Cager rant

[Damean]

Well, they almost got me this morning on my way to work. Some yahoo in a minivan shot across 3 lanes of traffic to make his exit lane. The exit lane I was already in.

 

I want to thank every one here that posts about their close calls, and how they avoided them. Reading about them has obviously sunk into my brain, because I was down shifting, breaking, and honking before I even realized I was doing it. Without your posts to get me think about the situation, I might have been caught flat footed, and had a very bad day.

 

What makes me almost lose my mind about this morning, was as I honked at the guy, his response after we lock eyeballs, is to swerve harder into the lane I ended up missing his rear bumper by about 3 feet. He saw me, and didn't care. He could not be bothered to go one more mile up the road and turn around at the next exit. Infuriating, really.

[ShovelStrokeEd]

Next time don't bother honking the horn. Concentrate on not being in the area where the collision is about to take place. I mean this and don't mean to disparage your riding but by that time, you shouldn't have been looking him in the eye but looking for your path out.

 

As you now know, blowing theae horn is a useless exercise. It doesn't mean the driver will react in a manner which you expect, and if he/she doesn't, well you have another surprise to deal with.

 

Second, if you noticed him swerving across 3 lanes, you had plenty of time to get slowed down to begin with. Insisting on your right of way when you are at 800 lbs and a cage is at 3000 lbs is not really a good idea.

[russell_bynum]

Next time don't bother honking the horn. Concentrate on not being in the area where the collision is about to take place. I mean this and don't mean to disparage your riding but by that time, you shouldn't have been looking him in the eye but looking for your path out.

 

As you now know, blowing theae horn is a useless exercise. It doesn't mean the driver will react in a manner which you expect, and if he/she doesn't, well you have another surprise to deal with.

 

Second, if you noticed him swerving across 3 lanes, you had plenty of time to get slowed down to begin with. Insisting on your right of way when you are at 800 lbs and a cage is at 3000 lbs is not really a good idea.

 

What Ed said.

 

 

[Damean]

As you now know, blowing the horn is a useless exercise. It doesn't mean the driver will react in a manner which you expect, and if he/she doesn't, well you have another surprise to deal with.

 

Doesn't mean it's not frustrating, though. And your right, it does no good. I also don't want to come off like I was contesting my position. Once I saw him coming in, i was doing my damnedest to get out of his way. I know I can't win that fight ever.

[Mister Tee]

Yeah a similar thing happened to me once. I was in the #1 lane of a three lane road, separated from the other side by a concrete curb median, and some kid in a small pickup decides to barrel out of a gas station parking lot all the way across three empty lanes in to me. There was no room to brake, so I dropped a couple gears and wheelied ahead of him before he was able to squish me against the median. It was a good thing I was on the GSXR, otherwise I probably wouldn't have had the acceleration to get out of the way.

 

After I was clear of the immediate threat, I then went in to agro mode.

[russell_bynum]

Yeah a similar thing happened to me once. I was in the #1 lane of a three lane road, separated from the other side by a concrete curb median, and some kid in a small pickup decides to barrel out of a gas station parking lot all the way across three empty lanes in to me. There was no room to brake, so I dropped a couple gears and wheelied ahead of him before he was able to squish me against the median. It was a good thing I was on the GSXR, otherwise I probably wouldn't have had the acceleration to get out of the way.

 

After I was clear of the immediate threat, I then went in to agro mode.

 

You had time to pull in the clutch, find your gear shift lever, shift down a couple of gears, get the clutch back out, and wheelie...but you didn't have time to squeeze the brake lever.

 

 

 

That's funny.

[Damean]

Well, after a little thought, my biggest mistake was assuming that he was not going to enter the lane I was in. Had I not assumed that, I could have backed off a little, and avoided the whole situation with little more than a "what is he doing?" thought. As opposed to the "OMGHE'SCOMINGINBRAKEBRAKEBRAKEHONKHONKHONKYOUBASTARD" thought that went through my head. Well, we all know what assuming does and is, so lesson learned.

