A day to be Proud

[John Ranalletta]

Dave, I appreciate your input on health care, but I only used it to illustrate another point. Likely, that topic deserves a thread of it own, but not from me.

[marcopolo]

Whenever I observe a U.S. Presidential election from north of the border, I'm reminded of just how many voting methods you folk have (I assume there are at least 50 different "systems", one per state?). Up here, federal elections are run by a federal agency, not by individual provinces/territories. As a result, it's standardized across the country. BTW, we're still filling in a paper ballot with a stubby pencil, but it seems to work, with no "hanging chads" and the like. In fact, we had a federal election here two weeks ago. Elapsed time from the election call until voting day was 37 days. Something to be said for that, I think. On the other hand, voter turnout was the lowest in Canadian history (59% of eligible voters, if I recall). Quite a contrast to your turnout.

[ghaverkamp]

In fact, we had a federal election here two weeks ago. Elapsed time from the election call until voting day was 37 days. Something to be said for that, I think.

 

There is, though having a head of state selected for you through birth makes the process somewhat easier.

 

Standardization is tough, because by our constitution the states, and not the people, elect our President. It's hard to standardize when they might not -- and don't -- all do it the same way.

 

If this were simply a federal election, I might have taken Steve's path and abstained yet again. However, I had local officials and 34 ballot measures to vote on as well. That makes standardization tricky, as well.

[marcopolo]

In fact, we had a federal election here two weeks ago. Elapsed time from the election call until voting day was 37 days. Something to be said for that, I think.

 

Standardization is tough, because by our constitution the states, and not the people, elect our President.

 

Good point, the arcane world of the electoral college. I've always wanted to visit that college on my many trips to the U.S., but my GPS just can't seem to find it.

[John Ranalletta]

I'd prefer relying on the 7-Eleven indicator chronicled on CNBC:

• Customers chose the red cups more often than the blue cups in both 2000 and 2004, correctly predicting a George Bush victory.
• This year, however, the blue Barack Obama cups are outnumbering the red John McCain cups 60 percent to 40 percent nationwide.
• In the battleground state of Pennsylvania, Obama has an even wider lead of 62 percent to 38 percent.

Works for me and we can buy lottery tickets and smokes. If we can use sampling for the census, why not the presidential election?

[tobyzusa]

Actually in a perfect world I don't think ignorant people should be allowed to vote.

 

Now I'm feeling disenfranchised.

[Ken H.]

But this election just doesn’t work for me. I simply do not have any political connection to either guy.

Might I suggest this then - Learn the position of someone you care about, know, respect, whatever; and vote to support him/her.

 

If you truly don't feel any candidate represents you, put your opinions aside for the moment and do it for the betterment of the whole.

 

[SeanC]

What I'm really asking is what should people, who don't have a choice, do in an election like this? Should we simply hold our noses and vote for "the lesser of two evils;" vote "present" and not select anyone; write in a candidate who has no chance of winning; or not vote at all?

 

I once voted "present" on an absentee ballot and found myself in jail for voter fraud.

 

But this election just doesn’t work for me. I simply do not have any political connection to either guy.

 

I feel that going through the motions of voting, just for the sake of doing it, is disingenuous and thoughtless.

I feel your pain. I'm a very derecha kinda guy in a very izquierda state. Since moving here from Montana in the late 80s, I've flunked out of California's Electoral College every four years like clockwork. My role is to be the Otter to the California EC's Dean Wormer ("Who delivered the medical school cadavers to the alumni dinner?"). I'll likely always be on Double Secret Probation in California, but I continue to matriculate for two reasons: to vote No on the seemingly endless stream of propositions (well, most of 'em anyhoo) and to have a say in local politics.

 

Like Paul said, my vote with regard to this year's marquee event wasn't so much about which candidate I prefer (neither, actually), but rather who I choose to stand with. The likely winner doesn't bother me so much as his supporters do, and well, I see my vote as a statement of "I do not stand with you." That helped me feel better in casting it. (Besides, I prefer beer over Kool-Aid anyway.)

[Hoover]

We're holding our breath this side of The Pond ........

 

Then hope we don't get a "hanging chad" mess like we had before. You could suffocate holding your breath for that long.

