Pirates hi jacking ships

[Mark P]

Reported today http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/7791901.stm

 

It seems that the crew of this Chinese ship did at least prove that shouting "Go away!" doesn't deter pirates, but throwing beer bottles at them was apparently effective!

[Fugu]

throwing beer bottles at them was apparently effective!

 

Beer bottles? Petrol bombs....

[Matts_12GS]

Vulcan Phalanx is amazing...

 

Yepper, it's a hoot to watch and LtlJohn and I have been on deck watching the gun track up the cable to the tow plane.

 

Had there been better leadership in the White House the CIWS acronym would still be Close In Weapons system insted of "Christ, it won't shoot!!!" as the sailors on the USS Starke learned.

 

During my last period at sea on board USS Forrestal, I was assigned to a .50 cal mount for the purpose of repelling boarders. Had the Commander of the USS Cole been using his mounts, there'd be a few less martyrs and a few more living sailors.

 

Arming ships is a simple solution.

 

The Brits pulling out of Iraq might be a good source to randomly place a company of Marines and a couple RIB boats on board some freighters. Or, maybe these ships could run convoys like they did to avoid wolf packs of submarines?

[Gary in Aus]

 

Francois,

 

"Why doesn't the EC take this up as a goodwill gesture to the world in 2009?"

 

good response about the "EC" ,without any crystal ball gazing the EEC will take years to be a collective force and they seem to be more effective when they work individually, anyway.

 

 

 

"Why does the US have to take the lead in policing the world?"

 

"John, this may come as a surprise to you..... but that era has long gone already"

 

John, I wonder how many people still think that is the case , or if it ever was the case , is it something that mainly the US believed.

There are a few on this board who have been frequent travellers to and students of some of the major nations in Asia. One and a bit billion Indians and one and a bit billion Chinese plus quite a few hundred millions of others in Asia do not see this as the case .

 

The Dutch ,French and English over 4 or 5 centuries spread their influence and obtained substantial economic advantage from this influence , the US used economic imperialism for a while but this is fading rapidly , Coke , KFC , McDonalds still cling to signage and franchises but they are heading the way of IBM {used to be more IBM signs than temples once in Indonesia}, used to see lots of Chevrolet once but they are nearly all gone now.The US signs are being replaced with Indian , Chinese and Japanese { lot of Turkish influence too} They are getting closer to "feeding " themselves.

 

I think Asia is ,collectively, ready to manage and police itself now and is ready to fill the void left by the Europeans and now the US { mind you Japans invasion of China ,made things decidely dangerous for a while, read Joseph Needhams account, good read}

 

Africa is a whole different story , I think one of the BMWST members has spent some time in Africa on an aid programme , I spent a couple of months in Tanzania , Kenya , Zimbabwe and RSA as part of some aid projects and as the locals say when you hear about a tragedy / uprising / disaster " it's Africa , this is how it is"!!

 

It's a fascinating continent and I would love to spend more time there , Libya apparently is starting to open up to visitors.

 

Never been to Somalia but from reading and watching I would suggest pirates are the lowest thing on any Somalian agenda. Would be interesting to see where the millions of dollars end up , I would imagine the tens of millions of euros are transferred to a bank account in Europe or through a European financial institution not just dropped of to a village in Somalia in a bags with Euro signs on them.

[Matts_12GS]

Yeah, whatever...

I hope you don't call on the US when the rest of world leaves you in the lurch.

 

Again...

[Gary in Aus]

"Yeah, whatever...

I hope you don't call on the US when the rest of world leaves you in the lurch.

 

Again... "

 

Fairly deep.

 

Ah ,allies,allies,allies , can't live with them , can't live without them .

 

Like most history ,it depends who is writing the books.

 

I didn't realise that the US entered the 1914-1918 1St World War in 1917 because Australia was under threat , I thought it was because of things like the sinking of the Lusitania and the Zimmerman Telegram that US historians often quote as the reasons.

