RID....1/2 Tank Bars @ Empty

[chadwick]

I was wondering if someone could give me a suggestion on what type of fix would be needed to correct my RID. The RID bars shows full tank at fill up ....then at 1/2 tank the gas light comes on and the tank is nearing empty. I bought the bike used last spring and I have been living with this...time to fix? I couldn't find any similar issues in previous posts...

 

Thanks.

[Stan Walker]

And the model of the bike is.........?

[boatzo]

And the model of the bike is.........?

 

If it is an R1100RT, the fuel sender tube is probably crushed due to a clogged charcoal canister. A long story and several fixes are indicated. !. Canisterectomy. 2. repair or replace the fuel sender.

 

Now, if it is a different model??? I can't comment.

 

Good luck,

 

[SageRider]

And the model of the bike is.........?

Assuming it is the bike listed in the OP's profile, it is an '02 R1150-RT

[Stan Walker]

Assuming it is the bike listed in the OP's profile, it is an '02 R1150-RT

 

My bad, should have looked there.......

 

Stan

[Boffin]

I was wondering if someone could give me a suggestion on what type of fix would be needed to correct my RID. The RID bars shows full tank at fill up ....then at 1/2 tank the gas light comes on and the tank is nearing empty. I bought the bike used last spring and I have been living with this...time to fix? I couldn't find any similar issues in previous posts...

 

Thanks.

 

The fuel guage and the low-fuel light have different floats, so to find out which problem you have we need to ask a question or two.

 

How much fuel does it take to fill the bike from the 'low-fuel' light? Or to out it another way, how many miles to the tank do you get? Your bike has a 6 gallon (US) tank, so if it only takes 3 gallons to fill, the low fuel-light float arm is probably bent.

 

If the bike takes about 5 gallons (about 220-240 miles to the tank) then the RID float tube is probably crushed. This is usually caused by the evaporative emissions cannister being pluged, causing a partial vaccum in the tank.

 

Here are a few threads on the problem and the fixes for it:

 

linky 1

 

linky 2

 

linky 3

 

Andy

[chadwick]

Andy, etal....sorry for the confusion on the question.

 

It sounds like Andy pointed me in the right direction as this is my situation....:

 

"If the bike takes about 5 gallons (about 220-240 miles to the tank) then the RID float tube is probably crushed. This is usually caused by the evaporative emissions cannister being pluged, causing a partial vaccum in the tank."

 

This sounds like the right fix... #1 Remove and/or replace the canister AND #2 Fix the crushed float tube.

 

[GordonB]

If you choose to replace the canister there is a solenoid valve on the opposite side of the seat (vacuum line runs to it from the can). It is most likely plugged up with bits of charcoal from the can and needs to be replaced as well. If you choose removal, plug the rubber hose that connects to the other side of the that valve (it runs to the throttle bodies) or vacuum leak will occur.

[chadwick]

If you choose to replace the canister there is a solenoid valve on the opposite side of the seat (vacuum line runs to it from the can). It is most likely plugged up with bits of charcoal from the can and needs to be replaced as well. If you choose removal, plug the rubber hose that connects to the other side of the that valve (it runs to the throttle bodies) or vacuum leak will occur.

 

 

Thanks everyone for all the great information....it sure has been excellent reading! I sure am gaining the confidence by being involved in this forum.

 

Tonight I dug into bike...and thought I'd check out the lines, canister and solenoid valve before removal. Everything appears to be open as I blow air thru the lines, the canister openings itself, air movement from throttle body to body, and lines from the tank. Except the solenoid itself?

 

Does the charcoal "rattle" in the canister to indicate its bad? I have no rattle?

 

As Gordon indicates the solenoid can be plugged with charcoal....air would not go thru this unit? Is this a sign of plugged?

 

Wow...sure is cold in Michigan....thought I'd check to see if these are bad before removing... then I'd examine the float tube.

 

Regards.

Chad

[T__]

Chad, that evap system purge solenoid only opens on a warm engine & above idle..

 

Quick indication of the evap system being non-functional is a wooshing or vacuum sound as you open the fuel fill cap after a ride.. If you have trouble opening the fuel fill cap or hear an air inrush when opening the fill cap you more than likely either have plugged evap canister,, or mis routed vacuum lines.. Even if the purge solonide is non functional that shouldn’t stop correct tank venting it will just stop the vapor purging from the evap can..

 

 

On your 2002RT not showing completely full either at fill up or slightly thereafter,, that is pretty normal on the 02 RT’s.. You can get the darn thing to show full but must fill the tank on the center stand then once full s-l-o-w-l-y work about another 1/8-¼ of a gallon of fuel into the tank with good fuel nozzle control.. It will take more fuel once it seems full as the filler neck extends down into the tank to create an air space on each side of the tank above the bottom of the filler neck..

If you force too much fuel into that tank above the bottom of the filler neck it can eventually ruin you vapor can by venting raw gasoline into the recovery can charcoal..

 

I won’t outright recommend removing your charcoal can & venting the tank directly to atmosphere but a lot of BMW riders do that without any problems.. If you decide to do that you will more than likely get some gasoline vapor smell if you park your hot motorcycle in your garage after filling in warm weather.. The factory vapor recovery can also helps remove moisture from fuel tank venting air during long moist storage periods (something you will see in Michigan unless stored in a heated garage that is never opened).. But there is a work around for that by just plugging the removed vapor can back into the tank vent line for winters storage (that is how I stored my BMW’s with removed vapor cans)..

