Tail in the air adventure. pics and questions

[jcguin]

As you may have learned from my previous post, "Only 5th Gear works" . I am stuck doing a tranny pull. I'll do what I can to document it in pics and steps. This will truly be a "Tail in the air for Dummies" considering you get what you pay for. I have to figure out the pics attachment first so give me time and I'll have it down. Computers I can figure, tranny measurement may be another story.

[jcguin]

1. Ratchet Strap center stand to front tire.

2. Tupperware gotta go.

3. Fuel tank off (hint, dont take off the filler plate or center tupperware. It will cause you to disconnect the internal vent tubes and they are a pita to reconnect and it was never necessary) Also label all your hoses on both ends with masking tape and sharpie. Be anal it will pay off.

4. Battery out. (good time to clean the crud off your connectors)

5. Right foot rest plate off. (again, masking tape and label the plate and the bolts you remove.)

6. Exhaust Silencer off. (hint, wd40 the forward coupling bolt after you take off the tupperware, it will be siezed and has to soak. There are only two bolts and one connector. Take a pic of the routing of the connector wires.

 

Questions for those who have gone before:

 

1. Do you have to remove the tupperware from the tail?

 

2. Do you have to remove the fusebox and all wires from the rear sub if you are not going to remove the subframe. I only intend to strap it up.

 

Current State Pic

 

Ready for next step.

 

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

1. Do you have to remove the tupperware from the tail?

 

Tail tupperware can stay on.

 

2. Do you have to remove the fusebox and all wires from the rear sub if you are not going to remove the subframe. I only intend to strap it up.

 

Fusebox can stay on. Harness connecting it with the rest of the bike will flex as the subframe pivots upward.

 

Current State Pic

 

Remove the "?v=0" from the end of your link, and your pic should show up, like this:

 

 

Thanks for posting a pic walkthrough. I've done this a couple of times - once in '04 for a spline lube, and again last year for an input shaft replacement - but this will probably be encouraging and helpful for folks who haven't done it before.

[jcguin]

Thanks Mitch,

 

Thanks for the pic fix, didnt know if it took a while for the site to pull it down or what. Syntax is always critical.

 

And especially thanks for the tupperware and Fusebox advice anything you dont have to take off, you dont have to put back on and can't screw it up in the process.

[jcguin]

Two things I found while tearing apart. One from me tearing it down and the other obviously from the previous owner.

 

First thing, when I disconnected the intake tube from the throttle body on the right side, it ripped the "O" ring in two.

 

And when I was taking off the air box sensor, I pulled the old electrical tape and found this underneath. It wasnt even connected to both sides. I cant seem to find a replacement for the connector in the microfiche.

 

[jcguin]

Next on the list, Rear Brake and ABS Sensor.

 

 

On to the Left Foot Board and Rear Shock. You have to remove the seat height adjust to pull the upper bolt and nut. Dont forget to support the Rear when you pull the Shock.

 

 

Well, that's it for today. Any suggestions for the starter, removal and things to watch for or test?

 

 

[jcguin]

What is the preferred method next.

 

1. separate the final from the swing arm. Then the swing arm from the gear box.

 

2. Separate the swingarm and final from the gearbox together.

 

3. Put the tire back on and remove all three in one using the tire to hold up the back end.

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

Some people who have done a spline lube job have removed the rear wheel, FD, swingarm, and gearbox as a single assembly. It's heavy, but it saves some disassembly/assembly in this case.

 

However, since you're taking the gearbox out/apart for service, you'll need to separate the swingarm from it - which means you'll need to separate the final drive from the swingarm. Life will be easier if you separage FD from swingarm while swingarm and gearbox are on bike.

 

Then remove swingarm from gearbox.

 

Then remove the gearbox from the engine.

[jcguin]

Thanks again Mitch.

 

Looks like it will be FD - Swingarm - Starter - Gearbox.

 

Can a propane torch be used or do I need to go out and pick up a high temp heatgun?

 

 

[T__]

Two things I found while tearing apart. One from me tearing it down and the other obviously from the previous owner.

 

First thing, when I disconnected the intake tube from the throttle body on the right side, it ripped the "O" ring in two.

 

And when I was taking off the air box sensor, I pulled the old electrical tape and found this underneath. It wasnt even connected to both sides. I cant seem to find a replacement for the connector in the microfiche.

 

 

jcguin, that is just a standard Bosch fuel injector connector,, you should be able to buy a new connector & terminals from some (better) auto part stores or a lot of German car dealers..

 

See what you can find locally & if no luck E-Mail me as I have some of those connectors & terminals in my wire drawer here..

 

Another option is to CAREFULLY remove the terminal from the connector (it picks out with a terminal pick),, then open the wire attaching ears (probably won’t be pretty but enough to solder on a new wire).. Then snap the terminal back into the connector..

