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BMW Blasphemy!


Ken H.

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What’s that funny little button with the two arrows above it on the left switch gear of the new K1300 series bikes?

 

426718101_nyReG-M.jpg

 

:rofl:

 

That is the greatest thing that BMW has done lately.. Never used to be a big deal but now with cruise control on the BMW pretty well across the board it makes a lot of sense..

 

Those dual side turn signal R/H cancel switches of old BMW are a real pain if riding in cruise mode using the left hand on bars & changing lanes.. Every R/H lane change & every cancel required the right hand to go back the bars (gets to be a pain after a few hundred lane changes)

 

 

Twisty

 

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I'm always curious as to which people prefer. At this point, I'd view the turn signal as a definite con against the k1300. I didn't like them at first, but now I don't want to go back.

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I hear you guys.. But I think it is what you get use to. I went from that style to the BMW style on my LT and now my RT... I rode my son's Gixxer the other day and it really didn't bother me. If you switch, you will get use to the new way. If you switch back, you will get use to the other way.

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It took me nearly two years to get used to the BMW turn signal switches. Then I got to where I liked them.

 

When I bought my FJR, it took me about 15 miles to get used to the way everyone else was doing things. I came to the conclusion that the BMW ones were counter-intuitive. But that doesn't mean they were bad.

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Harley got turn signal function/switches right. Push once to turn them on, push again to turn off. Both at once for hazard, and hold down to override auto cancel. TSSM cancels the signals based on speed, acceleration and other factors, and is 'right' about 90% of the time.

 

I never understood why BMW added a third button to cancel either signal, and the auto cancel function is primitive at best. My 1977 Suzuki works like the 'new & improved' BMW switch, so I'm sure I'll get used to it... :/

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At one point I had a HD, FJR, RT........I went to hand signals.

 

I ain't smart enough.

 

BTW...I remember following Steve1150 after he bought the VFR. He went to hand signals within 15 minutes.

 

 

 

I'm glad they made the change.

 

 

 

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Sorry after two years with the RT it is the one thing on the bike I do not like - especially turning/cancelling and twisting the throttle all at the same time somehow I just am not smooth on the throttle when I have to cancel - kind of need finger tips on the throttle and thumb on the cancel. Anyhow it will be a while till I could save up for the $25K for the K1300!

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Doesn't matter, I'll quickly get use to smashing the stink outa the new turn switch trying to blow the horn at the little blue hair talking on the cell phone.

Bill

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My first bike was a Japanese standard with the leftside single button turn signal (and auto cancel). Never have gotten used to the dual signal switches on my HD or BMW. IMHO, throttle hand is too busy to be fooling with a turn signal.

 

Rob

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I really don't get what you detractors are squawking about.

 

I think international standards for switch gear to be a safety standard. Ever since I got my '02 RT, I've HATED the switches. At least riders of the new GT, & hopefully later RT's, won't be giving idiot cagers the ole loud left turn signal. :P

 

Now, if you want to talk about Spanish dirt bikes going to left foot shift, I'll argue that one. :grin:

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This isn't funny at all.

 

I've got 140 miles on my new (to me) KLR and I still have to look down at the switch to engage the turn signal. I have NO IDEA how long it's going to take for me to figure it out.

:P

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I'm always curious as to which people prefer. At this point, I'd view the turn signal as a definite con against the k1300. I didn't like them at first, but now I don't want to go back.

 

BMW turn signals seemed weird at first, but I got used to them quickly. I like having an OFF-button. I've ridden Harleys with self-canceling signals, but sometimes a turn was too gentle to turn it off and the indicator was hard to read on a sunny day, so I wasn't sure if pushing the button again would turn the signal off or turn it back on.

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I personally don't like the new ones as I find the current signals very ergonomic... just a little thumb movement and you've hit the signal... the ones on my Honda's were too far up on the stalk where you had to take the palm of your hand of the left grip and reach up to activate it. When I moved back from the ST13000 to the R1200RT, home sweet home... all was good.

