Power Assisted Brakes

[Acrojack]

Just traded my '01 1150GS on a new 1200GS. Overall, a great bike with many improvements; engine, transmission, lighter weight most noticeable. But those power assisted brakes ... they're awful! Maybe you get used to them, but it seems to be a totally unnecessary feature, only adding complexity and cost. Though they do offer some thrills during low speed parking lot maneuvering for the uninitiated.

 

Seriousy, what is the advantage? Lever force is no less than any good sportbike and they're non-linear besides. And with the engine off, you're in an entirely different operating mode. Seems to be a solution looking for a problem, or perhaps creating a problem. I'd trade for my old 1150GS brakes anyday.

 

Maybe I'm over-reacting; hopefully, time and miles will make it a non-issue.

[Stickerbush]

But those power assisted brakes ... they're awful! Maybe you get used to them, but it seems to be a totally unnecessary feature, only adding complexity and cost. Though they do offer some thrills during low speed parking lot maneuvering for the uninitiated.

 

Seriousy, what is the advantage?

 

I may be wrong (and will surely be corrected if so) but I have wondered the "Why did they do this" question about the servo (power assist) brakes for a while and the answer I come up with is that it was done to implement the linked brakes feature.

 

This begs the question of "why do riders need linked brakes" but that's a different question.

[ShovelStrokeEd]

This has been discussed so often that it nearly deserves its own sticky thread.

 

The answer to the why the servo assist question is a simple one.

 

BMW tested the braking habits of a cross section of riders and found that all but the most experienced of riders were unable to use their brakes effectively. They took way too long to bring the brake pressure up to too low a level. The servo assist allows much faster brake pressure build up and, when coupled with ABS, keeps the inexperienced rider out of trouble while braking in a straight line.

 

Just in case you think your one of the good ones and don't need it, only about 5% of the riders tested actually were able to use their brakes to their full capacity. What are the odds?

[smiller]

but it seems to be a totally unnecessary feature, only adding complexity and cost.

 

Many would say that you are exactly right, but I'll leave why for the sticky thread. Or do a search on +servo +brakes and be rewarded with a weeks' worth of reading enjoyment.

[Whip]

I'm not sure about the brakes either.....I did like knowing the front and back are working together when its raining. You must get used to the feel on your own....and then get ready the first time you ride an 800lb Harley into a corner a liitle two fast!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Gadget Magnet]

On this year's vacation, I rode my servo assisted brakes bike to Colorado from Toronto, nearly 2000 miles from home, I have the brake failure light come on when I came to start the bike. Called Roadside assistance, had the bike towed 170 miles to the nearest dealer, rented a car, stayed in a hotel.. what caused it? A short in the tail light between the brake circuit and the light circuit, which effectively shut down the servo.. or so I was told. 2 days later, I'm on my way home and the problem re-occurred. This time, I figured I had no time to do this all over again and I rode my bike 1600 miles home with only residual braking power, no servo. For the 1200GS, residual braking power was good enough and I was fine with it.. Now the bike is in the local shop, and still no word on the problem. At any rate, I don't want the bike back, I can't have a break down caused by something like that.. the bike will be traded in and I have ordered a 1200GS without servo and ABS, just your run of the mill Brembo hydraulic brakes. As you say, servos are a solution looking for a problem. As much as I do like the integral braking feature, if the system monitors too many things, such as a tail light, and the system is shut down because of it, then I'd rather be without it. I thought of buying a bike of another brand, but the GS is way too much fun to give up.

[eric2]

I guess the big question is why you paid for them if you don't like 'em. Me? I think their great. They will outstop

most anything and tests with the k12s bear that fact out.

Oh and they don't fade either

 

Need some anecdotal

proof? How about blowing by a few bikes under braking?

 

Best,

 

Eric

Austin

k12s, r12gs, etc

[SC_Jack]

The servo brakes are overkill. The worst part is when you are out of warranty, they are going to cost a fortune to fix: and they're gonna break (no pun intended.........well maybe)

[David]

They will outstop most anything....

 

 

I'd sure like a source or two for that. BMWs are seldom spectacular in brake performance testing.

[KTM Doug]

I'd like to see that too! I think it was in MCN that I read a test some months ago between a GS1200 and a KTM 950. They stopped within 2 feet of each other if I remember correctly. And the KTM has a skinny little 21" front tire, not the greatest for a large stopping contact patch. Also, I tried stopping my GS1200 while just coasting down the little grade my house is on. I found residual braking to be nearly non existant. Not something I'd want to ride around on.

[Acrojack]

I wasn't aware you could get a 1200GS without the servo assist - I would have done that in a heartbeat. Is that only in Canada or in the US too? I would like the ABS but would forego that to get rid of the servo assist. The plain old brakes work just fine on my RC51. And I'll bet they'd out stop the servo assisted GS.

[steve.foote]

Also, I tried stopping my GS1200 while just coasting down the little grade my house is on. I found residual braking to be nearly non existant. Not something I'd want to ride around on.

 

Doug, nothing personal here, but I keep hearing this on various internet forums. I've tried the residual brakes on both my old RT and my new GS quite extensively and find they have more than adaquate braking power to lock the wheel of choice. They just require more lever pressure.

 

Either I'm really strong (doubt that) or I got really lucky with both bikes (possible) or some of you were unlucky and got bikes with defective brakes.

 

If your residule braking was nearly nonexistant, you might want to have the system checked out.

