Oil Change R1200RT

[ViTaL]

I am planning to change oil in my R1200RT and will use Synthetic and don't plan to change the filter this time, it was changed at the last oil change, 5500 miles ago.

5W50 Synthetic is more commonly available than is 20W50, and is generally cheaper. In my manual it suggests that 20W50 is the preferred oil, but says that 5W50, high quality, synthetic is an acceptable alternative, I plan to use Castrol synthetic 5W50. Any comments or thoughts on my plan?

[blkvelvt]

Why wouldn't you change the filter?

[Jim VonBaden]

Change the filter, and the 5W50 is fine.

 

Jim

[JayW]

I don't know about the 5W-50 viscosity (I personally would stick with 20W-50 during the hot summer months), but leaving the old filter in there is not a good idea. Changing it is quick, easy, and cheap - especially if you use an aftermarket one. Otherwise, you are going to leave behind some dirty oil in at least a partially clogged filter.

 

Jay

[GordonB]

What are the torque values for the filter and the drain bolt? Same as the 1100/1150's?

[Ken H.]

What are the torque values for the filter and the drain bolt? Same as the 1100/1150's?

Yes

[ViTaL]

Hey Ken, thanks for answering the question for me. I don't know, just turn it until it's tight enough!

[Jim VonBaden]

I don't know about the 5W-50 viscosity (I personally would stick with 20W-50 during the hot summer months), but leaving the old filter in there is not a good idea. Changing it is quick, easy, and cheap - especially if you use an aftermarket one. Otherwise, you are going to leave behind some dirty oil in at least a partially clogged filter.

 

Jay

 

Jay,

 

The multigrade oil will work fine in high heat. The 50 part of the 20W50 is the part that counts if the motor gets very warm, which is why I do not think the 5W50 is a bad idea.

 

I agree on the filter, though "partially clogged" may be accurate, if you consider a number like 2-5% as "partially clogged". (Number made up,but likely not far off)

 

Jim

[ViTaL]

Thanks to all who have responded, I appreciate your input. I can't help but think that the oil filter would not be effective, or clogged, even partially, after 5500 miles. Another part of my decision not to change the filter is based on the fact that I know of no after market filters for my bike and the distance to my BMW dealer and the cost of the original part. I have gone with my original plan and will let you know of any problems. Ciao.

[bogthebasher]

K&N makes a filter that works for your bike and as an added bonus the filter has a 17mm nut attached to the end that allows for easy installation and removal. Their marketing material says their Oil Filters are equal to or will exceed all OEM specifications...

 

Available in Canada from Parts Canada for $14.95: www.partscanada.com/catalogue/2008/mcv2/en/pages/0390.html

 

The KN-164 will fit the following bikes including yours:

 

2008 BMW R1200RT 1200

2008 BMW R1200R 1200

2008 BMW R1200GS ADVENTURE 1200

2008 BMW R1200GS 1200

2008 BMW K1200S 1200

2008 BMW K1200GT 1200

2008 BMW HP2 MEGAMOTO 1200

2008 BMW F800ST 800

2007 BMW R1200ST 1200

2007 BMW R1200S 1200

2007 BMW R1200RT 1200

2007 BMW R1200R 1200

2007 BMW R1200GS ADVENTURE 1200

2007 BMW R1200GS 1200

2007 BMW K1200S 1200

2007 BMW K1200R SPORT 1200

2007 BMW K1200R 1200

2007 BMW K1200GT 1200

2007 BMW HP2 MEGAMOTO 1200

2007 BMW HP2 ENDURO 1200

2007 BMW F800ST 800

2007 BMW F800S 800

2006 BMW R1200ST 1200

2006 BMW R1200S 1200

2006 BMW R1200RT 1200

2006 BMW R1200GS ADVENTURE 1200

2006 BMW R1200GS 1200

2006 BMW K1200S 1200

2006 BMW K1200R 1200

2006 BMW K1200GT 1200

2006 BMW HP2 ENDURO 1200

2006 BMW F800ST 800

2006 BMW F800S 800

2005 BMW R1200ST 1200

2005 BMW R1200RT 1200

2005 BMW R1200GS 1200

2005 BMW K1200S 1200

2005 BMW K1200R 1200

2004 BMW R1200GS 1200

[BigAdv]

Thanks to all who have responded, I appreciate your input. I can't help but think that the oil filter would not be effective, or clogged, even partially, after 5500 miles. Another part of my decision not to change the filter is based on the fact that I know of no after market filters for my bike and the distance to my BMW dealer and the cost of the original part. I have gone with my original plan and will let you know of any problems. Ciao.

