Don't outride your line of sight

[leikam]

Just a PSA.

 

I'm sure you've all heard the advise that you should be able to stop in the distance which you can actually see is clear. And if you're like me, you occasionally (or perhaps more than occasionally) run the corners a bit faster than that.

 

Here's why that's a bad idea. I was riding highway 25 yesterday, which is a great road through rolling, curvy farm and ranch land. I've ridden it many times and think I know it pretty well. Anyway, as I was riding along at a good pace, I saw a pickup truck ahead in the oncoming lane going very slowly. That's odd. As I got closer, I saw the driver was holding a sign out the window. Wonder what that's about? As I get close enough to read, it says "SLOW". So I do. Significantly. And 100 feet later, around a blind turn, I see this coming my way and taking up both lanes. So, I was thankful for the truck's warning sign but there was no truck following so anybody catching up to that monster could well be surprised.

 

We all get advice based on what might happen. For me, yesterday was that one time in thousands of corners where it wasn't clear. I expect that's how it will happen the next time: a nice day in the middle of a ride going around a corner I know fairly well. I guess that's why they call these things "unexpected".

 

Ride well.

[David]

What were you doing riding fast in a cornfield?

[leikam]

They were soybeans.

[ShovelStrokeEd]

A harvester is a formidable object. I've been steaming along in farm country and more than once encountered one of them moving up the road. Pretty common to see them, in fact.

 

Edamame = Best beer snack, evah.

 

Did you blow your horn?

[leikam]

You're right Ed. I've seen them on the road in the flatlands too, but just wasn't expecting to be face-to-face with the business end of one right there. Nothing quite like rounding a corner and seeing rows of blades higher than your head.

 

I didn't blow my horn. I turtled, pulled over and let him get away with encroching on my lane. Something about bringing a horn to a knife fight...

[Kitsap]

Same thing yesterday on the way home from the UN just outside Wasco, OR.. A flatbed semi truck came by first with the blades and the Wide Load sign followed closely by a brand new John Deere. The mesmerizing curves of Eastern Oregon quickly gave way to an o-shit breath like the monkey moment.

[Wheels Rollin']

Pretty common to see them, in fact.

That's certainly the truth 'round these parts, though it is something of a seasonal thing... The big 4-wheel drive tractors with their various 'appendages' can be as well <>, 'specially if they've just come from a wet field and are 'chunkin' clods' all over the place <>...

 

~ Bill

[leikam]

Let's not be distracted by the big toys. My point wasn't that combines might be hiding around the bend, but that riding within one's sight lines allows you to avoid whatever it might be.

[Wheels Rollin']

Let's not be distracted by the big toys. My point wasn't that combines might be hiding around the bend, but that riding within one's sight lines allows you to avoid whatever it might be.

Point taken, Michael... I suppose the essence of this is to avoid unpleasant and potentially 'ride-spoiling' surprises -- maintaining speed-appropriate sight lines, as you've stated, should, in all likelihood, accomplish just that...

 

~ Bill

[ESokoloff]

They were soybeans.

 

I doubt it, corn too.

 

Hay or alfalfa is most likely.

 

Glad it turned out Ok for you.

25 is a road that allows for max speeds.

 

Edit: But like all roads never outrun your sight lines.

[Quinn]

Almost met the reaper?

 

 

[OoPEZoO]

Farm machinery is always a BIG concern of mine considering my local riding. This time of year is especially bad due to the added concern of hay bails falling off of trucks/wagons. I've found two sitting in my lane in the past three weeks during my daily commute.

[Pilgrim]

Michael, I'm going to expand on, not hijack, your post with regard to sight lines. This is based on an experience a couple years ago on I-70 west of Denver.

 

I was one with the road, man, you know the feeling. The engineer who laid it out was my best friend and the road guys who kept it up will be mentioned in my will. The weather was severe clear and the temps were just right for leather.

 

It was in a canyon section before Georgetown and there was this fairly tight, sweeping left ahead. I was cranked over pretty good in the left lane but things were wide open ahead of me, not a truck or car for half a mile and it felt GREAT! - until a long, curly piece of truck tire that the jersey barrier between the e-bound and w-bound lanes had concealed showed up, right in the middle of my lane. I evaded with no trouble; action was called for, certainly, but it was not a dramatic moment.

 

What it was, though, was a wake-up call we apparently need from time to time, a reminder of this: you don't have an open sight-line unless you can see the road!

