ltljohn Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Interesting. There is only one set of engine specs there. Does this mean that they de-tune a 1200 like they did for the F650/F800?? Link to comment
tallman Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 ?? 900?? Perhaps info at meeting this week. Link to comment
T__ Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Interesting. There is only one set of engine specs there. Does this mean that they de-tune a 1200 like they did for the F650/F800?? ltljohn, there are 2 sets of engine specs.. You need to look closely at the specs as those marked with the (*) are for the 900.. Smaller pistons & lower compression with less horsepower.. Twisty Link to comment
ully211 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 don't think there is any plan for inporting to US .... I'm told only sold in Europe to offset huge insurance bills Link to comment
codinn Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 How about those flat lids on the luggage? Available? Link to comment
VinnyR11 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 don't think there is any plan for inporting to US .... I'm told only sold in Europe to offset huge insurance bills At the same weight as the 1200 they can keep it. The RT is no screamer as it is, and it sure isn't being purchased by street racers, no matter how fast we think we are. Funny how black and white the insurance industry tries to make it. I'd feel much more safe with the extra torque of a 1200 and would argue that, with the specs given, it is at least as safe if not safer than a 900. Link to comment
johnlt Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 The bags look like the top loading RTP kind of panniers. Link to comment
ltljohn Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Interesting. There is only one set of engine specs there. Does this mean that they de-tune a 1200 like they did for the F650/F800?? ltljohn, there are 2 sets of engine specs.. You need to look closely at the specs as those marked with the (*) are for the 900.. Smaller pistons & lower compression with less horsepower.. Twisty OOPS, Ya miss things when you just glance at them too fast. Link to comment
smiller Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I can't imagine why one would want a 900cc bike with the same weight as the 1200, unless it is due to insurance requirements... but even that doesn't make much sense because I wouldn't imagine that there could be any significant difference in claims between a 900 or 1200cc version of an RT-type bike(?) Link to comment
Trinity Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Please correct me if I'm wrong, but in Britain, I believe that insurance rating "groups" are based *primarily* on engine size/displacement. (And a jump in group rating makes a BIG difference in cost of insuring your ride. ) Link to comment
T__ Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Seth, this looks to be a special usage vehicle probably a new version of the 850R.. I’m not sure why the European market has use for an 850/900 cc authority type chassis but they seem to have that need.. I know France used to (maybe still does) have an under 106hp requirement.. BTW, my BMW repair manual shows a BMW 900RT special vehicle (USA).. What market that is supposed to fill I have no idea.. Twisty Link to comment
Mister Tee Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 ltljohn, there are 2 sets of engine specs.. You need to look closely at the specs as those marked with the (*) are for the 900.. Smaller pistons & lower compression with less horsepower.. Twisty Actually, it appears that the only difference is a shorter stroke (different crankshaft) which results in a smaller displacement and lower compression ratio. I'm guessing so it can more effectively deal with low grade gasoline. Link to comment
T__ Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 ltljohn, there are 2 sets of engine specs.. You need to look closely at the specs as those marked with the (*) are for the 900.. Smaller pistons & lower compression with less horsepower.. Twisty Actually, it appears that the only difference is a shorter stroke (different crankshaft) which results in a smaller displacement and lower compression ratio. I'm guessing so it can more effectively deal with low grade gasoline. M.T, actually it is a bore difference (87.5 vs 101).. According to the info available they both require Unleaded premium, octane rumber 98 (RON), can also be operated with minimum octane number 95 (RON) due to automatic knock control.. For regular fuel usage it would make more sense to just lower the compression with different pistons or thicker head gaskets than use both new pistons & cylinders.. There is way more to this than just regular fuel usage.. Twisty Link to comment
cali_beemer Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 as far as I can see this is all strictly for the police. If you go back to the homepage, you will notice an R850R as well for the police but I wouldnt expect to see that either. I think you will only see this as police and nothign but. BMW has already brought out the F800ST for a smaller sport touring bike. An R900RT would not have a place in the lineup. However, it would be nice to see them make the F800ST more of a touring oriented bike like the RT. It seems the F800St is too similar to the S model. Now drop the seat height on the F800, give it fairing like the RT, cruise control, heated everythign and trip computer. That bike would sell like hot cakes. Link to comment
R80RTKen Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 So this is entirely an insurance / license regulatory consideration? Link to comment
Dave in Doodah Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 And 83 N-M of torque... crimenny, that's more than my 1150! ...due to the slightly longer stroke, i would guess? 87.5 mm x 73 mm vs. 101 x 70.5 mm Link to comment
T__ Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 So this is entirely an insurance / license regulatory consideration? Ken in a word NO… The R900RT is only sold as an authority motorcycle,, like police,, government,, special assignment or special duty.. From BMW___ "Wide range of applications. The versatility of the BMW R 900 RT/ R 1200 RT predestines this motorcycle internationally as a representative and reliable companion for the armed forces, fire brigade, escorts, rescue and roadside assistance services" Twisty Link to comment
Dave in Doodah Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I'm confused - if you apply that logic, based on this statement the 1200 is also only available to authorities... Not a big deal. I'm just sayin'.... Link to comment
