One more dealer bites the dust: MINE!!!!

[ELP_JC]

Just got word Deming Cycle is no longer a BMW dealer. Apparent reason is they want stand-alone dealerships only, and Deming refused. The even worse news is nobody will set up such a thing in ELP or anywhere near, so closest dealership is now Santa Fe, at over 300 miles. Basically, no dealership (I don't own a truck or tow vehicle, so service by a dealership is totally out of the question).

 

My warranty runs out on Oct 3rd, and I do all my maintenance anyway. On the other hand, no dealership around, and the very real possibility of a seal failure that I can't repair myself (don't have the tools and space needed for that job).

What to do now? Really like this bike, and don't want to sell it, but I have to be realistic; we can't have everything in life. Something like the ST1300 or FJR would make much more sense, even if I prefer the K over them easily. What would you do in my place? Your comments would be greatly appreciated.

[David]

There's nothing wrong with your bike now, you've already eaten the depreciation, and you love it. All that adds up to keeping it and not concentrating on "pre-worry."

 

Keep it, enjoy it, and deal with that issue when it happens. Worst case, you rent a U-Haul and take it to Santa Fe with your wife and have a wonderful weekend.

 

If you get another bike, you'll just swap these worries for new ones.

[ericfoerster]

Oh,that is bad news.

 

Without question they were the best BMW dealership around these parts.

 

BMW has let a good one go. It is only to BMW's demise that this would happen.

 

Now I am without a dealership that does quality work for almost 1000 miles.

 

T-shirts and toys are cool, but I want more out of a dealership than that.

 

Smooth move BMW

 

 

Another prime reason to move to the UJM.

 

 

[ELP_JC]

Wise words David... and true. Analyzing the situation, my K is the least of the 'evils'; I already know there's no perfect bike, or perfect bike ownership situation (bad dealer, dealer too far, short warranty -1 yr on FJR-, etc). And yes, I'm as happy as day 1 with my bike, is immaculate, and set up exactly the way I want it. If anything happens to it, I'd deal with the 'challenge' , and would still be cheaper than buying a new one, no matter what.

Thanks for your input man. Have a great weekend.

[ericfoerster]

My dad just got a 4 yr unlimited mile warranty from Yamaha on the FJR for 389.00 (That is what one trip to Santa Fe would cost you)

 

Hmmm

 

5 yrs total coverage on the bike and a dealership in almost every town.

 

No trailer or long weekends needed.

 

Food for thought.

[smiller]

Just got word Deming Cycle is no longer a BMW dealer. Apparent reason is they want stand-alone dealerships only,

 

If the term 'stand-alone dealership' means that a dealership can only sell BMW motorcycles there are many BMW dealers that do not restrict themselves to only the BMW marque, for instance many sell Triumph bikes as well (such as California BMW in Mountain View where I purchased my bike and Lone Star BMW in Austin, dealer nearest to me now.) Or perhaps I am misunderstanding what is meant by a stand-alone dealership?

[ericfoerster]

Seth, it seems someone posted here not too long ago about this.

I think the dealerships were given "X" amount of time to have the dealerships in a stand alone configuration. These were to have space like Harley just for clothes and toys.

[ELP_JC]

Smiller, that's exactly what the owner meant. Since he refused (BMW wanted for him to open the shop in Las Cruces), they started pressuring him in other ways, like mandatory training for all his techs, etc. Their tactic, apparently, is to drive out multi-line BMW dealerships; all new franchises have to be stand-alone. It'll be interesting for you to have a talk with Lone Star's owner and see what he has to say; I realize this is just one side of the story. Bottom line is a lot of people around here will dump their BMWs, and won't buy one anymore (me included) due to lack of dealer support, especially for warranty service.

 

There's no way a stand-alone dealership can make it in El Paso or anywhere near, so Eric's comment is indeed the logical thing to do, but I decided to do the 'illogical' thing since I like my bike so much. I'd have to fork over 2 grand for an FJR, and even if I get the dreaded seal failure, it wouldn't cost me nearly as much to fix, including all the tools I'd need. A Japanese replacement is in my future for sure, but hope to keep the K for a long time (as long as it stays reliable). Thanks a lot for your comments.

