waylap Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 I've read up on the FD failures and it concerned me a little to have such a nice bike with a potential problem like this possibly looming in the future. I may have motorcycle hypochondria or something. Anyway, from what I understand, you will start to see hints of the problem with metal bits in the FD fluid, leaking FD fluid and the noise similar to riding over highway expansion joints. To get a jump on the problem, you would change the FD fluid frequently to inspect it. What I'm not sure about is what happens next. Do you buy a new one? Take the old one apart and have it rebuilt? What are the costs going to be? Again, I don't have any reason yet to think I've contracted this awful plague but wanted to get informed. Link to comment
philbytx Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Hey Bill !!! The good news is that more bikes don't have FD problems than actually have them . I just change my FD fluid (75w90) at every 6k service....cruddy looking oil is one of the first signs and if you check it every 6k, IMHO, that's the sanest thing you can do. Ride and don't worry about it.....I have two R's and, thusly, could be double the trouble or, in my case, double the fun :grin: Some with problems will, hopefully, chime in. If you aren't a too handy wrench then you can trust your BMW dealer OR Anton can rebuild your unit for you....! Link to comment
Jerry Duke Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Generally speaking, failures seem to occur early in the bikes mileage life which leans towards a manufacturing problem. One of the best things to do is to check the rear wheel for play. There shouldn't be any movement. Grab the wheel at 12 and 6 and check for movement then grab the wheel at 3 and 9 and check. If you feel any movement first retorque the swingarm bearings. If they are snug, then I would seriously consider having someone like Anton Langadier (sp?) take it apart and make sure everything is in spec. By the time you see metal in the gear oil some damage might have already been done to the seal or bearings. Failure is too expensive to take a chance. Link to comment
Stan Walker Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 just change my FD fluid (75w90) at every 6k service....cruddy looking oil is one of the first signs and if you check it every 6k In my opinion this is probably just a waste of oil..... Chances are it can go from good to broken in far less than 6000 miles. My approach is to check for excess play at the final drive, leaking oil from the crown bearing seal, and any roughness when spiining the wheel. I do this weekly, along with several other checks (tire wear/damage/pressure, brake wear, and lighting). The final drive checking adds about 1 minute to my weekly routine. Frankly, in my opinion this problem is over rated. Most Oilhead bikes will never have it. For the few that do, it's not that expensive to fix. Stan Link to comment
waylap Posted January 5, 2009 Author Share Posted January 5, 2009 When you say roughness spinning the wheel, you mean on the center stand and in neutral right? Link to comment
11101110 Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 In my case I had cruddy oil before I had any play in my rear wheel. Anton rebuild mine. If you offered me a choice between a new FD and one rebuilt by Anton, I'll take the latter. Link to comment
lvnvbiker Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 The best thing about FD failures is that there are so many folks that get all freaked out about them that you can get relatively new BMW's for some really great prices... I check mine for wheel play a few times between services, change FD oil every 12K and ride thye hell out of it with out being the least bit concerned. IMHO the issue has been blown way out of proportion, I mean every single thing ever made will break at some time. My motto is ride it like you stole till it breaks, then fix it and repeat the cycle until you get a new one then start again. Link to comment
jfremder Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Left for our 48/10 ride with fresh F/D oil, what was drained looked perfect. 3k mi. later the crown bearing failed with no warning AND no discernible play before or after the failure. It sounded and felt like someone had refilled the F/D with kitty litter, but we were able to limp 50 mi. to the dealer in OKC with the seals still intact. We were on the road with a rebuilt F/D 2.5 hrs. later. Has anyone actually pre-diagnosed an impending failure? just change my FD fluid (75w90) at every 6k service....cruddy looking oil is one of the first signs and if you check it every 6k In my opinion this is probably just a waste of oil..... Chances are it can go from good to broken in far less than 6000 miles. My approach is to check for excess play at the final drive, leaking oil from the crown bearing seal, and any roughness when spiining the wheel. I do this weekly, along with several other checks (tire wear/damage/pressure, brake wear, and lighting). The final drive checking adds about 1 minute to my weekly routine. Frankly, in my opinion this problem is over rated. Most Oilhead bikes will never have it. For the few that do, it's not that expensive to fix. Stan Link to comment
Stan Walker Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 When you say roughness spinning the wheel, you mean on the center stand and in neutral right? Yes, spinning it by hand, and feeling both it and the bike frame for any 'un-smooth' areas. Stan Link to comment
