Appropriate motorcycle redux ...

[ElevenFifty]

These are the most important questions I have ever asked this group ... I know they've been asked before, but I want to show your responses to Daniel.

 

Daniel is my daughter's intended. He's 22 and just signed up for the MSF course. He will be buying his first bike after the new year and has never riden. He will use this 'around town' and limited 2-up recreational riding though he doesn't expect to do long distance touring.

 

He has his eye on a Ducati 998. I have two brief questions.

 

Is the 998 a good 'first' bike?

What would you recommend?

How many years have you ridden?

How many miles a year?

 

Thank you so much!

[Deek]

These are the most important questions I have ever asked this group ... I know they've been asked before, but I want to show your responses to Daniel.

 

Daniel is my daughter's intended. He's 22 and just signed up for the MSF course. He will be buying his first bike after the new year and has never riden. He will use this 'around town' and limited 2-up recreational riding though he doesn't expect to do long distance touring.

 

He has his eye on a Ducati 998. I have two brief questions.

 

Is the 998 a good 'first' bike?

What would you recommend?

How many years have you ridden?

How many miles a year?

 

Thank you so much!

 

That's actually FOUR questions!

 

I can't comment on the Duke but personally I'd recommend a less expensive motorcycle, maybe a Suzuki V-Strom or similar until he knows what he wants.

 

Another strong recommendation: I'd try to dissuade him from this goal: "He will use this 'around town". Do more rural than urban riding for at least the first few months until he begins to put it all together. At least for me that make sense.

 

I've been riding for about 20 years over the past 40. I have near 60k miles in the past 5 years on the bikes below. I didn't ride that much until I retired about 6 years ago.

[kudzu]

 

It speaks well of Daniel that he has signed up for the MSF course before riding. And, I like his taste in motorcycles! Having "his eye on a Ducati 998," may not be as ludicrous as it first seems to experienced riders. Having not ridden anything, much less anything anywhere near the realm of a 998, all he knows is that it is a high performance, gorgeous machine from a legendary manufacturer. Why wouldn't any young motorcyclist be drawn to such a bike? I understand.

 

The reality is that besides being an insane choice for a first bike, generously assuming he survived the experience, Daniel would not even enjoy a Duc 998 at this stage. Riding a bike with that kind of performance envelope sanely, not to mention legally, on public roads is not nearly as smuch fun as it seems it would be. OTOH, with the necessary skill level, riding it on a track would be one of motorcycling's real highs!

 

Daniel may not appreciate your butting in here and certainly won't put much stock in what your old-fogy, BMW-riding friends have to say, but I would be willing to bet that with more information and a little experience to give him a bit of perspective, he will make a good decision and recognize the Duc 998 as something to be aspired to.

[BULLman]

Is the 998 a good 'first' bike?

No.

 

What would you recommend?

Something cheap,safe and wasn't on the pole a few years ago in AMA racing. [No high hp crotch rockets]

I spent $200 to get my first bike. '83 Suzuki GS650L w/ 40+k miles. It didn't look good and not everything worked, but it started, stopped and it was a good place to start to see if I wanted to ride a bike and what type of riding I wanted to do - ie what bike should I buy next.

 

That is to say if you like the yooung man or not. If you don't, than the 998 would be a GREAT bike [just kidding ]

[OoPEZoO]

Is the 998 a good 'first' bike?

I wouldn't consider it a good first bike......I'm not even sure its a good 2nd or 3rd bike. Its very powerfull, and expensive to fix. That goes for mechanical and cosmetic.

 

What would you recommend?

I would recommend something smaller to start with. I'm not a fan of telling everyone that they should start on a 250 dual sport.....I think thats kind of retarded, but a 250-650cc bike would be a much better choice than a liter sized race bike. If he is set on some sort of a sports bike, I've always been partial to the Suzuki Katana. Its hard to suggest a bike without knowing the person. My first legal street bike was a Katana 750, but then again......I'm a pretty big guy and have been riding for as long as I can remember.

 

How many years have you ridden?

I've been riding on the street for 9 1/2 years. I got my permit/license and my first street bike when I was 20 years old.

 

How many miles a year?

