KGT Engine #2 Dead on the way to Paonia

[Limecreek]

I can’t believe it, but I’ve had my second engine failure in 7 months. I won’t know the particulars until BMW takes a look at the motor, but I can tell you that it seized up on me as I was crossing the last bit of the Texas panhandle on the way to Paonia, CO. BMW oil was and still is at the proper level; coolant the same.

 

The 600 mile service was done by the dealer (on the replacement engine) and I haven’t had any complaints about the replacement motor with the exception of the power. It just didn’t seem quite as peppy as the first engine. My dealer dismissed the complaint and pointed to the fact that the engine was still breaking in and would loosen up as the miles rolled by. Ok, got it. It didn’t burn a drop of oil after the 600 service. In short everything seemed fine and my confidence was restored.

 

I left for Paonia at 3:00 on Wednesday morning and my destination for the day was Gunnison. I was making good time and was having better than average luck dodging the thunderstorms that were popping up all the through north Texas. The air had that clean just rained smell to it and the smell of the recently cut hay fields only added to the joy of the trip that was welling up inside me. This has been a particularly tough year at work; the kind of year that has one second guessing the direction of their career and life’s work. But, I knew this trip to Colorado was ahead of me and it gave me something to look forward to; pulling me through and out of all the corporate BS of the last several months.

 

Rolling into Amarillo an hour ahead of schedule I stopped at a Chevron along I-40 to top off the tank, stretch my legs and check in with my wife, Sandi. It was 10:50 and I had knocked out a little over 500 miles. The best part of this leg of the trip was just ahead of me once I cleared the Texas panhandle. My break was short and I was off again. The KGT is not known for great gas mileage, but I was please to find I was getting 40 mpg when I ran the calculations at my last fill up.

 

Dumas came and went and then Dalhart. I could see the NM boarder on my 276C and was really getting excited when I notice a slight hesitation as I was passing a string of RV’s. I looked at my temp gage and notice it was above normal when it had been running below the half way point all day long. I looked again because I could actually see it rising and then I heard what I thought was something wrong with one of my fans. I ducked down below my windscreen to hear it better and realized (oh, no) it was the engine and not the fan. Another quick look at the temp gage that was now at the top of the range was all I needed to know. I pulled in the clutch and seconds later she seized up. I pulled off the road and then pushed the bike out onto the dirt median, pulled her up on the center stand and then stood there in utter disbelief for a couple of minutes. Trip over…$hit!

 

Ball cap on, cell phone plugged in, good signal, camel back full, and you know this wasn’t a crash it was a breakdown….I paused for a moment and offered thanks to my maker that it wasn't something worse. BMW roadside answered and as I was giving rep #1 my info when a couple of BMW’s whizzed by waving at me as they passed. They turned around and as they were heading back in my direction I recognized Connie and Dave Schluter from Dallas, Texas. Dave knew about engine #1 failure and shook his head in disbelief. Dave and Connie were great. They stayed with me, helped me and consoled me until the wrecker came. Dave help me push the GT onto the truck and then they were on their way to Taos.

 

I spent the night in Dumas, Texas (yippee!), found a rental trailer and called in a favor. My new son in law drove 600 miles and picked me up yesterday. We loaded the dead GT into the U-Haul and got home around 11:00 last night.

 

I’m leaving for Lone Star in a few minutes where I’ll drop the bike off. I don’t want this bike any longer, at all. I’m finished with this one. I’ll ask BMWNA for a replacement and see how they respond. A new engine is not going to work for me this time. At this point it’s either a new bike or I am heading for a new brand.

[Dennis Andress]

Pulling the clutch in just before the engine siezed was a nice save, too bad it came from experience. Sorry to hear your much needed trip got messed up.

[Laney]

I'm sorry to hear you had another big breakdown -- and really curious to hear what they find when they take it apart. The good news is that you were paying attention and it didn't seize while you were running down the road at a high speed. I wouldn't have much trust in a bike that had the same major failure twice in a short time, either.

 

Be sure and let me know if they tell you all your problems are happening because you ride like a girl...

[SageRider]

That really sucks. Even worse at the beginning of a trip rather than the end.

Glad you were able to pull the clutch before siezure.

Good luck. I know my faith in my RT was severly damaged after just one major failure. The second failure a month later(which possibly could have been self induced, giving BMW parts the benefit of the doubt) kept me from taking the BMW on any trip longer than about 100 miles for a year.

Best wishes obtaining a new bike. I would push for the same if I was in your place.

