moshe_levy Posted May 27, 2009 Author Share Posted May 27, 2009 Law in NJ is caveat emptor, all told. I'm not the type to tell anyone to stick anything, but my patience is coming to a close. I'll let y'all know what happens. -MKL Link to comment
OoPEZoO Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 If it was me, that last conversation you had with him would be the end of the relationship. You have a lot more patience than I. You have gone way above and beyond the call of duty on this, and it sounds like the guy has resorted to stomping his feet and throwing a temper tantrum....... I think its time to take your ball and go home. Let him sort it out on his own. Link to comment
smiller Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 As was mentioned in most states a 'vehicle is being sold as is' statement on the receipt will pretty much leave the buyer with no case, otherwise... it can get complicated depending on how much the buyer wants to spend in pursuing a claim. One should always include this language on the receipt. Link to comment
moshe_levy Posted May 27, 2009 Author Share Posted May 27, 2009 Seth- You're correct. I learned this after the fact, of course, but next time I'll be sure... Wait, next time, I'll just trade a used vehicle in at the dealer, and take less money in exchange for the glory of not having to deal with the general public at large. -MKL Link to comment
Unhofliche_Gesundheit Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 moshe - to put a positive spin on this latest turn of events - the buyer just did you a favor - your high ethics got you into trouble (offering up pearls before swine) and the buyers churlish/greedy behavior now gives you an ethical out. Link to comment
OoPEZoO Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 Wait, next time, I'll just trade a used vehicle in at the dealer, and take less money in exchange for the glory of not having to deal with the general public at large. -MKL There is definitely something to be said for that. Link to comment
moshe_levy Posted May 27, 2009 Author Share Posted May 27, 2009 It hasn't been a good year for me and vehicle sales. Off topic for a minute but related (to my patience) I sold my beater 1996 Camry not too long ago, to 20 something kid looking for affordable transportation. Said kid stiffs me 3 times in meeting him to collect money and give him the car. Then after finally meeting and paying, he drives off in it. 3 days later, I get a call from the state police, asking me to come down and release the car from impound, since said kid did not register or insure the car, so the state still saw me as the lawful owner. I go down with the kid, he pays, I sign that I have nothing whatsoever to do with him anymore, and off he goes. A month later, I get a letter from him. He lied on the forms at the DMV, saying he paid basically nothing for the car, so that he wouldn't have to pay the state sales tax. I warned him about doing this, since now the state is smart and computerized. So now, the state sent him a letter, telling him he owed the sales tax difference between what he claimed he paid, and what blue book actually is. The kid's letter asks me (in writing, no less - and he IS in college) to write to the state telling them he paid half of what he actually did. On that occasion, I did tell him where to stick it. But I'll tell you, as I get older, I am willing to pay mucho dinero not to deal with the public on these "deals." -MKL Link to comment
Tony_K Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 Wait, next time, I'll just trade a used vehicle in at the dealer, and take less money in exchange for the glory of not having to deal with the general public at large. -MKL There is definitely something to be said for that. Actually it was Moshe's further involvment beyond the sale that resulted in the quagmire. It's not difficult to sell or buy a used "anything" as long as both parties have full knowledge of what could transpire. Looks like both parties in this case didn't read the pamphlet. EDIT: posted while Moshe's response above was being posted. I do NOW think you are better off NOT dealing with private sales! Link to comment
smiller Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 moshe - to put a positive spin on this latest turn of events - the buyer just did you a favor - your high ethics got you into trouble (offering up pearls before swine) and the buyers churlish/greedy behavior now gives you an ethical out. An ethical out but perhaps not a legal out. While I hate to say it this is kind of a lesson in the unfortunate dangers of being a nice guy. A court or arbitrator could construe your initial offer to share costs as an indication that some warranty or guarantee was intended or implied, just the opposite of what you want if push comes to shove. Link to comment
4wheeldog Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 If I were in your shoes, I would wait until I actually got a letter from a lawyer before I considered hiring one. It is likely an empty threat, as any ethical lawyer would notice the stink as soon as he brought the case to him. A lousy lawyer is unlikely to take the case because there is simply too little money in it to be worthwhile. And if it did go to court (Highly unlikely) you would not have much trouble getting a statement from the mechanic that took it apart that something bad, and recent, happened to the motor. You have done nothing but act in good faith........Your conscience should be clear when you tell him to do the anatomically impossible. I bet you are re-considering whether he let it run on its side about now. Link to comment
