Trooper tickets couple on way to hospital delivery

[tallman]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp=28069230

 

After 2 Mass. Troppers let them pass stop and go traffic in the breakdown lane, a 3rd stopped them, made them wait, prove she was pregnant and then gave them a ticket.

Husband/Dad calmer than I might have been...

[BFish]

all's well that ends well.

[AZKomet]

My question is that if delivery was eminent why not call the medics?

 

But this goes back to the letter of the law of the spirit of the law theories.......

 

About 3 years ago there was a couple doing 95 in the 55 on a Phx highway. Upon my T stop the husband said: "My wife is having her baby and we are on our way to the hospital, we can't wait for a ticket, she has to go now." I said that i was a medic and would deliver the baby on the side of the road if the impending birth was that close. I began asking about contraction times and related questions concerning a certain birth.

 

When the couple was asked to have her explain the questions and I was calling the medics but would deliver the child if the medics were not on time the couple was speechless. So needless to say...a criminal cite was issued and they drove off slowly in the opposite direction of a hospital. Bottom line is sometimes people LIE!!!!!

[Paul Mihalka]

OTOH a couple of years back I was caught on the bike in a unexpected ice rain. I was on a interstate and kept riding very slowly (+/- 15mph) on the shoulder where all the trash gives a bit better traction. Three cars spun out after passing me but stayed on the road. After a few miles there was the stopped traffic because of the unevitable accident. Long line, no end in sight, ice rain still coming down. I kept riding on the shoulder. Got to the accident site, with the trooper right next to the shoulder. Oh hell he already saw me so I kept going. When I pass him at may be 5mph he says quietly "now be careful"

[AZKomet]

OTOH a couple of years back I was caught on the bike in a unexpected ice rain. I was on a interstate and kept riding very slowly (+/- 15mph) on the shoulder where all the trash gives a bit better traction. Three cars spun out after passing me but stayed on the road. After a few miles there was the stopped traffic because of the unevitable accident. Long line, no end in sight, ice rain still coming down. I kept riding on the shoulder. Got to the accident site, with the trooper right next to the shoulder. Oh hell he already saw me so I kept going. When I pass him at may be 5mph he says quietly "now be careful"

 

 

Yep....the spirit of the law, not the letter of the law at work here.

[bakerzdosen]

Unfortunately, the trooper will never be adequately punished.

[fatboyjim]

Two sides to a story & we're only gettng one. If she was in labour she should have been in a big white van with paramedics drivng it.

 

What really makes me laugh, is that people pay more attention to the enforcement of laws than abiding by them.

 

 

 

[drzep]

IMO that's crap.

 

If anything, the 1st trooper should have escorted them, in the breakdown lane, to Mt. Auburn. Any healthy, expecting mother can have complications in the time around and during delivery. If she started to hemorrhage while the LOE made them wait (and prove she was prego!!! are you kidding me?), the news headlines would have been much more tragic.

 

And waiting for a medic also makes little sense. The fastest way to the ED was the way they were pursuing until getting stopped. I think that prego couples should be given just a touch of flexibility.

 

As an aside, I recall driving my parents and younger brother to a hospital in NC doing about 90-100 on I-85 while my bros head was split open. We came up on a state trooper, he saw my brothers head (sitting on mom's lap in front) and waved us on. If we waited for a medic, I can't bear to imagine what the outcome would have been.

[russell_bynum]

Two sides to a story & we're only gettng one. If she was in labour she should have been in a big white van with paramedics drivng it.

 

What really makes me laugh, is that people pay more attention to the enforcement of laws than abiding by them.

 

 

 

There's very rarely any reason for an ambulance ride to the hospital as long as the labor is progressing normally and is in the early stages. An ambulance ride would just be a waste of resources and money.

 

We don't know the details of this story. I could certainly see people lying about rushing to the hospital in labor to get out of a ticket. I could also see leaving home and heading to the hospital while things were progressing slowly, and then having things kick into high gear while you're stuck in traffic.

 

Not knowing what SOP is (or if there is SOP in cases like this), I'd go with drzep...the best case would have been if the first trooper escorted the couple.

 

 

[AZKomet]

IMO that's crap.

 

If anything, the 1st trooper should have escorted them, in the breakdown lane, to Mt. Auburn. Any healthy, expecting mother can have complications in the time around and during delivery. If she started to hemorrhage while the LOE made them wait (and prove she was prego!!! are you kidding me?), the news headlines would have been much more tragic.