 

Added: BTW that connector is also missing the wire retaining ring that holds in securely onto the air temp sensor.. Did you pry that off for some reason or is it totally missing?

 

Twisty

 

 

[jcguin]

Thanks Twisty, I'll find the fuel injector connector. And no, I never saw a wire retaining ring. It was pretty much a mass of electrical tape when I took the seat off. I just took off the tape to re-do it proper and found that underneath.

[Woodie]

Watching with renewed interest, as it looks like I'll be needing to get to (or remove) the transmission.

 

How long did any of this take you?

 

[jcguin]

Not counting tupperware, it has taken about 3 hours to this stage. Now understand, I am taking loads of pics and using masking tape and a sharpie on all bolts\screws and holes so I dont screw anything up.

 

The three hours does not include the hours spent reading through the manual and deciphering what notes apply to my particular bike, or the hours searching these invaluable forums. For instance, the manual said to remove the fusebox and rear tupperware,,,, that would take 1/2 to 1 hour by itself, but according to Mitch/Joe Frickin Friday, it was never necessary. Who knows what you could mess up taking out the fuse box.

 

That is all really the point of my trying to document this. It would be nice if there was a step by step for R1100RT all in one place. I hope for this to become that. It was reading Keith's "Collective Clutch Replacement" post that gave me the confidence to try this.

[Unhofliche_Gesundheit]

re: I'll do what I can to document it in pics and steps. This will truly be a "Tail in the air for Dummies"

 

sweet. I will be a customer of your output - I want to check and lube the splines on my bike.

 

by the way - Al from Utah has built a multipage word document / check list which you might want to use/build-off.

 

I have PM'd him to invite him to this thread.

[jcguin]

Forgot to add the steps the other day. Gotta keep them numbered so I dont screw it up.

 

7. Left and Right intake tubes from the air box to throttle bodys. Loosen both ends and carefully slide off the throttle body end and push it back into the air box. (careful, I tore my O ring) Then remove the 2 nuts from the battery holder floor and the 1 screw on the backside of the airbox.

 

8. Rear Shock, remove the seat height adjust bracket so you can remove the upper shock bolt. (put support under f/d /swing arm) Remove preload adjuster. Remove the lower bolt and take the whole thing (with adjuster) out.

 

9. Rear Brake and ABS Sensor - Pretty much a no brainer,,,, 3 hex bolts and tada.....

 

10. Remove the left foot board, first release the wire clip attached from shift lever to adjustment rod. Then remove the 5 bolts holding the foot board.

 

 

[OoPEZoO]

That is all really the point of my trying to document this. It would be nice if there was a step by step for R1100RT all in one place. I hope for this to become that.

 

Thats what I was going for as well, but it morphed into........"screw it, I'm getting this thing back together ASAP!"

[jcguin]

Hey Keith,

 

Did you have to get the intake tubes pushed all the way back into the airbox or just enough to get them off the throttle body.

 

And do you have to do anything to the battery mount other than remove the two screws in the bottom. Seems like it will get in the way of the airbox or the abs in front of it.

 

Oh, yeah,,, did you find a bikini that would fit? I dont like the mesh ones, and vinyl always pinches or sags.

 

I guess I should mention "Jeep" before people start wondering about you in a bikini with your chicken. Hows that for a mental picture.

[OoPEZoO]

no, you just have to unseat the intake tubes and push them back into the airbox a little bit to get clearance.

 

The battery box gets in the way a little bit, but I didn't do anything except remove the two nuts you mentioned.

 

Its all kind of a little shimmy dance between the airbox and the frame. A little wiggle here, a wiggle there, and it should come out without too much drama. Just don't force anything.

 

Oh, yeah,,, did you find a bikini that would fit? I dont like the mesh ones, and vinyl always pinches or sags.

 

I guess I should mention "Jeep" before people start wondering about you in a bikini with your chicken. Hows that for a mental picture.

 

With friends like these.......

 

The bikini top for my Wrangler is on hold right now. It was a new top that don't technically "need" Vs. riding down to Maggie Valley, NC to hang out with the rest of these jokers. I picked the motorcycle trip.

[jcguin]

OK, tomorrow I'll bring home the infra-red temp laser from work. That way I can get the final driveand swing arm, of course the Starter (no heat required as I have heard). Then start lifting the rear subframe and finally the gearbox out.

 

Cameron just sent me a very nice write up from Al on an 1150 that will be of help.

 

Yall let me know if you think of anything to watch out for. Keith already gave me a procedure with heads up for the next step. I would not even be trying this without yall. What a tech day this could have made.

 

See everyone tomorrow.

[TheRoss]

Guys, I am loving this report. As soon as I close on a new house (next week) and move my RT and tools to the new shop, I'll be pulling my tranny too. Bad transmission bearing. Keep up the good work!