[onedae]

Thats really terrible news as they were reputed to be one of the better BMW dealers. BMW motorrad has got to be one of the dumbest company's around when it comes to building a support infrastructure. At the rate they are losing dealers, there going to start feeling some serious pressure on their growth numbers very soon.

[David]

There's no way a stand-alone dealership can make it in El Paso or anywhere near.

 

I'd have to agree with that. I've spent a fair amount of time in El Paso, and it's just not a city many people are choosing to live in or even spending any time in unless they're crossing the border or driving east or west on their way somewhere.

 

Geez. You wonder what BMW's thinking. The only two options I can think of: a) they don't want a dealer in El Paso; b) they don't understand the demographics of the place.

 

I suppose it would be possible for someone to scrape together $1 million to start a dealership, but at what ROI? You'd be knocking your head against the wall for 5 years and pretty much have to do everything perfectly to make money. But if you want a dealership there, and want to preserve one that already has a great reputation, why not work with them?

 

It gets discouraging sometimes.

[smiller]

Seth, it seems someone posted here not too long ago about this.

I think the dealerships were given "X" amount of time to have the dealerships in a stand alone configuration. These were to have space like Harley just for clothes and toys.

 

So, all BMW dealers are going to have to become BMW-exclusive or shut down? Are any grandfathered? Or does this rule just cover new BMW dealerships?

 

Crazy, in any event. Tough enough for any motorcycle dealer to make it as it is. If this restriction is in place why would anyone want to invest their money in a BMW motorcycle dealership vs. say, a typical multi-marque Japanese shop that will certainly have a wider appeal and probably make more money? This policy seems so counterproductive for BMW in terms of sales that one has to guess that they want to limit sales due to some reason know only to them. As to customer access to service, etc., well I think that it's safe to assume that whatever their strategy is convenience of the end customer doesn't figure in to any large extent.

[ghaverkamp]

So, all BMW dealers are going to have to become BMW-exclusive or shut down? Are any grandfathered? Or does this rule just cover new BMW dealerships?

 

Well, it appears they just have to segregate the showrooms, for the part. Cal BMW has segregated the marques, and it was my understanding it was because of BMW's demands for things to be separated.

 

It seems rather absurd. Deming Cycle Center may have been small, and the Beemers may have just been in a little alcove, but they had a wonderful reputation. I assume BMW has determined that it costs them more to have small dealers in out-of-the-way places than not to sell those additional units. I wouldn't be surprised if that's the case. However, I can't help but believe that the appearance of an ever-thinning dealer network on a marque whose history has been one of open-road touring won't be lethal. Unless they think they're going to win a new sporting reputation.

 

Greg

[W. Mazelin]

BMW of Santa Cruz County is segregated as well, that is where my wife & I purchased all 3 of our BMWs. They have a Yamaha store right across the parking lot as well.

[James Clark]

BMW of Santa Cruz County is segregated as well, that is where my wife & I purchased all 3 of our BMWs. They have a Yamaha store right across the parking lot as well.

 

 

Now why don't you describe Malcolm Smith's showroom for everyone?

 

It seems the only way to keep BMWNA off your back WRT this issue is to take Brittany Spears or some other celebrity on as a public partner. (Of course you would have to give Kevin a job pushing a broom.) Malcolm Smith is pretty well known outside of BMW circles. Reg Pridmore may be a god inside (informed) BMW circles, but he's just some guy who runs a track scool to everyone else.

[ELP_JC]

Not only was Deming a great dealership (although small); they had the best prices by far. In fact, I don't doubt full-MSRP dealers around them (Tucson, Santa Fe, etc.) put some pressure on BMWNA to drive them out. You always got at least $1,500 off from Deming; that's the beauty of multi-line dealers, where customers always win.

 

BMW is definitely shooting itself on the foot. They want to expand their marketshare with a lot less dealers? Interesting plan.

And the sad part is BMW didn't even give Deming a warning; they found out yesterday morning ALL their bikes and parts ordered were wiped out from the system. I found this out when I asked the owner why I wasn't warned; I was waiting for a timing chain cover to fix my recurring oil leak for the 2nd time, before my warranty runs out in a month. Oh well, a messy engine is not going to kill me

[Eschelon1]

Doesn't sound right. There are currently several dealerships that are multibrand even in big market areas. My home port dealer (A&S BMW in Roseville, CA)sells BMW, Vespa Scooters, Piagio Scooters, Kimco ATVs & Motorcycles.Not to mention they have a good selection of RTPs for sale that they buy back from the CHP.

