crnagel Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Bike requires full choke to run, if not the engine dies. I had problems with the starter Bendix not disengaging fast and making a little grinding noise, thus I remove it to clean and oil it. For this I disconnected the battery ground wire, to avoid any potential problems. When the repair was completed I replaced everything back but the bike will not run the same since then. It feels like I'm starving it from fuel, and backfires quite often. That's why it runs better at full choke. I removed the spark plugs and found them black with soot (suspect from the rich mixture at full choke). I also washed the bike a couple of days early, but it ran fine before my starter repairs. Has anyone encountered this or similar problem?... any ideas? Thanks ahead of time. Link to comment
Boffin Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 A short check list: First - make sure the throttle cables are both firmly seated in the ferrules at the throttle bodies - very easily dislodged and hard to spot with a casual look. Then, check the disturbed cable connections are clean and tight. Then, make sure the plug leads are secure. Andy Link to comment
ShovelStrokeEd Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Your bike doesn't have a "choke". All there is is a fast idle cam which holds the throttles partially open. Mixture is controlled by the various sensors, intake air temperature, oil (coolant) temperature, barometric pressure sensor all provide input to the ECU which then modifies a base map using that information to control injector pulse width. Given that your plugs are black (is it soot or oily?) one or more of the sensors is not providing correct information. Removing the battery ground terminal will cause your ECU to reset the learned riding data so the bike might run a little strange for the first few (50 or so) miles but it should clear up pretty quickly. As Andy stated, you were working at or near the left throttle cable area, check the cables. Link to comment
Selden Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Removing the battery ground terminal will cause your ECU to reset the learned riding data so the bike might run a little strange for the first few (50 or so) miles but it should clear up pretty quickly. This is news to me, although I've heard of it with some auto ECUs, and it wouldn't surprise me on the newer R1200 engines. Is this "learning" effect described anywhere? Link to comment
T__ Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Bike requires full choke to run, if not the engine dies. I had problems with the starter Bendix not disengaging fast and making a little grinding noise, thus I remove it to clean and oil it. For this I disconnected the battery ground wire, to avoid any potential problems. When the repair was completed I replaced everything back but the bike will not run the same since then. It feels like I'm starving it from fuel, and backfires quite often. That's why it runs better at full choke. I removed the spark plugs and found them black with soot (suspect from the rich mixture at full choke). I also washed the bike a couple of days early, but it ran fine before my starter repairs. Has anyone encountered this or similar problem?... any ideas? Thanks ahead of time. crnagel, as Ed said that (choke) is just the fast idle but you still shouldn’t need it to keep the engine running.. By far the first place to check is that the throttle cables are FULLY seated in the TBI bracket furrels.. (that is the #1 problem for poor running after any work is done) Seeing as you were working on the starter side makes darn sure you didn’t pull a spark plug cable loose from the ignition coil up under the fuel tank,, make sure you didn’t bump or move the TPS sensor (located on the L/H TBI unit),, make sure it is FULLY plugged in,, check the small ground wire that runs to the bottom of the L/H TBI unit.. Verify the vacuum fittings on the bottom of the TBI units are either plugged off or have the vacuum hoses running to them.. If you unplugged any wire connectors or rubber lines make sure those are ALL re-connected & connected correctly.. Especially check that all the wires to the TPS are fully seated in the connector & making good contract & none pulled loose.. If you can’t find anything that stands out maybe hook up an analog voltmeter & track your TPS output.. It needs to be under .4 volts on the low side output at idle.. Both the high & low output should track smoothly from low to high voltage as the throttle is opened.. As far as the black sparkplugs that is pretty normal if you haven’t ridden the bike very far since the repair as they haven’t had a chance to clean up from the cold starts.. If you can’t find anything (probably just a throttle cable out of it’s TBI furrel seat ) & nothing looks out of place then post back here with a COMPLETE list of ALL you removed & did on the starter removal as maybe there is something related that we should know about.. Twisty Link to comment