[swmckinley]

I don't what to say to cheer you up except I have a bike you can borrow until we get this mess cleared up. As per our phone conversation yesterday while you were on the side of the road, get a new KGT from BMWNA, don't let talk you into to repairing that one again.

[270]

 

Somebody PLEASE help restore my faith in the brand I have loved for years! Although somewhat obscure, these failures, espcially when they happen TWICE to the same guy make me very nervous.

 

Are BMW's no longer the 200K mile+ machines that legend tells us they are? Are they only good for 50-60K before a final drive, drive shaft, transmission or motor blows?

 

This suggestion isn't to Greg, its rhetorical really...I'm not sure if I'd want a new bike from BMW...I think I'd want my money back so that I might buy a brand I'd have more confidence in!

[Limecreek]

...it was my error. Mike at Lone Star took me out to the shop and showed me how the oil filter had spun off. I've serviced my own bikes for years now and I can't believe how stupid and preventable this error is.

 

I always torque the filter, but thinking back to this last oil change (2 weeks ago) I remember thinking how strange the filter felt as I torqued it down. Mike couldn't find the O Ring to the filter.

 

Here is what I think happened. The O ring fell off or was't there. I didn't catch it and installed the filter, torque it down, but it later backed off due to the missing filter O ring??

 

I'm sick over this one gang. This is major $$$ to fix and it may be the end of my moto habit for a while.

 

I just told my wife that I gave back every cent I've saved doing my own service over the last few year in one stupid move.

[270]

Where did all the oil go???

 

You just made feel better, but net/net, I feel worse as I feel horrible for you!!!

 

Wanna learn how to rebuild a K-Bike bottom end now?

[Marty Hill]

Greg,

 

Really sorry about this. Could happen to anyone...horrible!

[David]

Somebody PLEASE help restore my faith in the brand I have loved for years!

 

I'm not sure I can do that. I'd feel comfortable heading out on a 10,000 mile ride, but definitely not 11,000.

 

Greg, very sorry to hear this. I'm getting ready to sell my Buell Blast. Any interest?

[270]

Somebody PLEASE help restore my faith in the brand I have loved for years!

 

I'm not sure I can do that. I'd feel comfortable heading out on a 10,000 mile ride, but definitely not 11,000.

 

That's cold blooded!

 

 

Greg, very sorry to hear this. I'm getting ready to sell my Buell Blast. Any interest?

 

A worthy replacement, no doubt!

[ericfoerster]

Greg,

 

Sorry for the bad news. I hate that it ruined a needed vacation.

 

As for the bike, I agree at this point a new motor will not cut it.

 

Just a guess here. The KRS/KGT is done after this year and I'll bet you they are are using all the remaining parts that have been sitting around. Maybe some castings that are not right or stuff that might be touch out of spec.

Just my own feelings here.

 

Better luck with BMWNA than we are having.

 

 

Edit: I just read the whole thread. Sorry for the bad news.

At least you owned up to it.

[ELP_JC]

...it was my error.

Ouch, but kudos to you for being open about your mistake. The same thing can happen when you forget to remove the old gasket, and 'double up'. With the oil filter seal broken, your oil basically recirculates in the sump, with very little lubrication and cooling.

You know what's the good thing about these incidents? That YOU caused it man. How many things happen to us that somebody else caused? That's much more maddening to me than self-inflicted ones. We have nobody to blame but us. Live and learn. I recently lost about $300K due to a stupidity (trusting a builder friend blindly), if that makes you feel better. Bite the bullet, rebuild the sucker, and get back to the sport you love buddy; DON'T GIVE UP on it man. And keep the bike

[ShovelStrokeEd]

Greg,

It may not be as horrible as you envision. Surely, you have lost a rod or main bearing and possibly a crankshaft.

 

You can tear this motor down to the bare block without removing it from the frame. Since it seized, it might not have spun a bearing yet and, in that case, the block can be saved or it could be a rod bearing just needing a new rod.

 

The parts are not horribly expensive and certainly a new short block could get you back up and running. I would also look around for a crashed bike to source the parts from. You might just luck out. I'd be willing to bet there is a short block up in Laney's neck of the woods you can get cheap. Strip out the crank and bearings, use your old pistons and block and you could be back on the road in short order. Check with a couple of the bigger dealers. They sometimes do warranty engine swaps on these things due to chronic leaks. Nothing wrong with the internals, just a shifted casting/poor block machining. There is a source for the parts you need to get back on the road.

[Paul Mihalka]

SORRY!

How about finding a bent/totaled K1200RS/GT (even a Lt for a nice torquey engine) and plug the engine into your bike?