 

I also didn't realise that the US entered the 1939- 1945 Second World War in 1941 because Australia was under threat , I thought it was because the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbour that US historians often quote as the reason.

 

Reading histories from different countries provides different histories.

[Mark P]

Yeah, whatever...

I hope you don't call on the US when the rest of world leaves you in the lurch.

 

Again...

 

The rest of the World wouldn't ever leave Australia in the lurch!

 

Australia's friends like the UK and Canada wold always come to her aid as she has always come to ours. I can't prove it, because the situations never arisen, but my guess is that the one country that the British public would always want to support 110% if push came to shove would be Australia, as they are 'family'.

[Mark P]

throwing beer bottles at them was apparently effective!

 

Beer bottles? Petrol bombs....

 

My reference to Beer Bottles was tongue in cheek - but the broken glass seems to have given the pirates more problems than the Molotov cocktails themselves did!

[Mark P]

Mark , a question .

 

Other than knowing that they are expensive , potential ecological nightmares , I don't know much about super tankers or for example liquified natural gas tankers.

 

Would it be safe to assume that the last place you would want to be is on a supertanker with a bunch of doped up pirates firing grenade launchers or with a small step in technology "missiles" at you??

 

I am not sure but I think I read somewhere that they are more explosive when they are not full {vapours being being more explosive than relatively stable oil}.

 

I also remember reading a report about a cruise liner keeping the pirates at bay with water canons ??

 

When I was in Sumatra and in the mountains above Medan , you could look out into the Straits of Malacca {spelling} and it was amazing how many ships sailed through there , apparently a large percentage of world trade goes through there and there has been pirates there for the last thousand years and they regularly attack ships.

 

The Somalian pirates must be newsworthy and effecting a large corporation?

 

Gary, sorry I missed your question - yes I think I'd agree if you were crewing an Oil or LNG tanker, then you'd want to avoid a bunch of pirates using RPGs or worse against you.

 

There's an obcvious huge risk of fire and explosion and also enormous potential for ecological disaster with a holed hull - apart from the value of the ship, cargo and lives on board.

 

The same old same old applies it seems, Somali piracy is attracting the attention it is where piracy elsewhere goes largely unreported around the world because there are more vital wester economic/political interests at stake.

[Agent_Orange]

"But even all these operations have to be conducted within international law, defined in this case as the provisions of the UN Law of the Sea Convention."

 

 

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7735144.stm

[Pilgrim]

This problem can be solved without a great deal of technical trouble. The tough part is international will.

 

There are two approaches. The first is based on the idea that pirates are a disturbance in civilized tranquility and should be dealt with forcefully by governments on that basis. The economics of trade and shipping are not an issue; it's done because it should be done. In that case, the approach should be to get rid of it root and branch. Do it quickly in the Gulf of Aden or pirates in the Straits of Malacca or the approaches to the Panama Canal may take the lesson to heart.

 

There is a definable danger zone, one where "opposing forces" concentrate. Even if they operate far off shore, they start and return here.

 

Modern technology and equipment, while expensive, is perfectly capable of observing and tracking every moving object in the whole affected area (and more, but it's unnecessary). I say this based on my knowledge of what's going on to deal with drug smuggling across the Caribbean. Nothing moves down there that we don't track.

 

Taking as an example fisheries enforcement, it is not outrageous to expect that an armed fleet, directed by overhead observation, can cruise through the affected zone having a look at anything suspicious. The reach of any patrol vessel is extended by its helicopters.

 

Pirate vessels have identifiable characteristics, most particularly a crew out of proportion to the size and type of vessel. So go have a look; board them if necessary. If they resist, kill them on the spot.

 

The other approach is case by case. Loss of a ship and cargo is a big deal to owners and insurers, to say nothing of the death and injury of crews and passengers.