[russell_bynum]

Well, after a little thought, my biggest mistake was assuming that he was not going to enter the lane I was in. Had I not assumed that, I could have backed off a little, and avoided the whole situation with little more than a "what is he doing?" thought. As opposed to the "OMGHE'SCOMINGINBRAKEBRAKEBRAKEHONKHONKHONKYOUBASTARD" thought that went through my head. Well, we all know what assuming does and is, so lesson learned.

 

Yep.

 

One of the first requirements for survival is to make sure you're seeing the world as it actually is vs. how you think it should be.

[Mister Tee]

You had time to pull in the clutch, find your gear shift lever, shift down a couple of gears, get the clutch back out, and wheelie...but you didn't have time to squeeze the brake lever.

 

That's funny.

 

Who said anything about a clutch? A couple quick blips on the throttle and taps downward with the foot takes about half a second. At least for me.

 

Of course I had time to grab the brake lever, I was just was pretty sure I couldn't clear the vehicle by braking, given its trajectory.

 

Jeez.

[Whip]

Well, after a little thought, my biggest mistake was assuming that he was not going to enter the lane I was in. Had I not assumed that, I could have backed off a little, and avoided the whole situation with little more than a "what is he doing?" thought. As opposed to the "OMGHE'SCOMINGINBRAKEBRAKEBRAKEHONKHONKHONKYOUBASTARD" thought that went through my head. Well, we all know what assuming does and is, so lesson learned.

 

Yep.

 

One of the first requirements for survival is to make sure you're seeing the world as it actually is vs. how you think it should be.

 

 

You should put quotes around that....LG.

 

[russell_bynum]

Well, after a little thought, my biggest mistake was assuming that he was not going to enter the lane I was in. Had I not assumed that, I could have backed off a little, and avoided the whole situation with little more than a "what is he doing?" thought. As opposed to the "OMGHE'SCOMINGINBRAKEBRAKEBRAKEHONKHONKHONKYOUBASTARD" thought that went through my head. Well, we all know what assuming does and is, so lesson learned.

 

Yep.

 

One of the first requirements for survival is to make sure you're seeing the world as it actually is vs. how you think it should be.

 

 

You should put quotes around that....LG.

 

 

I believe his version was "Be here now." See the 18" trees going downstream at 35mph.

[AnRSguy]

First of all I DO realize that when we are on two wheels we cannot win a physical altercation with a cage.

 

BUT - I use my horn to wake these idiots up. It works for me. Not on the screaming meanies but on the lane encroachers etc it does. If we just always jam on the brakes and let them have there way, they will never mend their ways. I have seen the look on many faces when I lay on the horn that says, "OMG - I didn't look and almost hit that guy".

 

Am I always prepared - YES - do I have an escape route - YES, do I cover the brakes and clutch - YES, but I also cover the horn and use it.

 

We have ZERO chance of getting people to notice us if we don't let them know we are there, by using our horns.

 

[russell_bynum]

First of all I DO realize that when we are on two wheels we cannot win a physical altercation with a cage.

 

BUT - I use my horn to wake these idiots up. It works for me. Not on the screaming meanies but on the lane encroachers etc it does. If we just always jam on the brakes and let them have there way, they will never mend their ways. I have seen the look on many faces when I lay on the horn that says, "OMG - I didn't look and almost hit that guy".

 

Am I always prepared - YES - do I have an escape route - YES, do I cover the brakes and clutch - YES, but I also cover the horn and use it.

 

We have ZERO chance of getting people to notice us if we don't let them know we are there, by using our horns.

 

I'm not interested in changing people's behavior and I don't waste any of my energy getting bent out of shape when someone doesn't live up to my expectations.

 

Notice me or not...I don't care. It makes no difference to me.

 

Besides...In my experience, most of the time, people's response when you honk at them is they get mad at you. It never occurs to them that you're honking because they just tried to kill you, and when they get to work, the story they'll tell their co-workers isn't how they almost ran over a guy on a bike but luckily he honked...it'll be about some ***hole on a bike who cut them off and honked at them.