[Limecreek]

The damage estimate is in. I'll need a new crank, rods and bearings, plus labor of course. $2800 out the door, ouch, but much less than a new motor which would send the total over $9,000.

 

So basically this turned out to be a $2,800 oil change.

 

I wonder if anyone will attend any future tech days at my house??

 

Looks like it will be 4 weeks before I'll have her back in my possession. Until then I'll be riding Steve's RST.

 

Thanks Steve!

[ShovelStrokeEd]

Steve,

Just don't let him change your oil as a thank you.

 

Greg,

Glad to hear its not too bad. You might want to check the top end for any sign of damage to the cam bearings. They are plain bearings, actually cylinder head. Just a precaution. The head has to come off for the crank change anyway.

[Limecreek]

Ed, thanks I'll ask that they inspect and replace if needed. Man, what an expensive lesson....

 

Mike at Lone Star was great. He mentioned this same thing happened to another customer 2 weeks ago and had even tripped up one of their mechanics, but I know he had to think I was a major dumb ass and was just being nice.

 

I'll continue to do my own service, mostly because I enjoy it and not so much for what I save. I am also determined to see my blue whale (GT) roll over 100K. I've got too much invested at this point in the way of $$ and dignity.

[Limecreek]

I was just thinking that this little stunt should earn me my own nick name.

 

Let me start off...how about O Ring.

 

Other suggestions?

[MattS]

Quick Lube

[ShovelStrokeEd]

Be careful what you wish for, Greg.

[Dennis Andress]

Oiler...

[ericfoerster]

"wrench"

 

 

Its all in the Love brother

[Boffin]

Slick

 

Cya, Andy

[SageRider]

Expensive oil change, but on the bright side the faith in the bike should be restored. I'd much rather do unto myself than have poor design/manufacturing do unto me!

Amazing that you didn't go down in your own oil.

Good luck getting back on the road soon.

[James Clark]

Amazing that you didn't go down in your own oil.

 

 

The filter is inside the sump on bricks.

 

(See, they can steal ideas from Guzzi.)

[SageRider]

Ah...

Thank you for the education

[impilot]

I was just thinking that this little stunt should earn me my own nick name.

 

Let me start off...how about O Ring.

 

Other suggestions?

 

Or....how about..... nO Ring

 

Sorry, couldn't help myself.

 

John

[ELP_JC]

Other suggestions?

Mr. BadWrench

Honestly, no need for that buddy. If you do it again, then you wouldn't even had to ask <he he>. Glad you took it with humor. I had to do the same; no need to depress ourselves over money. Have a great weekend.

[Laney]

I was just thinking that this little stunt should earn me my own nick name.

 

Let me start off...how about O Ring.

 

Other suggestions?

 

 

How about...

 

Wrenches Like a Girl?

 

That really is the toughest way I can imagine to have your faith restored in BMWs. I'm glad to hear you don't need the whole $9K+ plus engine transplant.

 

I hope you get back on the road soon!

[ShovelStrokeEd]

Greg,

Something has been bothering me and now I know what it is.

 

Where was the f*^&^ing low oil pressure light? Did it activate and you didn't notice? It is supposed to be there for this very situation. Or is its position in the oil flow path such that the pump was able to provide sufficient pressure to keep it from activating while not enough to supply the bearings? Poor design that. Something to look into before firing the bike with the new parts.

[jrbldr]

I have often wondered if I would see the low oil pressure light in time, especially if it is bright out, and/or using the dark tinted visor. On a bike at speed, one is looking so far ahead, and scanning for danger, with only an occasional glance at the instuments. With a catastrophic loss of oil pressure there is only a few seconds, and as you suggest, it may not have even lit, while the damage was being done.

[Paul Mihalka]

By his description Greg was looking a lot at the oil temp gauge. With eyes concentrating at one thing when quickly looking down, it is easy to miss a small thing, like a oil pressure warning light.

[Calvin (no socks)]

Greg, don't beat yourself up over this. I work on cars and see alot of this, missing "O" rings, 2 "O" rings, etc. The oil light comes on after the damage is done. Low oil pressure at idle is one thing, at speed, damage is swift.

I'm going in the garage right now to count my old fiters and "O" rings. That explains the second engine, what about the first?...... Was it also after a recent oil change?

As far as the Nickname thing goes, after working in the same garage for 26 years. You earn your nickname, eg. one fellow hits his head all the time = "Lumpy".

 

High engine temp = "ten bars".

[Limecreek]

The oil light didn't come on or I just didn't notice it. It all happened so fast and I was concentrating on the water gage and the noise from what I thought was coming from the fans.