 

Pilgrim

[russell_bynum]

What it was, though, was a wake-up call we apparently need from time to time, a reminder of this: you don't have an open sight-line unless you can see the road!

 

Yep. There's a difference between "I couldn't see anything" and "I could see that there was nothing."

 

 

[Wheels Rollin']

you don't have an open sight-line unless you can see the road!

 

Pilgrim

With all the 'stuff' found lying about on the roadways these days, Pilgrim, your comment is 'spot on'... I seem to remember a 'what's the strangest thing you've ever seen in the road?' topic (or something to that effect) we discussed here some time back... As I recall, the responses were pretty, pardon the pun, eye-opening... Had any of us struck the objects we noted, it's not likely we would've been able to read and respond to the post!

 

Collective wisdom <>... No wonder so much of motorcycling is mental <>... Thanks for adding this to the discussion...

 

~ Bill

[Horse]

Michael, I'm going to expand on, not hijack, your post with regard to sight lines. This is based on an experience a couple years ago on I-70 west of Denver.

 

I was cranked over pretty good in the left lane but things were wide open ahead of me, not a truck or car for half a mile and it felt GREAT! - until a long, curly piece of truck tire that the jersey barrier between the e-bound and w-bound lanes had concealed showed up, right in the middle of my lane.

 

What it was, though, was a wake-up call we apparently need from time to time, a reminder of this: you don't have an open sight-line unless you can see the road!

 

Very good point, well told.

 

A particular roundabout I know is approached from one direction by a banked road - the entire roundabout is on a slope - and approaching from that direction it's difficult to see cars coming around because there's an Armco barrier.

 

It's more difficult still to see riders 'surfing', hung off to one side, knee skimming the tarmac - they probably never realise quite how low their 'highest' part is, and how difficult they are to see

[Couchrocket]

Let's be honest. We may pay lip service to this, but we don't really observe it. Wanna know how I know that? I'm one of the slowest people on this board, and I'm on the ragged edge of outrunning my sight lines all the time, and do out run them more often than I care to admit -- especially on very familiar roads where I know for certain "what's supposed to be next" just beyond my sight lines.

 

If I do that, there's a whole pot load of Y'all that are significantly out running yours all the time. You may be good at "reading" what is "most likely coming next" and even be darn good at it, but we're all still gambling. Many, even most, on the DB here are much better riders than I am, technically speaking, and are much faster, they disappear in front of me like vapor in the morning sun. Unless they are bending the law of optics /physics in some mystical way, they're absorbing significant risk in doing so.

 

Every time I break out David Hough's books, I'm forced to face reality about this.

[SageRider]

Let's not be distracted by the big toys. My point wasn't that combines might be hiding around the bend, but that riding within one's sight lines allows you to avoid whatever it might be.

Riding within one's sight line allows one only to avoid stationary or extremely slow moving objects. As such, it is a good concept. Just keep in mind that this concept doesn't do one much, if any, good when the object is oncoming with speed. (Say a bus minus steering and brakes as an example....BTDT)

 

[FlyingFinn]

Let's be honest. We may pay lip service to this, but we don't really observe it....

 

+1 “Never out-ride your line of sight” is very hard rule to live by, so hard that I can admit I break that rule almost every day. I’m not happy about it and it makes me somewhat uncomfortable but I still do it.

 

My daily commute is on very curvy Hwy-17 from Los Gatos to Scotts Valley, the speed limit in that section is 50mph. Let’s hypothetically say that on days with light traffic I scoot along at 70mph and being alert, but not on razors edge at every moment, my reaction time is a reasonable 1 second. Include little bit or decision making time in that 1 sec if you will.

I can’t find a 60-0 stopping distance spec for a 1200GS but after looking few different sources it seems that 150ft might be reasonable estimate.

At 70mph I travel just about 100ft/sec.

So my minimum real-life stopping distance is about 250ft.

 

I’m pretty darn sure the sight line through many of the blind curves (blocked either by a cement center divider, or a mountain side on the inside of the curve) is less than 250ft.

 

Maybe Mitch or some other brainiac here can calculate what kind of curve radius (radius of the “wall” and radius of the rider at center of the lane) gives a sight line of 250ft.

 

--

Mikko

[russell_bynum]

“Never out-ride your line of sight” is very hard rule to live by, so hard that I can admit I break that rule almost every day. I’m not happy about it and it makes me somewhat uncomfortable but I still do it.