[AnRSguy]

We are not what a lot of people think of when they think "biker". Our bikes are generally not loud and obnoxious.

 

Some do get mad and some don't. The ones that don't may start being a bit more observant.

 

I don't have a chip on my shoulder about it. I just let them know I am there and that they should look.

 

And what IF we only change one persons behaviour, that saves someones life later on, is that such a bad thing? I think not, but I suppose I am in the minority, but that doesn't bother me in the least.

[ShovelStrokeEd]

Took the words right out of my mouth, you did, Russell. I beep my horn once in a while to see if the thing still works. Don't need it, don't use it and above all, don't depend on it.

[90%angel]

I'm not interested in changing people's behavior and I don't waste any of my energy getting bent out of shape when someone doesn't live up to my expectations.

 

OK, I have to tell on you here...while this your philosophy on the bike, it is definitely not you in the car.

 

In the car, Russell is quite fond of the horn, and I'm usually the one that says "OK, they get it now, you can stop honking".

 

[tallman]

I'm not interested in changing people's behavior and I don't waste any of my energy getting bent out of shape when someone doesn't live up to my expectations.

 

OK, I have to tell on you here...while this your philosophy on the bike, it is definitely not you in the car.

 

In the car, Russell is quite fond of the horn, and I'm usually the one that says "OK, they get it now, you can stop honking".

 

 

BUSTED!

[Wheels Rollin']

What makes me almost lose my mind about this morning, was as I honked at the guy, his response after we lock eyeballs, is to swerve harder into the lane I ended up missing his rear bumper by about 3 feet. He saw me, and didn't care. He could not be bothered to go one more mile up the road and turn around at the next exit. Infuriating, really.

Thanks so much for sharing this, Damean... As you've expressed, there is tremendous value in being in a position to learn from the experiences of others -- the good, bad, and inbetween... This place is priceless in that regard... After all, there's no way any of us can 'do it all', ya' know <>...

 

As for your 'Bozo'? Just think of him as belonging to the DITWADS group -- Drivers In Training Without Adequate Driving Skills... Seems to fit, doesn't it...

 

Seriously, though, glad you're still with us in one piece, wiser and validated, so to speak... Safe travels always -- tomorrow and all the tomorrows that follow, OK?

 

~ Bill

[russell_bynum]

I'm not interested in changing people's behavior and I don't waste any of my energy getting bent out of shape when someone doesn't live up to my expectations.

 

OK, I have to tell on you here...while this your philosophy on the bike, it is definitely not you in the car.

 

In the car, Russell is quite fond of the horn, and I'm usually the one that says "OK, they get it now, you can stop honking".

 

 

Yep. Primarily because in the car I don't have much of a choice. I'm stuck and there's nothing I can do about it, so I might as well sit on my horn to let them know that I know they're stupid. On the bike, what's the point? Just change course and keep rolling.

[russell_bynum]

Took the words right out of my mouth, you did, Russell. I beep my horn once in a while to see if the thing still works. Don't need it, don't use it and above all, don't depend on it.

 

I don't even know if the Tuono has a horn...I've never thought to try it.

[Ken H.]

We have ZERO chance of getting people to notice us if we don't let them know we are there, by using our horns.

And what percentage of the driving public will you encounter in your riding lifetime and positively effect? Assuming a 100% success rate in your spontaneous "retraining program."

 

The point is that we are (dangerously) deluding ourselves if we think a horn honk will improve life for motorcyclist.

[AnRSguy]

We have ZERO chance of getting people to notice us if we don't let them know we are there, by using our horns.

And what percentage of the driving public will you encounter in your riding lifetime and positively effect? Assuming a 100% success rate in your spontaneous "retraining program."

 

The point is that we are (dangerously) deluding ourselves if we think a horn honk will improve life for motorcyclist.

 

I am not saying that ww could change everyone.

 

%? I have no idea, no one does. Except that if you don't try, yours % will be 0.