 

The best approach there is for each vessel to protect itself, with the cost of that protection being a cost of business. IMHO, the best way to do that is to hire professional gunmen to travel on each vessel that has a cargo worth paying for protection over. Take Blackwater for example (since they have expressed an interest in exactly this type of op). They could put armed, highly trained guards on each vessel, or better yet, escort each vessel with one of their own equipped to deal with pirates.

 

The problem of armed vessels entering some ports is a real one, but certainly not insuperable; there are several possibilities.

 

Let the guards and their guns off the guarded vessel onto a Blackwater mother ship while still on the high seas in a safer zone.

 

Or if there's a Blackwater escort vessel, it turns around outside national waters, perhaps even taking on a job going the other way.

 

There is no doubt that a home port for Blackwater could be leased in the area somewhere, so establishing a base of operations is business proposition and no more.

 

Pilgrim

 

 

 

[lawnchairboy]

"I think Asia is ,collectively, ready to manage and police itself now and is ready to fill the void left by the Europeans and now the US { mind you Japans invasion of China ,made things decidely dangerous for a while, read Joseph Needhams account, good read}"

 

I disagree. I do not think that "Asia" is "collectively" ready to do anything. I believe there are parts of Asia that are ready to "manage and police itself".. and many other parts that are not and are not models of economic/social/political stability. I have traveled in many countries regionally from Northern Japan to southern New Zealand and from California all the way to the Gulf of Thailand. Indonesia, Thailand, Malaysia, and the Philippines are pretty well populated and each has its own fair share of turmoil in my opinion.

 

regards

chris

 

 

[Gary in Aus]

Chris ,

I agree with you that many "parts that are not and are not models of economic/social/political stability" yet I am sure the ASEAN leaders are willing to work through this .

 

The ASEAN ATP has agreed that self determination particularly in economic and political aspects is one of their priorities.

 

ASEAN in adding the APT has substantially moved forward the arrival of these events.

 

My personal opinion is current GFC will assist in their desire to control themselves and having Japan ,China and ROK on board has brought some big players into the game.

 

I have only spent minimal time in the Philipines {week in Manilla and a couple of weeks in San Juan in South Leyte } dealing with regional and local government and they were very committed to ending US involvement. The hardest thing for them was to refuse the amount of equipment and hardware offered by the US to allow the US to stay and as with most levels of government money usually talks .

 

The relationships I saw established were ones that could be sold to the highest bidder not established on noblesse oblige.

 

I find it interesting to be a part of this asian world and watch it unfold , Aus and NZ are watchers to the side and while we try to be involved {we have just lent Indonesia another billion in aid to help them over the GFC} we will always be that little part of Europe in Asia , never exactly fitting in or part of the team.

[Gary in Aus]

Quote "The tough part is international will."

 

I made reference in a previous post about being in the mountains behind Medan in north western Sumatra and watching the ships sailing through the Straits of Malacca. It was like watching a documentary about the shipping convoys in the Second World War , the ships ,large and small , just never stopped and there always seemed to be at least 40 or 50 always in your view.

 

I have since seen figures that suggest that nearly 70 percent of the worlds shipping travels through this area.

 

Back to the original quote about international will , a good starting point would be national will, we were picking up some vehicles to drive back to Bandah Aceh and we of course had a military escort because of the GAM . The captain in charge of our escort suggeste dthat the Indonesian navy was one of the biggest profit makers from the pirates.

 

I have no proof that this is the case but from my other dealings with the Indonesian military , I would be happy to be surprised.

[Boone60]

I don't understand why the bankers allow ransom money to go to accounts that can't be traced to an owner.

[Ken H.]

I have to say, I’ve learned a lot in this thread. It’s clearly far more complicated of an issue than I had thought about.

 

Thanks everyone!

 

[Mark P]

I don't understand why the bankers allow ransom money to go to accounts that can't be traced to an owner.

 

Accoring to this they don't make payments to banks http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/7752813.stm