smiller Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 Getting a letter sent is a typical early tactic in cases like this (if indeed the buyer really intends on following up on his threat.) Whether you think you can win a case or not you pay a lawyer $100 to get a threatening letter sent and hope that the recipient gets shaken and settles up. If you get a letter like that you can either assume it's a bluff and throw it away or get a lawyer yourself. But stop dealing with this guy now. Link to comment
moshe_levy Posted May 27, 2009 Author Share Posted May 27, 2009 Seth- Yes, agreed. I'm semi well versed in the theatrics of lawyers, which is why I hold them in such contempt. Once he lawyered up my nice guy mentality closed down. It's a shame, really, because thus far I've always treated and been treated by fellow BMW riders with nothing by the kindest respect. However, in every batch of apples... Funny, there's even a similar story this month in "Airmail" about a guy who bought an Airhead on E-bay. Sad these days how some people are. -MKL Link to comment
E30TECH Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 when you tell him to do the anatomically impossible. I had something similar when I sold my previous bike. It wasn't as big/expensive however.... I am going to be brief. I paid $4800.00 or thereabouts for a bike that I expected to work troublefree at least for more than the trip home. I am not a mechanic and I have no desire to spend time trying to figure out what the problem is, I am not good at it and it is not my deal. I would like you to sort out the issue, whatever way you want to do it is fine by me. The problem did not exist when I sold you the vehicle and you signed an "as is" bill of sale. You are asking me for a mechanical opinion and suggestions that I am not professionally qualified to provide. I urge you to take the problem to an appropriately qualified professional of your choosing. You are leaving me no option but to take the bike to a Kawasaki dealer to effect a repair. You sold the bike with particular reference to the stator which you said had been replaced. I will send you the bill and refer the matter to my attorney, you maybe liable for the his costs, any in addition to the repair any consequent costs that I incur. I am disappointed that it has come to this but its your choice. I will be talking to my attorney and hence forth you will be dealing with him. That was March 2007. I should email him and ask how he made out Link to comment
Richard_D Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 Use the money I gave you for a lawyer ,if you need to hire one down the road. The judges first question will probably be , Did you have a mechanic inspect the bike before you bought it ? This is definately getting interesting now. I'm sorry you have to go through all this Moshe . Link to comment
Rich06FJR1300 Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 i guess time heals all wounds! Link to comment
Ham Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 tell him to go pound sand....in the Mojave desert. Maybe he'll find a sucker there. Stand your ground. Your ties to this guy, by now if you haven't accepted the 'clue', should be zilch. Link to comment
SKYGZR Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 This is NOT a wrenching topic and should be moved. Link to comment
Rich06FJR1300 Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 actually it is...they're rebuilding the engine! well, not yet but a possibility Link to comment
moshe_levy Posted May 29, 2009 Author Share Posted May 29, 2009 Wow.. this thread will be a "sticky" at this rate. OK, update time. Talked to the buyer again. He immediately backed off the lawyer thing quickly (expected) and just expressed general frustration at the situation. I began to see his frustration stemming from a newbie type devotion to the dealer as the lone source of relief, and what they say ($6k) as gospel. I pointed him towards Beemer Boneyard, who currently do not have an engine available, so he's putting himself on the list. I did some checking around (thanks, Anton!) and found a 2004 R1100S engine with 3,000 miles available a few states away. Complete long block, no valve covers, no starter, no throttle bodies. No sweat, since IF we can retrofit those (plus the tranny, etc.) from the R1150R motor, all is well. I have not been able to definitively find out if the R1100S engine is a clean swap into the frame of an R1150R, but with my (very) limited knowledge, I can't think of a reason why not. Anybody know for sure? This would solve the problem quickly, and inexpensively. -MKL Link to comment
Rich06FJR1300 Posted May 29, 2009 Share Posted May 29, 2009 that sounds good. And doesn't the 1100S have large Throttle bodies on it right? so guess what! more HP! i can't think of a reason it shouldn't fit though oops, just saw no TB's included...my bad Link to comment
smiller Posted May 29, 2009 Share Posted May 29, 2009 No sweat, since IF we can retrofit those (plus the tranny, etc.) from the R1150R motor, all is well. You are a glutton for punishment Moshe... Link to comment