[W. Mazelin]

Malcolm Smith is still a BMW dealer? If BMWNA is going to this "stand alone" type setup I don't think Malcolm will have the roundel very long.

[James Clark]

Malcolm Smith is still a BMW dealer? If BMWNA is going to this "stand alone" type setup I don't think Malcolm will have the roundel very long.

 

Malcolm is a movie star. That buys you a bunch of "special consideration".

[Hacksaw]

Darn Eric, how far were you going for service?

Oh,that is bad news.

 

Without question they were the best BMW dealership around these parts.

 

BMW has let a good one go. It is only to BMW's demise that this would happen.

 

Now I am without a dealership that does quality work for almost 1000 miles.

 

T-shirts and toys are cool, but I want more out of a dealership than that.

 

Smooth move BMW

 

 

Another prime reason to move to the UJM.

 

[ELP_JC]

Eschelon, I guess we'll find out soon enough, but I'm almost sure BMW is not allowing new franchises to be multis (heard from several sources), and that's what I wish was wrong. El Paso can't support a stand-alone store, but one of the current dealerships would add BMW in a heartbeat.

 

As far as current multi (BMW) dealerships, hope they don't force them into stand-alone ones, because a lot more closures would follow.

 

Deming's 'official' reason to close was their refusal to spend $10K in training for their tech, since they hardly do more than oil changes on new bikes there (they mostly work on old airheads)... plus he could leave next month (Deming is the size of a suburb). Deming said BMW started being a PITA when they refused to open a stand-alone BMW shop in Las Cruces, and were never forced to spend on that training before, so who knows. The good news is they still have Honda, Yamaha, and Polaris, and I understand they made the least money from BMW. They'll be fine.

The real losers will be BMW and us, the customers, who can't justify buying a new BMW anymore even when we like them over the competition. Plus can't service the ones we own now. And that's a shame. Again, hope this is not a trend. Good day.

[Shaun]

With all respect I’m a bit puzzled … BMW seem to be telling the subject dealer that if they aren’t trained to fix new models (warranty work etc.) they can’t sell them. Where’s the beef? Part of the reason I got a BMW was for reassurance, both on the road and in the shop. The possibility of someone unqualified tinkering with my bikes intimate parts wouldn’t provide that. Will the dealer now refuse to service any BMW, including the old airheads mentioned? I think there’s more to the story than simply a tale of the bad corporate bully.

 

Although ... BMW can be a bit anal about the street presence of their dealerships and this seems to rub some managers the wrong way. Clash of philosophies and the customer is the loser. Or are we? If BMW want to maintain a certain standard of quality for all their outlets, and all their products, I support them. Much better than simply providing the perception.

 

'Sorry Mr. Doe, we can't find the fix for the problem cause your 2 yr. old bike's a POS.'

'Sorry Mr. Doe, your bike's not ready. Call back next month.'

'Sorry Mr. Doe, that rough idle means that you need a top-end rebuild.'

Who needs it?

 

FWIW, at least two of the three dealerships here (British Columbia) are multi-brand. BMW require a distinct separation although there is room to play between the thought and the fact.

[Paul Mihalka]

I'm afraid that in cases like this we don't have enough information to judge the dealer or BMW. Especially after reading that at Deming's all business was cut off with immediate effect tells me that there must be more going on than just BMW wanting a separate showroom. The place I work is a multiline BMW dealer for the last 20 years or so. When I was there the first time, '88 to '90, it was BMW and Harley, and we had a separate BMW section. After I left they picked up Yamaha, Ducati, and Triumph for a while, and all the bikes were mixed in the same showroom. BMW sales plunged, mostly because there was no "BMW guy" selling the bikes. When we discussed for me to come back, one of my conditions was a separate BMW section within the showroom and we have it. Now BMW sales are up again. There was never a threat from BMWNA to cancel the franchise.

