Jump to content

WARNING, Final Drive locks up


penquino

Recommended Posts

Driving along at about 60 klm/hr and without warning, the back end locks up and skids safely(pure luck) to a stop. Get the bike on the double stand, rock the wheel until it unlocks, spin it in neutral and the FD sounds like a bucket of bolts. No sign of oil leak or any side play. This was very scary and we were lucky it did not happen when we were going faster and in a curve or heavy traffic. This just happened to my buddy this weekend and the dealer has not had a chance to examin the bike. The bike was an 07 GT with about 20,000 klm's. I know this is the hexhead forum but we all share the same final drive. HAS THIS HAPPENED TO ANYONE ELSE???

Link to comment

I've heard of the same thing happening when the chain fails on a chain drive bike. I had hte transmission on my Honda sportbike jump out of gear and back in, nearly highsiding me. I've also heard of a rear end locking when a tail bag fell into the rear wheel. I don't think any of those warrant warning everyone of impending doom. This is 1 report...the sky isn't falling, I think just and apple fell off the tree. All other FD reports have not involved the rear wheel locking up. I hope this dealer takes good care of your friend.

 

It's hard to saw what happened until it's examined. Perhaps some early warning signs were ignored and it pregressed to a ctastrophic failure. An oil leak is merely a sign that a seal has failed. A catastrophic gear failure is unrealated to the oil seals.

 

Link to comment
I've heard of the same thing happening when the chain fails on a chain drive bike. I had hte transmission on my Honda sportbike jump out of gear and back in, nearly highsiding me. I've also heard of a rear end locking when a tail bag fell into the rear wheel. I don't think any of those warrant warning everyone of impending doom. This is 1 report...the sky isn't falling, I think just and apple fell off the tree. All other FD reports have not involved the rear wheel locking up. I hope this dealer takes good care of your friend.

 

It's hard to saw what happened until it's examined. Perhaps some early warning signs were ignored and it pregressed to a ctastrophic failure. An oil leak is merely a sign that a seal has failed. A catastrophic gear failure is unrealated to the oil seals.

 

The voice of reason. Thank goodness!!!!

Link to comment
I've heard of the same thing happening when the chain fails on a chain drive bike. I had hte transmission on my Honda sportbike jump out of gear and back in, nearly highsiding me. I've also heard of a rear end locking when a tail bag fell into the rear wheel. I don't think any of those warrant warning everyone of impending doom. This is 1 report...the sky isn't falling, I think just and apple fell off the tree. All other FD reports have not involved the rear wheel locking up. I hope this dealer takes good care of your friend.

 

It's hard to saw what happened until it's examined. Perhaps some early warning signs were ignored and it pregressed to a ctastrophic failure. An oil leak is merely a sign that a seal has failed. A catastrophic gear failure is unrealated to the oil seals.

 

The voice of reason. Thank goodness!!!!

 

Voice of reason! Geez, who let that guy on the board? :grin:

Link to comment

Geesh,take a pill, all I really wanted was to find out if this has happened to anyone else. I hope this is not the start of a "trend" but it would have to start with someone.Lets hope it does'nt happen to anyone else.

Link to comment

I know someone else who had a catastrophic final drive failure that launched him off the bike. It was a K1200S.

 

These things need to be discussed.

 

I, for one, would like to hear exactly how it failed, Penquino. Please keep us informed.

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Don_Eilenberger

There is always a risk on any driveline (chain, driveshaft) that failure of one component could lock up the driveline and rear wheel. Good reason to do the practice that MSF gives in the ERC on riding out a locked rear wheel... I've heard of it happening on chain drives as well as shafties.

Link to comment
Don_Eilenberger
Geesh,take a pill, all I really wanted was to find out if this has happened to anyone else. I hope this is not the start of a "trend" but it would have to start with someone.Lets hope it does'nt happen to anyone else.
I suspect the reason your posting received the attention/comments that it did was because of the subject "WARNING, Final Drive locks up" you used. It is a bit over the top for someone just looking for information.
Link to comment
I know someone else who had a catastrophic final drive failure that launched him off the bike. It was a K1200S.

