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Crash at the Dragon-Caught on Film


Roadwolf

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Great pictures of the Harley, what with sparks and all.

 

Now that's the way you corner, by leaning over, not straight up like the "Dumbass" who is still braking in the corner. What ever happened to "Slow-in, fast-out" and "Brake before you lean?

 

There's nothing at all wrong with braking while in a corner.

 

I'd agree, as long as you're braking with the brake pads and rotors, as opposed to the undercarriage ... :smirk:

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russell_bynum
Great pictures of the Harley, what with sparks and all.

 

Now that's the way you corner, by leaning over, not straight up like the "Dumbass" who is still braking in the corner. What ever happened to "Slow-in, fast-out" and "Brake before you lean?

 

There's nothing at all wrong with braking while in a corner.

 

I'd agree, as long as you're braking with the brake pads and rotors, as opposed to the undercarriage ... :smirk:

 

I'm with you there.

 

:grin:

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Dick_at_Lake_Tahoe_NV
Great pictures of the Harley, what with sparks and all.

 

Now that's the way you corner, by leaning over, not straight up like the "Dumbass" who is still braking in the corner. What ever happened to "Slow-in, fast-out" and "Brake before you lean?

 

There's nothing at all wrong with braking while in a corner.

 

I agree--especially if you entered the corner too fast. And braking in the corner while across the double yellow--especially when you should be off the brakes and at the apex--is a good indication you entered the corner too fast.

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russell_bynum
Great pictures of the Harley, what with sparks and all.

 

Now that's the way you corner, by leaning over, not straight up like the "Dumbass" who is still braking in the corner. What ever happened to "Slow-in, fast-out" and "Brake before you lean?

 

There's nothing at all wrong with braking while in a corner.

 

I agree--especially if you entered the corner too fast. And braking in the corner while across the double yellow--especially when you should be off the brakes and at the apex--is a good indication you entered the corner too fast.

 

Sure...but who here has never overcooked a corner?

 

Anyone? Anyone?

 

If he ran into the SUV without his brakes being on, you'd all be saying "dumbass didn't even hit the brakes".

 

:grin:

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I've overcooked one myself, and sat waiting for stiches at the quick care laughing at myself. And you know the only thing I could say when I looked in the mirror was "Dumbass"...

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I think some people are believing that the SUV did not move over at all, thinking that as blame.

From what I read I don't think that anyone is either saying or believing that. The questions about the SUV's actions had to do only with possible sources of distraction and no one has said that the SUV did anything wrong at all. Personally I think that from the SUV driver's perspective everything was over in an instant and there was virtually zero time available for them to to anything even if they wanted to.

 

Exactly. John saw something that wasn't there, and then everyone piled on like lemmings. I pictured a loose football in an NFL game, with all the linemen diving into a big pile while the ball boy holds the ball up in his hand wondering what they're all doing. :grin:

 

OK, I take the blame, feel better............... :grin:

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OK now I'm sitting here trying how to figure out how the @##@@ the guy in the cage is at fault! In our society there seems to be a huge current of displaced blame, and this is a prime example. Like the guy in the motorhome that set the cruise and left the drivers seat to get coffee, then after the crash sued and won based on the fact that nowhere in the manual did it say that he couldn't. COME ON PEOPLE GET A GRIP! The guy on the bike was a squid, it is his fault period! If you trip over your own feet and fall off the curb is it your citys fault when you hit the ground? If you put the car in drive instead of reverse and run over your washer and dryer is it the car makers fault? Who's fault is it when you get a drunk driving, the liquor makers or the bartenders? It's not possible in any of those situations that it may be the fault of the one walking driving or drinking now is it...

 

Did anyone say the SUV was at fault?

 

Aw, c'mon, Russell, SUV's, like husbands, are ALWAYS at fault! :/

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Hey!!!!!!!!