In that 9 1/2 years I've ridden about 60k miles.......45k miles of that has been in the past 3 1/2 years. When I bought my BMW I went from riding 2-4k miles a year to riding 12-20k miles a year.

[motorbob]

A 998 superbike as a first bike ! The kid won't survive his first season.

A mid size standard is a smarter choice.

[tallman]

No.

Budget?*

42

10-30,000

 

*Something with experience on it already.

anything from a 250-500 Ninja to 650v strom versys

or an F650 BMW w/abs

 

You don't mention gear, but he shuld budget for that (ATGATT) too,

[waylap]

998 first bike? NO WAY. He'll stand a good chance of being killed by too much raw power without experience AND the BENEFIT of a few prior close calls with death on a motorcycle.

Something much more mild and all purpose / UJM.

or what about a Triumph America type bike? F800ST?

Been riding for 24 years, with 3 years spent as a Sheriff's motor officer.

6k a year

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

He has his eye on a Ducati 998. I have two brief questions.

 

Is the 998 a good 'first' bike?

What would you recommend?

How many years have you ridden?

How many miles a year?

 

Thank you so much!

 

Duc 998? No shortage of power, and not much weight. Sounds like a pretty hot bike.

 

My suggestions:

 

Save the Duc for a later date. For a first bike, look for something well-used (but reasonably reliable), something he won't mind dropping on its side a few times. Tell him to check on insurance costs before committing to buy anything; I suspect the Duc won't be cheap to insure, especially since he's so young. First bike ought to be cheap to buy (since it's likely to get dropped) and cheap to insure (since it's likely to get dropped).

 

I'd also suggest something with a lower power-to-weight ratio than the Duc; he would be wise to rack up a few thousand miles (at least one riding season) and develop a modicum of riding skills before looking for something with more power.

 

Me? 10 years of riding on the RT (started when I was 29), averaging about 13K miles per year. My first couple thousand miles of experience (when I was 18-22) were on my dad's old Honda CM 450. Something like that Honda (but with better brakes) - would be a wise choice for a first bike.

[T__]

These are the most important questions I have ever asked this group ... I know they've been asked before, but I want to show your responses to Daniel.

 

Daniel is my daughter's intended. He's 22 and just signed up for the MSF course. He will be buying his first bike after the new year and has never riden. He will use this 'around town' and limited 2-up recreational riding though he doesn't expect to do long distance touring.

 

He has his eye on a Ducati 998. I have two brief questions.

 

Is the 998 a good 'first' bike?

What would you recommend?

How many years have you ridden?

How many miles a year?

 

Thank you so much!

 

 

ElevenFifty, having owned a few Ducati’s I can’t say I would recommend a Ducati (especially the 998) to any first time rider.. Can’t even say I would recommend a 998 Ducati to seasoned rider as a primary motorcycle..

 

Ducati makes a fun motorcycle to ride,, not the fastest but plenty fast,, good brakes,, great handling,, super looks..

 

My experience with Ducati is they are maintenance hogs (ask the Ducati dealer how much a regular 998 maintenance & valve adjustment costs? Then ask how often it needs to be done?).. Unless you do the work yourself it is very expensive.. They are not an easy bike to work on yourself unless you have an extensive mechanical background & lots of tools..

 

The 998 (in my estimation anyhow) is not a 2 up motorcycle so try that part out before buying..

 

If you happen to break the motorcycle (& in my experience you will) parts are slow to show up (most common word from my dealer is: (2-3 weeks) so if your Ducati is your only ride you can be without the bike for a part of the riding season..

 

One good thing about a Ducati is (in my opinion) they seem to be accepted everywhere.. You can ride with the Harley group & they seem to accept it as an up level Harley,, you can ride with the BMW groups & they all want one so it fits right in,, the GoldWingers really don’t seem to like the Ducati but they don’t even like older GoldWings in their group,, even the sport bike groups seem to accept the Ducati as one of their own..

 

I guess you really have to look at the intended usage.. If all you want is a show prop to ride to bike night or the local bar the 998 is a fantastic show prop.. The ladies love those red Duc’s.. If you are a real rider then probably isn’t the best choice for a day to day bike.. If you are a track day type they make a nice track day bike (for a rich person) as they are not cheap to replace parts on..