 

These things need to be discussed.

 

I, for one, would like to hear exactly how it failed, Penquino. Please keep us informed.

 

 

 

Well there you go... that's 2..now we have a trend, although statistically insignificant, until we have a third case.

 

Both are K bikes... so who cares. :grin: The R bikes must not make enough power or us R bike owners ride like a bunch of old ladies. Althouhg honestly I could see the drive train lash being more servere from the K bikes given the greater inertia and I believe higher peak torque numbers.... although a single stroke from the massive cylinder on the R bikes delivers more momentary abuse... than that wimpy little K bike cylinder. :lurk:

Link to comment
Warning - Thousands of people have ridden millions of miles without an issue. Why aren't they posting?

 

They're too busy racking up miles.... or their bike is broken down where there isn't internet access. :grin: Although most members with failures have managed to find internet access somewhere.

Link to comment

Catastropic failures aside, the way I look at it, is if I can get 50,000 miles out of a final drive unit, I'm probably cost-wise equivalent to owning a bike with a chain. After 50,000 miles I would have gone through two or three sets of chains and sprockets, which run about $300 installed, not to mention the value of the time and materials needed to clean and lube the chain every 500 miles.

Link to comment
HAS THIS HAPPENED TO ANYONE ELSE???

I recall hearing about it one other time, also on a K-series.

 

Ignore the flame throwers - I think most of us recognized that your intention was not to rally the troops to march on BMW's front lawn decrying that all K bike FDs were destined to fail, but rather to share a little angst. Understandable.

 

Keep me (us?) posted on what you find out regarding the mechanism of failure. Glad you didn't go down.

Link to comment
HAS THIS HAPPENED TO ANYONE ELSE???

I recall hearing about it one other time, also on a K-series.

 

Ignore the flame throwers - I think most of us recognized that your intention was not to rally the troops to march on BMW's front lawn decrying that all K bike FDs were destined to fail, but rather to share a little angst. Understandable.

 

Keep me (us?) posted on what you find out regarding the mechanism of failure. Glad you didn't go down.

 

Exactly. Final drives that leak and get loose and fail are not a threat to life, per se. Final drives that lock up at speed are a big problem. It would be great to have a post-mortem analysis of the failure, to be able to assess if there is a larger risk lurking.

 

Please keep us posted.

 

 

Link to comment
Catastropic failures aside, the way I look at it, is if I can get 50,000 miles out of a final drive unit, I'm probably cost-wise equivalent to owning a bike with a chain. After 50,000 miles I would have gone through two or three sets of chains and sprockets, which run about $300 installed, not to mention the value of the time and materials needed to clean and lube the chain every 500 miles.

 

Priced a FD lately?

Link to comment

I had the FD replaced on my R12RT in July 2007 in Salt Lake City. Thankfully, it was under warranty, but the total job (parts/labour) was the better part of $2,000. That included FD, rear rotor and lug nuts.

Link to comment
Wow. That's like being sent to prison with no pants.

 

That was not nice of you, see now I have coffee all over my keyboard...

 

--

Mikko

Link to comment

Just to update...there really is nothing yet. The dealer hopes to have some answers by Friday. On a positive note, the BMW roadside assistance was excellent and so far the dealer has been great. I will keep the update coming.

Link to comment
Don_Eilenberger

So far - BMW has warrantied all the EVO-II rear drive failures - and put a silent extended warranty for 5 years (unlimited miles) on the rear drives on all bikes sold after 01/2007..

 

So where's the expense?

Link to comment

Ultimately i don't think the expense is the issue (for me). If my bike eats final drives and I can change them out for a relatively reasonable price, I'd still buy another BMW. I love the bikes.