[W. Mazelin]

"On Any Sunday" is what, 30+ years old? What other movies has he been in? It seems to me he is closer to what the music business refers to as "a one-hit wonder." Did he ever race a BMW motorcycle? I thought he was much more known for his off-road abilities. If he never raced a BMW, and he was famous for a 30+ year old movie, I don't see how that could rate too much "special consideration." Is there a piece of the puzzle I'm missing?

[ELP_JC]

There has always been one qualified BMW mechanic at Deming, like at any other dealership. I didn't interrogate the owner, so don't have the details of his comments; it was just obvious they were asked to comply with something not previously enforced before (like having more than one tech qualified, etc). I just mentioned that to show there was some bad blood on one or both sides, not to start a pissing contest. So let's forget about the details because we'll never know, and focus the discussion on the real issue: Deming is gone, and how it affects us. We'll know soon enough if this was the beginning of a trend by BMW; no need to speculate.

 

Back to the issue: Service manager told me they WON'T work on BMWs anymore. Will talk to the owner about 'out of warranty' work, but all I can say is NO franchised dealer I've asked works on other brands. I'll directly ask the owner that question and post the answer here. I bet it'll be a franchise issue, since anybody can open an independent shop (non-authorized, of course). I also wonder if it's legal for an independent shop to buy BMW special tools and factory manuals; does anybody know? Maybe that's the reason. I asked the service manager if I could buy some of his special tools, and said part of the franchise agreement is BMW buys ALL of them back at termination, so he couldn't.

[Bruce C]

I think for one thing BMW looked at when choosing Malcolm Smith as a dealer is that he has been a sucessful MC dealer for over 30 years. Another thing is the need for a BMW motorcycle dealership presence in the Riverside Ca. area. I also cannot see Mr. Smith putting up a lot of his hard earned money to open a stand alone BMW dealership just to keep BMWNA happy. And lets face it, how many BMW racers are as well known as Mr. Smith and his Husqvarna? I guess you are missing many parts of the puzzle.

Bruce C

[W. Mazelin]

Ok, so he was not a BMW racer, it was Husky; explain to me how that helps BMW. If he won't commit to "putting up a lot of his hard earned money to create a stand alone BMW dealership," and if in fact, BMWNA wants their dealers to be single brand, then as I stated before the roundel will not be in Riverside very long. Why is having a dealer in Riverside, CA that doesn't emphasize BMWs so important when there are other dedicated stores not too far from there?

[ian408]

 

Well, it appears they just have to segregate the showrooms, for the part. Cal BMW has segregated the marques, and it was my understanding it was because of BMW's demands for things to be separated.

 

This is true. Service is still handled out of the same service bays by

BMW trained mechanics. Not to mention that I think Triumph kicked in some

money to remodel the showroom not too long ago.

 

Honestly, I understand the desire to have separate showrooms. But BMW

Motorcycles do not enjoy a status that would allow many a dealership

to stay in business long selling only the BMW brand.

 

I've said this before. But BMW would be wise to allow its dealerships to

sell multibrand especially when it compliments the BMW brand.

 

Ian

[ELP_JC]

Ian, and not only that; stand-alone dealers can't afford to sell at anything below MSRP, so we as consumers lose too. I honestly wouldn't have bought my KRS at full boat (I still paid $15.5K + bags/taxes, 2 weeks before the $2K rebate kicked in), so if you add less dealers and higher prices, it's a recipe to lose marketshare quickly.

If a new dealership doesn't pop up nearby, they already lost my new-bike business because I can't justify a $20K bike with the closest dealer at over 300 miles away.

[Bruce C]

Why is having a dealer in Riverside, CA that doesn't emphasize BMWs so important when there are other dedicated stores not too far from there?

 

If you go north from Riverside the next BMW dealer is in Las Vegas, to the east its Phoenix and to the south Escondido (only 60mi.). Only where you live are there a selection of dealers to chose from ( Irv Seaver, Brown's, Malcolm Smith,BMW Hollywood, Marty's in Torrance) that are within a short drive.

Bruce C

[W. Mazelin]

Bruce:

 

Where do you live that a short ride to Pomona (from the Riverside area) would be so troubling? ELP JC will have to go over 300 miles from El Paso, TX to Sante Fe, NM. Riverside, CA to Las Vegas, NV is a shorter distance than that.