 

Many of the opinions expressed here seem to be self-fulfilling prophecies. "I don't think it will work, so why even try." I for one am willing to try.

 

 

[gottabmw]

I can't count on two hands the times I've honked and that was the only way they knew they almost ran me over. The horn isn't exactly useless.

[ShovelStrokeEd]

 

Many of the opinions expressed here seem to be self-fulfilling prophecies. "I don't think it will work, so why even try." I for one am willing to try.

 

 

Not any of that, based on hundreds of thousands of miles of experience, it just doesn't work. What does work is maintaining sufficient vigilance that these become non-events. Another word for it is situational awareness. If you ride enough, and survive, you will learn that simply not being in the situation is the best defense.

 

If you find yourself needing the horn, you have failed in your duty to yourself to not allow situations to develop to the point where a warning to another driver is necessary or, for that matter, that you are surprised at all by events occurring around you. When you get good at it, the dangerous and potentially deadly actions of others sharing the road happen while you are not there. The clues are there, you just have to learn to recognize them.

[jjg3]

If you find yourself needing the horn, you have failed in your duty to yourself to not allow situations to develop to the point where a warning to another driver is necessary or, for that matter, that you are surprised at all by events occurring around you. When you get good at it, the dangerous and potentially deadly actions of others sharing the road happen while you are not there. The clues are there, you just have to learn to recognize them.

 

Maybe... Sometimes I find that I can see situations develop where I can either remove myself and not let the situation happen (slow down or speed up) or let it develop. There are times when, in the center of 3 lanes with merging traffic, I know a couple of days a week someone will try to merge across the right lane into the center lane, in my space, using the mirror (not properly adjusted) without paying attention. I'll allow them to get a bit of their car into my lane and then lay on the Stebel entirely too long... long enough for everyone around to see this person removing themselves from my lane. If they're stupid and get shaken and hit me (hasn't happened yet) there will be many witnesses, and I'm well insured. Sometimes the car will continue regardless, and I just do what I would have done otherwise... there's time if you plan. I actually hit an SUV one day, at an intersection I made a right turn (from southbound to westbound) and she, coming opposite, made a left turn (northbound to westbound across traffic) into me as I was clearing. We were both in the same lane and I intentionally skipped off the side of her SUV, got in front of her, stopped in the lane, got off the bike and pointed my finger at her and yelled in my helmet "What the he11 do you think you're doing!" Stood for a one-count, got back on my bike and continued.

An encounter with a car, even an SUV, doesn't have to end badly, if you plan it... in my opinion, of course.

[russell_bynum]

Not that I think it's getting through to anyone, but "What Ed said."

 

 

It is a shift in the way you think. Stop thinking about "What that guy did wrong." and just look out for yourself. Pay attention, stay cool (by "cool", I mean emotionally cool...don't get bothered by what's going on around you) and just go about your business of surviving. When you get good at it, you really will be at a point where you are moving to clear yourself from the problem before the problem has even begun to develop. By the time the car starts changing lanes into you, you've already changed lanes, accelerated through a gap, and tucked into another opening in traffic....you're 600' away from the problem before it even starts to develop.

 

But you will never reach that point if you continue to sit there waiting to tell that other guy what he did wrong.

[gottabmw]

But you will never reach that point if you continue to sit there waiting to tell that other guy what he did wrong.

Well, that's a nice thought but there are circumstances where, no matter how vigilant and forgiving you are, you will be encroached upon. I see no reason why you should just turn the other cheek. Sometimes the "perp" needs to know what they did.

[Jeepster]

Well, that's a nice thought but there are circumstances where, no matter how vigilant and forgiving you are, you will be encroached upon. I see no reason why you should just turn the other cheek. Sometimes the "perp" needs to know what they did.

 

If a person was shooting at you and missed, would turn around and taunt them, or continue evasive actions that may continue to save your life.

[Couchrocket]

I can't count on two hands the times I've honked and that was the only way they knew they almost ran me over. The horn isn't exactly useless.