 

And waiting for a medic also makes little sense. The fastest way to the ED was the way they were pursuing until getting stopped. I think that prego couples should be given just a touch of flexibility.

 

As an aside, I recall driving my parents and younger brother to a hospital in NC doing about 90-100 on I-85 while my bros head was split open. We came up on a state trooper, he saw my brothers head (sitting on mom's lap in front) and waved us on. If we waited for a medic, I can't bear to imagine what the outcome would have been.

 

 

So are you advocating that people who are in need of medical care ignore proven guidelines and drive themselves to the hospital? And FYI most LEO agencies have strict policies forbidding medical escorts. I am sure that if you checked the trooper's dept. policy you will find that there is a mandate strictly forbidding medical escorts.

 

So if the person is having an MI or other cardiac event they too should get a police escort to the hospital by a LEO? I have been involved in pre-hospital medicine for many years. I have a masters in forensic medicine as well. I can tell you that this is bad advice.

[stubble!]

There's very rarely any reason for an ambulance ride to the hospital as long as the labor is progressing normally and is in the early stages. An ambulance ride would just be a waste of resources and money.

 

We don't know the details of this story. I could certainly see people lying about rushing to the hospital in labor to get out of a ticket. I could also see leaving home and heading to the hospital while things were progressing slowly, and then having things kick into high gear while you're stuck in traffic.

 

I'm here to tell ya. Things picked up in a hurry for us. We'd been timing slow contractions for about 45 minutes, gathering our things, and left for the 20 mile drive to the hospital. As we drove, things changed, it was ON, like someone threw a switch. I broke the speed limit by a comfortable margin. Our son was here less than 20 minutes after parking the car at the hospital. Fortunately we didn't run into the LEO in the above incident!

 

[drzep]

Well Dave, I thank you for your many years of service.

 

First of all, this is about labor and delivery, not general medical emergencies. As a physician I do care about medical care and the prompt delivery of treatment. It's my life. What I am advocating is for people to continue what they have doing for decades: when labor begins, drive to the hospital. Period. Unless there are peripartum complications, which the future parents often know about in advance, calling and waiting on an ambulance is a waste of time and money. Labor usually (not always) proceeds slowly (which I assume you know) and an ambulance and paramedics would not be a good use of resources. It's like calling lifestar for a cirrhotic with SPB - weight the pros and cons and pic the most cost effective means to provide the standard of care.

 

Would I advise that for an MI? Come on man. What do think? There is more than a subtle difference between someone with ACS or developing tamponade and a women in labor. Labor is expected - cardiac events and other medical emergencies are not.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[upflying]

Here is how I would have handled this stop.

Driver; "My wife is in labor and we are headed to the hospital"

Me; "Do you want me to call an ambulance"?

Driver; "no"

Me; citation issued

or

Driver; "yes, call an ambulance"

Me; no citation issued

 

The driver is sour grapes, whining to the media. Take it to court, new daddy.

[Dave McReynolds]

Here is how I would have handled this stop.

Driver; "My wife is in labor and we are headed to the hospital"

Me; "Do you want me to call an ambulance"?

Driver; "no"

Me; citation issued

or

Driver; "yes, call an ambulance"

Me; no citation issued

 

The driver is sour grapes, whining to the media. Take it to court, new daddy.

 

And what about the two state troupers who had already waved them on in the breakdown lane? Do you think it would be worth checking with them first before you issued the ticket?

[AZKomet]

Just asking a question. Pregs can be a dangerous event as well. ANd you know all of the complications that can happen, so with that I can digress and just wanted to get things straight. I have seen some crazy things in the years of pre-hospital treatment.

 

 

 

[Skywagon]

Well I would say the couple and the troopers are very lucky all ended well. ("I have a masters in forensic medicine as well. I can tell you that this is bad advice").

 

I hold a Doctor of Jurisprudence, and if there had been an avoidable health incident and as a result of the troopers delaying an apparent emergency, something bad happened, a civil suit to follow would be staggering with a jury...

 

I think I have mentioned on this board before, I have never had a ticket of any kind, not even a parking ticket. I have a great admiration for law enforcement officers. I have defended many officers over the years, but I will tell you if there had been a medical problem, infection, death, etc.....there aren't enough lawyers on the planet to defend the officer.

 

Just my .02 after 35 years in the business...

