Site regarding Final Drive Failures

[sdkid]

Anyone been here?

 

http://www.bmwfinaldrive.com/index.html

 

As someone considering a BMW R1150RT, the web site above scares the hell out of me.

[Unhofliche_Gesundheit]

its all about about the "pre-loading" (via shims) - very sensitives - needs to be done to tight tolerances.

 

good on ya for doing your research.

i guess i didn't do enough - i hadn't heard of this till mine failed.

my bike is not high miles but is already on #4th crown bearing (the main failure point of the Fd):

 

#1: km 0 at factory

#2: km 59000 dealer changed (in time of previous owner)

#3: km 72500 failure away from home - due to logistics just had bearing changed - preload not checked.

#4: km 72757 got home. bearing already toast - changed and shimmed by indy using bmw tooling - hope this time will last.

 

due to some bad luck and a bit of dumbness i'm out 750$ for #3 and 4.

i think the final drive failure risk can be 'managed' - but need to factor this into the cost of the bike.

 

management to me means having preload set up right (imho good indy better than dealer). change FD fluid frequently and look for flakes. check for rear wheel looseness/play early and often. if you are going to go far get breakdown insurance.

my 0.02. i'm a newbie - maybe some with better longer term perspective will have something different to say.

 

 

 

 

 

[11101110]

Indys rule . I watched Anton (Virginia Motorad) work on my FD for seven hours (not quite continously though but learned a shed load). The bearing on mine that was toast was the taper bearing, the crown was not really that bad. But I ended up with ALL new bearings and a record for the most expensive FD repair .

 

Interestingly I was at a local machine shop delivering some drawings and the owner came out to look at my bike. I told him how much I spent one the repair and said that the problem bearing was not with the usual culprit. When I mentioned that there was evidence of a previous repair of the usual culprit he immeadiatly asked if I thought if ALL the bearing were replaced at that time. A machinist got it Some dealers don't .

 

Moral of the story. If a bearing in you FD is comming out the drain plug best to pony up and do all the bearings becasue that magnet won't keep the flakes from getting into the other bearings and doing damage.

[ElevenFifty]

I fretted about the FD problem, though at 80K my RT is symtom free and may NEVER have an FD problem. I talked with Tom Cutter at Racing Chicken (like Anton, an indy expert) and absolutely believe the problem is:

1. bad manufacturing QC - so it is random

2. manageable with regular inspections on frequent fluid changes

3. a properly rebuilt one will be good for another 80K or more.

 

For my money the 04 1150RT is just about perfect in all other respects (cruise control would be nice).

[smiller]

If you read around a while you'll see that this is a commonly-discussed topic. Most of the evidence seems to point to the fact that proper internal clearances are critical to long life and these are not always set correctly during repair or even by the factory. Get a good one and you're golden, get a bad one and you'll see an early failure... which is frequently compounded by the fact that most shops don't have the tools and/or experience to do a proper repair job, resulting in repetitive failures. There is no reason the oilhead final drive shouldn't see 100,000 miles of service or more and in most cases they do, or will if set up properly.

 

There's not much an owner can do to head off any of this off beyond performing recommended service and and watching the drain plug magnet very carefully for metal flakes (if you do this religiously you should get plenty of warning of an impending failure.)

 

Lastly, if a failure does occur research out an experienced rebuilder with references (this last point can't be over-emphasized.) If set up properly an oilhead final drive should have a long and trouble-free life, as most do.

 

 

[Fugu]

As someone considering a BMW R1150RT, the web site above scares the hell out of me.

NO reason to be scared. Most BMW riders are normal.

 

 

 

 

[11101110]

I fretted about the FD problem, though at 80K my RT is symtom free and may NEVER have an FD problem. I talked with Tom Cutter at Racing Chicken (like Anton, an indy expert) and absolutely believe the problem is:

1. bad manufacturing QC - so it is random

2. manageable with regular inspections on frequent fluid changes

3. a properly rebuilt one will be good for another 80K or more.

 

For my money the 04 1150RT is just about perfect in all other respects (cruise control would be nice).

 

I had initally feared the FD "problems" before buying a BMW. But after extrensive reading I came to the conclusions above. And after my rebuild fiasco I believe in the fourth: Most shops are unable or unwilling to do a proper rebuild.

 

looking at the data base out there with millages listed along with the failures. It is obvious that a lot of failures occure early then tapers off before creaping up as the bikes apporach 100k.

[sdkid]

So I guess it is almost a "luck of the draw" kind of thing. OK.

 

If I were to wind up with the short end of the stick on a bike, and had to have a complete rebuild of a FD unit---just how much would that run? (If I buy a Beemer, I want to be realistic about possible expenses.)

[sdkid]

As someone considering a BMW R1150RT, the web site above scares the hell out of me.

NO reason to be scared. Most BMW riders are normal.

 

 

 

 

Did you say "Most"???

 

[Unhofliche_Gesundheit]

depends who does it and how much needs doing.

parts are not prohibitive if caught early.

 

i almost did it myself (fooled around for a bit in my garage with measuring tools) but decided false economy. experts on this forum (do a search) do all the labour themselves at home regularly.

 

for #4 - from the indy - i got both bearings changed and the shimming done for 350$ (cdn).

 

about 1/3 was parts (2 bearings 96$ + 58$).

the 350$ is 'all in' - including disassembly and reassembly (i rode in and out) taxes, gearoil, etc.

 

my seal and o-ring were only 2 days old so not included in the 350. they cost an additional 25$ and 6$ respectively.

 

my indy did not check the backlash (teeth mating) -we didnt talk about it - but he told me he has "done more than his fair share of FD rebuilds and never had one come back" (which i believe more than i believe the dealer when they said they have " hardly fixed any FDs - very rare for them to fail") so i guess he knows what he is doing and the backlash would be ok as is. at 72kkm the teeth looked like new!

 

individual results may vary....

 

 

[Mark K]

...If I were to wind up with the short end of the stick on a bike, and had to have a complete rebuild of a FD unit---just how much would that run?...

 

Mine was $266 at the local (ex)dealer.

[11101110]

 

(which i believe more than i believe the dealer when they said they have " hardly fixed any FDs - very rare for them to fail")

 

 

Maybe people are smart enough NOT to take FDs to that dealer.

 

700 but better than new but I am the record holder. If I had a choice between a rebuild from Anton or a new FD, I'll take the rebuilt one.

[sdkid]

OK--- one last question from me on this:

 

Does the FD problem avail itself more to the R series or the K series? Are those components the same in both? I guess what I am asking (as I continue to search for a bike to buy) is this: Is there a particular series that is MORE reliable in reference to the FD issue?

[Unhofliche_Gesundheit]

i think red bikes might be more prone to the failures.

 

actually....i asked my indie mechanic, while he was fixing my FD, 'which bikes are more reliable of the BMWs - the Ks, the R's, the GS's ?' i was questioning not just about the FD but the bike in general.

he said they are all pretty much the same as they are all built on the same platform.

 

- upon his answer i began wondering if nevertheless, some years might be better maybe 'before went to single sided swing arm' or 'post 2007' or ? or? - but i thunk i was exhaustiong him with all my questions and as i was paying him by the hour so i shut up.

 

so indeed there might be some nuances - that's french for 'small differences that propeller heads at this site will tell you about in the next post or two' -