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Doesn't matter, I'll quickly get use to smashing the stink outa the new turn switch trying to blow the horn at the little blue hair talking on the cell phone.

Bill

 

That's what I was thinking too.

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skinny_tom (aka boney)
This isn't funny at all.

 

I've got 140 miles on my new (to me) KLR and I still have to look down at the switch to engage the turn signal. I have NO IDEA how long it's going to take for me to figure it out.

:P

 

Turn signals are overrated. Besides, once you drop that thing in the dirt a couple times you'll realize they're a pain in the butt to keep on the bike as well, and quickly learn the art of hand signals.

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Yes, it's a step backward. For instance wouldn't it be easier if cars had, instead of that stupid single control lever, a left turn switch lever on the left of the wheel, a right turn switch lever on the right of the wheel, and cancel switch somewhere else? It might seem a little silly at first, but you'd 'learn to like it.'

 

 

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I found the previous version easy to use, ergonomically intuitive and aesthetically pleasing.

 

The "new" version looks cluttered, ans disfunctional. Not to mention ergonomically designed for very easy use when wearing winter gloves, NOT.

 

A complete rebuild of my current bike will be a lot cheaper than " switching " over in the future.

 

A big thumbs down, or is that up, to cancel???? :/

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This isn't funny at all.

 

I've got 140 miles on my new (to me) KLR and I still have to look down at the switch to engage the turn signal. I have NO IDEA how long it's going to take for me to figure it out.

:P

 

Turn signals are overrated. Besides, once you drop that thing in the dirt a couple times you'll realize they're a pain in the butt to keep on the bike as well, and quickly learn the art of hand signals.

 

 

There is one rather large problem associated with the art of “hand signals”.. Almost all cage drivers (especially the young ones) have no idea what they mean.. And only a portion of the motorcyclists know hand signals..

 

Twisty

 

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In this day and age if you make a hand motion toward someone they might think you are "flipping them off". Just imagine all the road rage hand signals could create.

 

Seriously, I think the turnsignal preference is based on what you are most comfortable with. Having 3 bikes in my garage (Japanese, HD, BMW) and each with its own signal protocol is very confusing. I think one type should be universal on all bikes and as stated in my previous post the left hand single switch should be it. Many more bikes on the road with that signal in use. Now I'll duck while the flames fly.

 

Rob

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Turn signals are overrated. Besides, once you drop that thing in the dirt a couple times you'll realize they're a pain in the butt to keep on the bike as well, and quickly learn the art of hand signals.

 

 

There is one rather large problem associated with the art of “hand signals”.. Almost all cage drivers (especially the young ones) have no idea what they mean.. And only a portion of the motorcyclists know hand signals..

 

Twisty

 

+1 For a right turn, do you point your hand up or down? I can never remember.

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FWIW, I think the signal switch change is a retrograde step.

 

By far the most elegant switch, from a human-factors-engineering perspective, is what is offered by the Kisan Signalminder: push right to turn right...push right to cancel; push left to turn left...push left to cancel; push both for 4-way flasher...push both to cancel. It couldn't be simpler; no need to look for the switch, no fumbling or accidental horn push; no tiny toggle to work with a thick glove and the smallest range of thumb movement required.

 

Even better, the Signalminder did not overide the stock operation of the switch gear. You could still use the cancelling button if it was your preference.

 

 

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FWIW, I think the signal switch change is a retrograde step.

 

By far the most elegant switch, from a human-factors-engineering perspective, is what is offered by the Kisan Signalminder: push right to turn right...push right to cancel; push left to turn left...push left to cancel; push both for 4-way flasher...push both to cancel. It couldn't be simpler; no need to look for the switch, no fumbling or accidental horn push; no tiny toggle to work with a thick glove and the smallest range of thumb movement required.

 

Even better, the Signalminder did not overide the stock operation of the switch gear. You could still use the cancelling button if it was your preference.

