Perplexed

[SKYGZR]

Ok, after replacing the HES on the R, and preforming a Canisterectomy, the machine is "acting up." By "acting up" means the following: A bit hard to start, won't idle very well, and won't hold a constant smooth throttle. This is not surging, it's more like barely rideable.

 

Trying to hold the throttle at say 3,000-4,000 RPM, it will cut out, spit and cough,(no back fire) drop revs, then pick back up, then drop back down, then up, then down. Engine even dies out while trying to accelerate, or when backing off on the throttle.(quiets running, have to pull in the clutch and hit the starter button to re-start.)

 

One thing I did do when doing the Canistrectomy, was to route both of the tubes coming from the fuel tank down behind the right foot peg. One of them is the over flow drain, and the other is for venting? These are the two tubes that attach to the filter/pump assembly, then route up inside the tank to the black overfill unit attached to the filler neck assembly. Could this one hose be pulling a negative vacuum causing this stumbling and dieing?

 

(After reading some other threads, I doubt this to be the case.)

 

I also pulled the CCR, and the #5 fuse, this seemed to make things worse.

 

The vacuum tubes on the throttle bodies have been plugged, and are not leaking there. Don't believe this is a fuel issue, since I just filled the tank from the local Chevron where I fuel all the time, and never had had "bad" gas from there.

 

Ideas???

[lvnvbiker]

Sounds like a vacuum leak to me with the surging and so on, also check your fuel lines for kinks.

[Boffin]

Check the throttle cables. I bet one has become unseated from the ferrule on the throttle body.

 

Andy

[T__]

SKYGZR,

 

A few things come to mind..

 

Start by physically blowing back up through BOTH the tank vent line & the water drain of line with the tank filler open.. It should then be evident if they are open & working.. (plugged or pinched tank vent could be your problem)

 

 

Next,, make darn sure you didn’t get the than fuel tank outlet line & the fuel return line mixed up.. (that can also cause runability problems)..

 

With working on both the fuel & ignition systems at the same time you have complicated the troubleshooting process.. You could have a fuel issue or just as easily have a spark related issue..

 

 

As Andy mentioned check the throttle cables for being seated correctly.. Also make sure you didn’t pull the TPS sensor or oil temperature sensor wire loose from it’s connector..

 

 

If none of the above helps or makes it better try disconnecting the 02 sensor.. If you tie strapped or routed the 02 sensor wire near a spark plug wire cut it loose as that can mess up the 02 signal make it run like yours is.

 

Twisty

 

[SKYGZR]

SKYGZR,

 

A few things come to mind..

 

Start by physically blowing back up through BOTH the tank vent line & the water drain of line with the tank filler open.. It should then be evident if they are open & working.. (plugged or pinched tank vent could be your problem)

 

**They should be, as I did nothing to the internals of the tank. As a matter of fact, didn't even remove the tank, just slid it back to get to the HES plug**

 

 

Next,, make darn sure you didn’t get the than fuel tank outlet line & the fuel return line mixed up.. (that can also cause runability problems)..

 

**Probably not an issue, as I left both hoses attached to the plastic disconnect, and just routed the other one down along side of the one already there**

 

With working on both the fuel & ignition systems at the same time you have complicated the troubleshooting process.. You could have a fuel issue or just as easily have a spark related issue..

 

**As mentioned previously, did nothing to the fuel system, and the coil checked out OK, that's why I replaced the HES when it didn't have spark**

 

 

As Andy mentioned check the throttle cables for being seated correctly.. Also make sure you didn’t pull the TPS sensor or oil temperature sensor wire loose from it’s connector..

 

**TPS sensor hook up is secure, oil temp sensor is also secure**

I didn't mess with either of those or the throttle bodies or cables at all**

 

Perhaps i'll check the Air box sensor, since it may have been dislodged when I slid the tank back, yet it looked to be fine upon buttoning it up

 

If none of the above helps or makes it better try disconnecting the 02 sensor.. If you tie strapped or routed the 02 sensor wire near a spark plug wire cut it loose as that can mess up the 02 signal make it run like yours is.