[Limecreek]

Was it also after a recent oil change?

 

Calvin, I've been thinking a lot about that. I don't want to believe that I could make such a basic error twice, but here are the facts about engine #1. Oil change on 12/12, failure on 12/19. I have to believe Lone Star would have caught that one as easily as they caught the filter problem on #2.

 

One other thing that Mike at Lone Star told me. He doesn't pay attention to the 11 Nm of torque spec'd for the filter, instead he tightens it one full revolution after the gasket contacts the base.

 

I've learned much from this expensive lesson. To help prevent any future maintenance excursions I'm developing several checklists to prevent this kind of human error going forward. Checking boxes on a simple task list may look silly to some but I need some kind of a prevention plan short of taking it to the dealer for basic service.

[ShovelStrokeEd]

Gregory,

 

Hardly silly at all to use check lists. I can think of no competent technicion who does not use one in one form or another. I use them all the time as I work on a variety of equipment and performance of same depends on all the items in a list being properly done.

 

Routine stuff like oil changes and such benefit from a systematic approach just as much as the more complex tasks. I will certainly verify the old gasket coming off with the old filter and the new gasket in place as a result of your unfortunate experience. Thanks for helping us all.

[David]

How about "Screwed without Lube"?

[Limecreek]

How about "Screwed without Lube"?

 

Not bad, but I thought quick lube pretty much captured what I did wrong.

[ShovelStrokeEd]

Looks like it stuck.

[DangerMoney]

Gregory,

Sorry to hear your trip ended the way it did. A friend of mine said something to me after I had a particularly expensive event take place:

 

"Any problem you can throw money at isn't really a problem."

[ghan]

To help prevent any future maintenance excursions I'm developing several checklists to prevent this kind of human error going forward.

 

Don't forget to include in your checklist a box marked "see doctor about the Alzheimer's", just in case.

[James Clark]

"Any problem you can throw money at isn't really a problem."

 

Your friend must be a Washington bureaucrat.

 

Any problem that can be fixed by throwing money at it isn't a problem.

[SnowDog]

I'll continue to do my own service, mostly because I enjoy it and not so much for what I save.

 

Good for you.

 

Some may let an experience like this shake their confidence. But, look at the bright side. You will probably be the least likely person to make that mistake now.

[A-Red Bill]

Three oil changen suggestions:

 

1. I like to pre-fill the new filter with oil. It surprising just how much oil it will take.

2. After you have pre-filled the filter dip your finger in the fresh oil and coat the O-Ring/gasket. If its not there you will likely notice.

3. Check that the O-Ring/gasket came off with the old filter. All too ofter they will stay with the motor. That can also ruin your day.

[Yeeha! Stephen]

I was just thinking that this little stunt should earn me my own nick name.

 

Let me start off...how about O Ring.

 

Other suggestions?

 

 

Sorry to hear, Greg.

 

I almost posted a thread about Oil Filter O-rings the other day and backed off cause I thought it sounded dopey. I did my first service the other day in prep for TOR and discovered a prob that used to happen to Chevy small blocks.

 

If you aren't careful, when you pull the filter, the old ring stays stuck to the block when you remove the filter. When I worked at my Dad's gas station, we would sometimes pull 3 or 4 old rings out of the oil filter cavity on the old Chevy's.

 

Well, it almost happened on my RT. I ran my finger around the old filter to get a little oil to lube the new o-ring. Yikes! It's not there. Sure enough, get a piece of wire and dig out the old ring. All good to go now.

 

I wish I had said something now. Maybe it would have reminded someone to check one more time. I hate it that your story is the Reminder now.

[R_D]

I just caught up on this thread. What a complete drag.

 

By the way love the new tag "Quick Lube".

[Lone_RT_rider]

I still think Quick lube is much more dignified than Sewer diver. I am really sorry to hear about this Greg. I hope we can all sit around a few beers and laugh about it at Spring Torrey 2006. My heart goes out to you my friend....

 

Shawn

[ELP_JC]

Any updates? When are you getting your bike back, and what warranty do you get from the dealer (just curious)?

And hey, why not put a piston and connecting rod on a base, or something similar? Try to make some art out of your replaced parts. Later.

[Limecreek]

Replacement parts are back ordered and may not be available until the middle of August. On top of that the shop is very busy in July and August. Bottom line...I'm bikeless until the end of August at the least.

 

Stephen, you have no idea how dumb I feel....a frick'in oil filter..duh.

 

Shawn, how did you get your nick name?