smiller Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Has anyone actually pre-diagnosed an impending failure? Yes, by watching the drain plug magnet. I noticed a few flakes of metal that weren't there on previous changes, checked again in 6k miles and there were a few more (but the oil itself looked perfect both times.) Tore down the drive and found the crown bearing in a very early stage of failure (very slight spalling on the races.) Replaced the crown bearing, total cost about $120 in parts and no unscheduled downtime. It's really important to watch that drain plug. I'm not saying that a bearing couldn't implode and go from OK to total failure in a few thousand miles but that occurrence would be pretty rare and usually warning signs are present well in advance of a failure. For an observant home mechanic at least... if someone else does your maintenance for you then all bets are off because it's doubtful they will show a very keen eye for such things. Link to comment
ianboydsnr Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Has anyone actually pre-diagnosed an impending failure? Yes, by watching the drain plug magnet. I noticed a few flakes of metal that weren't there on previous changes, checked again in 6k miles and there were a few more (but the oil itself looked perfect both times.) Tore down the drive and found the crown bearing in a very early stage of failure (very slight spalling on the races.) Replaced the crown bearing, total cost about $120 in parts and no unscheduled downtime. It's really important to watch that drain plug. I'm not saying that a bearing couldn't implode and go from OK to total failure in a few thousand miles but that occurrence would be pretty rare and usually warning signs are present well in advance of a failure. For a observant home mechanic at least... if someone else does your maintenance for you then all bets are off because it's doubtful they will show a very keen eye for such things. Or using this guide on ukgser http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php?t=159180&highlight=crown+bearing And rebuild it using this video guide on ADVrider, its of a k1200, but the same none the less http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=399981 Link to comment
Ken H. Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 I've read up on the FD failures and it concerned me a little to have such a nice bike with a potential problem like this possibly looming in the future. Keep this in perspective, you’re reading about FD (and other) failures on repair forums. It’s easy to become paranoid from a venue where by nature only the bad is reported. Link to comment
Yeeha! Stephen Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 I've read up on the FD failures and it concerned me a little to have such a nice bike with a potential problem like this possibly looming in the future. Keep this in perspective, you’re reading about FD (and other) failures on repair forums. It’s easy to become paranoid from a venue where by nature only the bad is reported. 10-4 on that! If I judged my bike by the one Final Drive failure I had, I'd be worried all the time. But I'm not. That was the only serious problem I've had with my 1150 RT in 116,000 miles. And that happened at 53k. (still on the original clutch!) TIRES!! Are a much bigger expense to my pocket book. The Texas chip sealed roads make me change them almost every service interval. Yeeeeeeeeehaaaaaaaaa! Go for it... enjoy the Bike... and if you're the one to have a FD failure... write a great story about it... and become the center of attention. IMHO Link to comment
eddd Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 I've read up on the FD failures and it concerned me a little to have such a nice bike with a potential problem like this possibly looming in the future. Keep this in perspective, you’re reading about FD (and other) failures on repair forums. It’s easy to become paranoid from a venue where by nature only the bad is reported. This is so true. When diesel trucks are discussed, the Dodge Cummins is always touted as the absolute-best-run-for-a-million-miles-super-engine. A friend recently bought a '99, and I was helping him find a forum so he could address some problems he was having. I found cumminsforum.com and had to chuckle at the shear number of posts detailing all the problems with these trucks and the cummins. If everyone based buying decisions on those posts, Dodge would never sell any trucks. Link to comment
Lawman Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 "Dodge would never sell any trucks." That may be very true.............very soon...... Link to comment
waylap Posted January 6, 2009 Author Share Posted January 6, 2009 OK, I feel pretty confident now, no play at all in the rear wheel, no grinding, no kitty litter and no leaks. But now I'm wondering something else. The rear wheel only spins about another foot of rotation when you give it the "Price is Right" spin. Is that good or should it be spinning away for a while? Feels like the rear brake pads may have a slight friction on the disc or is this about right? Link to comment
T__ Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 waylap, you won’t get much “free spin” as you are back driving the final drive gears,, overcoming seal friction,, back driving the drive shaft & tran output shaft & gear oil drag.. You might also have some brake pad drag,, a little brake drag is normal a lot isn’t.. If you are worried about brake pad drag just pry the brake pads back away from the rotor a little & re-spin the wheel.. Twisty Link to comment
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