[drzep]

The driver is sour grapes, whining to the media. Take it to court, new daddy.

Interesting take on it.

 

...if there had been a medical problem, infection, death, etc.....there aren't enough lawyers on the planet to defend the officer.

Couldn't agree more. Time is critical. At 4 miles out from the hospital, waiting for an ambulance is not prudent nor helpful.

[AZKomet]

Well I would say the couple and the troopers are very lucky all ended well. ("I have a masters in forensic medicine as well. I can tell you that this is bad advice").

 

I hold a Doctor of Jurisprudence, and if there had been an avoidable health incident and as a result of the troopers delaying an apparent emergency, something bad happened, a civil suit to follow would be staggering with a jury...

 

I think I have mentioned on this board before, I have never had a ticket of any kind, not even a parking ticket. I have a great admiration for law enforcement officers. I have defended many officers over the years, but I will tell you if there had been a medical problem, infection, death, etc.....there aren't enough lawyers on the planet to defend the officer.

 

Just my .02 after 35 years in the business...

 

 

Well my friend I have been sued twice in my career. Once for 7.5 million yes, MILLION and once for 300K....those are the ones that WENT to trial. I was vindicated by the jury in both cases, the first in 11 min and the 2nd in 19 min. As an attorney or JD degree holder you should know it is impossible to tell what a jury will do in any given case.

 

Subsequent harm or degree of harm is key as you know. It is VERY difficult to sue and win against an LEO due to the legal protections for them in place by state and federal laws. I'm sure I do not have to quote those to you.

 

So before you make those assertions about LEO liability.......

[fatboyjim]

Here is how I would have handled this stop.

Driver; "My wife is in labor and we are headed to the hospital"

Me; "Do you want me to call an ambulance"?

Driver; "no"

Me; citation issued

or

Driver; "yes, call an ambulance"

Me; no citation issued

 

The driver is sour grapes, whining to the media. Take it to court, new daddy.

 

And what about the two state troupers who had already waved them on in the breakdown lane? Do you think it would be worth checking with them first before you issued the ticket?

 

Perhaps he did and no one answered. We don't know for sure as they only statement made by the state police was if he makes an formal complaint we'll look into it. Intimating that at the time of the video being released they hadn't

, nor was it reported that they had. Now it appears to me they are intelligent enough to realise that IF they other troopers exist and they did indeed wave them through that they wouldn't have to go to the press or wait 'till court to get the tickect boshed.

 

More to it than we're getting, but why let the truth stand in the way of a good story.

[Dave McReynolds]

Now it appears to me they are intelligent enough to realise that IF they other troopers exist and they did indeed wave them through that they wouldn't have to go to the press or wait 'till court to get the tickect boshed.

 

OTOH, do you think they are dumb enough to go to the press with the story of being waived through by two other troopers, knowing that there are people who like to poke holes in these things who would like nothing better than to show that the two other troopers didn't exist?

 

If I were in their shoes, I don't think I would feel satisfied with losing a day's pay to go to court just to get my $100 ticket thrown out. Nor would I feel very good about filing a complaint with the police dept that I would probably never hear the results of. If I were sure of my facts, I might rather go to the press where I might be able to actually influence future behavior.

 

Some earlier posts have gone so far as to suggest that people will try this when they aren't really pregnant or aren't so far into labor as to need to worry about it. Be that as it may, that was clearly not the case here, so why doubt the rest of their story?

[Bud]

I have noticed a trend here and elsewhere lately.

 

And a couple of days ago, a friend of mine gave me a quote that directly addressed the trend.

 

"When a finger is pointed at at problem, most people will go to great lengths to analyze the finger."

 

It fits this thread exactly.

[SageRider]

I have noticed a trend here and elsewhere lately.

 

And a couple of days ago, a friend of mine gave me a quote that directly addressed the trend.

 

"When a finger is pointed at at problem, most people will go to great lengths to analyze the finger."

 

It fits this thread exactly.

Which finger are we talking about here???

[CraigC]

 

After 2 Mass. Troppers let them pass stop and go traffic in the breakdown lane, a 3rd stopped them, made them wait, prove she was pregnant and then gave them a ticket.

Husband/Dad calmer than I might have been...

 

Under the circumstances, using the break down lane to briskly by pass heavy traffic seems a reasonable excuse ...at least two out of three troopers concurred. Required reading: Death of Common Sense-How Law is Suffocating America.