 

**I suppose I could do this, yet this should have no affect on runability should it?? I haven't messed with any of the wiring relating to the O2 sensor**

 

Twisty

[T__]

SKYGZR,

 

Do check the throttle cables as almost ANYTHING you do while working on the engine can allow one of those to be pulled or snagged & pulled up out of it’s TBI furrel.. About anybody that has ever worked on an oil head has pulled one of those out of position at one time or another..

 

The AIT (air inlet temperature) probably has little effect on your situation as that is used more for slight spark adjustments & open loop fuel table attenuation)

 

The 02 sensor can really cause you runabiliy problems as bad or worse than you are seeing if the 02 sensor circuit is seeing the high frequency from a plug wire.. That voltage spike getting back to the Motronic will flat drive it crazy..

 

 

Twisty

 

[breyfogle]

IMHO, your symptoms sound like an ignition timing problem. You just finished working on the HES and I'm sure you think everything is as it should be but I would double check your HES work, and then check it one more time.

 

It's unlikely that a canisterectomy would cause so many different serious runability problems.

 

My $0.02

 

 

[SKYGZR]

IMHO, your symptoms sound like an ignition timing problem. You just finished working on the HES and I'm sure you think everything is as it should be but I would double check your HES work, and then check it one more time.

 

It's unlikely that a canisterectomy would cause so many different serious runability problems.

 

My $0.02

 

 

I Made sure to scribe the original HES, and engine prior to removal. I then measured that scribe, and scribed the new one prior to install, to align it with the previous mark on the engine.

 

The engine was at TDC, and the flywheel was locked in place for removal and retrofit. Granted, it might not be exact, but should be close enough that this wouldn't be such an issue.

[SKYGZR]

Check the throttle cables. I bet one has become unseated from the ferrule on the throttle body.

 

Andy

 

**Nope, cables are fine, each throttle body operates correctly when twisting the grip, and "fast idle/choke" functions correctly also**

[StuGotz]

Don't know about your model, but did you have battery disconnected?

 

Did a TB reset?

 

also/ Do you have vacuum when you remove tank cap?

 

MB>

[SKYGZR]

Don't know about your model, but did you have battery disconnected? **Year is '96 1100 (see my signature)

**No Battery Disconnect**

Did a TB reset? **Evidently, this unit with Motronic 2.2 is not affected with the re-set issue, only 2.4**

 

also/ Do you have vacuum when you remove tank cap? **No, opens "normally" no "wooshing" or other abnormal noises**

 

MB>

[Jim Moore]

Man, I would have bet $50 that you had a throttle cable out of place. You're sure one of the cables is not sitting on the lip of the adjuster?

 

My next thought is a clogged fuel filter or a fuel line loose in the tank. Maybe you stirred up a bunch of sediment in your tank when you pulled it off, or knocked a fuel line loose.

[SKYGZR]

Man, I would have bet $50 that you had a throttle cable out of place. You're sure one of the cables is not sitting on the lip of the adjuster?

 

**Yup, double checked 'em this morning, seated good, and full actuation upon twisting the throttle**

 

My next thought is a clogged fuel filter or a fuel line loose in the tank. Maybe you stirred up a bunch of sediment in your tank when you pulled it off, or knocked a fuel line loose.

 

**Fuel filter is relatively new, and is mounted outside of the tank. The tank has not been removed since the filter was relocated in late June, nor have the internals been removed or worked on since then also** The tank is not contaminated with any sediment***

 

[T__]

SKYGZR, well we have pretty well covered the easy stuff..

 

Probably going to take some more troubleshooting on your part to either feed us more info or for to find a failure direction on the bike then pursue that..

 

I guess your problem is going to boil down to (spark/ign related),, or (fuel related),, or (air related),, or (compression related) or some variant of the above..

 

You might have a fuel pressure or lack of flow problem (have seen the pump hose inside the fuel tank split then only offer a small quality of fuel at a very low pressure) or possibly a pinched fuel line up under the fuel tank,, etc.. Could also be a fuel related problem due to the fueling computer’s receiving faulty data from one or more sensors..

 

Might be a spark related problem from the HES,, the coil,, the plugs,, the fueling computer receiving faulty sensor data,, etc..

 

Could be an air flow/compression problem due to engine related malfunction like low compression or leaking valves..

