These self cancelling indicators - not sure if I like them or not

[tickle_my_tummy]

I'm not really mad about this - its just that I love the 'mad' smiley.

 

So, has anyone worked out the timing and the speeds needed yet for the signals to cancel or stay on?

 

When stationery the signals will flash forever, at higher speeds the signals stay on for about 11 seconds. As the speeds reduce the signals seems to stay on for longer (which as a safety measure seems a bit cock-eyed) but I have to say I can't get round to working it all out. There is no mention in the manual that the 12RT signals self cancel. Does anyone have any info please to put me out of my misery?

 

[JohnJC]

The ones on my ST seem to have a mind of their own as well. After some turns they seem stuck on, and I've let them go for nearly a mile just to see. When they don't go off I've found I can just lean the oposite direction briefly and that trips them. Now I just do it manually so I don't have to bother verifying they went off.

 

Anyone know of a UJM style conversion? Using both hands to change lanes seems silly. That and my other two bikes have a UJM style switch, so my poor thumbs are always confused

[sideways]

Have been intending to email bmw motorrad about this, but haven't done it yet. It is a bit of a safety issue - riders should know how they function. I've had more than one occasion where the signal cancelled itself before my turn when I had oncoming traffic ahead. Not good.

Maybe we should all email BMW and ask for an explanation. And ask that they put the explanation in next year's manual!

[R4ND0M_AX3]

I think it may be distance related and not time. I would feel a whole lot more confortable knowing the exact rules it follows to self cancel.

[TowJam]

And ask that they put the explanation in next year's manual!

It's my understanding (at least with my '04 KRS) that they cancel at .2 of a mile. This would explain why at higher speeds they seem to cancel quicker. Personally, I think this is too long a delay and I end up manually cancelling them at least half of the time.

[tickle_my_tummy]

Thanks for the replies - I've also experienced the change of direction cancellation but I think this is more chance than actual? I shall give it some more goes though as I like that bit .

 

The distance related answer seems to be the key and something I'd overlooked

 

On the motorway here we have countdown markers on the approach to the exit slip road and these are placed at 100 yard intervals. Switching on the signal at the 300 yard marker means that the signal will have cancelled itself by the time I arrive at the entry to the slip road, and this is a nuisance as I have to remember to switch it back on.

 

Overall though I prefer not to have them as they don't work as a safety measure in built up areas so I can't see the point of having them in the first place. .2 or .3 of a mile at 15mph in the High Street is a lot of junctions

 

I'd like BMW to have made it known though because when I very first started riding the bike I thought I was going mad - go on, you can say it-

[tickle_my_tummy]

Having said all that - I've just remembered that at low speeds they do go on forever, so there must be a distance and speed relationship? An average perhaps?

[PaulW42]

Both my old GS and my RT cancel at 250 yards on the motorway. I just leave it until half way between the 300 and 200 yard marker boards. In fact I'm getting a bit obsessive at getting the last flash just as I take the exit.

 

Paul

[tickle_my_tummy]

It's one of those little challenges that we like

[* SHAG *]

I've had more than one occasion where the signal cancelled itself before my turn when I had oncoming traffic ahead. Not good.

 

Same here! Sometimes I hit the turnsignal early at certain intersections! I notice that if I hit the button again closer to the turn, It does NOT reset or prolong the signal being on!

[Walter]

Personally, maybe because I've been riding too long, the self-cancelling signals are a safety hazard. My Harley has these as well and was disappointed to find out that they were also going to be on my RT.

 

The Harley has the same switch setup (left signal on left side, right signal on right side).

 

There is a trick to the auto cancellation maybe this works (I don't have my RT yet to try), as long as you keep the button depressed it doesn't begin its "countdown".

 

So you can hold the turn signal button for a while hoping to guarentee it stays on all the way to your actual turn point!

 

At that, they're crap, and I made my dealer tell me how to disable them. It was easy, and since I long ago trained myself to self-cancel, I feel safer.

 

Walter

[tickle_my_tummy]

I'll try that Walter. Sometimes technlogy gets in the way of thinking so I'm not too keen on them!

[ShovelStrokeEd]

I think its 200 meters or something like it. Maybe 400. Its been that way since BMW brought them out. My '02 1100S has them and I like them. Too bad they didn't incorporate the push same button to cancel feature from the Signal Minder as well. Then we would have a really nice setup.

[tickle_my_tummy]

Cheers Ed - I've only had BM's for the last few years and they were RT's with no SC. I know from friends with K's that they've been around a long time but the thing is here also that BMW make no reference in their manual to them or how they work. I have mixed views about them. Given your techno expertise is this something you know how to disable if I decide to go down that road?