[motorman587]

Here is how I would have handled this stop.

Driver; "My wife is in labor and we are headed to the hospital"

Me; "Do you want me to call an ambulance"?

Driver; "no"

Me; citation issued

or

Driver; "yes, call an ambulance"

Me; no citation issued

 

The driver is sour grapes, whining to the media. Take it to court, new daddy.

 

Ditto, and noboby would believe what we hear for the resons for speeding. It is hard to weed out the real ones for the fake ones.

[russell_bynum]

Here is how I would have handled this stop.

Driver; "My wife is in labor and we are headed to the hospital"

Me; "Do you want me to call an ambulance"?

Driver; "no"

Me; citation issued

or

Driver; "yes, call an ambulance"

Me; no citation issued

 

The driver is sour grapes, whining to the media. Take it to court, new daddy.

 

Ditto, and noboby would believe what we hear for the resons for speeding. It is hard to weed out the real ones for the fake ones.

 

The clue in this case that might help weed out the real ones for the fake ones would be the woman in the passenger seat with the very large bulge in her abdomen.

 

 

 

[Heck]

I have noticed a trend here and elsewhere lately.

 

And a couple of days ago, a friend of mine gave me a quote that directly addressed the trend.

 

"When a finger is pointed at at problem, most people will go to great lengths to analyze the finger."

 

It fits this thread exactly.

Which finger are we talking about here???

 

I would guess that it is the one that actually needs the least analysis......

[DaveTheAffable]

 

The clue in this case that might help weed out the real ones for the fake ones would be the woman in the passenger seat with the very large bulge in her abdomen.

 

 

 

 

Well... my wifes abdomen was "huge" for the last two months before she delivered.

 

(Don't tell her I said so)

[tallman]

Having worked in a hospital, and an ER, if a woman is having contractions 3 minutes apart (as in this case) it is pretty easy to determine they aren't BSing...

 

When I was about 7 I had an accident and was bleeding profusely.

Bleeding continued after wrapping and we headed to hosptial at high rate of speed.

Motorcycle cop pulled us over, took one look at me, told my uncle to "follow me" and cranked up lights on the bike and led us to the hospital.

[motoguy128]

Having worked in a hospital, and an ER, if a woman is having contractions 3 minutes apart (as in this case) it is pretty easy to determine they aren't BSing...

 

When I was about 7 I had an accident and was bleeding profusely.

Bleeding continued after wrapping and we headed to hosptial at high rate of speed.

Motorcycle cop pulled us over, took one look at me, told my uncle to "follow me" and cranked up lights on the bike and led us to the hospital.

 

That would be a good way to handle it. If they get to the hospital and don't admit the wife into the ER, then you could tecket them then... for more serious charges. Waiting 5-10 minutes for an ambulance to arrive when a woman is in labor doesn't make sense. Nor does waiting in traffic. I figure the officer could have issued them a verbal warning and taken their plate number and basic information. Then call the hospital later to see if she was admitted.

 

Then again... given the traffic situation, the couple might have been better off just calling and ambulance and waiting for it from home.

 

 

[Dave McReynolds]

Then again... given the traffic situation, the couple might have been better off just calling an ambulance and waiting for it from home.

 

Given the number of births in the average hospital per day (5-10?), that most of the mothers arrive in cars, and that they're told not to come to the hospital until their contractions are closer than X minutes apart so they don't arrive at the hospital until they really need to be there, do you really think it is a good use of our resources to shift that over to ambulances? How about we just give them a hand getting there when they need a little help?

[russell_bynum]

Then again... given the traffic situation, the couple might have been better off just calling an ambulance and waiting for it from home.

 

Given the number of births in the average hospital per day (5-10?), that most of the mothers arrive in cars, and that they're told not to come to the hospital until their contractions are closer than X minutes apart so they don't arrive at the hospital until they really need to be there, do you really think it is a good use of our resources to shift that over to ambulances? How about we just give them a hand getting there when they need a little help?

 

There you go again using logic and facts.

 

 

 

[DaveTheAffable]

Given the number of births in the average hospital per day (5-10?), that most of the mothers arrive in cars, and that they're told not to come to the hospital until their contractions are closer than X minutes apart so they don't arrive at the hospital until they really need to be there, do you really think it is a good use of our resources to shift that over to ambulances? How about we just give them a hand getting there when they need a little help?