Anton Largiader Posted May 29, 2009 Share Posted May 29, 2009 The R1100S case has 99mm (1100-sized) cylinder holes. The 1150 cylinders are 101mm. So it's all or nothing; can't put the 1150 top end on the 1100 case without mods. I think the S has higher compression also, so you may have different tuning characteristics when mixed with the R1150R exhaust and Motronic. Might be OK, I just don't know. Offhand I forget if the cam is the same. The engine itself will be a bolt-up. EDIT: OK, given that the 1150 pistons & cylinders were damaged I guess you were planning to simply use the 1100S motor all the way out to the heads. I think the heads are actually the same. Link to comment
moshe_levy Posted May 29, 2009 Author Share Posted May 29, 2009 Anton- Yes, plan to use the 1100 complete long block and steal the starter, throttle bodies, and valve covers from the 1150. Think that will be OK? -MKL PS - Seth, yes, I've been told before! But I'm convinced Karma will prevail, at least hopefully in this case. Link to comment
themagicone Posted May 29, 2009 Share Posted May 29, 2009 How much did he pay for this bike? I would say if it was in the 7-8 range I would just say forget it - give him his money back and part the bike out. Should get money for the heads if undamaged, tranny, etc - get 2-3k or more for parts. This way the buyer is off the hook and your not worrying what else could go wrong. Putting it in terms of money it's the best bet too. Link to comment
tallman Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 If you actually get involved in the repair of this vehicle I would suggest you do some things first. Have him sign an agreement that states he bought it "as is", had the opportunity to inspect the bike or have it inspected, and it was sold w/no warrantees implied or otherwise. Have him sign a release that limits your financial damages to $x and only for a stated purpose and using specified items. The agreement would stipulate that you have no way to detemine the fitness of the parts being used and have no obligations involving those parts. Have him sign that this is being done as a goodwill gesture on your part, that it is the only remedy available to him and that this remedy has a life span of x days. Have him sign an agreement that once he has said items in his possession you have no other involvement in the matter. Or, have him sign an agreement that he had the opportunity to inspect the vehicle, it was sold "as is" and w/out any warrantees, and you are willing to make a goodwill gesture and return $X dollars to him This is his only remedy w/a lifespan of x days and that once he accepts this remedy you will have no other invovlment in the situation. Personally, it was arms length and caveat emptor. He bought it, rode it, and did stuff outside of your control or knowledge to the bike. It's his problem to solve. Be very careful if you get involved i solving the problem that you don't open the door to any future compensation to him. Best wishes. Link to comment
smiller Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 Yes, plan to use the 1100 complete long block and steal the starter, throttle bodies, and valve covers from the 1150. Think that will be OK? OK Moshe, seriously, do not even contemplate doing this. Not even for a fleeting second. If you feel you have some responsibility in this situation then just give the guy his money back and part the bike out. Anything else is just going to prolong (and probably worsen) an already bad situation. Link to comment
Mark K Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 Agreed. I mean how many times have we all done this? You try to step up and make something right (where you're not necessarily obligated to do so) and you end up getting burned any number of ways. Link to comment
tazplas Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 Yes, plan to use the 1100 complete long block and steal the starter, throttle bodies, and valve covers from the 1150. Think that will be OK? OK Moshe, seriously, do not even contemplate doing this. Not even for a fleeting second. If you feel you have some responsibility in this situation then just give the guy his money back and part the bike out. Anything else is just going to prolong (and probably worsen) an already bad situation. +1 Link to comment
Ham Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 i remember buying an old '71 BMW 2002 (afterall, this is a BMW forum) and it ended up having a blown head gasket. tough luck on me, I knowingly bought a used product. I never even thought about calling the seller. it was now mine, along with its problems. some people just need to man up and realize what's his is his and stop trying to poing the blame onto someone else. tell the guy to grow a pair along with pounding sand. Link to comment
John Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 Moshe, I would not be accepting/admitting any liability whatsoever. Here in Oz, we sell our vehicles as is, with no warranty. While it is admirable what you've offered, I think you're leaving yourself open to further litigation unless you limit your liability, as others have written. If it were me, I'd be denying any responsibility whatsoever, considering I've taken the best care possible of the bike while it was in my hands, and have no knowledge as to what happened to the machine once handed over to its new owner. Link to comment
Rich06FJR1300 Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 I just got the latest issue of MOA, in it Moshe writes a big article on his cross country trip with his wife. On the first page of the article it shows her and the 1150R on its side after a low side accident! Moshe, you should have delayed the press on this article, couldn't ask for worse timing LOL. Link to comment