 

Distance to your dealer, its 63km away. The recomended change interval is 6000mile or 10000km, if you are planning to double up you intervals with the synthetic oil, you should still change the filter at 10k km. but its your bike, and your dollars.

 

Earl

[hopz]

The K&N filter is on national back order.

The part should be available from the people who manufacture it for K&N about the middle of August.

 

Until then you cannot place an order for it since the order process requires it to be in stock to place an order... I know this is sully but trust me I have tried to use logic on the system but it fails...

 

A lot of us are waiting to place our order.

[Albert]

There are numerous on line sources for a replacement BMW filter that will come right to your door. In my opinion, keeping an old filter on an expensive bike for financial reasons is money poorly saved. Good luck with it though.

[Grumpy-ol-Fart]

Filters

 

I'm not going to say much about filters, not because I don't know a little, I was the Senior Test Engineer at Purolator in Fayetteville, NC for several years; but because everyone has an opinion and I don't want to debate. All filters are not created equal, not by a long shot. With all I read about extending oil filter change intervals, let's look at how a filter can accomplish this. There are only 2 ways to make an extended life filter. 1) Additional media; the more square inches, the more contaminate it takes to load it. 2) Selectively filter only particles large enough to be deemed potentially harmful by the engine designers. Fords "Long Life" filters were a perfect example of this. They allowed everything smaller than 40-microns to remain in suspension. Typically, European designed filters are more efficient at smaller micron sizes and load significantly faster. If a filter wasn't designed to provide extended life, then you can rest assured it won't. The filter will end up operating in bypass mode, it's designed to do that to prevent oil starving the engine. That's the same thing as running with no filter at all; actually, it's a little worse than that, but I won't go into details here.

 

Contamination

 

There are 5 main sources of contaminate in internal combustion engines; these are not the only sources, but are the highest and most constant. First, there are irregularities in the surfaces of castings that are manufactured into engine blocks and heads, there are also some particles left behind from machining operations. Some make it all the way through the assembly process only to finally break free as the engine is operated and the metal is repeatedly thermal cycled. These usually only occur early in an engines life, which is why most manufacturers recommend an early initial oil filter change. Second, gasoline is usually contaminated by the distribution through buried piping, subsequent overland transport, and underground storage. This is supposed to be filtered at the point of delivery, but again particles 3-5 microns and smaller usually remain in suspension; these will be delivered into the engine and can be deposited on the wetted surface of the cylinder wall and wiped into the crankcase by the oil rings. Third, all internal combustion engines product carbon as a by-product of combustion. Some of this carbon adheres to the wetted surface of the cylinder wall and is wiped into the crankcase by the oil rings. In fuel injected engines, this carbon is usually very uniform and very small, typically 5-microns and smaller. In carbureted engines, some of these particles become quite large, and only find their way into the crankcase through large oil galleries like those found beneath the intake manifold on V-engines with sealed intake manifolds. Fourth, Intake air, though filtered, contains contaminates. The size of these contaminates is dictated by the air filter. High efficiency filters capture smaller particles but are more restrictive and therefore limit horsepower. High flow filters are less restrictive and capture only larger particles, but result in higher horsepower. In any case, these particles that make it by the air filter make it into the combustion chamber and can be deposited on the wetted surface of the cylinder wall and wiped into the crankcase by the oil rings. Fifth is the by product of mechanical wear. There are iron and aluminum particles present in almost all oil samples analyzed, as well as gasket and bearing materials.

 

The fact is that contamination is being added to the oil constantly as the engine is being operated. Carbon from combustion and silica from the atmosphere are the predominant particulate in used oil. There are other trace contaminates, but these are the big ones; the reason that oil isn't the pretty translucent amber coming out that it was going in. Now rather than argue how significant the contamination in the oil is, after all it's mostly made up of particles 15-microns and smaller, try this. Take a drop of used oil off a dipstick right after shutting the engine off, or even while it's idling and place it on a glass microscope slide. Then place another slide on top of that and move them back and forth against each other and see what you feel.