 

As a footnote, my sense of humour is on hold from now as there's been 7 bombs gone off in London this morning claimed by AQ

[John Bentall]

As a footnote, my sense of humour is on hold from now as there's been 7 bombs gone off in London this morning claimed by AQ

 

Thread hijack alert. So has mine! My 14-yr old daughter came home yesterday and admitted she had played truant by attending the Children against Poverty rally in Westminster! And if it was today...????

You are lucky that your kids can't be similarly tempted!

[bmwmick]

Paul,

If they kept the same module as was used on the K-Bikes, the self-cancelling happens after 10 seconds (above 30MPH) and after 690Ft if you are below 30MPH.

 

Mick

[tickle_my_tummy]

Excellent Mick - that seems to be bang on. So it is speed and distance related. I thought I was going crackers.

Thank you for that and all other replies.

 

[sideways]

First, I don't want to miss a chance to say to any of you from London who might see this that my heart and thoughts are with you today, and I'm sure the same is true of Americans everywhere.

 

About the turn signals, apparently the Harley system is more sophisticated than the Beemer system, as it really cancels the signals right after a turn like a car. Rather nice, IMHO. I understand from my dealer that the new BMW system is changed somehow from the older bikes, but even they don't seem to know exactly what was changed. Maybe it's a secret kept in Berlin?

 

Being intermittently senile, I like having some sort of cancelling system for those occasions when I forget to do it me self. I just wish I didn't have to play a guessing game, in traffic, to figure out how the thing works.

Shame on you, BMW. Bad Motorrad!

[Dave McReynolds]

On my K-GT, I also think increasing engine revs or upshifting keys it to self-cancel.

[woodscrew]

I put signalminders on both my bikes and love them. Had both set up with the brake hold option-the programable countdown doesn't start as long as the brakes are applied.Very nice.

[Ken H.]

My .02 cents (.024 Canadian!)... Self canceling should be a fall back thing for when you accidentally forget, not something to be relied on ongoing. You should properly engage AND disengage you signals as a matter of course. In that context, when the self-cancel cancels is largely irrelevant. You shouldn't be using it as the normal way for your signals to stop flashing anyway.

[Walter]

For me the problem is safety, and I don't think they are that safe:

- They're hard to predict when they'll cancel. On my Harley which has them, I have more than once gone to make my turn and noticed that the signal has stopped. On left turns across traffic, this just isn't safe.

- After I noticed this a few times, I started getting paranoid, and would look at the indicator light shortly before my turn to make sure it was flashing, this isn't where my eyes should be!

- If, as you say, you should always cancel as in the 'good old days', in the Harley this would actually initiate them again because you use the same switch to cancel and begin the signal. So, the you would rely on the self-cancellation to cancel it...but probably the signal stopped before you turned....

 

I really don't think the risk of turning without an indicator (thanks to self-cancellation) is a smaller problem than leaving your indicator on. However, I like your thought that self-cancellation could be a saftey net in case you forget to cancel manually. Along those lines, they should make the self-cancellation period really, really long. Not 200 or 400 meters. How about 1000 meters, 2000 meters. Some point where its clear its a forgotten signal....

[ShovelStrokeEd]

Spot on, Ken.

 

Indicators are there for a purpose. That is to inform others you wish to change lanes or turn. When the need for the signal is over, simply reach up and cancel. I am amazed this simple thing comes as a surprise to some folks. Shows how much of the car operator mentality carries over into motorcycle riding.

 

I indicate lane changes just before making the change and cancel as I cross into the new lane. Moving turns, cancel as I hit the throttle out of the corner. Stopped turns, indicator stays on if I am first, last, or only vehicle in line, otherwise I shut it off in a turning lane. I will very rarely stop in the middle of a road that does not offer a turning lane. I'd rather go till I can find a spot to U-turn or a turning lane. Too easy for cage drivers to want to squeeze by.

[TowJam]

 

About the turn signals, apparently the Harley system is more sophisticated than the Beemer system, as it really cancels the signals right after a turn like a car. Rather nice, IMHO.

 

FYI... Harley uses a mechanical cancelling system - basically a ball bearing that senses the lean angle. (The motion detector in Harley's factory alarm system piggybacks onto this system as well.)

 

At least that's what a dealer told me when I checked into adding an HD alarm to an existing bike.

 

TJ

[Walter]

The Harley cancels on distance as well (without turns). But it does cancel immediately after it detects a turn.

 

Walter

[tickle_my_tummy]

I think I understand why some bikes have SCI's but I definitely prefer not to have them. As another option, I think the audible warning system is of more use but not too cool. Ultimately, working the mind to remember to cancel is the best way, but nothing's perfect.