 

I resemble that comment :(

 

At least in my house I always get the last word in with every argument....They are : Yes Dear :dopeslap:

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Nice n Easy Rider
:grin:

 

 

 

You're a good man, Eric!

 

 

You're a good man, Eric!

 

I bet Benedict Arnold's wife said that about him as well!! :grin:

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I like this picture of GS. I would think this is the K.T.M. some of you talking about. :thumbsup:

 

That's a really good picture, John. It's a bit aggressive for the K.T.M technique that folks here talk about. The RidingSmart technique doesn't call for the moving of one's butt off of the seat as he is doing. But, his upper body position, head position and arms look pretty good.

 

I'll bet he's moving through that corner quicker than the picture suggests.

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So I have a question on the Accident. In reviewing it I noticed the other motorcyclist in the opposite lane going the opposite direction of the accident bike. Based on the timing of the accident , we dont actually see the other MC until about the 3rd frame and at that point he is 100 feet beyond the seen of the accident.

So at the average rate of speed , might he have been coming up in his lane at the same time the accident MC was about to pass the truck and at that point the Accident bike could not veer into the other opposing lane because both bikes were at the same point on the road and so the Accident bike trying to stay in his lane as a last resort was already at a passing speed that couldnt be adjusted in time and ran into the side of the truck.

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Based on the timing of the accident , we dont actually see the other MC until about the 3rd frame and at that point he is 100 feet beyond the seen of the accident.

So at the average rate of speed , might he have been coming up in his lane at the same time the accident MC was about to pass the truck and at that point the Accident bike could not veer into the other opposing lane because both bikes were at the same point on the road and so the Accident bike trying to stay in his lane as a last resort was already at a passing speed that couldnt be adjusted in time and ran into the side of the truck.

 

No that would not be the case.

As you observed/stated in the 3rd frame the lead bike appears to be 100 feet beyond the other two vehicles.

It may be less then that but ill-regardless the distance of separation is substantial.

This accident (group of images) was over in a mater of seconds so the timing for your scenario is wrong.

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Here is the picture with a few annotations which should be self-explanatory.

 

ridesmart_ktm.jpg

 

Still a great picture..... I would blow that one up and hang it on the wall, if it was me. :thumbsup: Minus the red, green and yellow lines. :dopeslap:

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I'm tired of seeing people ride the Gap like they owned the road.

The cops are there because people like me got tired of having to avoid collisions from better riders (obviously) than I am.

When they put me, and my passenger, at risk for serious bodily harm, and possible death, and appear to have the ability and intent to cause such harm, perhaps I should defend myself as I would from any other lawbreaker who chooses, intentionally, to put a law abiding citizen's life at risk by acting in an illegal, criminal manner.

I couldn't have said it better myself Tallman. Nothing like over-analyzing a simple situation.

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I'm tired of seeing people ride the Gap like they owned the road.

The cops are there because people like me got tired of having to avoid collisions from better riders (obviously) than I am.

When they put me, and my passenger, at risk for serious bodily harm, and possible death, and appear to have the ability and intent to cause such harm, perhaps I should defend myself as I would from any other lawbreaker who chooses, intentionally, to put a law abiding citizen's life at risk by acting in an illegal, criminal manner.

I couldn't have said it better myself Tallman. Nothing like over-analyzing a simple situation.

 

Agreed. How would you defend yourself?

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2ndphoto.jpg

I've seen that picture sequence a dozen times, but what I've always found interesting is the stop motion of the front wheel compared to the back. Now shutter speed of the camera will of course cause this, but it’s interesting that the back wheel seems to be still in rotational motion. It looks like the guy was full on at least the front brake as it lost pavement contact.

 

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There is no shutter speed invloved in that photo. The front wheel is off the tarmac.

With some braking pressure the wheel will dead stop as it has in the photo.

The rear is still bitting so it's still spinning... since his foot is about to be ripped back. No foot braking there.

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Every time I see this photo, I reckon that the un-coolness of a full face helmet was probably passing through his mind. You can almost smell his drawers from the look on his face.

