Used RT buying guide?

[Jerry in Monument]

Not sure if this is the right forum, but here goes.

 

I tried searching and apologize if I just could not find one, but I am curious to know if there has been a 'used RT buying guide' compiled.

 

What I'm hoping for is a check list of what to inspect, look out for, avoid when looking at used RT.

 

Thanks.

[Bayport]

Avoid '02 and '03 RTs and the dreaded "surge" (i.e., crappy fuel injection and throttle response). I've experienced it first hand.

 

Look for a nice, clean low mileage '01. '04 was the dual spark, which reportedly cured the surge. Good looking bike but haven't ridden one.

 

Also, avoid the linked braking system where stamping on the rear brake engages the front brake. Nasty business that piece of ingenious engineering.

 

I miss my '01.

[blkvelvt]

Also, avoid the linked braking system where stamping on the rear brake engages the front brake. Nasty business that piece of ingenious engineering.

 

I miss my '01.

 

My 2005 linked brakes are the other way around. The front brake engages both brakes. I thought Goldwings were rear brake pedal linked.

[stubblejumper]

My 2005 linked brakes are the other way around. The front brake engages both brakes.

 

My 2007 r1200st is the same.The front brake lever activates both brakes,but the rear pedal only activates the rear brakes.

[Bob Palin]

1100RT - no linked brakes.

1150RT - both levers apply both brakes.

1200RT - front applies both, rear applies just rear.

[blkvelvt]

1100RT - no linked brakes.

1150RT - both levers apply both brakes.

1200RT - front applies both, rear applies just rear.

 

BMW seems to come up with new ideas all the time.

The 1150 would seem weird. Must be something to get used to.

[John in VA]

1100RT - no linked brakes.

1150RT - both levers apply both brakes.

1200RT - front applies both, rear applies just rear.

 

1100RT - no power-assist, blessed silence

1150RT - power-assist (touchy and somewhat noisy)

1200RT 05-06 - power-assist (not as touchy but more noisy)

1200RT 07+ - no power-assist and blessed silence.

[blkvelvt]

1100RT - no linked brakes.

1150RT - both levers apply both brakes.

1200RT - front applies both, rear applies just rear.

 

1100RT - no power-assist, blessed silence

1150RT - power-assist (touchy and somewhat noisy)

1200RT 05-06 - power-assist (not as touchy but more noisy)

1200RT 07+ - no power-assist and blessed silence.

 

It seems funny that BMW riders think brakes are noisey. I thought noisey brakes saves lives.

[Bob Palin]

The 1150 would seem weird. Must be something to get used to.

After 133,000 miles I'm not sure I'm used to it yet, I know I don't like it!

[John in VA]

It seems funny that BMW riders think brakes are noisey. I thought noisey brakes saves lives.

 

RT: "Bzzzt! WHIRRR! Zzzzinnnggggg!"

C3PO: "Don't get technical with ME!"

[upflying]

Or go with an 1150 RT-P with partially linked brakes.

[Fugu]

Or go with an 1150 RT-P with partially linked brakes.

 

Or just ride the crap out of an 1150RT with horrible evil linked ABS servo whizzbang brakes and disregard the internet's top 10 reasons why they're so horrible like I've been doing.

 

 

 

[Jerry in Monument]

Thanks for all the insight on the various brake systems.......

 

Kind of skipped the tracks somewhere.

 

Anything else to look for when inspecting a potential purchase?

 

What to check on the FD, how much movement in what direction?

 

Sounds to listen for?

[stubblejumper]

What to check on the FD, how much movement in what direction?

 

http://bmwsporttouring.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=362163#Post362163

 

 

[gmarktbone]

I know they are noisy, but I like them. After a couple of close calls on "cruiser brakes", I don't care how much noise they make if they stop. Mine stops very well. I also like the linked brake idea. I never use my foot brake anymore since the hand lever activates both.

[Bob Palin]

I never use my foot brake anymore since the hand lever activates both.

You need to be very careful about this, on a ripply surface the back wheel can hop and the brakes will release completely, it's know as the "ice patch" effect because that's just what it feels like. I've ended up in the middle of a cross street a couple of times and been lucky nothing was coming. It's very repeatable if you find the right stretch of road and seems to be cured by using both levers. It's a STUPID design.

[Fugu]

It's very repeatable if you find the right stretch of road and seems to be cured by using both levers. It's a STUPID design.

 

Yes, it's repeatable because it's the ABS keeping your wheels turning. You want to be able to turn w/o falling over, or not?

 

I have a great ABS function test that I ride over daily. As I leave the parking garage from my office there's an expansion joint right at an elevation change in a downhill grade towards the street.

 

Whenever I hit that little mini jump on the brakes, my ABS kicks in for a second.

 

It does it on my 98 with the good old non servo ABS, and it does it on my 04 with evil linked gonna kill ya brakes.

 

If you don't like ABS, I guess you don't like ABS and that's a decision everybody's got to make on their own. I am calling BS however on normal side effects of ABS function being limited to servo or non servo brakes or linked or non linked brakes.

 

If your rear end is chattering over stutter bumps because you have a crappy shock, or a maladjusted shock, or just because the bumps are severe- your ABS equippped bike is going to do all its programming allows it to do - release those brakes a bit and pulse them so you don't lock it up.