 

BTW I have been riding for over 50 years now & still love the Ducati,, just not as a primary or even a second bike.. Does make a great play toy though..

 

Twisty

 

 

[RTP'er]

That is too much bike for starting out. He will hurt himself.

And this is something else nobody mentioned. I would not allow 2up riding, especially with my daughter, until he had about 20,000 miles experience...

[SageRider]

"Is the 998 a good 'first' bike?"

No. Too much power in the hands of too little experience.

While MSF training and youthful reflexes may help, there is no substitute for experience, and the better judgement which comes with it.

The most dangerous period for a beginning motorcyclist is not when first learning to ride, but at that point where the rider thinks they know how to ride yet still has only a few thousand miles of experience.

 

"What would you recommend?"

Something in the 250cc to 750cc range, NOT a "sportbike". Preferably a used bike selected with the assistance of an experienced rider. It should be inexpensive, in good mechanical shape, and easy to maintain on a very limited budget. This is a good way to begin obtaining the necessary experience.

My first bike: 400cc. 2nd bike: 500cc. Didn't step up to 1000cc (most powerful bikes of the day) until I had in excess of 80K miles on the first 2 bikes.

 

"How many years have you ridden?"

Since 1977

"How many miles a year?"

Never figured it out. Currently have about 500K total miles on motorcycles.

 

 

[outpost22]

1. Only get the 998 if you don't want to live to see your next birthday

2. Get a used bike like a Vstrom, F650 or similar that already has "character flaws" that you can add to.

3. Since 1972

4. I have no idea at this point

 

p.s. no two-up riding until he has ridden for a year.

[Sp8er8er]

No. Nein. Nada.

 

How about a Honda Nighthawk? (they still make those?) If he hasn't ridden he doesn't know he even likes it. He can still have alot of fun mastering a 250.

 

43.

 

a bunch.

 

When I got my first permit in California we weren't allowed to have passengers. There's good reason for it.

 

Yeah for the MSF.

 

What would Baba Ram Dass say?

 

[MikeB60]

He has his eye on a Ducati 998. I have two brief questions.

 

Is the 998 a good 'first' bike?

What would you recommend?

How many years have you ridden?

How many miles a year?

 

Thank you so much!

 

I am an accident investigator for the Army and it’s my job to evaluate the actions that lead to an accident or more appropriately crashes in off duty motorcycle mishaps. All too often I hear "I or We knew he or she would kill themselves on that thing" followed by "I should have done something". I suspect that you know this is a bad choice and are trying to do something.

 

MSF training is great (I'm a rider coach) but it does little to influence judgment and in my opinion any 22 y/o new rider with any sport bike (much less a Duc 998) will exercise bad judgment from time to time. New rider + bad judgment on this type of motorcycle can get you in a mess that you just don't have the skills to get out of in a big hurry! And I don't think anyone can ride on the back for more that 15 minutes either! One more thing, insurance is brutal on this bike for a 22y/o rider as well.

 

You've gotten some great recommendations on bike; I'll echo the recommendations for an SV650 ABS.

 

I've ridden street bikes since 1975 and currently average around 12000 miles per year.

 

[motoguy128]

A 600cc sportbike wouldn't be so bad, but a 1000cc sportbike is too much of a handful One errant twist of the throttle and you're in trouble fast, even at low RPM's.

 

Plus, the Ducati has a very tall first gear that's not ideal for beginners. That tall first gear and forward riding position. also has the tendency to make you feel like you're going slower than you are. It's not good for a beginner to feel like he's only going 30mph when he's actually doing 50mph. I rode a 996, it gives you that feeling compared ot a high reving 600cc sportbike.

 

If he really wants a sportbike, have him look at a used 600cc sportbike. Even the newer bikes makeing close to 115HP, still have pretty tame powerbands under 7000RPM. So they are very controllable for a beginner if he's smart enough to stay off the power until he's ready.

 

That being said, I started on a 600cc sportbike, and had a few close calls, that were aided by the machine's performance. I would have been better off starting on a SV650. My pocket book also would have been a little more full.

 

IN SUMMARY - I recommend as SV650 or similar. I've been riding since 2001 and have about 80,000 miles under my belt including about 2000 on the racetrack in my early years. I crash on a closed road, a couple tip overs and a few run-offs, but I've avoided "the big one" so far.