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I have to wonder if the rider became distracted by the photographer?

 

You've got to be kidding me. Surely your point is not to somehow blame it on the photographer! There are lots of people and interesting things on the side of the road everywhere I go. My job is two things: Pay attention or stop the bike. That's it.

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I have to wonder if the rider became distracted by the photographer?

 

You've got to be kidding me. Surely your point is not to somehow blame it on the photographer! There are lots of people and interesting things on the side of the road everywhere I go. My job is two things: Pay attention or stop the bike. That's it.

It is very obvious in the sequence that the rider was playing to the camera. This does not make the accident the photographer's fault. #1 priority on the bike is to ride the bike. Everything else is secondary. Rider exhibited poor judgement.

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Joe Frickin' Friday
I have to wonder if the rider became distracted by the photographer?

 

You've got to be kidding me. Surely your point is not to somehow blame it on the photographer! There are lots of people and interesting things on the side of the road everywhere I go. My job is two things: Pay attention or stop the bike. That's it.

 

Good grief.

 

There's a common theme in this thread, and it is this: anyone asking a question about potential factors in this incident is being accused of assigning blame/responsibility to something other than the rider who crashed. We won't learn much if all we can say is "the rider screwed up," without being able to assess/discuss how the rider screwed up, and what might have made things worse/better for everyone who was involved.

 

In this particular instance: to suggest that the rider may have been distracted by the photographer is not to blame the photographer at all. If the rider was in fact distracted, it's worthy of mentioning and lesson-learning, e.g. pay attention to where you're going, not to Killboy. It would be hard to fault the photographer in such an accident unless he was taking flash photos with some kinda photon cannon and blinding unsuspecting riders as they came around the bend.

 

In the case of the SUV driver: he's not to be faulted. BUT, assuming he was distracted by the camera, there's a small chance he could have avoided the collision if he had been watching the road instead. Why is this worth mentioning? If you're in a car and you kill a guy on a bike, you will feel bad for a long time, even if it's not your fault. it's in your interest to do whatever you reasonably can to avoid crashes, even those that aren't your fault.

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Good point Mitch.

 

A-Get some good rider training.

B-Dress for the ride

C-Don't ride over your skill level

 

My guess is he screwed up all of the above. Happens every day. I hope he's OK. I hope he's embarrased as hell. That's not running wide...that's flat missing the curve. Nobody's fault but the rider.

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russell_bynum
I have to wonder if the rider became distracted by the photographer?

 

You've got to be kidding me. Surely your point is not to somehow blame it on the photographer! There are lots of people and interesting things on the side of the road everywhere I go. My job is two things: Pay attention or stop the bike. That's it.

 

Good grief.

 

There's a common theme in this thread, and it is this: anyone asking a question about potential factors in this incident is being accused of assigning blame/responsibility to something other than the rider who crashed. We won't learn much if all we can say is "the rider screwed up," without being able to assess/discuss how the rider screwed up, and what might have made things worse/better for everyone who was involved.

 

In this particular instance: to suggest that the rider may have been distracted by the photographer is not to blame the photographer at all. If the rider was in fact distracted, it's worthy of mentioning and lesson-learning, e.g. pay attention to where you're going, not to Killboy. It would be hard to fault the photographer in such an accident unless he was taking flash photos with some kinda photon cannon and blinding unsuspecting riders as they came around the bend.

 

In the case of the SUV driver: he's not to be faulted. BUT, assuming he was distracted by the camera, there's a small chance he could have avoided the collision if he had been watching the road instead. Why is this worth mentioning? If you're in a car and you kill a guy on a bike, you will feel bad for a long time, even if it's not your fault. it's in your interest to do whatever you reasonably can to avoid crashes, even those that aren't your fault.

 

Mitch,

Please stop trying to have an objective, intelligent discussion. All we're interested in is conclusions that you could put on a bumper sticker.