[PaulW42]

I also tried the residual brakes from slow speed up to about 60mph. There should certainly be plenty of power but it needs a lot more lever pressure. There also seemed to be a slight delay before there was full bite; possibly a pressure build up effect - I'm not sure whether there was an actual delay or whether it just an impression compared with the servo assisted brakes.

 

As the previous poster says, if there was no/minimal residual braking, get the brakes checked soon.

 

Paul

[JJZorro]

Just 23 kilometers after picking up my new R1200RT I lost the servo assist. A call to the dealer and I was advised to bring the bike back ASAP but that I would need more effort and indeed it did take a considerable amount of effort. I am not the strongest person around but I did manage to navigate the 23 km without much trouble. I would say the effort needed was manageble but I wouldn't want to ride in a no servo mode all day. After replacing the whole brake control unit (I had it back the next day) the bike has given me no problems at all in 5500 km.

[Gadget Magnet]

I wasn't aware you could get a 1200GS without the servo assist - I would have done that in a heartbeat. Is that only in Canada or in the US too? I would like the ABS but would forego that to get rid of the servo assist. The plain old brakes work just fine on my RC51. And I'll bet they'd out stop the servo assisted GS.

 

In it's first year of production, designated a 2004 model in Canada, servo/ABS was included. For the 2005, the base price has been dropped and servo ABS is an option. Of course, like car dealers, the more options they can sell you, the more money a dealer makes, so most bikes on dealer lots are servo ABS equipped. Don't believe any dealer who tells you they are imported by "mistake", or "euro spec" bike.. If you want it, you can order it factory direct. In the US, the non servo ABS comes without handguards, no stock bag mounts and no heated grips, although heated grips can be factory ordered for $200. In Canada, non servo ABS bikes come with all of the above.

[Gadget Magnet]

Also, I tried stopping my GS1200 while just coasting down the little grade my house is on. I found residual braking to be nearly non existant. Not something I'd want to ride around on.

 

Doug,

Once you turn off the servo, it FEELS like there are no brakes, because the effort at the lever is much higher than with power assist. I rode my bike without servo assist for over 1600 miles, from Colorado to Toronto. The brakes felt just fine without servo assist. You get used to the extra effort required pretty fast. However, I have traded my bike in for one without servo/ABS and will pick it up next week.

[smiller]

However, I have traded my bike in for one without servo/ABS and will pick it up next week.

 

I am very happy to learn that the 1200GS can be ordered without servo brakes in the US. I assume that means that the brakes are ABS, but just without the servo feature? If so that is definitely the way mine will be configured if I go with a GS. With both options available it will be interesting to see what the 'people's choice' eventually turns out to be.

[SC_Jack]

I think that the non-servo model does NOT have ABS.

BMW of Daytona recently had a couple of these models listed on EBay and ABS was not mentioned anywhere in the description.

Maybe one of the BMW sales types that are on this forum will weigh in on this,

[Paul Mihalka]

If no servo, no ABS.

[smiller]

If no servo, no ABS.

[Acrojack]

Thats obviously a design choice by BMW, not a technical issue. Some of the big Honda's, like the Gold Wing, and I believe the VFR, have had both ABS and linked brakes without servo assist for many years.

[smiller]

Thats obviously a design choice by BMW, not a technical issue. Some of the big Honda's, like the Gold Wing, and I believe the VFR, have had both ABS and linked brakes without servo assist for many years.

 

Oh yes, no one was saying differently. I was just expressing my disappointment in finding out that there are no 1200s with non-servo anti-lock brakes and that if you want ABS you must take the servo system along with it. But yes, that's simply a choice that BMW made.

[Ken H.]

If it's any consolation, having previously had an '02 R1150RT, the servo system on the R1200GS is vastly better than that one. It's all about perspective.

[smiller]

If it's any consolation, having previously had an '02 R1150RT, the servo system on the R1200GS is vastly better than that one. It's all about perspective.

Yes, that is true in my experience as well. I found the servo system on the 1150's I've ridden to be very annoying and the implementation on the 1200GS/RT to be much improved and not nearly so intrusive. But my personal preference remains biased towards a standard ABS system.

[Reddog99]

J Maybe you get used to them, but it seems to be a totally unnecessary feature, only adding complexity and cost. Though they do offer some thrills during low speed parking lot maneuvering for the uninitiated.....

Maybe I'm over-reacting; hopefully, time and miles will make it a non-issue.

 

As an owner of an '02 R1150RT "first year EVO" system, I can authoritatively say that you DO get used to them, just like Gadgetboy got used to the extra high effort required when the servo failed.

 

Pat

[Stan Walker]

Every time I get on my F650 I think the servo has failed.....

 

 

Stan

[psyctrance]

The GS is a "Adventure Tourer" type bike, which means it was meant to go off road on loose terrain. The last thing you want in those conditions is touchy brakes. I have an 1100RT now, and will be getting a GS next year. When I looked at them earlier in the year I remember them having the same system as my RT with the ability to turn off the ABS for off road use. Are these no longer available?

[Deans BMW]

The servo equiped, ABS, partially linked brakes on my R1200ST are the best motorcycle brakes that I have ever had in over 50 years of motorcycling and owning scores of motorcycles.

[Marty Hill]

Yes, they turn off on the 12GS.

[Ken H.]

What Marty said. Just to be clear though, on the R1200GS you can disable the ABS (although not on the fly) but the servo power assist is always on.

 

That being said, the new system on the R1200GS (and I presume on the R1200RT) is much less touchy and over-sensitive than the previous generation.