 

For those of you who have ever made a fine finish on furniture, what is the final finishing step? Powdered pumice and linseed oil; a lot like used motor oil with the particles that make it through the filter.

 

Bearings...and other close tolerance lubricated parts.

 

What happens to your poor bearings while you're motoring down the road? For example sake, you don't need to provide accurate bearing sizes, it only changes the results a little. According to bike test USA, the R1200RT makes approximately 60-lb.ft. of torque at 3500 RPM. The crankshaft stroke is 73-mm, half that is 1.437-1n. or .1198 ft. To generate 60-lb.ft. of torque with an eccentric of .1198-ft. would require an applied force of 500-lb. Assuming a con-rod bearing diameter of 83-mm (or thereabouts), and say a width of around 20-mm; that makes a circumference of 10.27-in. with an overall bearing surface of 8.08-square inches. If you've looked at a worn bearing, there is only wear on the upper and lower halves on about 120-degrees of the bearing surface, the sides of the bearings don't do much. That represents 2/3 of the bearing surface, or 5.39-square inches. The force is only distributed to one side of the bearing at a time, that results in 2.69-square inches at a time. Now the load isn't distributed evenly across the whole surface at once, but calculating that gets real difficult, and I don't have the necessary data anyway. So just for fun, let's play like the force gets distributed evenly across the whole available bearing surface, that results in a pressure of 192 psi.

 

Now, at 3500-RPM, those bearing surfaces see a relative displacement of 1371 feet per minute. At 3500-RPM the RT's doing 65 MPH, or .92 miles/minute. 6000 miles at 65 would take 5520- minutes; the bearings would see 7,567,920 ft. of relative displacement. So nobody averages 65 MPH for an entire oil change. The moral of the story is the bearings see a LOT of relative motion with an abrasive fluid providing lubrication. Would you expect to put 2 pieces of metal on each other, place an oil containing a bunch of very fine abrasive particles in it, push them together at 192-psi, then rub them together about 7 million feet and expect them to survive? I really don't know the answer to that. I know that if you keep polishing on a plated surface, you'll wear the plating off.

 

I paid nearly $20K for my shiny silver R1200RT. I don't care how expensive oil filters and oil are; they are really cheap compared to the cost of any oil related failure. I've maintained this philosophy for a lot of years, and I've never had an oil related failure. I call it insurance. You all can change your oil as frequently or infrequently as you want, it's your bike.

 

Just food for thought.

 

[Redbrick]

"Holy detailed analysis, Batman" .........

 

Welcome Tim and thanks.....Great description...No cheaper filters for me....

 

 

[ragtoplvr]

That was an excellent explanation.

 

I college we did some Mobil 1 experiments on extended drain intervals using the local taxi company.

 

25K miles was no problem for the oil. We ended up changing filters at 7500 miles because of splits in the media. None of these resulted in losing an engine but on the analysis we did see a spike in iron aluminum, copper and silica, there was wear. Every time the spike was caused by a filter failure. They were more common in the winter, I suspect it is because of either moisture absorption or carbon loading as this was way before fuel injection was common. This occurred after 12K miles but to be safe, derate to 7500 max.

 

One more reason to change a filter. If you are a 3K oil changer and the filter is less than 6 months old, you could remove and drain it, and reuse it, over 7500 miles ALWAYS replace.

 

 

[Grumpy-ol-Fart]

I agree that the filter might have additional capacity, if it hasn't been challenged unusually, but there is no guarantee. You have no way of knowing when you encounter a condition that will severely load your filter. And once again, the most expensive filter out there is cheap insurance. I've never re-used a filter, and I wouldn't advocate it...but in theory it could be done. Why buy the best bike on the planet and then take a chance...I don't get it.

[SageRider]

Tim,

Excellent post.

Thank you!

[ViTaL]

Amen! Thanks for that reply, I think that I will do another fast oil and filter change.

I believe that you have submitted something that will benefit all of us. Just when I thought that all was said and done, you submitted a good one! Thanks again.

[JayW]

 

"I'm not going to say much about filters, not because I don't know a little, I was the Senior Test Engineer at Purolator..."

So do you use the BMW filter or the Purolator filter on your own RT?

