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NEW ENGINE AT 17K 2006 R1200RT HELP!!


mlb

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Hey guys I need some help. I was ridding my 2006 R1200RT on the interstate from Florida to Kentucky when the engine began to vibrate and the bike would only do 55 mph at wide-open throttle. Limped the bike off the freeway and it appeared from the sound (clunking), vibration and power level that it was only running on one cylinder. Did not see any smoke or leaks. Oil level was full. Filled up about 150 miles before (buddy put the same gas in his bike with no problems). The bike was towed to BMW Motorcycles of Louisville. The dealer investigation is not complete but at this point it shows that the camshaft chain broke and gas in the oil. Can a camshaft chain break and the engine still run? I did not hear a rattling or slapping noise. Has anyone else had this problem? Anybody have any experience with the service department of BMW Motorcycles of Louisville? Other than the engine anything else I should replace (clutch)? The bike has only 17k. I would like to keep the bike; any experience with BMW’s extend warranty? I am back in Michigan and the bike is in Kentucky. Any help, advice or comments are welcome.

 

 

Thanks,

Mark

 

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Well, I suspose only one of the cam shaft chains can break leaving you with half of a very unhappy engine. You may also need new valves and piston if they collided. The gas in the oil is probably gas that was shot into the cylinder while the valves were stuck open. I would imagine the intake valves are the ones stuck open. If that is the case you were lubricating you piston with gasoline, not good and you may need a new cylinder. If it were me, I'd want a whole new engine. Timing chains should not break at 17kmi.

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The cam chain on one side can break and the motor still run on the one side, I've never had it happen but I have broke damn near everything else at on time or another, and in my job seen some wierd stuff. As far as replacing the engine unless the cases are split it can be much less damage than you seem to think, I've cocked a piston near half way over in the bore and only had to replace the assembly on the one cylinder. Besides that the bike should be under warrantee so other than being a pain and costing some time they should fix it.

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And what of the tensioner? Did it work its way apart and into the sump? I'd be worried about your cylinder walls and not the piston, but the rings are prob junk.

Def need new valve gear 1 side.

 

Make sure they keep you updated on a rebuild process, before they do the work.

 

Good luck. MB>

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Can a camshaft chain break and the engine still run?

Yes, on one side. Each side has it's own separate cam chain.

 

Has anyone else had this problem?

Anyone is a big word, but certainly broken cam chains are highly unusual on the boxer motor.

 

Other than the engine anything else I should replace (clutch)?

The whole engine may not even need to be replaced - new chain, any valve and/or piston damage repaired, flushed, etc. and it should be good to go. The clutch would be unaffected.

 

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Bummer of a situation, Mark. This sort of catastrophic engine failure is very rare on the Hexheads, though no doubt you are not the first. I would wait and get more information from the dealer investigation and take it from there.

 

Keep us posted.

 

Jay

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3 yr 36,000 mile standard warranty. I would think you would still be in warranty, but I guess it could be close on the time. Even if you are just out of warranty, I think there is a good chance they will cover you. Ask them.

 

Jan

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Well I can't talk to the mechanical portion of your post but I can attest to the fine service department and personnel of Louisville BMW. I had a mechanical failure kind of similar to yours at 661 miles. On Saturday afternoon, unannounced, I showed up and the bike was on the lift within 15 minutes. When it was diagnosed needing engine parts they took me to the airport to rent a car, ordered the parts which arrived on Wednesday, did the repair and the bike was ready Thursday morning! Ya can't beat that!

Good luck on yours!

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The dealer states it will be two weeks before they can complete the engine disassembly. Once the engine is dissembled they have to call BMW before they can tell me if they are going to rebuild or replace the engine. If they replace the engine it will be two to three months before I get the bike back. It is totally unacceptable to have the bike down for two to three months. I am very disappointed that they are considering rebuilding the engine. When I voiced my concern to the dealer about the engine being rebuilt I was told to call customer assistance. The bike only has 17k. I love the bike but after this I will never ride a BMW again. It is not the fact that it broke (that can happen to any bike) but the fact that they could care less about my situation. I trying to remain positive but the only thing premium about my BMW experience has been the price tag.

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Stuff breaks, people fix it. It’s a bit over expectations to expect a dealer to have parts on hand to repair this rather unique failure. And I’m betting that like most any shop, they have other work queued up before your bike arrived at their door. They are saying they will disassemble and evaluate it. Seems like a perfectly reasonable approach to me. After repair it will be under warranty for another 19K, easily plenty of time for any additional related issues to surface.