[Bruce C]

I live in Hemet. My dealer is in Escondido (62mi.), if I chose, Malcolm's is about 45mi. from me.. There are BMW riders who live in the Coachella Valley(Palm Springs, La Quinta) that are glad that Malcolm Smith is a BMW dealer. Mixed dealership or not. Any ride to San Diego or Orange county(stand alone dealers) for them would be a minimum 300mi. round trip. I know everyone in this area orders their parts, from the dealer of their choice and has them delivered by mail so as to avoid the ride in.

I'll bet that ELP JC would love to have a Yamaha/BMW dealer in El Paso just as long as that dealer could competently repair his bike. And I think that BMW should care as well.

We in Ca. are blessed by having 9 dealers in the southland, 4 in the bay area and 7 others scattered around the state for a total of 20. Other states have 0 dealers. If BMW wants to increase it's market share. I think mixed dealerships are the only way to go. BMW might not like it but the dealer owner is the one taking the financial risk. If BMW sales are not what BMWNA expects, they can take their stick and ball and go somewhere else. The dealer owner is the one that has to meet the overhead every week and in many places that is not going to be done by a stand alone BMW dealership

Mr.Kari Prager, a principal owner of California BMW in Mountain View Ca. once told me that 8% of the BMW's registered in the US are in the bay area. I believe him, and his is a BMW/Triumph dealership(although you have to go in a different door to access Triumph).

I often wonder why BMW motorcycle and BMW auto doesn't have combined dealerships, it makes sense to me.

Bruce C

[BFish]

here's your chance...grab the best mechanic and open a repair shop....pretty soon you'll have retail goodies to sell, a used moto or two. it might work.

[ELP_JC]

Hi guys. Just talked to Jeff, and this is what he was told by the area rep (dealer guys feel free to pitch in):

- ALL new and current franchises will have to have a stand-alone showroom building, but can combine service facilities with other brands (he didn't mention the timing for current franchises to comply).

- ALL dealers will have to sell at least 150 units annually starting in '06.

- ALL dealers will have to have a Master tech starting in '06.

Basically, small (volumewise) dealers will be forced out. For comparison, Deming sold about 50 BMWs a year, but 650 bikes total.

 

Now to Deming.

 

The problem: They always had 'certified' techs, and the BMW certification is issued yearly. His problem was he had to apply for re-certification last Friday and didn't do it, so BMW stopped all bike/parts shipments until it was renewed (which they knew it'd never happen). He said BMW acted by the book.

 

The reason: He wasn't going to build a new building, he wasn't going to buy 150 bikes in '06, he couldn't sell the franchise (nobody would buy it around here under the new terms), and he wasn't going to pay $10-15K for a Master tech required by Jan 1st, so he let the current certification expire. He had this discussion a week before last Friday, and decided to pull the plug (BMW was 5% of his business, and 50% of his headaches). I hope this takes care of the speculation.

 

Other info:

- Deming will continue to service BMW bikes that don't require being hooked up to the computer. Basically older models, and very basic maintenance on new ones.

- He can keep the special tools he wants, but the computer has to go back (it's leased). BMW has to buy back all the tools, parts, and bikes he wants to return.

 

That's it for now. Good day gentlemen.

[smiller]

although you have to go in a different door to access Triumph

 

How absurd. Having a customer go through a separate door at the same dealership will somehow prevent BMW from losing a sale to Triumph?

[Bruce C]

ELP_JC

I don't blame the guy in Deming NM for pulling the plug. It sounds like a mutual decision between BMW and he.

I think BMW's demands are going to be hard to meet in a small market.

Unfortunetly you and others are left with no recourse.

Bruce C

[Paul Mihalka]

Of the quoted "rules" I consider extreme that they will only keep dealers who sell more than 150 BMW a year. I checked the information I have available, and by end of JULY there were only 35 dealers in the country who sold 75 or more bikes this calendar year. If they cancel over a hundred dealers, many of their customers will not go to the next closest large volume dealer because he will be WAY too far away. The only way I would understand it is if BMW decided to seriously REDUCE their motorcycle business and keep it at a small but may be more profitable level. If they kept the forty largest dealers, and they sell a average of 200 bikes (midpoint between 150 and 250) that would be 8,000 bikes a year. A bit above half of what their current sales are. OTOH a large number of past sales were sold at huge factory incentives, which probably ment no profit to BMW.