 

"...Selectively filter only particles large enough to be deemed potentially harmful by the engine designers..."

Isn't this what K&N does with their air filters?

 

So if I understand you correctly, then it is possible to make both a high efficiency AND a high-flow filter by increasing the filter surface area. Right?

 

Thanks for your detailed and credible comments.

 

Jay

 

 

 

 

[Grumpy-ol-Fart]

Efficiency is a very ambiguous term; it's completely determined by the definition of the filter. The screen in your front door is 100% efficient at filtering out bugs...it doesn't do too well keeping out dust, but dust wasn't the intent of the design. I could go on about filter design and efficiency and beta ratio for pages, but that wasn't what you asked.

 

In general, an acceptable definition of an efficient filter would be one that captures at least 98% of the particles that challenge it regardless of particle size. You would want to make sure that no particles larger that 10-microns (in my opinion) made it through the filter. The only way to do this is to make a filter that had no opening passages large enough to allow a particle 10-microns or larger to pass through. 10-microns is only 4 tenths of a thousandth of an inch (.0004)...not a very big opening. These are pretty restrictive. Racing filters would almost be considered a sieve by scientists and filter people, but racers are interested in lasting for comparably short distances before it's acceptable to wear the engine out.

 

So no, you can't design a high efficiency high flow filter; increasing the filter area increases its capacity not flow or efficiency. Durability requires some sacrifice in potential performance. Ultimate performance comes at the sacrifice of some durability. It's a fine dance. You did state a truth, K&N, and most other filter manufacturers that advertise performance allow larger particles to pass than OEM filters. OEM designers consider durability and balance acceptable performance against this. Filters are thoroughly tested by the manufacturers before release. The recommended change intervals are based on the results of these tests.

 

This selective screening is something that seems to be approached differently by different manufacturers. Ford was big on ignoring particles 40-microns and smaller...that's just over 1.5 thousandths of an inch. Typical clearance in a journal bearing is specified at .0015-.003-in. So in theory, a 40-micron particle could fit in most journal bearings without scraping on metal, and the babbit is there to encapsulate those particles that might...in theory. Toyota had a unique approach. They used fairly open low restriction oil filters, but used the tightest air filters I ever tested. The thought here is that the largest particles challenging the engine are airborne. I liked their idea. It seems like all European manufacturers are extremely cautious in both the oil and air filters. They are usually very tight and fairly restrictive.

 

[BucksTherapy]

Call me a geek but I really enjoy reading a concise but detailed, technical explanation of how technology works by someone who ahs been there and done it.

 

Thanks Tim A++

[JMR]

Tim,

That's probably the most informative, understandable, and enjoyable, explanation of oil and filters I've come across...thanks for your post!

Being a 1200RT owner as well, and knowing the level of your expertise, I HAVE to ask... what is your oil and filter of choice?

Thanks again for the excellent posts.

[Grumpy-ol-Fart]

Oh goody....I use OEM air & oil filters and Castrol Syntech 20W-50. I use Mobil 1 75W-140 gear oil. (I'll use Mobil 1 20W-50 if I can't find Castrol when I'm ready for an oil change...it happens sometimes)

 

Not the only oils, just the ones I've grown to trust. The API ratings are the key...API grades are given based on empirical test data, not just arbitrary claims. All equivalent ratings have passed the same wear tests. Whatever trips your trigger is fine as long as it meets or exceeds the manufacturers stated API ratings.

[alimar]

This is the mother of all oil threads. Excellent techno babble lays it out for us all to understand. Bravo!

[bogthebasher]

Tim, your description is just about the best tech post I've seen. It proves once again, there are a lot of like minded riders here - and everyone has another life, another area of expertise... Sharing it here brings huge value for everyone. Cheers.

[Brycesdad]

Tim,

Thank you for sharing your expertise. I too enjoyed reading your explaination of "How It Works".

 

Rick

[Bheckel169]

And to ask one more question which seems to be needed...

What are your thoughts as to when you introduce synthetic oil to your bike; in the beginning, or as I've read various threads here, when the bike reaches the 4,000 mile service date?

Bruce

[GordonB]

I did mine at 6,000 mile service, no problems.

The California Highway Patrol out here also switches there's at 6,000.

[Dave_zoom_zoom]

Thanks for your very insightful post Tim.