 

 

 

 

 

Sidmariner, the older Honda’s had a better switch operation as far as “human-factors-engineering perspective”,, a single switch that you pushed left for L/H turn,, pushed right for R/H turn & just pushed the button in for cancel in either direction..

 

 

 

The problem with “push right to turn right...push right to cancel; push left to turn left...push left to cancel” is you have to look at the turns signals to be sure they are on or off or you can easily turn a signal on instead off canceling if it is already off,, or turn it off thinking you are setting it to on.. My Harley has the push right to turn right...push right to cancel; push left to turn left...push left to cancel & it is so easy to re-set the signal thinking you are canceling it or turn it off thinking you are setting it..

 

Twisty

 

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FWIW, I think the signal switch change is a retrograde step.

 

By far the most elegant switch, from a human-factors-engineering perspective, is what is offered by the Kisan Signalminder: push right to turn right...push right to cancel; push left to turn left...push left to cancel; push both for 4-way flasher...push both to cancel. It couldn't be simpler; no need to look for the switch, no fumbling or accidental horn push; no tiny toggle to work with a thick glove and the smallest range of thumb movement required.

 

 

Gosh, just like an 80's harley....

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Yes, it's a step backward. For instance wouldn't it be easier if cars had, instead of that stupid single control lever, a left turn switch lever on the left of the wheel, a right turn switch lever on the right of the wheel, and cancel switch somewhere else? It might seem a little silly at first, but you'd 'learn to like it.'

 

I was under the impression that my car was one the few built with turn signals.

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FWIW, I think the signal switch change is a retrograde step.

 

By far the most elegant switch, from a human-factors-engineering perspective, is what is offered by the Kisan Signalminder: push right to turn right...push right to cancel; push left to turn left...push left to cancel; push both for 4-way flasher...push both to cancel. It couldn't be simpler; no need to look for the switch, no fumbling or accidental horn push; no tiny toggle to work with a thick glove and the smallest range of thumb movement required.

 

 

Gosh, just like an 80's harley....

 

:grin: I was thinking the same thing. Say what you want about HD but they figured out the technical complexity of turn signals about 30 years ago. I'm used to the RT routine but it's archaic at best.

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"What’s that funny little button with the two arrows above it on the left switch gear of the new K1300 series bikes?"

 

Release/Eject left saddle bag.

Release/Eject right saddle bag.

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I like the BMW turn signals. :thumbsup: BMW is like the Borg and I have been assimilated. In fact I bought the '08 KGT because the were going to change the turn signals on the '09. Guess this means I will have to keep this bike for a while.

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Turn signals are overrated. Besides, once you drop that thing in the dirt a couple times you'll realize they're a pain in the butt to keep on the bike as well, and quickly learn the art of hand signals.

 

I'm with Boney on turn signals being over-rated, but I'm not for hand signals either...

 

I say, just keep 'em guessing! :thumbsup:

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I love the traditional turn signals on my Beemers. If I could adapt them to my Triumph I would.

 

Linz

 

Do you mean up for left, down for right?

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It must be the economy. BMW found a way of doing with one switch what they used to with three. Imagine the savings! :)

 

My R75 did all that and start the engine with one switch.

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I like the BMW turn signals. :thumbsup: BMW is like the Borg and I have been assimilated.

 

It's just the opposite for me. Maybe it's because I learned to ride on Japanese bikes with outmoded controls that integrated all the functions into one switch ( :) ), but after riding BMWs for ten years, I still haven't gotten the hang of it the BMW approach. I won't go so far as to claim that it's ergonomically lacking, but I've never been able to wrap my brain around the idea of using three separate switches to signal and cancel turns.

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I like the BMW turn signals. :thumbsup: BMW is like the Borg and I have been assimilated.

 

It's just the opposite for me. Maybe it's because I learned to ride on Japanese bikes with outmoded controls that integrated all the functions into one switch ( :) ), . . .