[MAT2CHI]

I do not feel a 998 is a good first bike.

 

I would recommend either a dual sport of a SV650.

 

I have forty-seven years of motorcycle experience.

 

My mileage will vary.

 

I see more people buying motorcycles that are beyond their capabilities because they want something that they feel is cool, sporty and powerful; not always the best choice. I own four motorcycles, I have a 2004 BMW R1150RT, a 1989 H-D FXST, a 2006 Honda CRF450X and a 1992 Suzuki DR350S dual sport. It's kind of funny but today I'm going to ride the old stagecoach road up Mt Tam and out to the beach and I'm planning on riding my dual sport because it's the most fun on that ride.

[11101110]

Can't comment on the 998, but I know a guy with a 750cc Duc. He has mentioned about the lack of parts availabilty and the required maintenance.

 

I was looking at the SV650 or 650GS as potential first bikes but never found a used one a resonable distance from me. I was opposed to buying a new one due to the damage to my pride that would occur when I dropped it. Then I found a bunch of 1150RTPs near by. Bought one of those. Yes it was tooo big for a first bike and probably too much power too. I did spend three months riding around my extensive neighborhood (no through traffic ) as pentence. Yes I did drop it a few times. Quickly learned the point of no return when it started leaning. Luckly I was never moving foward when I droped it. The 650gs was too small (I'm 6'3") but I still have an eye out for a used SV650ABS.

 

only about an year and a half of riding (minus six weeks trying to find someone to fix my FD)

 

I have managed close to 10k mi since I bought the bike.

[FLTRI]

Here is a link to an excellent article on just this subject: Intro to Motorcycles

 

It's a long read, but very well thought out, IMHO...

 

[ElevenFifty]

You guys are GREAT!! Exactly what I needed. Can't thank you enough.

 

The 'no passenger till 20K' miles is a sound suggestion.

 

Ram Dass is not here, now ... Prolly out strolling the hills with Alan Watts

 

THANK YOU

[eddd]

I was glad to see someone picked up on the 2-up. That is very important at this stage. I'd probably start with a bike that is even smaller (engine-wise) than the 650s being recommended. A 650 is still a very formidable bike...heck, a 650 was considered a big bike when I started out.

 

No real idea how many miles in all.

 

But 27,000 last year. (My first with my RT).

 

42,500 so far this year.

[codougd]

Is the 998 a good 'first' bike?

 

As all here have noted: no

 

Too much performance. Expensive to maintain (I used to have a poster with an older Duc on it with the caption: "Ducati: making mechanics out of motorcyclists for over 80 years."

 

For two-up it is a poor choice. For a passenger, a Ducati is basically a suppository.

 

What would you recommend?

 

Many have opined on this. I don't have a brand, model or year recommendation. However, something used and easy to ride. I hesitate to mention this in a BMW forum, but second-hand Japanese cruiser-style bikes are dirt cheap, reliable as a clothespin, widely available, and a safe, easy-to-ride choice.

 

How many years have you ridden?

 

About 40 years.

 

How many miles a year?

 

The past couple of years I've averaged about 8k miles per year.

 

regards

 

[lvnvbiker]

I had to chime in here. I am 43, my first bike for street use was a Yamaha SR500 at 15 1/2 for my learners permit. I have been on two wheels since I was 5 yrs old. The Duck is way wrong for a nOOb, hell my second bike was an RD400 daytona (2stroke, sick fast, and deadly) and I nearly killed myself on it many times. That Duck is something that I would handle with kid gloves at this stage of my life nevermind the maintenance costs, I could not keep my wrist out of the pipe on that thing. My best suggestion would be a WeeStrom or a Versys both very capable and fair priced bikes with the abilty to do some fire roads and funn stuff, and both available USED for cheap. Get a few years on them then figure out what he wants to do from there. Or let him get the Duck and have the spouse up the life insurance for a while while praying every day that he makes it thru the learning curve. I actualy have a friend here in Vegas that bought a 1098 as his first bike about two years ago and it scares the hell out of him, hence the low miles and perfect wax job on it. He is now on a used 650 KLR for the most part and rides the Duck very sparingly. He was told by numerous folks not to buy the Duck and later admited that it was partialy a spite purchase. As for the 2up part, I rode two up quite a bit after I got my DL, butg then I did have alot of off road time. I'd say give it a year or so at least, and preferably after getting some more advanced training and reading every self help/training book one can find on motorcycling. You do have to keep in mind that most of us on bikes are a bit of the rebel or against the grain kind of folks to a degree, so you have to place your advice carefully with out setting off the I'll show you reflex that we tend to have. Best of luck to you and him, and I hope that he has many joyous miles as a truely free man on his bike no matter what he gets.. Oh I forgot miles per year, I ride anywhere from 15k to 25k a year depending on time off, I'd ride more if I could hit that damn lottery...