 

It is clear you are much more than a Grumpy-ol-Fart.

 

I may not feel exactly the same if your background was with FRAM. But Purolator---WOW! You have my attention.

 

If you wouldn't mind, I'd really be interested in your views on the synthetic media oil filters such as the newer Amsoil products. The concept seems to be that because the fibers are stronger, thy can be smaller. Therefor, there can be more fibers creating more open area with less restriction while maintaining a low micron filtration rating.

 

Am I close? Does this work?

 

Thank You for your considerations!

 

Dave

[Grumpy-ol-Fart]

Synthetic fibers are more uniform than cellulose fibers so the openings in the media can be more uniform. There is usually a lower pressure drop across a synthetic media than for a cellulose media with the same beta rating. One other thing that a filter manufacturer in the US is doing with synthetic media that can't be done with conventional media is: the media packs in conventional filters must have end caps attached at both ends. One is open, the outlet, and the other end is closed. The most effective way currently to do this is to use a formed metal cap which is filled with an oven cured plastic product. There are some filter manufacturers who have switched to paper end caps that are glued in place (the F word)...I've never tested one of these that don't have bypass at one or both ends. One manufacturer on their synthetic media filters is using the same material for the end caps and ultrasonically welding the two pieces together. I have tested a number of these too and so far the results have been terrific, I haven't seen any bypass. In fact I had to destroy the filters to separate the end caps from the media pack.

 

With regard to when to use synthetic oil. This grows a little more grey every year. The cross hatching on the cylinder walls is for holding oil. It doesn't hold a lot, but it doesn't take a lot. The cylinder walls are manufactured, and believe it or not they aren't round; very-very close, but not round. The rings when new don't make a perfect seal in the cylinders until they are worn together to form a good seal. It doesn't take a lot of wear, but it does take some. Synthetic oils tend to prevent the rings from self machining an adequate seat, if that happens; you have slightly lower compression and elevated oil consumption. Now days however, cylinder bores are much closer to round than they used to be; some on high end engines are actually close enough where the manufacturers use synthetic lubricant right out of the box. So it's a tough question to answer with certainty. Here’s what I do with my brand new BMW. The initial ring seating wears very little of the cylinder wall and even less of the base ring material...assuming you keep clean oil in the engine. So just to err on the side of caution, and it seems to work for others I've talked with (and I'm certain others on the board will pipe in here), I wait until the 12000 mile oil change to go to synthetic. I might be wearing the engine ever so slightly more than I need to, but I end up with and engine with decent compression and very low oil consumption.

 

[Bheckel169]

Thank you, Tim. Very helpful. I had an 06 1200 RT and went with the changeover to synthetic at the 6k service (not 4k) but just bought a new R1200 R and in the first 600 miles burned a lot of oil which raised my engine temperature a bit. Your explanation of cylinder shape and rings was very informative. It makes sense to get some wear first before switching to synthetic oil.

Bruce

[Semper_Fi]

Tim - one of the most informative oil threads to date!

 

Very nice presentations - I usually stay away from these discussions due to the variability in answers and opinions

 

Well done and thanks

[Tourbike]

The oil change interval for my Suzuki VStrom DL1000 as stated in the manual is 3500 miles. The manual also says to change the oil filter evry third oil change or every 10,500 miles. Why do the Suzuki engine designers recommend this?

[BigAdv]

The oil change interval for my Suzuki VStrom DL1000 as stated in the manual is 3500 miles. The manual also says to change the oil filter evry third oil change or every 10,500 miles. Why do the Suzuki engine designers recommend this?

 

Because they own shares in the big oil company's.

 

Earl

[Grumpy-ol-Fart]

I've never tested a Suzuki filter, but as I stated there are only 2 ways to build an extended life filter. The first is to add media. Media in flat sheet, before pleating, has a capacity per square inch (or square millimeter) value. That's determined by doing what is called a single pass test. You take a slurry of a known concentration (g/ml), pass it through a flat sheet of filter media until you raise the pressure drop across the filter by 8-psi. You then determine how much contaminate you challenged the media with by multiplying the volume (ml) by the concentration (g/ml)which results in grams of contaminate. You then measure the contamination level of the filtered fluid (by Millipore analysis) and multiply the concentration of the effluent by it's volume. The grams of contaminate divided by the grams of the challenge result in the efficiency of the media, and the difference between the challenge and effluent divided by the area of the media sample give the capacity of the media in g/mm squared. So, the more media you can stick in a filter, the more dirt it will hold; until you put in too much media, then it gets crowded enough to "shadow" the media in adjacent pleats. You know this happens when capacity results go down after adding additional media.