 

Yep.

 

If you consider oncoming traffic that may be in your lane, there are plenty of corners where you could be at a dead stop and still be outriding your sight lines.

 

As much as people pretend this isn't the case, you're playing the odds and weighing risk/reward.

[leikam]

If you consider oncoming traffic... sure. There's still such a thing as "wrong place, wrong time" although that's not really what this maxim is for. It's the stopped truck or the u-turning car or the washed out road or the accident that calls for the brakes instead of the gas.

 

And I'm not very troubled when following others around the curves like those on highway 17. Even if I can't see that far, the cars I can see have a view further around the bend. If they saw something wrong, they would be on their brakes. And if they do slam on the brakes, chances are I don't really need to come to a stop behind them. I just need to avoid hitting them and whatever is ahead.

 

In fact, I'll sometimes keep a car just at the vanishing point for this exact reason. Early warning and not foolproof, but better in my opinion than being on the leading edge.

[ElevenFifty]

Ain't it true! We know better, but the thrill of speed and lean are siren songs! I confess to having that 'WHAT AM I DOING!' moment when I'm having a great time, placing myself at great risk.

 

I think this practice of riding beyond the bikes ability to stop safely is the 'common cold' of motorcycling. It is such frequently observed behavior in the people I ride with that has led me to prefer riding solo (or two-up with my lady).

 

Slow-in, fast-out and those wonderful left hand sweepers with clear views are how I 'air-it-out' ... riding blind is just inviting the reaper. It doesn't matter how technically good a rider you are if you are defying the physical realities.

 

My worst fear is that someone close to me will get into riding because my wife and I enjoy it so much - and that they will get hurt. When the moment comes that someone with a gleam in their eye starts the 'I want to do that' conversation, my initial response is to say something like 'I love riding, but it is a huge responsibility and there are significant risks involved - you have to be very alert all the time - and, unfortunately, you may only get to make one mistake.' If they want to continue the conversation after that, then I might wax poetic about the beautiful things I've seen and the America that exists off the Interstates.

 

My sons both ride and I have been priviledged to introduce and 'guide' a couple of other people into the sport. When they express an interest, I loan them 'Proficient Motorcycling' and have them read the 1st chapter. I tell them that the intensity of concentration that comes when you realize the risks is one of the things I like best about riding ... that it is a lot like flying - you don't get to make a lot of mistakes.

 

I advise the MSF course but most people I've met do that AFTER they start riding. I also point out the HUGE risks of the 1st couple of hours on the bike and offer to shepherd them around a couple of favorite rides. Sight lines - stopping distance - surface conditions - cage awareness and distrust of drivers ... dominate my teaching. Simple things like

- 'always stop completely and put your foot down at stop signs'

- 'pretend they never see you'

- 'NEVER ride even mildly intoxicated'

and other survival techniques are the focus.

 

nuff said -

 

Be careful our there - DH ;~)

[russell_bynum]

In fact, I'll sometimes keep a car just at the vanishing point for this exact reason. Early warning and not foolproof, but better in my opinion than being on the leading edge.

 

I find that cars generally don't behave well enough for that to work when I'm on the bike (my speed varies too much compared to theirs), but I do that quite often when I'm in the car.

[SonicRT]

This is similar to how a buddy of mine went down. About 8 years ago, we were riding in a canyon that we would frequent. We made it to the top of the hill, had some lunch and came back down. We made the point that there was sand on the road so we would take it easy. Well, we were on sport bikes (he had a ZX9R and I had my R1), and we started playing around, and soon got to a pretty fast pace. he was ahead of me because I was starting to feel uneasy about our speed. We approached a blind corner, it was uphill, so you couldn't see where it went at the crest, unfortunately for him, it made a 90 degree turn. All I saw was the aftermath, but he took the turn too hot, and ended up on the shoulder of the wrong side of the road. He hit a large boulder which shot him about a hundred feet from his bike (not sure how much of this was in the air, I found him lying there). I thought he was dead. Fortunately he was not. It could have been a lot worse if there was a car or truck coming around the corner.

 

We both had been riding for years. We both had been to track classes, and other motorcycle riding schools. Needless to say, I have learned that even if I am not riding at the limmits, blind corners, no matter what makes them blind are dangerous!!! I try to stay to the outside of my lane just in case!!!!!