[SC_Jack]

If THAT is BMW's new business model, the only way they will survive in the USA is to open authorized, service-centers in the smaller markets to perform warranty work. The shops could also service other bikes. That's the only way that I see them continuing to exist with this mind-set.

[ELP_JC]

Hey Paul, another indication of BMW driving small dealers out is their Master tech policy. How many bike sales do you need to justify one? The 150 number seems about right, isn't it? So now you have TWO requirements that complement each other.

And about sales, Jeff mentioned BMW sales went down from 15K units in '04, to 13K in '05; Can you confirm that? And yes, I also think a lot of those numbers are due to insane incentives.

 

The most troubling news is what Jeff also said. BMW is abandoning the typical BMW owner, who rides around the country, and expect to have a dealer nearby whenever needed. The new BMW profile will be the metropolitan owner who puts 3K miles on his bike a year (around town).

 

Talk to the owner, and let us know if any of this info is incorrect (hopefully). Otherwise BMW is making a huge mistake IMHO. Good afternoon to all.

[DavidEBSmith]

My non-wizzy brake, non-CAN bus old bike that can be fixed without computers and fancy electronic tools is looking better every day.

[270]

My non-wizzy brake, non-CAN bus old bike that can be fixed without computers and fancy electronic tools is looking better every day.

 

Amen EB...I'll like my GL1800 in silver to go along with my yet-to-be purchased '97 RT.

 

Who is the moron in charge of all of this change? The wrong marketing guy got into the right ear of the guy in charge. Pitty.

[smiller]

My non-wizzy brake, non-CAN bus old bike that can be fixed without computers and fancy electronic tools is looking better every day.

 

Was waiting for someone to make that observation.

 

It's true that the same concerns were voiced during the airhead/oilhead transition, but luckily time has proven the original items of concern (EFI, ABS, etc.) to be very reliable in service (or at least ABS was until BMW's many improvements.) Maybe the same will be true of CANbus and ESA but I have a feeling that it might be better to let someone else do the beta test this time.

[ELP_JC]

Hey Dave, I was thinking exactly the same thing about my KRS, even with its 'weezy' brakes; they're pretty reliable. Same with 1150 RTs and anything '04 and older.

The new K bikes require expensive special tools to adjust the valves, now rocker arms instead of shim-under-bucket, even though the cams sit right on top of the valves. Can't believe BMW added rotational mass just to eliminate DIY maintenance. I also don't like the new CAN-bus electrical system one bit, which also requires to hook up the computer for almost anything. All that, added to the dealer situation, helped me made the decision no more new BMWs for me. Good day.

[Ken Sallot]

Hey Paul, another indication of BMW driving small dealers out is their Master tech policy. How many bike sales do you need to justify one? The 150 number seems about right, isn't it? So now you have TWO requirements that complement each other.

And about sales, Jeff mentioned BMW sales went down from 15K units in '04, to 13K in '05; Can you confirm that? And yes, I also think a lot of those numbers are due to insane incentives.

 

The most troubling news is what Jeff also said. BMW is abandoning the typical BMW owner, who rides around the country, and expect to have a dealer nearby whenever needed. The new BMW profile will be the metropolitan owner who puts 3K miles on his bike a year (around town).

 

Talk to the owner, and let us know if any of this info is incorrect (hopefully). Otherwise BMW is making a huge mistake IMHO. Good afternoon to all.

 

If BMW is going after the "metro owner," their justification could be simple economics. The 3k a year rider who just wants to be seen toodling around on his $20,000 bike is probably more likely to buy the BMW hood ornaments, hats, shirts, and toilet paper. Not to mention, he's probably less likely to argue about paying the premium for the bike.

 

Hey this strategy did work for Harley.. Of course, they have a huge dealer network.

 

With 65k on my 3 year old bike, and having just returned from a 10 day trip downeast to Bar Harbor, I can say I love my bike, but my next purchase will probably be a honda.