 

The second way is to allow small particles to pass through and only capture the particles the designer deems potentially damaging. As the filter loads with more and more large particles, it actually begins to capture smaller particles because the larger ones are effectively plugging the media. They load fairly quickly at this point and quickly begin to bypass, effectively negating the filter altogether. I've personally never cared for this approach. I like a filter that catches everything and that I have to change often to assure it doesn't get plugged.

 

The oil change intervals and filter performance are determined by the engineers that design the vehicle. Filter manufacturers only design what the customer, the vehicle designer, asks for. The vehicle designer wants to design a product that will serve an acceptable life to the consumer, but that will wear out so the consumer buys another one. That's what pays their salary. I'm a tight-ass. I want to keep one vehicle until I get tired of it, and then sell it because I want another, not because it wore out and needs replacing. Good filters and fresh oil will extend an internal combustion engines life nearly indefinitely. Manufacturers don't want their vehicles to last indefinitely. They want them to last long enough not to piss off the owner.

 

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing...

 

[markgoodrich]

Thanks from me, too, Tim, for the excellent explanations. Like you, I'm not interested in getting into a debate about "best" products, but I do have a question for everyone, related to "which oil, and/or filter:" Back in the day, my auto engines might start burning oil at 50-60,000 miles. More recently, say, in the last 20 years, I've not had any lubrication-related problems with any of the many, many vehicles I've run past 150,000 miles, nor have I heard any friends/acquaintances complain of expensive engine-wear repairs.

 

My question is this: who among us has had an engine repair issue, much less failure, on a BMW engine, and if so, was the culprit an out-of-recommendation oil/filter change interval? Dealer/tech responses would be really helpful.

 

Regarding the OP's question: almost any auto parts store will have a selection of oil filters which will fit your bike. THIS SITE lists a lot of filters which will fit; however, you should be sure to compare the length of the filters, as some, though they'll fit, are much longer, and might create a problem if you hit something. I currently use an aftermarket filter that is a little longer than the OEM, and so far have had no problems with it.

[Dick_at_Lake_Tahoe_NV]

".....if you are planning to double up you intervals with the synthetic oil, you should still change the filter at 10k km. but its your bike, and your dollars."

 

I don't know why this "Old Wives Tale" persists. My 2000 Porsche Boxster recommends changing the Oil filter every-other Oil change, and my 2003 Acura MDX recommends every-other Oil change as well. In modern engines, it's not that the filter gets "Clogged", but rather that Oil has to be changed at specific "minimum" intervals, because most of it's additives have been used up. Anyone that has used "engine Oil analysis" has found that usually "Oil is suitable for further use", well beyond the "recommended change interval." The recommended change interval is safe--and using this intervcal there is no reason why you can't safely change the filter every-other Oil Change. IMHO!

[Grumpy-ol-Fart]

Look at the physical size of the filters in both of those cars compared to the filter in your BMW. Filter capacity is a function of the number of square inches of media in the filter...period. You don't have many square inches of media in these filters, and you never know for certain how aggressively they are challenged. One other thing you can know for sure; if you overload the filter it operates in bypass mode. This is actually worse than running no filter at all, because some of the oil previously captured by the filter will be returned to the oil stream by migration. Not worth the gamble in my opinion. If you want to short cut your filter changes, by all means, that's your right. It isn't a good idea, and besides...it will void your warranty.

[BigAdv]

".....if you are planning to double up you intervals with the synthetic oil, you should still change the filter at 10k km. but its your bike, and your dollars."

 

I don't know why this "Old Wives Tale" persists. My 2000 Porsche Boxster recommends changing the Oil filter every-other Oil change, and my 2003 Acura MDX recommends every-other Oil change as well. In modern engines, it's not that the filter gets "Clogged", but rather that Oil has to be changed at specific "minimum" intervals, because most of it's additives have been used up. Anyone that has used "engine Oil analysis" has found that usually "Oil is suitable for further use", well beyond the "recommended change interval." The recommended change interval is safe--and using this intervcal there is no reason why you can't safely change the filter every-other Oil Change. IMHO!