 

If your low fuel light is way out of whack,, that is controlled by a separate float on the side of the fuel sender inside the fuel tank & that float can be easily bent or distorted at fuel filter change if not careful handling or inserting the sender unit..

 

Twisty

 

[Boffin]

 

I won’t outright recommend removing your charcoal can & venting the tank directly to atmosphere but a lot of BMW riders do that without any problems

 

Like every non-US market BMW rider. The evaporative vapour recovery system is only fitted for the US market as it allows BMW to sell the bike as a 50-state machine rather than have a special California model and thereby limiting their options on re-directing bikes to different dealers.

 

Andy

[chadwick]

Chad, that evap system purge solenoid only opens on a warm engine & above idle..

 

Quick indication of the evap system being non-functional is a wooshing or vacuum sound as you open the fuel fill cap after a ride.. If you have trouble opening the fuel fill cap or hear an air inrush when opening the fill cap you more than likely either have plugged evap canister,, or mis routed vacuum lines.. Even if the purge solonide is non functional that shouldn’t stop correct tank venting it will just stop the vapor purging from the evap can..

 

 

On your 2002RT not showing completely full either at fill up or slightly thereafter,, that is pretty normal on the 02 RT’s.. You can get the darn thing to show full but must fill the tank on the center stand then once full s-l-o-w-l-y work about another 1/8-¼ of a gallon of fuel into the tank with good fuel nozzle control.. It will take more fuel once it seems full as the filler neck extends down into the tank to create an air space on each side of the tank above the bottom of the filler neck..

If you force too much fuel into that tank above the bottom of the filler neck it can eventually ruin you vapor can by venting raw gasoline into the recovery can charcoal..

 

I won’t outright recommend removing your charcoal can & venting the tank directly to atmosphere but a lot of BMW riders do that without any problems.. If you decide to do that you will more than likely get some gasoline vapor smell if you park your hot motorcycle in your garage after filling in warm weather.. The factory vapor recovery can also helps remove moisture from fuel tank venting air during long moist storage periods (something you will see in Michigan unless stored in a heated garage that is never opened).. But there is a work around for that by just plugging the removed vapor can back into the tank vent line for winters storage (that is how I stored my BMW’s with removed vapor cans)..

 

If your low fuel light is way out of whack,, that is controlled by a separate float on the side of the fuel sender inside the fuel tank & that float can be easily bent or distorted at fuel filter change if not careful handling or inserting the sender unit..

 

Twisty

 

 

Twisty,

 

I know there is a problem with the evap system because I do get the wooshing/vacuum sound when opening the fuel fill cap after riding. Good trouble shoot by you and others on the forum! But....I was trying to make sense of the parts and see other "indicators" of parts failure..ie rattle, plug, stuck...

 

The RID works good at fill up...and the low fuel light indicator works good as comparing the mileage/tank.

 

I am going to dive into the float tube repair today so the guage can measure to an empty tank.

 

I always wondered why the fuel never overflowed the tank when topping it off...... and not understanding why it never hit the pavement below the bike...it went into the canister.

 

Thanks for the support.

[T__]

Chad, if you get the woosh at opening the tank filler cap then you either have a plugged evap can (you can test with a vacuum pump like a mi-ty vac or similar) or you have the tank vent line pinched or hooked up incorrectly.. Whether or not the purge solenoid is working shouldn’t keep the tank from venting correctly that just allows the vapor in the recovery can to enter the TBI’s at certain engine operating parameters..

 

In any case it might be time to just remove the evap can & hook the fuel tank vent line to the evap can atmosphere line that runs down behind the R/H foot peg..

 

On your (possibly) crushed fuel sender.. If you go to drilling holes & banging around in that tube be very careful as there are wires running down inside that tube & if you damage those you can ruin your sender unit..

 

Twisty

 

[boatzo]

 

Twisty,

 

I know there is a problem with the evap system because I do get the wooshing/vacuum sound when opening the fuel fill cap after riding. Good trouble shoot by you and others on the forum! But....I was trying to make sense of the parts and see other "indicators" of parts failure..ie rattle, plug, stuck...

 

The RID works good at fill up...and the low fuel light indicator works good as comparing the mileage/tank.

 

I am going to dive into the float tube repair today so the guage can measure to an empty tank.

 

I always wondered why the fuel never overflowed the tank when topping it off...... and not understanding why it never hit the pavement below the bike...it went into the canister.

 

Thanks for the support.

 

Chad,

 

If you are getting the inrush of air when you open the fuel fill, you definitely have problem as Twisty states. That is why your fuel level sender tube is probably crushed. You want to BE SURE THAT YOU CORRECT THE PROBLEM BEFORE YOU REPAIR THE SENDER TUBE OR IT WILL HAPPEN AGAIN.

 

On repairing the tube, I tried the drilling holes and tapping out the dents with out much success. I finally took the assembly apart, being very careful not to damage the guide wires. It was not as hard to do as it first looked. I then used a 1/2" drive socket and extension (can't remember the socket dia.) as a mandrel and slid it up the tube and hammered out the dents. There are all kinds of things you can use as a mandrel as some of the other guys have stated in previous threads on the subject.

 

Good luck with it.

[chadwick]

Thanks guys....I'm going to first fix the wooosh and tackle the sending tube.

 

Boatzo...great tip with the mandrel.