[Woodie]

BTW, I am now committed to at least exposing the rear of the transmission for my repair (or replacement).

 

This will be an adventure, far more than anything else I've done.

 

I'll be looking for the detailed instructions, procedures and pictures in about 2 weeks. Due date for repair is the UN on 8/10, so I do have a deadline.

 

[jcguin]

11. Final drive - remove front(tranny side) torque arm/paralever bolt and nut. loosen tranny side rubber boot/gaiter (there will be a few tbl spoons of oil) and slide toward F/D so you dont melt it in a minute. Now use your prefered method to heat the 12mm hex screw holding final to swing arm (one at a time, and both sides) This took me 5 min with propane and still took a 2 ft breaker to start. Once you have both sides you get to see the final drive spline.

 

Before:

 

 

 

F/D side splines: Wiped Off High Res Spline

 

 

Swing Arm Spline Socket (Looks like someone "Moly'd" at least High res swing arm

 

[jcguin]

Guess I'll go get 12, the swing arm.

 

Back in a bit.

[jcguin]

12 Swing Arm - Easy - Get your brake lines disconnected from the side of the tranny before you apply heat.

 

Before -

 

 

 

After - Is this oil all over the clutch lever normal? High Res

 

 

I guess it's on to the Starter now?

 

 

[Edgar]

Since you haven't removed the gearbox before and while the pushrod is there looking at you (hidden behind the clutch lever) remove the clutch lever, and you'll have easy access to the pushrod. By removing the pushrod prior to removing the transmission, it eliminates any drama when the gearbox is jostled out. It's easy to remove and replace later, but it it will be out of harms way.

[jcguin]

Big time thanks Edgar. I'll do that next.

 

OK everyone, I might have messed up so time for a vote. When I was removing the left side of both the swing arm and final, I gave no thought to the Locknut. I heated the 12mm hex and both came out in one piece. Did I mess up or luck out? It would be OK if you said lucked out,,,,,, I'll take that. Does anyone see anything else? If not I'm on to the pushrod and then the starter.

[OoPEZoO]

No, there shouldn't be any oil around the clutch pushrod. It looks like you have a little oil seepage going on. It doesn't look bad though, I wouldn't get too excited about it. Mine looked a little cruddy also when I got to that point.

[OoPEZoO]

I heated the 12mm hex and both came out in one piece. Did I mess up or luck out?

 

Either/or.......you will just have to heat and separate them before you get to reassembly.

[jcguin]

No, there shouldn't be any oil around the clutch pushrod. It looks like you have a little oil seepage going on. It doesn't look bad though, I wouldn't get too excited about it.

 

How can I not get excited,,,,, I am four steps away from the Tranny being out. Yahooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!! Folks from Tennessee can use the word Yahoo in a sentence by itself... it's a state grammer law.

[jcguin]

I was over optomistic,,,,, all I got done after the swing arm was the driveshaft........ Oh well, dinner was ready and I was really hungry. I'll hit the pushrod and starter tomorrow. (along with the pics of the splines on the driveshaft)

 

Good night all.

 

Jim

[jcguin]

Here is the output shaft splines. All you have to do is mark the top then use a couple of screwdrivers to pop the circlip out the groove and the driveshaft comes right off. Actually you just tap it and it will release the circlip in the goove all on it's own.

 

I was very happy, mine was not worn at all. Look at the High Res Shot

 

 

Good night all.

 

Jim

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

I was very happy, mine was not worn at all. Look at the High Res Shot

 

 

Good night all.

 

Jim

 

Output shaft splines generally aren't the trouble area. If there's a problem, it'll be on the gearbox input shaft, which you won't be able to examine until you remove the gearbox from the bike.

[jcguin]

Oh,yeah,,, thanks Mitch,,,,, pop that big pretty balloon.

 

 

 

 

Wow,,,,, he even has the same expression on his face. Could it be? Nah!

[jcguin]

Hey Mitch, thanks for popping that balloon. We need to know what to look for, not what not to look for. I mean that.

 

 

Jim

[jcguin]

OK, question time folks. if I removed the cable, linkage, lever, rubber boot, plastic "thingy" (genuine technical term) should I not be able to pull out the clutch push rod? From everything I have read, I thought I could but I dont want to tear it up and it is not cooperating.

 

Helllllllp!

[OoPEZoO]

Here is the clutch pushrod breakdown. The pushrod should just slide in and out with hardly any effort.

 

 

If you want to see the parts fiche. Hammersley has it all online at www.webparts.com

[Dave in Doodah]

Jim and Mitch - you guys ROCK. I hope to never have to do this, but am really impressed with your generosity/know-how/good humor. Kudos to you, and all who have pitched in...

[jcguin]

Thanks Dave, but it's all on the forum. I'm just the wrench and the cameraman. The awesome ones are giving the advice.