 

So, when doing the services on your Porsche do you change the filter every forth time?

 

Do you have any empirical data to support this claim? Besides IMHO and other manufacturers recommendations (BMW rec.s every 10000km based on there data no doubt).

 

Earl

[Dick_at_Lake_Tahoe_NV]

"So, when doing the services on your Porsche do you change the filter every forth time?"

 

Nope, I do it every other time as they recommend. My MDX has an oil change interval of 7,500 miles, and a filter interval of 15,000 miles. The Porsche has an Oil Change interval of 15,000 miles, but then it has a 9-quart crankcase for a 2.8L engine--lots of Oil, little engine.

 

[BigAdv]

"So, when doing the services on your Porsche do you change the filter every forth time?"

 

Nope, I do it every other time as they recommend. My MDX has an oil change interval of 7,500 miles, and a filter interval of 15,000 miles. The Porsche has an Oil Change interval of 15,000 miles, but then it has a 9-quart crankcase for a 2.8L engine--lots of Oil, little engine.

 

So why would you recommend extending BMW's service interval for there filter?

 

Earl

[Dick_at_Lake_Tahoe_NV]

When I entered this discussion, the recommendation by others was to go ahead and extend the Oil Change interval, but change your filter as scheduled. What I was saying was that this doesn't make sense, since it's the Oil additives that go first. So my question would be, why would extend the interval on the Oil but not the filter?

[Mister Tee]

I'm not sure how you can change the filter without losing all or at least a bunch of your oil anyway.

[Boffin]

I'm not sure how you can change the filter without losing all or at least a bunch of your oil anyway.

 

The way the engine is built, you would only loose a filter-full plus a little from the fitting.

 

Andy

[BigAdv]

When I entered this discussion, the recommendation by others was to go ahead and extend the Oil Change interval, but change your filter as scheduled. What I was saying was that this doesn't make sense, since it's the Oil additives that go first. So my question would be, why would extend the interval on the Oil but not the filter?

 

I am not sure what point you are arguing, at first you said that it would be OK to extend the filter change interval based on other manufactures recommendations, but that the oil is what actually 'wears' out. Then in an other post you sited data from oil analysis

 

" Anyone that has used "engine Oil analysis" has found that usually "Oil is suitable for further use", well beyond the "recommended change interval."

 

that contradics your own statement.

 

Just a bit confused as to what your piont is.

 

As far as the theory of extending the service interval when changing to synthetic oil, it is based on the fact that synthetic oil is more stable thermally and has a better additive package then conventional oil. Thus should last longer in the same operating enviroment.

 

Personally I use synthetic oil for its wider temp. range (it could be 3*c in the morning here and by mid afternoon be 35*c)so by using a 5W50 oil, I am better protected for this kind of situation(you cannot get a 5W50 in a conventional oil)I change it at the recommended interval with the filter(one that is designed for the application. (OEM in this case due to the limited availability of approved after market ones)

 

Earl

[JMR]

Thought I'd bring this thread from a couple years ago back to life.

Tim Titus (Grumpy Old Fart) first shows up back on page 2 and all through-out the thread his inputs are as informative as it gets and well worth reading IMO.

Good stuff.

[Dick Rothermel]

I have 68,000 on my 07 RT. I've run Mobil V-twin for most of those miles. I had a lab in MI analyze my oil with 10,000 miles and the results showed 48% life left. That was from 6000-16,000. From that point on I change my oil and filter every 10,000 miles. No issues and I only have to add about 8 oz between changes.

[ducatiparts.110mb]

I have never understood why so many people alter the oil change intervals from the manufacturers recommendation.

 

On the Ducati forums if you mention oil, you'll be inundated by people saying that they change theirs every 1000 miles, and some here some do theirs at nearly twice the manufacturers interval.

 

What is the problem in following the instructions from the people who's livelihood is to design and subsequently maintain our bikes?

 

Mark

[Indy Dave]

 

What is the problem in following the instructions from the people who's livelihood is to design and subsequently maintain our bikes?

 

Mark

 

Well, for one, we"d have a lot less to fuss about on here! We might have to actually go out and RIDE!!