 

LEO's... Not too many occupations get as much armchair quarterbacking as them.

 

Many agencies (I don't know if all) have a very strict policy on "Escorting". A Public Safety Officer has lights and siren. The following vehicle does not. That's why there are laws prohibiting you from "following an emergency response vehicle".

 

It happens with great frequency that a vehicle will try to follow a police or fire vehicle to kind of tag along and get ahead of the rest of the traffic. And sure enough, after the emergency vehicle passes through an intersection, the following vehicle gets slammed into by another driver. That's why in a funeral procession, or a motorcade, there should be an officer stopped at each intersection.

 

In our incident described here in the thread, we'd potentially have three dead people in a car, instead of a woman having a baby on the side of the road.

 

These nice people are irritated because they were stopped 3 times. Maybe the first LEO made the wrong decision when he told them it was ok?

 

I'm not saying the third officer, in these circumstances, made the "best" decision, or the one that you or I would have made. But just like any other ticket, these nice folks can go to court, make their case, and the judge will decide.

 

None of us were there.

 

I wish them well with the new baby!

 

 

[russell_bynum]

Given the number of births in the average hospital per day (5-10?), that most of the mothers arrive in cars, and that they're told not to come to the hospital until their contractions are closer than X minutes apart so they don't arrive at the hospital until they really need to be there, do you really think it is a good use of our resources to shift that over to ambulances? How about we just give them a hand getting there when they need a little help?

 

LEO's... Not too many occupations get as much armchair quarterbacking as them.

 

Many agencies (I don't know if all) have a very strict policy on "Escorting". A Public Safety Officer has lights and siren. The following vehicle does not. That's why there are laws prohibiting you from "following an emergency response vehicle".

 

It happens with great frequency that a vehicle will try to follow a police or fire vehicle to kind of tag along and get ahead of the rest of the traffic. And sure enough, after the emergency vehicle passes through an intersection, the following vehicle gets slammed into by another driver. That's why in a funeral procession, or a motorcade, there should be an officer stopped at each intersection.

 

In our incident described here in the thread, we'd potentially have three dead people in a car, instead of a woman having a baby on the side of the road.

 

These nice people are irritated because they were stopped 3 times. Maybe the first LEO made the wrong decision when he told them it was ok?

 

I'm not saying the third officer, in these circumstances, made the "best" decision, or the one that you or I would have made. But just like any other ticket, these nice folks can go to court, make their case, and the judge will decide.

 

None of us were there.

 

I wish them well with the new baby!

 

 

Yeah, depending on the traffic conditions, I could see a one-man escort getting ugly.

 

I'm wondering...would it be any better if the escorting officer didn't run lights and siren the whole time? I've seen cops just hit the siren for a second or two to get a car that's in their way to move over. Again, I don't know what's SOP, but I've definitely seen it done that way.

 

At any rate, I think the 3rd trooper didn't make the best decision, but in the couple's shoes, I'd just take the ticket, fight it in court, and be done with it. When it became clear that the officer was going to write the ticket, I would have probably asked if he'd be willing to follow me to the hospital (only 4 miles away) and give me the ticket there as soon as my wife had been admitted. I doubt it would make any difference, but I would give it a try.

[DaveTheAffable]

I've seen cops just hit the siren for a second or two to get a car that's in their way to move over. Again, I don't know what's SOP, but I've definitely seen it done that way.

 

You may think it's nuts... but THAT is a violation of policy, and can get you days off without pay (Doesn't mean guys don't do it). No "Emergency", no siren is to be used.

 

The general public has no idea how many policies, restrictions, guidelines, the LEO's are expected to remember and obey. All while listening to the radio, watching for bad guys, watching for traffic, etc. It tends to be overwhelming. That's not meant as a complaint, just information.

 

Many years ago, at the California Highway Patrol Academy, they stressed not throwing your empty shell casings on the ground when at the shooting range. Some cadets were yelled at, or disciplined, for this act of wastefulness. After all, we want to be able to recycle and reload those brass cartridges.

 

Then came the famous "Saugus-Newhall" shooting. A gunfight with bad guys involving CHP Officers. A fairly new officer needed to reload his revolver. Witnesses say he emptied the spent casings into the palm of his hand, and instead of reloading, began to "look around for the can" to put the casings in. (edit-On recall, I think he ended up putting them in his pants pocket)He was shot and killed in those moments.

 

The policy was changed.