[smiller]

Speaking of being a responsible voter, I wonder how many of us here knew what party affiliation they would be voting for even before a candidate was selected? It seems to me that number is pretty high, in which case why be 'informed' at all?

 

 

[ghaverkamp]

Speaking of being a responsible voter, I wonder how many of us here knew what party affiliation they would be voting for even before a candidate was selected? It seems to me that number is pretty high, in which case why be 'informed' at all?

 

I did end up voting for a presidential candidate today, and it was actually a party I have generally mocked more mercilessly than most -- but not all.

[yabadabapal]

I just wanted to thank the moderators and BMWST for allowing this thread. I know it was near the crossing line and thanks to all who participated for not posting political.

[Les is more]

You're right, Bobby.

 

It has teetered on the brink a couple of times.

 

I'd like to see it not plummet over the edge. If it becomes a conversation about party affiliation and this party versus that party, it'll go down faster than Wiley Coyote.

[smiller]

If today is on the brink then I wouldn't even want to think about tomorrow. You may have to hire extra help...

[blkvelvt]

I guess I won't be making any comments on saving the "Free Range" chickens in California.

 

Why we are voting on this is beyond belief

[Ron_B]

If it becomes a conversation about party affiliation and this party versus that party, it'll go down faster than Wiley Coyote.

 

Well, I guess that nixes my endorsement of the Very Silly Party candidate.

[motoguy128]

Whenever I observe a U.S. Presidential election from north of the border, I'm reminded of just how many voting methods you folk have (I assume there are at least 50 different "systems", one per state?). Up here, federal elections are run by a federal agency, not by individual provinces/territories. As a result, it's standardized across the country. BTW, we're still filling in a paper ballot with a stubby pencil, but it seems to work, with no "hanging chads" and the like. In fact, we had a federal election here two weeks ago. Elapsed time from the election call until voting day was 37 days. Something to be said for that, I think. On the other hand, voter turnout was the lowest in Canadian history (59% of eligible voters, if I recall). Quite a contrast to your turnout.

 

That be socialized... communist type talk... trying ot nationalize everything.

 

We like out antiquated 200+ year old voting traditions. It gives the election character... just like the BMW Boxer engine.

 

In that US the individual states and counties prefer to keep some of their authority and control over the election process local. Then again... 100's of millions of dollars could be saved by standardizing the system and having it run by a federal agency. A good example is that equipment in my community is probably only reaching 80% utilization meaning there are no lines most of the time. Some Urban areas are probably at 105% utilization and will have a 4-8 hour backlog after the polls close. In a centralized system, some of the equipemnt in my area could be reallocated to other areas. This would work best if the voting was spread out over about 6-8 days so that equipment could be transferred as needed based on early demand.

 

 

Speaking of conplicated voting systems... anyone have a link to an article explaining what happens if there is a tie vote??? I read something the other day and it sounds like it's open to interpretation, and I believe it's only happened one other time, but the more recent amendments to the constitution may impact how it's interpretted. There's some fun scenerios in there. I like one where The Speaker of the House becomes acting president if the mess isn't sorted out before Innaguration Day... or the one where one candidate could becomes President and the other VP.

[SeanC]

Speaking of conplicated voting systems... anyone have a link to an article explaining what happens if there is a tie vote???

Man, I sure hope it's not settled with free throws or a game of HORSE...

[smiller]

I like one where The Speaker of the House becomes acting president if the mess isn't sorted out before Innaguration Day...

Stop it, you're giving some people nightmares...

[Boffin]

Speaking of conplicated voting systems... anyone have a link to an article explaining what happens if there is a tie vote???

Man, I sure hope it's not settled with free throws or a game of HORSE...

 

Don't worry - you just revert to being part of the British Empire with Queen Elizabeth II in the Whitehouse

[Selden]

Check out "The View From Your Election" posts at Andrew Sullivan's blog today. There are some really inspirational moments, such as this one:

 

At 3 p.m. on Election Day, the Foundry Methodist Church voting station in Dupont Circle was doing light but brisk business. As I signed my name to receive my ballot, one of the poll workers loudly asked another to ring the small bell on their table. "Everyone please listen up for a moment," he boomed while holding on to an old black woman standing perhaps 5'2" with a huge grin. "This is our special voter of the day. She's 95 years old and this is her first time voting."