 

Your disappointment that this failure happened understandable, but so far it seems like they are being quite acceptable.

 

 

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Stuff breaks, people fix it. It’s a bit over expectations to expect a dealer to have parts on hand to repair this rather unique failure. And I’m betting that like most any shop, they have other work queued up before your bike arrived at their door. They are saying they will disassemble and evaluate it. Seems like a perfectly reasonable approach to me. After repair it will be under warranty for another 19K, easily plenty of time for any additional related issues to surface.

 

Your disappointment that this failure happened understandable, but so far it seems like they are being quite acceptable.

 

 

Acceptable? Two weeks to disassemble and evaluate - in my opinion this is totally unacceptable. We're talking about a customer that bought a premium product that suffered a catastrophic failure during the warranty period.

 

Two weeks to obtain replacement parts and get back on the road might be acceptable, but not the timeline given above IMHO.

 

Lemon Law time, BMW needs to understand consumers have rights and they need to be reasonable with regard to warranty repair.

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It should take maybe a day to determine the extent of the damage. I can understand them not being able to drop everything and do it the same day, but I really can't understand two weeks. If the dealer is so busy that they can't even make room for major warranty claims any sooner than that then that's pretty poor customer service regardless of the reason. And if the engine does have to be rebuilt (as in cases split, etc.) I don't consider 19k enough time for all potential problems to show. Any major problems should show pretty quickly, but a marginal assembly issue could easily take longer than this to become apparent (plus how much time is left on the warranty, especially after a 2-3 month wait?). Personally I would press for an engine replacement, unless there's some way to fix the problem without splitting the cases.

 

BTW... cam chain breakage? :eek: I don't think I've ever heard of that happening on an oilhead/hexhead and would be very curious as to the reason.

 

 

 

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BTW... cam chain breakage? I don't think I've ever heard of that happening on an oilhead/hexhead and would be very curious as to the reason.

 

Like you, I don't think I have ever heard of a similar failure.

 

Maybe they really meant the cam chain rails..... While not a frequent failure it isn't totally unknown. That can leave the bike running, poorly, and if the rails fragmented, this can lead to main bearing / big end rod bearing oil starvation as the plastic pieces can block the oil pickup, at least on the early bikes.

 

If that's the case and if being fixed on BMW's $$$ I would want a new engine. If it was on my bike and on my $$$ I would consider rebuilding just for the experience. Even then, a new 'used' engine would be cheaper.

 

Stan

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You mite check to see what your state Lemon Law is on this,,,I would defiantly get a loaner from BMW till they fix the bike,,,,

Lemon laws are typically applicable to repeated failed attempts (often three) to correct the same problem. So far, not the situation in this particular scenario.

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You mite check to see what your state Lemon Law is on this,,,I would defiantly get a loaner from BMW till they fix the bike,,,,

Lemon laws are typically applicable to repeated failed attempts (often three) to correct the same problem. So far, not the situation in this particular scenario.

Yes,But I think there is a time factor to,,,3 month,s to fix??????
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I belive some states do have a maximum amount of time you can be without your vehicle for warranty work. It might be around 90 or 100 days. I've heard stories owners mysteriously getting a loaner car just as they got close to that limit.

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You mite check to see what your state Lemon Law is on this,,,I would defiantly get a loaner from BMW till they fix the bike,,,,

Lemon laws are typically applicable to repeated failed attempts (often three) to correct the same problem. So far, not the situation in this particular scenario.

 

Most states include a time factor - typically 30 days. This is aggregate time during the warranty period in California, Washington and Arizona (the states with lemon laws I'm familiar with). This is not a defensible position, 30 day claims when verified (time down and due to defect - not damage or abuse) always go in favor of the consumer.

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Paul In Australia

Fins another dealer. This sort of attitude, in my experience is not usual.

Why don't you give BMW a ring yourself and discuss?

regards

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russell_bynum
Stuff breaks, people fix it. It’s a bit over expectations to expect a dealer to have parts on hand to repair this rather unique failure. And I’m betting that like most any shop, they have other work queued up before your bike arrived at their door. They are saying they will disassemble and evaluate it. Seems like a perfectly reasonable approach to me. After repair it will be under warranty for another 19K, easily plenty of time for any additional related issues to surface.

 

Your disappointment that this failure happened understandable, but so far it seems like they are being quite acceptable.