 

 

 

I am not looking for us all to give a hug and kiss to our LEO's (although that would be nice ). I don't think this thread has the tone of LEO bashing at all. I feel sorry for the stress the family went through, and hopefully that department will come up with some insight as to how their agency will handle a similar situation in the future.

[russell_bynum]

 

You may think it's nuts... but THAT is a violation of policy, and can get you days off without pay (Doesn't mean guys don't do it). No "Emergency", no siren is to be used.

 

Yeah, that sounds like a typical dumbass law. Doesn't surprise me at all.

 

Many years ago, at the California Highway Patrol Academy, they stressed not throwing your empty shell casings on the ground when at the shooting range. Some cadets were yelled at, or disciplined, for this act of wastefulness. After all, we want to be able to recycle and reload those brass cartridges.

 

Then came the famous "Saugus-Newhall" shooting. A gunfight with bad guys involving CHP Officers. A fairly new officer needed to reload his revolver. Witnesses say he emptied the spent casings into the palm of his hand, and instead of reloading, began to "look around for the can" to put the casings in. (edit-On recall, I think he ended up putting them in his pants pocket)He was shot and killed in those moments.

 

The policy was changed.

 

My memory says it was his shirt pocket, but yeah...a classic example of a dumb policy.

 

 

I am not looking for us all to give a hug and kiss to our LEO's (although that would be nice ). I don't think this thread has the tone of LEO bashing at all. I feel sorry for the stress the family went through, and hopefully that department will come up with some insight as to how their agency will handle a similar situation in the future.

 

Sounds good to me.

[motorman587]

Here is how I would have handled this stop.

Driver; "My wife is in labor and we are headed to the hospital"

Me; "Do you want me to call an ambulance"?

Driver; "no"

Me; citation issued

or

Driver; "yes, call an ambulance"

Me; no citation issued

 

The driver is sour grapes, whining to the media. Take it to court, new daddy.

 

Ditto, and noboby would believe what we hear for the resons for speeding. It is hard to weed out the real ones for the fake ones.

 

The clue in this case that might help weed out the real ones for the fake ones would be the woman in the passenger seat with the very large bulge in her abdomen.

 

 

 

No shit, but "do you need an ambulance?" would solve the problem. Had a lady faint while issuing a ticket. Called EMTs fire etc.............EMTs stated nothing was wrong, she refused a ride in the ambulance, so sometimes the excuse is not that noticeable.

[russell_bynum]

No shit, but "do you need an ambulance?" would solve the problem. Had a lady faint while issuing a ticket. Called EMTs fire etc.............EMTs stated nothing was wrong, she refused a ride in the ambulance, so sometimes the excuse is not that noticeable.

 

I know, John...I was just pullin' yer leg. (Hence the winky emoticon.)

 

 

[motorman587]

[upflying]

Thanks for the backup Motorman. We cops have a saying,

"Don't believe anything you hear and only half of what you see".

These words apply perfectly in this situation.

 

[drzep]

We have a saying in medicine too that applies well here:

 

If it has wings, a long beak, webbed feet, and quacks, then its a duck.

[Agent_Orange]

We in fire/rescue also have a saying.

 

IV, O2, and transport.

 

 

Those who were 'burnt', out that is, had one.................takin' lives, and savin' names.

 

Don't forget the HIPAA, every pt. gets both pages and signs.

[fatboyjim]

You diagnosis was poor and you have now been sued after another medical profressional' 2nd opinion (which they came to only after fully researching and getting all of the facts) stated,

 

"In this case it was an Albatross on her way to a fancy dress party with a keg hidden up the front of her feathers."

 

 

[R80RTKen]

Couldnt the trooper have just issued a warning and told them to slow down?

 

 

[drzep]

"In this case it was an Albatross on her way to a fancy dress party with a keg hidden up the front of her feathers."

 

Clinical intuition.

 

But of course, you are completely right - any patient in any setting could have the unexpected, but if you practice medicine thinking everyone has something out of the ordinary then you won't have a job very long (in the US at least). Not to mention the costs of care will be even more outrageous than they are now.

 

For example, last year alone in the state of Massachusetts it was estimated that the costs of ordering unneeded tests and hospital admissions solely out of fear of litigation cost 1.4 billion dollars. Thats one calendar year in one state. Is that how you would like us to practice medicine?