 

As everyone in the room took her in and the thundering applause echoed through the old church basement, her glinting eyes quickly teared up and she somehow managed an even bigger smile.

[SageRider]

Speaking of conplicated voting systems... anyone have a link to an article explaining what happens if there is a tie vote???

Man, I sure hope it's not settled with free throws or a game of HORSE...

 

If no candidate receives a majority of electoral votes, the House of Representatives elects the President from the 3 Presidential candidates who received the most electoral votes. Each State delegation has one vote. The Senate would elect the Vice President from the 2 Vice Presidential candidates with the most electoral votes. Each Senator would cast one vote for Vice President. If the House of Representatives fails to elect a President by Inauguration Day, the Vice-President Elect serves as acting President until the deadlock is resolved in the House.

[steve.foote]

What I'm really asking is what should people, who don't have a choice, do in an election like this? Should we simply hold our noses and vote for "the lesser of two evils;" vote "present" and not select anyone; write in a candidate who has no chance of winning; or not vote at all?

 

I once voted "present" on an absentee ballot and found myself in jail for voter fraud.

 

But this election just doesn’t work for me. I simply do not have any political connection to either guy.

 

I feel that going through the motions of voting, just for the sake of doing it, is disingenuous and thoughtless.

I feel your pain. I'm a very derecha kinda guy in a very izquierda state. Since moving here from Montana in the late 80s, I've flunked out of California's Electoral College every four years like clockwork. My role is to be the Otter to the California EC's Dean Wormer ("Who delivered the medical school cadavers to the alumni dinner?"). I'll likely always be on Double Secret Probation in California, but I continue to matriculate for two reasons: to vote No on the seemingly endless stream of propositions (well, most of 'em anyhoo) and to have a say in local politics.

 

Like Paul said, my vote with regard to this year's marquee event wasn't so much about which candidate I prefer (neither, actually), but rather who I choose to stand with. The likely winner doesn't bother me so much as his supporters do, and well, I see my vote as a statement of "I do not stand with you." That helped me feel better in casting it. (Besides, I prefer beer over Kool-Aid anyway.)

 

Well done, Mr. Neidermeyer. That is the funniest post in many months.

[yabadabapal]

How to get involved. Thats the message Im getting. Abraham Lincoln said Ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country. Later used by FDR. Another great man who many of you know said "Life's Great, Participate. This country is great and I think its important to realize at least for myself that voting once every four years and paying your taxes is still below the acceptable standard of protecting and maintaining this great land of ours. It almost doesn't matter who wins or looses. Its not about what the next president is going to do. What matters is what you and I are going to do. How are we going to participate. How are we going to say thank you to all those who have given their lives for our comfort. How are we going to prove to ourselves and others that our lives are worth more than just the time that passes by. The average life being 3900 weeks, is just long enough to say oops. Thanks to a man I have never met, Glen Mcintosh, I have an answer. The details are up to each of us individually. The answer is "Participate"

 

[Selden]

Abraham Lincoln said Ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country. Later used by FDR.

That quote is from John F. Kennedy's inaugural in 1964, not Abraham Lincoln, although it has roots in the 19th century. Supreme Court Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes, in a Memorial Day address in 1884 expressed a similar sentiment:

 

"It is now the moment when by common consent we pause to become conscious of our national life and to rejoice in it, to recall what our country has done for each of us, and to ask ourselves what we can do for our country in return."

 

[bakerzdosen]

Abraham Lincoln said Ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country. Later used by FDR.

I'm really not sure where you read that, but from what I've seen, Ted Sorenson first wrote that line and JFK used it in his inaugural address. Sorenson praised Lincoln for being the greatest presidential speech writer, but that's about the only correlation I can find between the two (meaning Sorenson didn't cite Lincoln when he wrote that speech.)

 

I can't find any reference to FDR using it.

[yabadabapal]

thanks fellas, my bad. So was it FDR who first said it in those words and then Kennedy who used it again. Im going to look up Ted Sorenson and Holmes/ Good education for me. Thanks again.

[Shaman97]

However, I had local officials and 34 ballot measures to vote on as well.