 

 

Acceptable? Two weeks to disassemble and evaluate - in my opinion this is totally unacceptable. We're talking about a customer that bought a premium product that suffered a catastrophic failure during the warranty period.

 

If you scheduled a service in advance and were given an estimate on when your bike would be done, would you be OK with them bumping you to work on another customer's bike who came in after you?

 

 

I can totally understand a 2-week delay before they can get to the bike. If they've got 2 weeks of work on the books ahead of you, you wait.

 

The 2-3 month estimate to get parts is painful, but might just be how it is. If this is a very rare failure, then it is unreasonable to expect there to be spare parts to fix it laying around at the dealerships, or even in the warehouses. That means going to Germany for the parts and there's lots of delay in that system.

 

It sounds like they're giving worst-case estimates. If they get ahead, and get to the bike sooner, great. If they get in there and ID the parts that are needed, and those parts are in one of the US warehouses, then things could happen MUCH faster. It's almost always better to set customer expectations based on the worst case and then delight them by doing better than the other way around.

 

OTOH, it certainly wouldn't hurt to call around to the other dealers in the area and see if any of them can do better.

 

And if it does turn into 2-3 months, then you may be able to convince BMW to make a few of your payments for you (if you've financed the bike) or make some other consideration for your inconvenience.

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ShovelStrokeEd

Another point on this.

 

You are dealing with a major warranty issue here. The dealer is nearly powerless under these conditions. He will have to dismantle the engine, at least far enough to determine some sort of parts listing and then await an inspection by the regional service guy who is probably on a rotating schedule that won't have him in the area for awhile. Then, and only then, can the parts order process begin. A replacement engine may be no faster than getting the individual parts for a rebuild if there isn't one in the country. There may not even be one in Germany as they are not going to pull one from the production line. It might have to go in as an assembly order to be built on either a special line or in the normal course of production.

 

They ain't gonna rent a Gulfstream V to fly it over here either, it will go on the boat with the next batch.

 

Sorry for your bad luck so far but them's the reality of modern manufacturing.

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I can hardly believe what I'm reading. How can it be acceptable to have your bike down like this? No competent workshop books 100% of their available time. You must allow for walk-ins and emergencies, this is service management 101.

 

I've spent my entire adult lifetime working for a European auto manufacturer and I'll tell you, this would never be accepted in the automotive world.

 

In this day of $20,000+ motorcycles, why should we accept anything less than is expected of an auto dealer? Does Honda have one set of rules for car dealers and another for motorcycle dealers? (I don't know, just asking). Apparently BMW does because if your 330 is in the shop they don't set aside until they find time to look at it, then await a regional rep to come and authorize work. This is BS and needs to be fixed.

 

EDIT: Rant over...

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I am back in Michigan and the bike is in Kentucky.

 

Ok I'm not a glass half full type but here is a shot at optimism...

 

Michigan. Late fall. Your riding for the season is pretty much done.

 

After about 3 or 4 months your bike will be repaired and it's almost spring again!

 

It's not your problem at the moment it's BMWs! Enjoy the stress free ownership for the time being. :thumbsup:

 

How was that for sunny side up? :/

 

 

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You mite check to see what your state Lemon Law is on this,,,I would defiantly get a loaner from BMW till they fix the bike,,,,

Lemon laws are typically applicable to repeated failed attempts (often three) to correct the same problem. So far, not the situation in this particular scenario.

Yes,But I think there is a time factor to,,,3 month,s to fix??????

 

In VA a dealer (or agent of the manufactuer) has three chances to fix a problem if it is non safety and one chance for a safety item. If they don't you can enact Lemon Law (aka new vehicle warranty enforcement act) and get your money back, including any interest on the loan, or get a replacement vehicle. There is no time limit. They do get to deduct for millage. At the time I sat on a jury for a lemon law case it was 17 cents a mile. Even if you have run out of the warranty and are still having the same problem, provided it was reported under warranty, you can still enact it. But you must document doucment document!

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I can hardly believe what I'm reading. How can it be acceptable to have your bike down like this? No competent workshop books 100% of their available time. You must allow for walk-ins and emergencies, this is service management 101.

Oh contrary, no dealer shop under-books their shop to allow for whatevers and as a result has techs sitting around with nothing to do and still be paying them. Books are at 110% of capacity if they want to make enough money to stay in business. Welcome to the reality of modern day economics.

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I can hardly believe what I'm reading. How can it be acceptable to have your bike down like this? No competent workshop books 100% of their available time. You must allow for walk-ins and emergencies, this is service management 101.