 

If you want your tires to skid over that sort of stuff, then turn off the ABS or buy a bike that doesn't have it.

[Mike O]

Avoid '02 and '03 RTs and the dreaded "surge" (i.e., crappy fuel injection and throttle response). I've experienced it first hand.

 

Look for a nice, clean low mileage '01. '04 was the dual spark, which reportedly cured the surge. Good looking bike but haven't ridden one....

I have a 2003 and it's never surged. I've ridden a dual spark and it did. The dual spark does NOT fix surging; proper tuning does. The re-design of the fuel delivery system on the R1200 series bikes significantly eliminated the touchy tuning required to eliminate surge (although I've heard improperly tuned 1200's can surge as well)

 

Having said that, I would recommend (if possible) you ride the bike you're interested in and make an assessment yourself. If you're trying to avoid servo assisted linked brakes then your only choice is an R1100RT. From the factory, all R1150RT's minimally have servo assist brakes and only the RTP versions are unlinked.

 

Mike O

[Bob Palin]

So explain why it doesn't happen if you use both levers.

 

Yes, I would MUCH rather lock up the back wheel than end up in the cross street because the bike has released both wheels due to one of them skipping. ABSURD.

[Boffin]

The Ice Patch effect has nothing to do with standard ABS function other than the sensors and hardware being hijacked for another purpose. That other purpose is an "Anti-stoppie" function. The intent is that if the rear locks and does not start turning again in a specific (short) timeframe the software assumes that the rear is airborne and releases the front brake as well. The upshot is that on a washboard surface the bike has no brakes. The front tyre may be gripping like a limpet but the system releases the brake anyway. That is not ABS functionality, it is a nightmare.

 

Andy

[John in VA]

I guess since this has turned into a brake thread I'll throw in my observation about a broken-up downhill street on my daily commute that also has dust and bits of gravel on it from a construction site entrance/exit. Heavy traffic is usually slow (5-10mph) going down that hill and I find that braking gently using only the rear foot brake, which may occasionally skip, is much more controllable than if I use the hand lever only -- which once almost resulted in a low-speed rearender when both brakes released no matter how hard I squeezed the hand lever (with accompanying whizzzwhirrrrzzzinggg sound effects). I've never used the hand lever only since then.

[smiller]

The intent is that if the rear locks and does not start turning again in a specific (short) timeframe the software assumes that the rear is airborne and releases the front brake as well.

I'm a little confused by your meaning in that under ABS activation a wheel will always start turning again in a short time (as soon as line pressure is dumped), which is the entire point of ABS.

 

As an aside, in 11 years and 100,000 miles I have never encountered the 'ice patch' effect with the front brake applied during rear ABS activation. I even tried to generate it once but with no results. Don't know why, guess I'm doing something wrong...

[Fugu]

So explain why it doesn't happen if you use both levers.

 

The only time I've experienced the so called "patch of ice" effect has been on dirt on the GS when I should have had ABS disabled to begin with.

 

On other surfaces that cause my ABS to get to work, I don't have the problem you describe. If I have poor traction I can feel the ABS work, and sometimes that reduces braking for an instant but that's how it keeps wheels turning.

 

 

Yes, I would MUCH rather lock up the back wheel than end up in the cross street because the bike has released both wheels due to one of them skipping. ABSURD.

 

Then turn off your ABS, yank your ABS completely, or buy a bike w/o ABS. If it's such a terrible hazard, surely the minor inconvenience of any of those options would be worth it. For you to continue to ride something so unsafe by design is what's ABSURD.

[Bob Palin]

As an aside, in 11 years and 100,000 miles I have never encountered the 'ice patch' effect with the front brake applied during rear ABS activation. I even tried to generate it once but with no results.

That's because you have an 1100!

[Bob Palin]

Then turn off your ABS, yank your ABS completely, or buy a bike w/o ABS. If it's such a terrible hazard, surely the minor inconvenience of any of those options would be worth it. For you to continue to ride something so unsafe by design is what's ABSURD.

Apparently you can't read, like I said, if you use both levers it doesn't happen. Which was the point of my mentioning it in the first place.

[stubblejumper]

I haven't had my st that long,but I have ridden it in heavy rain,on gravel,and on very rough pavement.Using the front lever only,I have never had a problem with the abs.

[smiller]

That's because you have an 1100!

Ah, OK, didn't realize that they were unaffected by the 'ice patch' thing. Now I just have to figure out why my knock sensor isn't working...

[Boffin]

I haven't had my st that long,but I have ridden it in heavy rain,on gravel,and on very rough pavement.Using the front lever only,I have never had a problem with the abs.

 

The problem occurs on the evo brakes as fitted to the 1150 and early 1200s when the rear wheel is kicked off the ground by ripples. Using both brakes seems to stop it happening and I suspect ditching the OEM shocks in favour of decent aftermarket shocks with better compliance would also be a great help.

 

Edit: The ABS function itself is very effective - a few weeks ago in France due to my inattention I found myself braking heavily in heavy gravel left over from a chip-seal resurfacing and the bike stopped very well. I noticed at that time that the ABS cycled much more slowly than it does on wet roads - just what was needed, but how did it know?

Andy

[skinny_tom (aka boney)]

In before the lock!