 

You learned on a Suzuki?

 

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If they are actually changing all their bikes to the asinine turn signal switch that most other bikes use, they will likely lose me for a customer.

 

I can't believe that they would change one of the best features of their bikes and go with the cheap crap that most others use just to save a few dollars. Perhaps they are trying to make the system like the Japanese in order to help get people convertng from other bikes.

 

Having several bikes with "both" systems makes you really realize just how good the existing BMW system works. I understand that Harley is the only other manufacturer that was using the better system.

 

The "Final Drive" problem would never stop me from buying a BMW. This probably would!

 

FWIW I learned on bikes that had no turn signals and still own one that came new with no turn signals. I've always had some of each and so can't say that I prefer one system to the other based upon what I was used to. I'm only basing it on what works the best. This became glaringly obvious last year when I would frequently ride the X-Moto (with the single switch) and the RT in the same day.

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Harley got turn signal function/switches right. Push once to turn them on, push again to turn off. Both at once for hazard, and hold down to override auto cancel. TSSM cancels the signals based on speed, acceleration and other factors, and is 'right' about 90% of the time.

 

I never understood why BMW added a third button to cancel either signal, and the auto cancel function is primitive at best. My 1977 Suzuki works like the 'new & improved' BMW switch, so I'm sure I'll get used to it... :/

 

My '83 Sportster was even easier, push the button and hold turn signal on let go turn signal off . One button on each side. I guess that's why the BMW system does not bother me.

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Dave in Doodah
Sorry after two years with the RT it is the one thing on the bike I do not like - especially turning/cancelling and twisting the throttle all at the same time somehow I just am not smooth on the throttle when I have to cancel - kind of need finger tips on the throttle and thumb on the cancel. Anyhow it will be a while till I could save up for the $25K for the K1300!

 

+1 Gimme the old slide switch on my '83 RT anyday... on and off with the left thumb. Pure and simple. Thumbing for the cancel paddle while accelerating out of a turn still bugs me on the 1150.

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Dave in Doodah
"What’s that funny little button with the two arrows above it on the left switch gear of the new K1300 series bikes?"

 

Release/Eject left saddle bag.

Release/Eject right saddle bag.

 

CSTTNL (Coffee-spewing-through-the-nose-laughing) at this one... :rofl:

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The guy I bought my RT from had pulled the molex plug and rearranged the pins, so that the left turn signal is now the horn button and vise versa. The right turn signal is now the cancel button and vise versa. It makes a lot of sense to have bigger and easier to hit buttons for the horn and the cancel, and as it was my first BMW, I did not have to adapt. I love it & I've never changed it back.

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The guy I bought my RT from had pulled the molex plug and rearranged the pins, so that the left turn signal is now the horn button and vise versa. The right turn signal is now the cancel button and vise versa. It makes a lot of sense to have bigger and easier to hit buttons for the horn and the cancel, and as it was my first BMW, I did not have to adapt. I love it & I've never changed it back.

Brilliant.

Finally a fix for the angry left turn signal. Wish I had heard of this years ago. :clap::thumbsup:

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I seem to recall reading in the BMW press material released on the K1300s that the new switch arrangement will migrate to all BMWs. While I like the arrangement on my R12RT, I don't think the new one would be any big deal.

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I was riding a Kawasaki yesterday and found the turn signals and high/low beam buttons all very intuitively placed. Harley's setup is also very easy to use. I've sometimes reapplied the turn signal, but never had to hunt for the correct button.

 

I'm glad BMW is becoming less idiosyncratic but the number of buttons on that bar make it look like a TV remote control. I'm sure they all *do* Very Important Things, but give me a break.

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If you think the motorcycle turn signal controls are difficult, try the "I" drive on the automobiles. I have a new X5 with this modified dial/joystick/multifunctional doo-dad that drove me nuts for about 2 months until I convinced myself to "think german". I have it down pat now in about the same amount of time it took me to learn calculus. :dopeslap:

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