 

I guess you should run a fuel pressure/fuel flow test,, run a compression test,, try placing a timing light on the engine while running it to see if you have constant spark at the correct timing,, etc..

 

A couple of other things to consider—

 

IF,, you have a fuel controller on that bike (like the Techlusion TFI) try completely disconnecting that as those can go bonkers & cause all kinds of runability problems (don’t just turn it off completely disconnect it)..

 

Can you tell us exactly when the problem started? Did it appear right after the HES replacement or was the bike acting up before the HES problem?

 

 

Twisty

 

[SKYGZR]

Can you tell us exactly when the problem started? Did it appear right after the HES replacement or was the bike acting up before the HES problem?

Twisty

Twisty,

The machine was running fine up till it stranded me. Upon Replacing the HES, and doing the Canisterectomy, I rode it into town last Thursday, and ran Ok, then back on Friday, and didn't notice anything abnormal. Fueld up, and then to the Garage. Rode it to town again on Monday with no ill effects. Started acting up on the way back Monday Night. Removed the CCR before trying to ride it Tuesday morning, when it was un-rideable, rode it back to the garage, and jumped on the K. It seems to run a bit better as it warms up, yet this has me stumped. It could be "bad fuel", yet as mentioned previously, same Chevron station as usual, and I fueld the K the from the same pump, at the same station, the night before, and it's running fine. Suppose i'll tear into it to check further. I double checked the fitment of the plug wires to the coil to make sure they were fully seated before I slid the tank back into position. Happen to know the resistance of the plug wires?

[smiller]

Nope, cables are fine, each throttle body operates correctly when twisting the grip, and "fast idle/choke" functions correctly also

You might hate me for saying this but... are you absolutely certain? I only say this because we've had many instances where someone initially reported the cables as being properly seated but upon second (or third) inspection realized that they really weren't. And FWIW if the right TB cable is out of place (very common) the fast idle functionality won't be affected on a '96 model.

[T__]

SKYGZR, I don’t have the wire specs in any data here on my computer.. I have a good wire set in my shop at home but won’t get to measure those until I return home sometime in the future..

 

In any case the wire resistance should be close to the same side to side & TVRS plug wires can run up to 12,000-14,000 ohms per foot..

 

A good rule in runability diagnosis & a good place to start is to look at what was done just before the problem showed up..

In your case that was to add fuel.. So maybe pull a fuel line or injector line & pump a clear bottle full of fuel then let it sit & look for signs of water..

 

You didn’t say if you have an aftermarket fuel controller on that bike? If so that is also a good candidate to look at..

 

 

Twisty

 

[Steve W.]

*SWAG* The actuator "can" for the HES has slipped on the crank. The tab was damaged when re-installing the pully.

Check the timing by watching the flywheel marks and listening for the fuel pump.

Happy Hunting

Steve

[94aero]

learning in process!

[SKYGZR]

*SWAG* The actuator "can" for the HES has slipped on the crank. The tab was damaged when re-installing the pully.

Check the timing by watching the flywheel marks and listening for the fuel pump.

Happy Hunting

Steve

 

I double checked the location and fitment of this also when installing the Pulley to make sure the tab was properly situated in the notch, and tourqued the bolt to manual spec of 44ft/lbs. I'll recheck this also when i begin tracking this down, yet should be OK.

[Skywagon]

Sounds just like what happened to my RT last year. Just filled up with Shell best grade....After much trouble shooting and hauling to BMW dealer, BAD FUEL....

[tallman]

Possible bad fuel, yes.

Twisty, doesn't he need to plug the end of the big vent hose and not just let it dangle?

[T__]

Twisty, doesn't he need to plug the end of the big vent hose and not just let it dangle?

 

 

Tim, you can’t plug the end of the tank vent hose or it won’t then vent (must be open to atmosphere) .. The vacuum ports on the TBI’s need to be plugged to prevent a vacuum leak maybe that is what you are thinking of?

 

 

Twisty

 

[SKYGZR]

Tim, you can’t plug the end of the tank vent hose or it won’t then vent (must be open to atmosphere) .. The vacuum ports on the TBI’s need to be plugged to prevent a vacuum leak maybe that is what you are thinking of?