Oh contrary, no dealer shop under-books their shop to allow for whatevers and as a result has techs sitting around with nothing to do and still be paying them. Books are at 110% of capacity if they want to make enough money to stay in business. Welcome to the reality of modern day economics.

 

Sorry but I must disagree,

 

Bear in mind that I'm in dealership service departments (auto) at least 4 days a week. No competent service manager allows 100% of available time to be booked daily. Trust me on this, it's basic to the business.

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Ok, Lets see. You have owned this bike for how long and NOW you show up here with some unrealistic claims??

Sorry sir but who are you?? Profile?? Maybe you are just sturring the pot. In this day of misinformation and wild claims about everything how do we know this is a true event??

Other tips , Always carry a match. Trade it in. Nobody ever said this sport is cheap regardless of brand. in or Out, In costs money.

It could be worse, accident with injury and a crashed bike.

Maybe you should worry about your final drive too. :dopeslap:

Yes, I am an old sarcastic SOB!!!

 

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If I compare this to car ownership I think I'd find this unacceptable too (and my BMW MC cost as much as my personal car). If I were told my personal car had failed under warranty and that it would be out of commission for 3 months (with no replacement vehicle), I'd be speed dialing some lawyer right now. I don't care if the vehicle is manufactured in Borneo, there's no excuse for a 3 month delay with no loaner.

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ShovelStrokeEd

Whoa! Let's back down here a little.

 

First off, the bike is not at home or in the original dealer's service department. The trip started in Florida and the bike is in Louisville, KY. I don't know why the dealer would be expected to drop everything, including already scheduled (profitable) service work.

 

Second, Zoom, I nearly nuked your post. It contributes nothing to the discussion and the tone is quite inflammatory. Everyone has a right to express their opinions and ask questions here and they don't need tenure to do it.

 

 

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IndianaHarvey

That's why I have more than one bike, in case one breaks I still have another to ride. I live not more than 15 miles from the Louisville BMW dealer and I can tell you that they are very busy year round because they have people from at least 3 states come to them for service work. I've had some service work done there, transmission seal and clutch replacement under warranty on my 05 R1200RT, and they did a good job of it. As others have said, be thankful this happened late in the riding season. I bent a wheel on a Chicago pot-hole back in the late 80s on K100RS in June and the bike was down for a month waiting on a wheel to arrive from Germany.

You might want to talk to the dealer or BMW about trading it in or maybe now's the time for that second bike.

 

Good luck,

Harvey

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Sorry Ed, I'm not sure what you saw as inflamitory in my post. I wasn't aiming at anyone in particular rather stating my opinion as to how I'd feel if this happened to me. I agree it's not a dealer problem and made no statement to that effect. I reiterate, if this happened to my Honda Element I would be hopping mad. I'll sit on my hands now.

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Sorry Ed, I'm not sure what you saw as inflamitory in my post. I wasn't aiming at anyone in particular rather stating my opinion as to how I'd feel if this happened to me. I agree it's not a dealer problem and made no statement to that effect. I reiterate, if this happened to my Honda Element I would be hopping mad. I'll sit on my hands now.

 

Check Ed's post again. I think he was referring to a post (immediately above yours) by "MRZOOM".

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I'm with you mrzoom. The claim is dubious at best. I am automatically supicious when the poster has no info in thier profile. I think we have someone stirring the pot after it has been filled with gasoline and set ablaze.

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Best quote ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

"I absolutely LOVE my RT, but I sometimes feel like I'm in a disfunctional relationship with BMW NA/Motorrad . . . but he's SO nice when he's not drunk, and he only beats me on the weekends now."

 

Linky

 

 

....

 

....

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Hey everyone, thank you for the feedback. I want to clarify that the reason I have lost all faith in BMW is the all-encompassing lack of concern for my situation. This developed not because the motorcycle had a serious engine failure at extremely low miles but the fact that I am the only one concerned about the future of my bike. I understand that a service department has work other than just my bike but they have a responsibility to me (the customer) to get my bike fix in a reasonable amount of time. Two weeks just to complete a diagnosis is ABSOLUTELY UNACCEPTABLE. I worked as a technician in a Chevrolet dealer for many years and we often worked extend hours to get a vehicle fixed. I also feel that because the bike left me stranded 500 miles from home and destroyed a vacation that it should be a priority. Also my concern is not what is best and lowest cost for BMW but what is going to produced the most reliable motorcycle (that is what I PAID for). Please keep in mind that this motorcycle is a 2006 model and will be out of warranty in May of 2009. The ridding season in Michigan starts about late April so I will have very little time to get any concerns fixed. The cost to me when this is over will be two-night stay in a hotel, rental car (to get home when the bike broke), 1000 MILES on my personal vehicle, and trailer rental so if BMW has to spend a little money to make me happy that it what they should do (that is what I PAID for).