[Dave in Doodah]

Is the 998 a good 'first' bike?

No.

 

What would you recommend?

He should take the MSF course and then make a better choice after the experience and advice from instructors. I would not be alive today had I started on a bike like that at 22 years old. Also, he should not chose a bike before riding it and several others. And certainly not a sport bike the first time out.

 

How many years have you ridden?

22 years; I was 23 years old.

 

How many miles a year?

5-10k

 

PS: +1 on the no 2-up riding for a while...

[Dances_With_Wiener_Dogs]

Is the 998 a good 'first' bike?

What would you recommend?

How many years have you ridden?

How many miles a year?

1. Hell no!

2. Something with an upright seating position and crash bars. KLR650?

3. I'm 41 and started when I was 17.

4. Currently no so many, but I did 99K on my RT in 8 years and probably another 100K prior to that on various machines.

 

So he can borrow a bike for the beginner MSF course. Whatever bike he gets he should attend an advanced MSF course where he'll learn more skills. (and relearn what he forgot before). Hopefully good gear is part of the plan too. Show him some crash photos and threaten him with great bodily harm if he drinks and drives.

 

As for insurance Geico came back with about $2400 per year (highest limits available in all categories).

 

[Quinn]

There's no real need for me to chime in. But I will anyway.

 

Remember that we're talking about 22 years old. Anyone remember 22? He's done a lot of reading on the bike"s stats and peer prestige is in full play as well as immortality and overnight healing. He's also got reflexes and nerves that most have left far behind. Of course he can ride the 998; and if he survives the first two or three years, will do a fine job of it. Most people here don't think he can survive that long. With spastic power, a poor seating position for visibility, and awkward lowspeed manners, this is just not the bike to start out with. Hopefully the MSF course will convince him of that.

 

My choice would be a Triumph Bonneville. Good neutral seating, good for 2 up when the time comes, and enough power and handling to keep up with people who aren't being stupid.

 

 

[SweetP]

I would just echo the others on the idea of a beginner on a Duc. I've been riding on and off for 40 years and still wouldn't mount one of them. 'A man's got to know his limitations': Harry Callahan.

 

Another point was made about how one really knows that biking is for them even before they've tried it. I had a friend who bought a 750 Honda cruiser, first bike. In a year he rode it less than 1k miles and sold it. Even after he took lessons, it was obvious that the bike scared him, not the least because he is only 5'5". I tried in vain to talk him onto a smaller, lighter ride but his machismo wouldn't let him.

 

 

[TedG]

Is the 998 a good 'first' bike?

 

Not unless your name is Valentino Rossi. In fact I would suggest that a 998 or any high end sport bike will retard a new rider's learning curve. When I decided my mid-life crisis would take me racing, the best suggestion I got was to race prep an older, smaller, slower bike and race in Clubman...simply the best riding advice I ever received. A bike that overwhelms your skill and experience sets will make you a poorer rider.

 

What would you recommend?

 

SV650 works for me...in fact, at the track an expert rider on a SV650 will absolutely smoke an average rider, no matter what the average rider is on, and there are no exceptions to this statement. The SV650 is quick, agile, predictable, comfortable, easy to ride, and fun. No loss of face involved in riding this bike...unless your friends all ride Busa's or Road Kings or what not.

 

How many years have you ridden?

 

38 years...gaack I can't believe it's been that long.

 

 

How many miles a year?

 

About 12K on the street and 2-3K at track days (too old, slow, and pain averse to race any more).