Twisty

 

Well that's what I thought last night. Thought I had it solved. Took a look at the Rubber caps I put on those ports, and noticed they were split. So I fashioned some different ones with some of the original tubing, with a tight fitting bolt threaded into the other end. Hit the start button with the fast idle selector set to the first stage, and it starts, stumbles, then settles into a nice high smooth idle..just like it should. Yippie problem solved.

 

OOPS..not so fast Mr. Smarty Pants...Gonna ride it into town this morning..starts and idles just fine, about the same place as before,(aprx 2.5 miles from the garage) it starts cutting out, stumbles, then dies. This time it won't start back up.. So I park it on the side of the Highway and get prepared to huff it back, when a neighbor happens to see me. Gives me a ride back to the garage, get a tow strap, and back to the machine. Before we hook up to tow, hit the starter, and it fires, runs OK.. He follows me back..till about 3/4 mile from the garage, it stumbles and dies again.. We hook up, and he tows me the final distance.

 

So now I'm leaning to it being a fuel thing. Weird that it runs OK till it warms up (4-Bars or so), then it spits, stumbles, and dies. Yet when it's "cold" seems to run OK. Will be draining the tank this weekend.

[T__]

SKYGZR, you positive the tank vent is open & working? You might check that again..

 

You never did answer on the aftermarket fuel controller those things can get moisture in them & do exactly what you are getting (couple of miles from home & an engine quit or very poor running)..

 

The HES can also act up as the engine heats up (you sure you have a good one)

 

Twisty

 

[SKYGZR]

SKYGZR, you positive the tank vent is open & working? You might check that again..

 

**Yes, blew back through each tube last night with the cap open, no problems there**

 

You never did answer on the aftermarket fuel controller those things can get moisture in them & do exactly what you are getting (couple of miles from home & an engine quit or very poor running)..

 

**NO fuel controller on this machine**

 

The HES can also act up as the engine heats up (you sure you have a good one)

 

**Brand New Bosch from beemerboneyard**

 

Twisty

[outpost22]

Just a shot in the dark here, but the next time it stumbles and quits, open the fuel filler and try starting it, just to see if it's a fuel venting problem. I met a guy stalled out on a new Triumph last year and his bike had your symptoms. I had him open his gas cap and start it and it ran great. Just a thought.

 

Another "fix" is to drain the fuel out of it and refill with new gas to eliminate water as as an issue.

[breyfogle]

Another possibility to think about:

 

Water in the fuel tank. The scenario goes something like this

 

(1) Get some water in the gas tank, bad gas - whatever...

(2) When the bike sits, the water settles to the lowest point because its heavier than gas.

(3) Bike starts, idles and runs initially just fine because the water is not being sucked in by the fuel pump

(4) After riding a few miles, the fuel/water get jostled a bit and partially mixed, the fuel pump begins to pick up some water.

(5) Bike begins to run poorly.

(6) Rider stops and parks the bike for sufficient time for the water to settle again

(7) Repeat beginning at #2

[Slyder_Steve]

Okay,

 

I'm not the tech expert here...I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night...but I have been following this thread.

 

You say you got a brand new HES...when all else fails, go to the most likely culprit...HES.

 

Might have got a bad one...even new in box...it happens.

 

Slyder

[ElevenFifty]

+1 on Steve's comment ... suspect 'bad in the box' HES. The problem is temperature related.

[AndyS]

Can't say i am with you on this. It hasn't failed like a typical HES symptom. I'd rather see a tank flush first or even the check for pressurisation at the point when the bike stops.

I will agree that the last major thing fettled with was the HES but the symtom just doesn't seem to fit.

 

Andy

[SKYGZR]

Can't say i am with you on this. It hasn't failed like a typical HES symptom. I'd rather see a tank flush first or even the check for pressurisation at the point when the bike stops.

I will agree that the last major thing fettled with was the HES but the symtom just doesn't seem to fit.

 

Andy

 

That's where I'm leaning to. I'm going to drain the tank (the best I can without removing it), it only has about 60 miles since filled, so there's probably about 4 gallons or so in it. Since the fuel filter has been relocated outside, i'll be able to flush/drain it easily also. Once I get the fuel out, i'll be able to see if there might be any water mixed in with it. Not sure how much would have to be mixed in to cause these symptoms, yet seems it would have to be a fair amount. Since both vent and over flow tubes are clear, abnormal pressure/vaccum shouldn't be an issue.