ollka Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Authority vehicles are chosen by different measures. In city service you dont need 1200cc. (Actually you dont need that either) There are thousends of F650 Beemers in Police duty in Europe. Smaller engine, less fuel. Lighter moving parts, less wear. Link to comment
T__ Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I'm confused - if you apply that logic, based on this statement the 1200 is also only available to authorities... Not a big deal. I'm just sayin'.... Dave, I didn’t apply that logic BMW did.. They make both a civilian & authority version of the R1200RT but it seems they only make an authority version of the R900RT.. That statement I posted above was from the BMW authority site so that would be for the authority side of the R1200RT.. Twisty Link to comment
BULLman Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 The bags look like the top loading RTP kind of panniers. All the bikes from that site seem to be Authority bikes. As others have mentioned, I believe this is a European model. Link to comment
Dave in Doodah Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Cool - thanks Twisty. Link to comment
Mark P Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Please correct me if I'm wrong, but in Britain, I believe that insurance rating "groups" are based *primarily* on engine size/displacement. (And a jump in group rating makes a BIG difference in cost of insuring your ride. ) I'm not 100% certain, but I think that you are wrong. My understanding that the insurance rating groups are based on overall performance rather than simply capacity. That's certainly the case for cars and I think for bikes too. I somehow can't really believe that Authorities users would be that much affected by Insurance ratings as I imagine they would have special insurance arrangements that differ from we normal members of the public (I would have thought for example that an Insurance company would be more concerned that you intend to pursue criminals with the bike than it's relative engine capacity!). I suspect that this model is intended for Authorities users where performance is not the major requirement, but where fuel consumption benefits may make it attractive. The specs don't quote fuel consumption figures for both, so it's not possible to see what the benefits might be. Link to comment
porterjet Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Well, it is the "Official and special duty vehicles" website. Link to comment
TNT Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 However, it would be nice to see them make the F800ST more of a touring oriented bike like the RT. It seems the F800St is too similar to the S model. Now drop the seat height on the F800, give it fairing like the RT, cruise control, heated everythign and trip computer. That bike would sell like hot cakes. ++1 Link to comment
upflying Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Harley also makes a "small" police motorcycle. Never seen one but some agencies choose smaller bikes for local, city congestion type use where high speed use isn't expected. (Washington DC PD is an example) Another reason why a LEO agency would choose a model with less pwoer has to do with the politics of disability retirements. LEO command staff think slower bikes with less high speed performance is more likely to keep the officer out of trouble. This is a major reason why agencies have not been beating down Honda's door to buy ST1300P's and the very speedy Hemi Dodge Charger with the police package. Here is a pic of the police Sportster...883 BTW. Link to comment
Bob_Minor Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 However, it would be nice to see them make the F800ST more of a touring oriented bike like the RT. It seems the F800St is too similar to the S model. Now drop the seat height on the F800, give it fairing like the RT, cruise control, heated everythign and trip computer. That bike would sell like hot cakes. ++1 And give it another 100cc to compensate for the extra weight. An F900RT would finally plug the gap that should have been filled with a 3 cylinder K900RT. Link to comment
John Bentall Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 This is probably the third time this thread has been repeated - nothing wrong with that, I suppose. We still do not know how many R900RT's have actually been sold! It's predecessor, the R850RT, was popular with authorities such as fire departments, road traffic patrols, and driver examination authorities where power was not a consideration, plus there were insurance aspects in some European countries. For example the R850RT was actively marketed to the general public in Holland but not the UK. The smaller engine was deemed by many to be smoother and sweeter, so each agency could make its choice according to its needs. Link to comment
Mister Tee Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 M.T, actually it is a bore difference (87.5 vs 101).. According to the info available they both require Unleaded premium, octane rumber 98 (RON), can also be operated with minimum octane number 95 (RON) due to automatic knock control.. For regular fuel usage it would make more sense to just lower the compression with different pistons or thicker head gaskets than use both new pistons & cylinders.. There is way more to this than just regular fuel usage.. Twisty Oh, yeah, read it backwards. Makes sense. Link to comment
sundaeman Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Parts fiche shows two runs of US R900RTs built in 2005. I read somewhere a while back that R900RT bikes were aimed at markets with power restrictions. Also read something about Asian markets. Link to comment
FrankP Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Here in British Columbia, insurance rates are based on engine displacement - the R1200RT is in a bad place for that, since the "class" below ends at 1150cc (and we're at 1170) - I believe the extra we pay our government monopoly insurance company because of that extra 20cc, is about $400. There is also a surcharge for some bikes which are arbitrarily (just based on model I believe) classed as "sport" bikes. Link to comment
Francois_Dumas Posted January 22, 2009 Author Share Posted January 22, 2009 Bureaucrats are the same the world over, no matter what sort of government they 'serve': they always find ways to punish 'success'...... I suppose it is out of jealousy. Link to comment
Mark P Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 I believe the extra we pay our government monopoly insurance company because of that extra 20cc, is about $400. Wow that's more than my entire annual insurance cost! Link to comment
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