009 Posted May 9, 2009 Glad to hear it worked out. Also glad to hear Progressive stepped up so quickly. Thanks for the report. Sometimes we consumers feel like the only recourse we have when the system goes off track is to withhold buying power. With a forum like this we can get other opinions, grounding, and if needed, allies. A dealer or vendor can also earn business by doing the right thing. Enjoy the wrenching.
Bud Posted May 9, 2009 Posted May 9, 2009 I have had one claim with Progressive and their service is great! And for me, in S. IL, their rates are so reasonable. When I bought the 95 GS it cost me another whopping $106 a year to add it to my policy. Glad to hear of your good experience with Progressive and the agreeable resolution with the dealer. All's well that end's well.
GordonB Posted May 9, 2009 Posted May 9, 2009 Glad it all worked out. In retrospect, when you asked the dealer 'how much to instal replacement parts on a crashed bikel' you opened a liability factor. The dealer would need to thoroughly inspect the bike for missed or hidden damages (for your safety) and to protect themselves.
UberXY Posted May 9, 2009 Posted May 9, 2009 We all have differing levels of mechanical ability, but if my bike tipped over and I had a check for it, I would go on a easy-to-use website like Max's, order the parts, and do it myself. Your repairs sound like a nice opportunity to spend a rainy day in the garage tinkering and drinking coffee. Even though I have two good dealers within an hour and a half, it's just too time consuming to get them to do repairs I can do myself, even small repairs that might have been under warranty - plus I would be too embarrassed to admit to anyone that I had dropped my bike!
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