 

The station where I fueled got a fresh load of petrol on Sunday. I just refueled the K from the same pump/nozzle last night, and is running just fine.

[4wheeldog]

I got a load of watered fuel in my R1150RT once. It would not idle, or run well below 3000rpm. I drained the tank with a 1/4" piece of tubing, and there was maybe a pint of water in the bottom of the can. I poured the fuel back in very carefully, leaving a quart of fuel/water mix in the can. Bike ran fine after the drain and refill. Whatever water was left in the tank and filter caused no issues, and was flushed through with fresh fuel. Good Luck!

[tallman]

$6 bucks at harbor freight

[SKYGZR]

OK. this is starting to P:mad:ss me off. Drained the tank, disconnected the fuel filter and cycled the key on/off to pump out more fuel (remember, the filter is located outside of the tank), then started it up to run it "dry"..Ran Fine..with the the Fast Idle OK, and Idle like it should with no Fast Idle engaged, throttle response was "normal". Ran well enough that I had to get a fan to blow on the headers as they were glowing red.

 

Dumped 3 gallons of "fresh" fuel in, damn it if it won't take the "fast idle", let alone run (or keep running). Won't start trying to "give it some throttle" with the fast idle off. When it does idle, it's rough, and won't take any throttle period. Dies immeadiatly upon trying to give it any throttle period. Stumbles, and hiccups, a bit of "muffled" brumps (like a muffled back fire), stalls, quits. Ran the battery down trying to get it Running.

 

So we're back to square one. Fuel filter flowed just fine, so that isn't plugged or malfunctioning. Any more Ideas??

[Richard_D]

Sounds electrical. My bet is a coil.

[SKYGZR]

Sounds electrical. My bet is a coil.

 

Coil was checked for resistance when replacing the HES, and checked out OK.

[outpost22]

Did you open the fuel filler cap while this was going on to see if it could be a venting issue?

[SKYGZR]

Did you open the fuel filler cap while this was going on to see if it could be a venting issue?

 

Yup,tried that also. Since both tubes from the tank (vent/overflow) are "open" (tested by blowing back through them with cap open), this has been eliminated as a potential problem area. There is no "wooshing" sound upon opening the tank filler cap.

[Richard_D]

I'm betting on the throttle cable out of the ferrule or pinched vent line. Just did an LT, the guy talked about how the machine ran really crappy if he put more than 3 gallons in the tank AND his fuel gauge stopped working about the time this problem started. Pinched vent line was the problem, the fuel pump produced enough vacuum to collapse the fuel tank and BEND the tube the fuel level sending unit traveled in.

(This is from a BMW mechanic)

[T__]

SKYGZR, well if ran good for a few minutes that eliminates a throttle cable out of position in the TBI furrels,, also if it didn’t run correctly right after adding fuel it isn’t a tank vent problem as it takes a fair amount of running time for a tank vent problem to show up (especially if the tank wasn’t completely filled)..

 

When you drained the fuel tank did you remove it & dump it out or just pump it out using the in-tank fuel pump.. If you just used the in-tank pump maybe some water still remained in the far side of the tank over the center hump so when you added new fuel it stirred that into the fuel mix.. Did you trap the removed fuel then place it in a bottle or jar then allow to settle out,, then look for water?.

 

If you are absolutely sure there is/was NO water left in the fuel tank then you either have a fuel pump/pressure/delivery issue or your problem isn’t fuel related..

 

Have you tried disconnecting the 02 sensor like I suggested above? Starting a cold engine the Motronic disregards the 02 sensor for a few minutes until engine warmup so could run good on cold start then act up as the engine heats & the 02 comes on line..

 

Do you an inductive timing light? If so place that on one of the spark plug wires,, then shoot it into timing hole of the engine’s R/H side.. Watch the spark position as the engine runs & see if you see a spark change as the engine starts to act up (maybe catch a spark problem)

 

I know you said you didn’t have problem there but are you absolutely sure you didn’t knock the oil temp connector loose from the oil temp sensor when you installed the new HES? If that Motronic isn’t get a proper engine temp signal it will run like crap..