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Just wanted to throw my 2cents worth in here. I spend my winters ski racing (ALPINE) with helmets and pads and we bang gates several times a week trying to relive our youth. What it does teach you is how to commit to a turn prior to the turn and I believe that if the commitment is not there than what we call "late" to the next gate occurs over and over until you can catch up to the race course. We have racers,observers,photographers standing next to the race course during our events and waving to the crowd will get you into trouble real quick and buying the beer after the race! I have been ski racing and driving a motorcycle for 30 years and i get the same feelings arcing a sweet turn on a RT or on my Fischer race skis. In my humble opinion the commitment to the turn was not in play.

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You want a bumper sticker?

"Avoid pain, stay in your lane"

 

How about: "Slow down, or go down".

I dunno. I really hate it when the only safety recommendation is "slow down". In this case speed was definitely not the problem, lack of riding well was.

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You want a bumper sticker?

"Avoid pain, stay in your lane"

 

How about: "Slow down, or go down".

I dunno. I really hate it when the only safety recommendation is "slow down". In this case speed was definitely not the problem, lack of riding well was.

 

For a lot of riders slowing down is the answer. If the rider in the picture went into that turn a little slower he might have made it. Too many riders crash from going into a turn too fast, (or riding beyond their capabilities) and for them my slogan applies. And it was meant to be tongue in cheek.

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I dunno. I'm just not convinced you are all giving this your best analysis. I studied the riding photo until what was bothering me became clear. If you look at the sequence of pictures again - watch the near-field ground closely from one photo to the next - you'll notice that the pivot point is very close to the road, so this photographer must have been standing in clear view of motorists from both approaches - therefore greatly diminishing the surprise factor.

 

So, I ask myself, what did our driver and rider see that clearly distracted them up there in the Gap? Well, I digitally enhanced the series, carefully scanning for anomalies (I'm a government trained Intell Analyst, don't try this with commercially available equipment in a non-secure environment). I noted an image reflected in the windshield of the SUV, so I scanned, cropped, and cleaned up the image. Here it is:

 

Deliverance-01.jpg

 

I think we can cease the speculation. Now I ask you, how the hell is Ride Smart going to prepare you for that?!! I for one cannot blame the rider. You may feel differently.

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I dunno. I'm just not convinced you are all giving this your best analysis. I studied the riding photo until what was bothering me became clear. If you look at the sequence of pictures again - watch the near-field ground closely from one photo to the next - you'll notice that the pivot point is very close to the road, so this photographer must have been standing in clear view of motorists from both approaches - therefore greatly diminishing the surprise factor.

 

So, I ask myself, what did our driver and rider see that clearly distracted them up there in the Gap? Well, I digitally enhanced the series, carefully scanning for anomalies (I'm a government trained Intell Analyst, don't try this with commercially available equipment in a non-secure environment). I noted an image reflected in the windshield of the SUV, so I scanned, cropped, and cleaned up the image. Here it is:

 

Deliverance-01.jpg

 

I think we can cease the speculation. Now I ask you, how the hell is Ride Smart going to prepare you for that?!! I for one cannot blame the rider. You may feel differently.

 

Actually this is a new advertising campaign form BMW.

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I have to wonder if the rider became distracted by the photographer?

..... Surely your point is not to somehow blame it on the photographer!

 

You are correct.

I'm simply suggesting how the rider might have failed.

I'm not sure how you read my observation any other way

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I've rode the dragon last earlier this year and it's one of those places that you have to be very careful not to get caught a bit off guard by fatigue. You go through so many twists and turns that it's easy to simply not pay attention towards the end. Speed is always a factor on that road. When I was there, the LEOs were out in full force. I was going maybe 35 at one point (limit is 30 in that area) and the LEO simply gave me the universal slow down sign. My buddies who were way ahead of me tend to go much faster than I do, so I know they were probably well above 30 in this area.

 

Anyhow, sad event, hope the rider learns to stay in their lane and has a full recovery.

 

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