moshe_levy Posted June 2, 2009 Author Share Posted June 2, 2009 Ya, wrote that in 2007 after our trip, and NOW they decide to publish it! LOL... Article explains our off road "adventure" in Utah. Can't blame anything on that trip though - she put 10k trouble free miles on the bike since then, and I've put 30k on mine since then, no problems. -MKL Link to comment
moshe_levy Posted June 2, 2009 Author Share Posted June 2, 2009 By the way... The part in the article (if they didn't edit it out) about not finding a hotel until 2am.. The only local one we could find was full - of BMW motorcycle riders! I was always wondering if it was this group, perhaps getting together at a Torrey ride or something. Anyway, that's why we had to travel so long and hard - after the off roading - to find a hotel to stay. But now I'm getting seriously off topic..... -MKL Link to comment
Rich06FJR1300 Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 any updates on this? did you get the new (used) motor from the 1100S to put into the R bike? Link to comment
moshe_levy Posted June 11, 2009 Author Share Posted June 11, 2009 Hi Rich- The pros I spoke to advised against the R1100S engine - it might present some problems in retrofit, and the last thing I want to do is have more problems. So buyer put his name down on the Beemer Boneyard donation list for a suitable Oilhead engine, and now we're waiting to see what comes in. Sooner or later in this busy season, a wrecked bike will arrive, hopefully with a suitable donor engine, that should be a viable solution. Will keep everyone updated, when there's news. -MKL Link to comment
der Wanderer Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 Hi Moshe, what's the news on this? Best of luck Link to comment
moshe_levy Posted July 19, 2009 Author Share Posted July 19, 2009 No news. I haven't heard anything since my last posting here. I've decided to wait until the summer is over. If I don't hear anything by then, I'll invite all who donated to either take their money back, or donate it to this site. -MKL Link to comment
moshe_levy Posted September 28, 2009 Author Share Posted September 28, 2009 Hello All- Apologies to the Mods as I didn't know whether to respond directly here since this is no longer a true Oilhead tech message, but in short sleeping dogs are still sleeping. I haven't heard from this guy, and by now I would imagine any role I would have is really totally diminished. Thus, I would once again like to thank each of you who were kind enough to help. There were 18 of you, and I have each of your addresses. The total received was $380.00. It's not my money, but in my opinion, seeing as how "what comes around goes around" my vote is for me to give the lump sum plus a little that I'll kick in back to this site, for providing such a great forum for all of us to meet. If that meets with everyone's approval, let me know and that will be the happy ending to this ordeal. If however you absolutely must have your donation back, let me know, and I'll send it via Paypal. Again, thanks to you all! -MKL Link to comment
Mark K Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 Im good with that Yea. I thought this was already decided way back. I don't think you need to ask again. Just do it. Link to comment
ltljohn Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 Glad to hear everything worked out O.K. Link to comment
moshe_levy Posted September 29, 2009 Author Share Posted September 29, 2009 OK guys, it's done. $400.00 donated to this site via Paypal a few minutes ago. Again, thanks to everyone who chipped in. What a great bunch of riders! -MKL Link to comment
Les is more Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 This is amazing! You people really are wonderful. I thanked Moshe and he told me to place that thanks here. I do so with a full heart and a once again renewed faith in people's kindness and generosity. Link to comment
Richard_D Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 Probably about 1% of what this site has saved people . Link to comment
David R Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 I just read the whole thread. Interesting. I just bought a 2000 R1100RT with 101,260 miles on it. I knew it would be my problem. I also knew the guy took good care of it. I was taking a chance on a bike that I totally loved and could afford. It worked out for me (so far 1600 miles) Amazing........ As a 30 year mechanic, I could see no way an engine with good oil pressure could go to heck in 100 miles with out any help or warning. My hat off to every one here David Link to comment
tazplas Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 I'm good with that This site has saved me more than that so far so it was worth it. Cheers Steve Link to comment
bmwdave152 Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 This site is the best. Link to comment
moshe_levy Posted December 26, 2009 Author Share Posted December 26, 2009 Well, this has managed to rear its ugly head again. After months of silence, I was served today. He's taking me to small claims for $3,000, supposedly half the repair cost of the engine ($6,000) - this on a bike worth $6500, mind you. Will this ever end? -MKL Link to comment
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