 

Keith, I agree, it should just be sliding out. Perhaps it's a sign of the internal problem. What would everyone say to removing the bolts and replacing the two guide pins that you gave me from your guide and trying to slide it out from there? It's obviously messed up anyway correct?

 

Anyone disagree?

 

 

[T__]

jcguin, the push rod should pull out.. They can stick,, either in the pressure plate or in the rod bore.. Usually if you grab on with pliers (or vise grips) you can give a good yank & out it will come..

 

If just stuck in the rod bore by that pesky felt seal you can easily slide the trans out a ways & the rod will come with it.. On the other hand if the push rod is stuck in the flywheel pressure plate the trans will come out a ways but the push rod won’t so you will more than likely bend the push rod..

 

I guess you can move the trans back a little bit & if the rod looks like it is coming out with trans then just go ahead & remove them both together.. If the rod is not following the trans out put the trans back & grab the rear end of the push rod with pliers & work at it a while..

 

Twisty

 

[jcguin]

13 - Drive shaft - just pop it off at the output shaft end with a screwdriver.

 

14 - Starter - 2 connectors, and 2 bolts.

 

before (high res)

 

 

After (high res)

 

 

 

[jcguin]

Before (ok after I cleaned it up) (high res)

 

 

15. Neutral indication switch - 2 screws and slide it off.

 

16. Clutch Lever - 1st on top remove the cable from the lever. then at the pivot point there is one bolt holding the lever assembly. Just mark it and remove it. For you the clutch push rod should just pull clean, in my case it is being difficult.

 

After (high res)

 

 

 

 

Next step - either muscle the clutch push rod, or remove the gearbox screws and replace two with guides so I do as little damage as possible. Anybody got a coin?

 

 

[OoPEZoO]

for what its worth.......I pulled my tranny before I removed the pushrod. I didn't actually remove the clutch linkage or the neutral/gear indicator switch until I had the tranny up on the work bench. As long as you use the guide pins, I don't think you will bend the pushrod

 

I am interested to see what its hanging up on

[jcguin]

It's worth a bunch. I'll give it a shot and see what the cause is.

[T__]

Keith, sounds like your push rod just stayed in the trans.. If it was stuck in the pressure plate you would have needed some VERY LONG guide pins as that push rod is quite long & the trans would have needed to come back it’s full length before sliding off the push rod..

 

Twisty

 

[jcguin]

17. With support in place(floorjack with block and wheels aligned to come straight back) remove the top right and bottom left hex bolt and replace with guide pins (McMastercarr part number 91290A470 with heads removed and slot dremed in (thanks Keith)) or you can spend the extra money and buy the bmw part,,,, your choice. Then remove the remaining 4 hex bolts. Give it a few taps with a cushioned (i.e. rubber/plastic) mallet. It comes free very easy so keep it lined up and bring it straight back.

 

In my case the pushrod was stuck in there until the gearbox released from the engine case.

 

My gearbox it out! Thanks everyone. I know it looks kind of intimidating when you look at it at this point. But it is really just a few steps past replacing your brakes, or a valve adjust. Ok, maybe a bunch of steps, but it's still just steps that most everyone could do and save a grand in the process. And who couldnt use that right now.

 

Here is the pics:

 

Clutch (High Res)

 

 

Clutch Splines (High Res)

 

 

Input Shaft Splines (Can I smile now Mitch?)

 

(High Res)

 

 

Input shaft with pushrod (any opinions?)

 

(High Res)

 

 

Clutch pushrod seems straight but what do ya'll think?

(High Res)

 

 

Guess I'll start seeing what is inside now.

[Woodie]

Awesome! Congratulations!

[jcguin]

Holy cow,,,,,,, I completely missed documenting a step. Only the title of the topic and the name of the club I am now a member. I'll fix it when I put all this together in a pdf but I would say right after step 12. All you have to do is remove the two rear subframe bolts, and super slowly ratchet up the tail. All the time checking wire routing, binding, and tension. Also you will have to occasionally fiddle with the airbox/battery mount to keep it free till you get the tail up enough for it to come out. (I'm not looking forward to getting it back in there.)

 

Anyway, here is a pic to prove I'm in the club. It's just taken out of sequence.

 

(High Res)

 

[jcguin]

18. removing tranny cover - remove the large hex and spring, then all the remaining bolts. Heat the two bearing sockets (mine released at 200f) to expand them. Then with a soft mallet and alternating sides tap it lightly till free. If it stops, reheat it.

 

I was suprised to find that only the intermediate shaft bearing had a shim on it.

 

(High Res)

 

 

Next?

[jcguin]

I'm no Anton, but I'm confident I found the problem, that is unless my bike has a special one of a kind two piece intermediate shaft.

 

(High Res)

 

 

Other Half

 

(High Res)

 

 

[jcguin]

This SUCKS,,,,,,who knows what the options are?