breyfogle Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Removing the battery ground terminal will cause your ECU to reset the learned riding data so the bike might run a little strange for the first few (50 or so) miles but it should clear up pretty quickly. IIRC, this applies only to 1150's, not 1100's. Different version Motronic ECU's. Link to comment
Woodie Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Removing the battery ground terminal will cause your ECU to reset the learned riding data so the bike might run a little strange for the first few (50 or so) miles but it should clear up pretty quickly. IIRC, this applies only to 1150's, not 1100's. Different version Motronic ECU's. I *think* the R1100S model has the newer Motronic, where the rest of the 1100 series had the older, non-learning Motronic. Link to comment
crnagel Posted January 23, 2009 Author Share Posted January 23, 2009 You Folks are awsome..! Thanks,..! I'll try each of those things on at a time and report back by tomorrow, I dont have a fancy garage with lots of lights, I got to use "day light" for my work. Thanks.. I'll see you tomorrow CRN Link to comment
crnagel Posted January 25, 2009 Author Share Posted January 25, 2009 seeing as you were working on the starter side makes darn sure you didn’t pull a spark plug cable loose from the ignition coil up under the fuel tank... Checks OK make sure you didn’t bump or move the TPS sensor (located on the L/H TBI unit),, make sure it is FULLY plugged in. Checked OK Check the small ground wire that runs to the bottom of the L/H TBI unit.. OK If you unplugged any wire connectors or rubber lines make sure those are ALL re-connected & connected correctly.. Especially check that all the wires to the TPS are fully seated in the connector & making good contract & none pulled loose.. Checked all hoses and wire connectors.. all OK. If you can’t find anything that stands out maybe hook up an analog voltmeter & track your TPS output.. It needs to be under .4 volts on the low side output at idle.. Both the high & low output should track smoothly from low to high voltage as the throttle is opened.. I don't have an analog VOM, but cheked with a digital... ???? don't have a clear answer! How about the O2 sensor?.. any comments? Link to comment
ShovelStrokeEd Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 O2 sensor unlikely. If it delivers out of range information or not enough counts, the ECU will go into open loop mode and just ignore it. Engine might be a little rougher and a little richer but wouldn't give your original symptoms. Link to comment
T__ Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 crnagel, in re-reading the original post I see you disconnected the negative battery cable.. Any chance your bike has a Techlusion or other type aftermarket fuel controller on it? If so make sure you didn’t forget to attach the little ground wire to the battery.. If the little ground wire fell down & out of sight it would be easy to forget.. On the 02 question,, as Ed said highly unlikely but surely possible if the 02 is just corrupt enough to supply errant data without actually being shorted or open.. Sometimes the heater circuit will cross talk with the sensor output side & supply errant data or a corrupt ground can alter the output.. Try running with it (the 02) disconnected if you suspect the 02 as that will force the Motronic to use fixed fueling tables & in a lot of cases those are pretty decent on the 1100 2.2 system.. Twisty Link to comment
AndyS Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Did you get around to checking the throttle cable is absolutely correctly seated into its housing on the injector. You description of the fault really does point to this, but you have as yet made no mention of whether you have rechecked this. It is amazingly easy to either dislodge this or have the throttle cable not sitting correctly in its bellcrank because of a small piece of grit. We'd love to hear you check this off the list of things. Andy Link to comment
crnagel Posted January 31, 2009 Author Share Posted January 31, 2009 Nothing, still coughing and moaning..! Checked all cables, connections, changed gas, new plugs, put dry gas with the new full tank of gas (just to flush any potential water).. and nothing. It feels like it is starving of gas, specially when I open the throttle, and the engine dies when at a stop unless I gas it up to higher RPMs. Tomorrow I’ll try checking synchronization, and will disconnect the injector to check fuel flow, but I’m running out of ideas. Please help! Link to comment
Linz Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 It could be a *bad* Techlusion. It's been known to happen... Could you disconnect that? Linz Link to comment
crnagel Posted February 1, 2009 Author Share Posted February 1, 2009 Got it... it was a wire to the Techclusion. When I installed the starter I had one wire pinched in the back side, behing the starter. A very tough spot to find it. Thanks again for all the feedback, awesome help. CRN Link to comment
boatzo Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Good to hear that you got it fixed. Now that is one out of the way, we have not heard any more from PERPLEXED yet on his problem. Link to comment
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