 

You can spend your life looking for Red Herons or you can practice medicine according to the accepted standards of care. I'll choose the latter.

[fatboyjim]

The point that I was making (which I think you got) was that it is easy to sit back after all that has happened with half the story and come to a conclusion that may be right 50% of the time. The couple have been invited by to make an official complaint and at the time of reporting they had not taken it up.

 

It was posted that they probably wouldn't hear anything back from the complaint and by going to the press will get a better result.

 

Perhaps that better result is useful when you really do not have a valid defence to rely on. We still do not know for sure if the other two troopers exist/encountered that couple. Or If they were warned not to drive along the breakdown lane by those troopers and that is why the driver was tickted.

 

We don't know, because it is sub-judice, until he goes to court you won'ty know all of the facts.

 

A lot of assuptions are being made mainly by the 'boo to the police brigade'.

 

As for likening this to adminstering unecessary tests that cost $$$$ for fear of litigation. The two are not comparable.

 

One is reasonable questioning to establish facts "are you pregnant or is that a cushion/quantity of drugs/WMD you have stuffed up your jacket?"

The other is a$$ covering just in case you get it wrong.

 

P.S I have a colleague who had her nose a broken after she assumed she was dealing with a pregnant female and asked for a Police Dr to attend to determine fitness for detention.

 

Turned out she wasn't a "duck" she was a ex-kickboxer with a big belly and a mean right cross.

 

Jim

[AZKomet]

The point that I was making (which I think you got) was that it is easy to sit back after all that has happened with half the story and come to a conclusion that may be right 50% of the time. The couple have been invited by to make an official complaint and at the time of reporting they had not taken it up.

 

It was posted that they probably wouldn't hear anything back from the complaint and by going to the press will get a better result.

 

Perhaps that better result is useful when you really do not have a valid defence to rely on. We still do not know for sure if the other two troopers exist/encountered that couple. Or If they were warned not to drive along the breakdown lane by those troopers and that is why the driver was tickted.

 

We don't know, because it is sub-judice, until he goes to court you won'ty know all of the facts.

 

A lot of assuptions are being made mainly by the 'boo to the police brigade'.

 

As for likening this to adminstering unecessary tests that cost $$$$ for fear of litigation. The two are not comparable.

 

One is reasonable questioning to establish facts "are you pregnant or is that a cushion/quantity of drugs/WMD you have stuffed up your jacket?"

The other is a$$ covering just in case you get it wrong.

 

P.S I have a colleague who had her nose a broken after she assumed she was dealing with a pregnant female and asked for a Police Dr to attend to determine fitness for detention.

 

Turned out she wasn't a "duck" she was a ex-kickboxer with a big belly and a mean right cross.

 

Jim

 

 

Several years ago an officer of mine booked a man for reckless driving while going to see his daughter in the ER after an MVA. He complained about it while being booked into the can. I happened to over hear the matter and the officer told me that the guy was a raving maniac and driving like such which is why he was in jail at the moment.

 

I ordered him CLD'd (which is cited in lieu of detention) and released to go see his daughter. Now his car was towed and he called a cab from jail to get to the ER. Official complaint on officer is not upheld, he is found guilty in court and he is alive to talk about what jacka$$e$ the cops are.

 

Bottom line......nobody and I mean nobody gets to act or drive this way in AZ. Nobody. Pregnant, sick, lame or lazy the ultimate goal is safety. So one can complain all they want about the women getting a break by two and not by another. I would ask the first two officers when they were gonna pull their head out of their a$$?

 

People are people......they lie and pull the pity party on me all the time.

 

BTW did I ever tell you about the drug OD that ran off laughing cuz she had IV access?? Yep...people are screwed up...well some of them anyway.

[AZKomet]

We in fire/rescue also have a saying.

 

IV, O2, and transport.

 

 

Those who were 'burnt', out that is, had one.................takin' lives, and savin' names.

 

Don't forget the HIPAA, every pt. gets both pages and signs.

 

 

Or a refusal form!

[Agent_Orange]

You betcha.

[motorman587]

Had to add this story. Once I was at the ER working a traffic homicide call out. I was on the ER ramp for the ambulance. A car pulls up and young drunk lady stumbles out of the car, staggers towards the ramp and throws me the keys. She tells me to go park her car as she needed medical attention. Once she got closer her injury was a small scratch to her face, which she claim was a dog bite. She was arrest for DUI.

[russell_bynum]

LOL.