 

Twisty

 

[breyfogle]

After you put the fresh fuel in and it would not run, was the engine still hot ?

[tallman]

Twisty, that's why I suggested the fuel siphon pump above.

Get everything out of there first.

Then proceed.

Otherwise could be chasing tail.

[SKYGZR]

When you drained the fuel tank did you remove it & dump it out or just pump it out using the in-tank fuel pump.. If you just used the in-tank pump maybe some water still remained in the far side of the tank over the center hump so when you added new fuel it stirred that into the fuel mix.. Did you trap the removed fuel then place it in a bottle or jar then allow to settle out,, then look for water?.

 

**I siphoned out as much as possible, then disconnected the external fuel filter, and cycled the key off and on, pumping out more fuel, hooked it back up, tried starting it, it started, ran fine till it was "dry", couldn't suck up any more fuel, or wouldn't restart. The tank was as empty as it could get by leaving it on the machine. I drained about 2 gallons into a clear plastic

jug, no evidence of water contamination.***

 

If you are absolutely sure there is/was NO water left in the fuel tank then you either have a fuel pump/pressure/delivery issue or your problem isn’t fuel related..

 

**See the above** Tank was pretty much "bone" dry. If there was any water left it would have been minimal, and when mixed with 3 gallons of "fresh" fuel, it would have mixed , and shouldn't be an issue..Like I said, it ran Just Fine while running the tank Dry.**

 

Have you tried disconnecting the 02 sensor like I suggested above? Starting a cold engine the Motronic disregards the 02 sensor for a few minutes until engine warmup so could run good on cold start then act up as the engine heats & the 02 comes on line..

 

**Haven't tried this yet, as the symptoms and the way events have happened, this isn't affecting what's happening.**It's not even wanting to start and run hardly at all with the addition of the "fresh" fuel, as it ran just fine while running it "dry"**This isn't making any sense**

 

 

Do you an inductive timing light? If so place that on one of the spark plug wires,, then shoot it into timing hole of the engine’s R/H side.. Watch the spark position as the engine runs & see if you see a spark change as the engine starts to act up (maybe catch a spark problem)

 

**I could try this, yet like i said, it'll barely keep running at all with the fast idle engaged**

 

I know you said you didn’t have problem there but are you absolutely sure you didn’t knock the oil temp connector loose from the oil temp sensor when you installed the new HES? **

 

**Yes the Oil temp sensor wire (the one behind the Oil Level Window) is connected***

 

If that Motronic isn’t get a proper engine temp signal it will run like crap..

 

Twisty

[T__]

SKYGZR, you got most of the old fuel out of the R/H side of the tank but there was still probably some remaining below the pump pickup.. You also probably didn’t get all the fuel from the L/H side of the tank as there is no fuel pickup on that side of the tank so anything below the center hump probably remained over on that side.. Maybe adding the new fuel stirred the remaining back into the new fuel supply..

 

If it again starts & runs good after sitting for a while you might ride the bike a few feet while stopping hard or shake it around,, then when it starts to run bad again quickly grab a fuel sample from the pump outlet at the external fuel filter.. Or if it is running bad now just remove the fuel filter & drain that into a jar..

The existing water won’t mix with the new fuel so adding new fuel to any water that remained in the tank will only bring the problem back.. The water (if you do in fact have a water problem) will quickly settle to the bottom of the tank as it is heavier than gasoline..

 

I'm still not sure what your problem is but I'm also convinced you didn't clean your tank out enough if you had contanination in there..

 

 

Twisty

 

[bmwmick]

Sky,

If you have Quick Disconnects on the fuel lines, disconnect and then reconnect them. Also look at all the hose connections in the tank. Watch for an internal leak under pressure. Also, I would disconnect and reconnect the TPS connector. A disconnected TPS can cause exactly what you are experiencing.

 

Mick

[SKYGZR]

SKYGZR, you got most of the old fuel out of the R/H side of the tank but there was still probably some remaining below the pump pickup.. You also probably didn’t get all the fuel from the L/H side of the tank as there is no fuel pickup on that side of the tank so anything below the center hump probably remained over on that side.. Maybe adding the new fuel stirred the remaining back into the new fuel supply..