 

The expense, I'm afraid, is intangible. It's that doubt in the back of my mind, when I cruising at a nice, legal 75 miles per hour, somewhere on Rt 81 in Tennessee, sandwiched between two 18 wheel trucks, that the design is flawed and it's going to lock up and toss me under the truck.

 

Listen, I'm not saying it's going to happen, but final drive issues on BMW's have been around FOR EVER. ( For sure since the R259 came out, what was it, '93??) An individual would think that the designers would have focused on getting it right this time. But that didn't quite happen.

 

Some of us are curious to find out the exact reason, to educate ourselves so we can remain vigilant.

 

I'm not worried that the sky is falling. I'll certainly ride my bike next weekend. :Cool:

 

 

Link to comment
So far - BMW has warrantied all the EVO-II rear drive failures - and put a silent extended warranty for 5 years (unlimited miles) on the rear drives on all bikes sold after 01/2007..

 

So where's the expense?

 

That's nice to know...

Link to comment

I should have mentioned that the cost I quoted was covered under 'good will' by BMW, so it had no resembleance to the off-colored analogy made above.

 

Link to comment
So far - BMW has warrantied all the EVO-II rear drive failures - and put a silent extended warranty for 5 years (unlimited miles) on the rear drives on all bikes sold after 01/2007..

 

So where's the expense?

 

That's nice to know...

 

You're right! Thanks Don!

Link to comment
So far - BMW has warrantied all the EVO-II rear drive failures - and put a silent extended warranty for 5 years (unlimited miles) on the rear drives on all bikes sold after 01/2007..

 

So where's the expense?

 

That's nice to know...

 

It's very nice to know. But it doesn't help those of us that purchased a bike prior to 1/2007. Mine is June 06 purchase and I've already had one final drive go toast. Anyone know WHY BMW is only giving an additional warranty to bikes that are purchased after 1/07? I did see the same info last night in this months BMW ON mag (there is an article about final drive failure in it)

 

I suppose I could argue with BMW that my current final drive was installed AFTER 1/2007 so it should have a 5 year warranty on it.. yea..yea.. that's it!

 

The whole thing kinda just pisses me off. If you have a problem, you OWN up to it and make sure it's covered. You don't try to push it under the rug like BMW is doing and make "silent warranties", thats really just ridiculous.

 

I can understand you can make design mistakes. I'm an engineer, I've made my share. But admit it when you do and fix it. I've said more than once, if I end up having to pay 2K for a new final drive, at that point, I will have owned my last BMW. Not because it failed, but because they KNOW there is a problem and won't admit it and make it right.

 

This year will be interesting, because the 2005's are coming off warranty. I'll be mighty curious to see if BMW takes care of these folks when the final drive fails. Mine comes off next spring....

Link to comment

Back in September - or possibly August - when this extended warranty was introduced, BMW made a press statement that due to too-rapid increase in sales they were having quality control issues at the factory. There is a lot of anecdotal evidence that the spline failures on oilheads are due to misalignment of trannys and that FD failures are due to incorrect shimming.

I consider that to be a lot more of an admission than BMW have ever given before and a press statement (in Europe) is not hiding the issue.

 

Andy

Link to comment

wow I heard the Force was strong that day was that a K1200GT I had mine up to 250km Between Sun Valley and Stanley ID total lock up would hurt.Its going to make me think twice good thing to keep a eye on.

Link to comment

"This year will be interesting, because the 2005's are coming off warranty. I'll be mighty curious to see if BMW takes care of these folks when the final drive fails. Mine comes off next spring.... "

 

Mine will have been out of warranty two years come next Feb. And it still has the original rear drive. 70k and still counting... The time of the warranty is more or less worthless... it's the miles that count.

Link to comment

Well...... aren't all final drives sealed?

How else does the oil stay in! :grin:

 

I think what you meant was when did the "lifetime fill" no maintenance final drive appear.

Of course we all know what happens to things when you don't do maintenance! :dopeslap:

 

Andy.

Link to comment
Well...... aren't all final drives sealed?