 

 

 

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mlb,

What additional discussions with the dealer or BMWNA have you had?

In your situation, I can understand venting, but are you actively doing anything to attempt to resolve the issue?

 

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Don_Eilenberger

Dear MLB - I've read exactly the same posting from you on the BMW-MOA Hexhead forums (and I replied to it..) Your last posting is word for word (and misspelling for misspelling) exactly the same as the MOA posting.

 

Is there a reason for this?

 

Call me curious in NJ..

 

Link to MOA thread (have to be a member to read it..): http://www.bmwmoa.org/forum/showthread.php?t=30577

 

 

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I work a second job at a BMW dealershhip.

My bike is in, unscheduled, and I'm in my second week of waiting.

It happens.

 

Car service booking, yep, truth in lending there.

My daughter brought her car into dealer last week.

They "diagnosed" a tie rod end replacement, new tires, etc...

I told her to call, tell them tp do the tie rod, we'd then pick it up.

They said they would not just do that, because it was a "safety issue".

So they in fact refused to do service we authorized them to do.

Told 'em fine, we'll just pick it up and they wanted a huge fee (in the fine print you sign) for "diagnosis".

Just write on the invoice that you refused to do service I authorized, I told them, and I'll pay your diagnosis fee.

Picked up car, no fee.

Took elsewhere, and lo and behold, tie rod loose, not needing replacement,

So yep, auto dealerships are the epitome of reputable operation. :/

It depends on time and place, with anything.

 

This bike has a warranty, it is being worked on under warranty.

Be glad you bought a BMW.

Any other bike and you'd be out of warranty at this point, I believe,

Hope it gets resolved soon.

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Ah Tim, once again the voice of reason. :grin:

 

I was enjoying the heart breaking story tho! Now you've ruined my day. :)

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russell_bynum
Two weeks just to complete a diagnosis is ABSOLUTELY UNACCEPTABLE.

 

So...when you've got your bike in for service that you scheduled months in advance, is it OK with you if they bump you in order to work on my bike when I just showed up out of the blue?

 

 

I also feel that because the bike left me stranded 500 miles from home and destroyed a vacation that it should be a priority.

 

But you aren't stranded, right? You're back at home.

 

If you were actually stranded, then I might expect them to make some extra efforts to get to it....especially if it's probably a a fairly quick fix.

 

You're not stranded...you're back at home. And this probably isn't going to be a quick and easy fix. It'll probably involve a lot of the dealership's time going back and forth with BMW to make sure you are properly taken care of. There will most likley be a long delay getting parts since they're not normal failure items that are kept in the warehouses. Once the parts arrive, the repair will likely be a lengthy process as well.

 

This royally sucks for you, but from what you've told us, the dealership hasn't done anything wrong.

 

I would also advise/remind you that how BMW handles this warranty claim is going to be largely determined by what the dealership is willing to do when they go to bat for you. If you're understanding and polite, they're a bunch more likely to put in the effort to really make sure you're taken care of than if you're a pain in the ass. This is where a relationship with the dealer can really work in your favor and it's why, when my bike was in warranty, I was at the dealership at least once a month and bought stuff there that would have been easier (and sometimes a bit cheaper) to buy online. When I needed them to go to bat for me when my final drive failed, I was "that guy who comes in at least once a month and buys stuff." instead of "That guy who badmounths us on the internet." and I was treated very well. I realize this is not your local dealer, so there's really no way you could have an established relationship with them, but taking the time to build some good will is likely to pay off in the end. The dealership is on your side in this deal.

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You mite check to see what your state Lemon Law is on this,,,I would defiantly get a loaner from BMW till they fix the bike,,,,

Lemon laws are typically applicable to repeated failed attempts (often three) to correct the same problem. So far, not the situation in this particular scenario.

 

exactly....I hate people just throwing out the lemon law when they have no idea whast they are talking about. READ the WARRANTY book and you will have the facts on what you lemon. AND it's a arbitration thing, not just an automatic give you your money back thing.

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