 

**That is a possibility, yet I leaned the machine over a few times to the right to try to slosh some residual fuel over to that side. It's not making sense as to why after siphoning, and key actuating the fuel pump (till the filter wasn't spitting anything but air), that it started and ran fine. One would think that's when all the water (if any) would have been the most concentrated, and the machine would have then done what it's doing now**

 

If it again starts & runs good after sitting for a while

 

**Tried it again this morning, same scenario**

 

you might ride the bike a few feet while stopping hard or shake it around,,

 

**ride it?? Hell, can't even get it to throttle, let alone ride it**

 

then when it starts to run bad again quickly grab a fuel sample from the pump outlet at the external fuel filter.. Or if it is running bad now just remove the fuel filter & drain that into a jar..

The existing water won’t mix with the new fuel so adding new fuel to any water that remained in the tank will only bring the problem back.. The water (if you do in fact have a water problem) will quickly settle to the bottom of the tank as it is heavier than gasoline..

 

I'm still not sure what your problem is but I'm also convinced you didn't clean your tank out enough if you had contanination in there..

 

**As mentioned above, it should have exibited this no run/rough idle symptom when there was almost no fuel in the tank,yet it ran fine, idled OK, and didn't die upon giving it a twist of the throttle. Not with three gallons of a fresh load of fuel**

 

I do have a spare filter, perhaps I'll change that and see what happens.

 

 

Twisty

[SKYGZR]

Sky,

If you have Quick Disconnects on the fuel lines, disconnect and then reconnect them.

**NO disconnects on this machine**

 

Also look at all the hose connections in the tank.

 

**The tank is not leaking, the internals haven't been removed/worked on since relocating the filter out side the tank. Since it ran fine while running it "dry", seems everything should be functioning correctly**

 

Watch for an internal leak under pressure. Also, I would disconnect and reconnect the TPS connector. A disconnected TPS can cause exactly what you are experiencing.

 

**Yup, did try this also, and it's hooked up, and "locked" OK**

 

Mick

[Boone60]

My bike, I'd drain every bit of gas out of the bike and put fresh gas in. I've experienced the agony of water in fuel from freshly pumped gas and the worst time on a truck; there was so much that it filled a fuel pump and when it froze it cracked the pump.

[T__]

SKYGZR, I guess once you clear the fuel system as being the problem move on to testing the engine sensors.. Oil temp,, RPM input,, TPS,, 02 can all effect your engine operation & make it run like your is..

 

Maybe try pulling the fuel return hose where it connects to the tank hose then run an extension on that then into a glass bottle.. That will allow you to look at a few things.. First it will show you what (quality) of fuel you are seeing at the fuel injectors (will also show any water delivered) ,, next it will show you if you have enough fuel pump pressure/flow to even open the pressure regulator valve,, it will also show you how much fuel is flowing “to” the injectors.. – I guess if all OK here & no water shows up in the bottle after sitting you can pretty well pass the fuel system as not being the cause.. You really should rig a fuel pressure gauge but the above will tell you a lot about your fuel system..

 

Maybe next try disconnecting the 02 sensor just to eliminate a simple test like that.

 

Maybe try new spark plugs (or known good used) just to eliminate that as any possible area of concern..

 

If still a problem then move on to testing the TPS (both high & low output sides) & check the curb idle TPS voltage to be under .4volts.. Make sure the TPS supply voltage is around 5 volts +/- not much..

 

Pull the oil temp sensor & track that from freezer cold to heated oil hot using an ohmmeter (should see a nice even controlled sweep of the resistance with no jumps or holes in the tracking)

 

Ohm out all the wires including grounds from the oil temp sensor & TPS back to the Motronic.. Make sure the Motronic is seeing the HES signal..

 

 

Verify you are getting full voltage to the ign coil & fuel injectors as low voltage to either of those will drive your system crazy..

 

With all you have done & not have it run right you are going to have to get more personal with that machine..

 

 

Added__when it is running bad & misfiring & won’t run worth crap pull both spark plugs to see if they are wetted out with fuel/water.. If they are bone dry suspect low fuel delivery.. If plugs are wet suspect something that won’t burn like water in fuel or a lack of spark..

Twisty