 

34??? Aren't the SF supes doing their job?? Oh, wait a minute...never mind.

[BabyCow]

I don't know who wrote McCain's conceding speech but it was very good

[David]

I'll bet he wrote it.

 

A classy man who did his best and then accepted the results graciously.

[Shaman97]

These two candidates are capable of more things than I was aware of. They know how to relate.

 

[BabyCow]

Martin Luther King's dream has been realised. I wish President Obama all the best.

[Francois_Dumas]

We're holding our breath this side of The Pond ........

 

Then hope we don't get a "hanging chad" mess like we had before. You could suffocate holding your breath for that long.

 

 

Oh...... I figured the long lines for the ballot offices were caused by all voters now manually checking their punch holes..... maybe not ?

[yabadabapal]

Im very proud of both candidates. They were both honest and telling in their speeches. Congratulations to everyone who voted!

And congratulations to all of BMWST for keeping this thread non political. Thanks!

[beemerman2k]

I am in tears and I have been since last night. I still cannot believe this; am I living in a dream?

 

I pray President Obama is the right man for our country, as most of us certainly think so. As he acknowledged in his acceptance speech, this isn't about him, this is about the health of our nation. I pray he manages to fulfill his ideals, if not out right promises.

 

But my tears spring from all the pains and disappointments carried by those who preceded me. They lived and died believing that in theory, the USA could have a black President, but not really thinking it was ever likely to happen. My father was such a man, and I lament he is not here today to enjoy this moment. He chaired the UNCF in South east Michigan. He was always involved in Civil Rights, and he is the one who taught me about Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

 

God bless the USA!!! I love my country and now I am floored by my country. Shame on me for every time I doubted this nation and her resolve to look past arbitrary characteristics such as race, gender, and so on. Never again!

[Francois_Dumas]

Shame on me for every time I doubted this nation and her resolve to look past arbitrary characteristics such as race, gender, and so on. Never again!

 

I can fully understand your enthusiasm and emotions, they are shared by many !

 

But isn't the above true for just about HALF of your country ? It seems to me you can still doubt the other half ;-)

[beemerman2k]

But isn't the above true for just about HALF of your country ? It seems to me you can still doubt the other half ;-)

 

I got a good chuckle out of your response, but allow me to comment on what I know is an oversimplification on your part in making a humorous point.

 

A vote for McCain was not a vote for racism and a vote for Obama was not a vote for inclusion. For a vast majority of Americans, they voted for the leader they felt would lead us on to greater heights and out of this economic situation we are in. Only a small percentage said the race of the candidate mattered the most, and among them, most voted for Obama! (I heard upwards of 60+ percent did)

 

Aside from his inexperience, the greatest concern most Americans have with Obama are his liberal ideals. We have values and principles in this country that we hold dear, and we're not about to compromise them just because of some temporary economic situation. I think that is the primary concern about Obama -- is he about to introduce some policies based upon values that are foreign to the American ideal? To me, personally, that American ideal is sacred! That American ideal is what made it possible for Obama to win that office in the first place, so I am not about to entertain compromising it for the sake of expediency.

 

So although I know you post in jest, I just want to clearly acknowledge that the vast majority of Americans have long ago shed the race based biases of the past. Personally, I would say that I can really only doubt, maybe, 5% of my country when it comes to race based prejudices, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if that figure is distortedly high.

 

There is no way Obama could have won the White House if this country were anything like it was just 40 years ago. No way. This is a new country with very little resemblance left from those days.

[Nice n Easy Rider]

Shame on me for every time I doubted this nation and her resolve to look past arbitrary characteristics such as race, gender, and so on. Never again!

 

I can fully understand your enthusiasm and emotions, they are shared by many !

 

But isn't the above true for just about HALF of your country ? It seems to me you can still doubt the other half ;-)

 

Francois,

 

In our War of Independence, not all of the colonists fought against the British. Democracy is a work in progress.

[PRC]

But isn't the above true for just about HALF of your country ? It seems to me you can still doubt the other half ;-)

 

and that is why everyone else in the world can't understand the USA. We differ in our views, however when all is said and done, we come together as ONE people, united in keeping the hope and promise of our great country going. Then again, I don't expect you to understand, hell the English still can't get along with the French, the situation that continues in the Baltic region, Bosnia, etc. So please Europe, take a page from our play book.