How else does the oil stay in! :grin:

 

I think what you meant was when did the "lifetime fill" no maintenance final drive appear.

Of course we all know what happens to things when you don't do maintenance! :dopeslap:

 

Andy.

 

The previous paralever drive (R1150/K1100 etc.) was vented to relieve pressure developed as the drive oil warmed up. This also allowed outside air to be pulled in as the drive cooled. This could allow moisture laden air to enter the drive.

 

The new, lifetime fill drives have no vent. They are sealed and there should be no way to contaminate the oil with external moisture or dust.

Link to comment
Joe Frickin' Friday
The new, lifetime fill drives have no vent. They are sealed and there should be no way to contaminate the oil with external moisture or dust.

 

Wow, that's surprising. With no venting, pressure inside the final drive will rise/fall with temperature due to expansion/contraction of the air pocket. Fill/seal it at 70F, ride it until it's 140F inside, and the pressure has gone up to about 2 PSI. Would not have thought lip seals would tolerate that over the long term without wearing faster and/or weeping oil...

Link to comment
The new, lifetime fill drives have no vent. They are sealed and there should be no way to contaminate the oil with external moisture or dust.

So instead of allowing some trivial entry of moisture/dirt via a vent (in amounts so insignificant that they don't even show up in an oil analysis) and replacement of the oil at regular intervals, a sealed design traps all metal particulates from internal wear in the drive for its entire 'lifetime.'

Link to comment
I know someone else who had a catastrophic final drive failure that launched him off the bike. It was a K1200S.

 

These things need to be discussed.

 

I, for one, would like to hear exactly how it failed, Penquino. Please keep us informed.

 

 

 

Well there you go... that's 2..now we have a trend, although statistically insignificant, until we have a third case.

 

Both are K bikes... so who cares. :grin: The R bikes must not make enough power or us R bike owners ride like a bunch of old ladies. Althouhg honestly I could see the drive train lash being more servere from the K bikes given the greater inertia and I believe higher peak torque numbers.... although a single stroke from the massive cylinder on the R bikes delivers more momentary abuse... than that wimpy little K bike cylinder. :lurk:

 

I thought one failure was an incident, two failures are a coincidence, and three failures are the begining of a trend. Being in Aerospace, we never want to see trends so as many labels you can come up with before using trend might get you a key to the executive cafateria. :thumbsup:

Link to comment

[quote}

I thought one failure was an incident, two failures are a coincidence, and three failures are the begining of a trend.

 

No. One is a case, two is case after case, and 3 is a case series.

 

Jay

Link to comment
The new, lifetime fill drives have no vent. They are sealed and there should be no way to contaminate the oil with external moisture or dust.

 

Wow, that's surprising. With no venting, pressure inside the final drive will rise/fall with temperature due to expansion/contraction of the air pocket. Fill/seal it at 70F, ride it until it's 140F inside, and the pressure has gone up to about 2 PSI. Would not have thought lip seals would tolerate that over the long term without wearing faster and/or weeping oil...

 

No one ever said the new design was sealing well. It seems like I have been seeing alot of seal only failures with the new design, vs when you saw oil on the design used on the oilheads, if you saw oil then its good bye final drive........ How many people have had seal only failures with the newer design??????

Link to comment

The final drive on my K12S failed in Death Valley last year. It was trying hard to seize and was cycling some chunks of metal through the gears. Ku-chunk, chink, wham! Kinda comic book style sounds. Anyways, I was able to ride it to Phoenix and get it repaired under the Western Service extended warranty. I would not buy another BMW without buying the extended warranty.

 

Cheers!

 

Todd

Link to comment

Soooooooo...What do we do to try and be aware of what's going on in there? Should FD fluid be changed on a regular interval even though it's supposed to be lifetime (I've done mine once already). What should the interval be? Is there anything else that can be checked besides a leaky seal or seeing obvious metal in the fluid to try and catch this before something bad does happen?

Link to comment

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...