[tallman]

After campaigning, and spending last night awaiting results, three of the 7 offices in the county we work in are too close to be called official.

They all require a mandatory recount.

The margins are 7 votes, 44 votes, and 81 votes.

About 14,000 votes were cast.

Representative Democracy may have problems, but your vote does count.

[blkvelvt]

I am glad this thing is over. The news and coverage have been overwhelming. Please give me back my regularly scheduled programming.

[Marty Hill]

James,

 

Well said as usual.

[Bob Palin]

In our War of Independence illegal revolution, not all of the colonists fought against the British.

Fixed

[Boffin]

In our War of Independence illegal revolution, not all of the colonists fought against the British.

Fixed

 

And it is not too late for the rest of you to follow the lead of General Benedict Arnold, realise the error of your ways and return to the Empire

 

Andy

[steve.foote]

I'm pleased with the outcome too. I wish President-elect Obama the very best and I sincerely hope he is treated with the same respect and courtesy that has been shown to President Bush by so many of our citizens.

[Nice n Easy Rider]

In our War of Independence illegal revolution, not all of the colonists fought against the British.

Fixed

 

And it is not too late for the rest of you to follow the lead of General Benedict Arnold, realise the error of your ways and return to the Empire

 

Andy

 

Andy,

 

I might consider joining you on the other side of The Pond if you didn't have those damn kamikaze pheasants trying to kill your bikers!

[motoguy128]

But isn't the above true for just about HALF of your country ? It seems to me you can still doubt the other half ;-)

 

and that is why everyone else in the world can't understand the USA. We differ in our views, however when all is said and done, we come together as ONE people, united in keeping the hope and promise of our great country going. Then again, I don't expect you to understand, hell the English still can't get along with the French, the situation that continues in the Baltic region, Bosnia, etc. So please Europe, take a page from our play book.

 

I think the sad truth is that after the election is over about 10%... toss-up voters... are satisfied with the selection for president despite their selection for "the other guy". Another 20% that voted for the loser will simply accept their fate and go about their lives. The remaining 20% or so are convinced that we are doomed to failure and start stocking up on food and ammo and some will get their tin foil hats ready. A small minority need to be monitored by the Secret Service and FBI because their convictions are unwavering, and their morality is questionable.

 

But I do agree that some portion of the country will respons positively and work towards a common goal.

 

One thing I would like to see, is for thsoe who pulled their money out of the emarket, that are living VERY comfortably, to consider making a patriotic act and risking a portion of their wealth on private investments in small business, local communities and do something to help rebuild the country. Set aside personal ambition and give something back to help rebuild the country rather than continue their unending focus on maximizing their return.

 

It was private donations and investment that helped fund the Revolutionary War. The same investment was made by purchasing War Bonds to fund WWII and I think the same investment can be made ot help make the country stronger economically and advance emerging technologies developed domestically and in joint ventures with other friendly nations with similar goals.

 

Gee... I sound a little like a stink'n politician.

[TN_R_Girl]

I'll bet he wrote it.

 

A classy man who did his best and then accepted the results graciously.

 

Absolutely!

 

My hope now is that both men's supporters will be gracious in their respective roles.

[Marty Hill]

Caugh...Choke/hi Steve.

[fatboyjim]

Then again, I don't expect you to understand, hell the English still can't get along with the French, the situation that continues in the Baltic region, Bosnia, etc. So please Europe, take a page from our play book.

 

The English-French 'thing' has been going on for years and will always be going on. A bit like brothers who always quarrel.

 

In 1939 a little jumped up $%$$ wandered into the Sudetenland and Czechoslovakia then Poland and started on the rest of Europe. Great Britain and France jumped in while the rest of the world watched.

 

USA cannot be compared with Europe as Europe isn't a country.

 

Europe is made of loads of little neighbours, who don't always get along. We haven't got a shared currency or language, the Baltic thing is Religion based and while have a hole at each end of me it won't fully end.

 

The USA only has two, both Christian faith dominated.

 

Anyway the USA was founded by Europeans.