 

Yup... any tool is a tool. You use it when it might do some good, but you don't depend on it. I'll sometimes blip the horn when I'm not sure someone has their wits about them. Case in point today, some guy doing u-turn in the middle of the Ortega Highway... I'm approaching... is his head properly swiveled around and looking? I can't tell... I lay on the horn for a second. Did it help? I don't know, but it was a tool I had and I used it. I also eased off the throttle, dropped a gear, covered my brakes, looked for escape routes if he pulled out, etc.

 

 

[ShovelStrokeEd]

Maybe... Sometimes I find that I can see situations develop where I can either remove myself and not let the situation happen (slow down or speed up) or let it develop. There are times when, in the center of 3 lanes with merging traffic, I know a couple of days a week someone will try to merge across the right lane into the center lane, in my space, using the mirror (not properly adjusted) without paying attention. I'll allow them to get a bit of their car into my lane and then lay on the Stebel entirely too long... long enough for everyone around to see this person removing themselves from my lane. If they're stupid and get shaken and hit me (hasn't happened yet) there will be many witnesses, and I'm well insured. Sometimes the car will continue regardless, and I just do what I would have done otherwise... there's time if you plan. I actually hit an SUV one day, at an intersection I made a right turn (from southbound to westbound) and she, coming opposite, made a left turn (northbound to westbound across traffic) into me as I was clearing. We were both in the same lane and I intentionally skipped off the side of her SUV, got in front of her, stopped in the lane, got off the bike and pointed my finger at her and yelled in my helmet "What the he11 do you think you're doing!" Stood for a one-count, got back on my bike and continued.

An encounter with a car, even an SUV, doesn't have to end badly, if you plan it... in my opinion, of course.

 

As to the first part, you know there is a merge coming and that either a merging car or someone he is merging into is likely to move from the right lane to the center and you persist in riding there? Move to the left a 1/2 mile or more before the merge. You have just created a non-event.

 

I won't even comment on the second part of that post except to give you something to think about. Would you have done the same if the driver of the SUV was 6'4, 300 lbs and likely to exit his SUV as well, grab you by the chin bar and use you as a flail to beat your motorcycle to the curb?

 

A horn is, at best, a reactive tool. Far better to have taken a proactive stance. Riding a motorcycle in traffic is like running through a herd of cows. They are mostly oblivious to your presence and tend to move in a random pattern. It is your obligation to be aware of the actions, or potential actions, of the cows far enough in front of you so that you are not there when they change path.

[AnRSguy]

Never allow ourselves to get into a situation where we might need to use our horn? There is the potential to get hit everytime you pass another vehicle or one passes you. Rush hour traffic, you're boxed in, you have no where to go - and saying, don't let yourself get boxed in, is well, just not very realistic. I've seen people try to crowd me when I was stopped at a traffic light.

 

If you read my posts I clearly state that my situational awareness level is extremely high at all times when I am on a bike, but I still have to pass other vehicles and that presents an opportunity to be encroached upon. I didn't suggest that you stay in that position and just lay on the horn. Our horns are another weapon in our arsenal against those other drivers that don't pay attention.

[Stan Walker]

I'm always surprised by the number of riders that cannot honk and swerve/brake at the same time......

 

Perhaps a little practice is needed?

 

Stan

[ShovelStrokeEd]

Our horns are another weapon in our arsenal against those other drivers that don't pay attention.

 

Kinda like bringing a strand of damp spaghetti to a quarter staff match.

 

Whatever, if it works for you, and you are still typing, it must.

[AnRSguy]

Our horns are another weapon in our arsenal against those other drivers that don't pay attention.

 

Kinda like bringing a strand of damp spaghetti to a quarter staff match.

 

Whatever, if it works for you, and you are still typing, it must.

 

Allowing others to have their way with no warning is sort of like cowering at the first sign of a confrontation.

 

It's been working for more that 40 years, I think I'll stick with it.

 

Ride safe in your own way.

[nrp]

I can never find the horn button on my bike(s) that one time per year when I want or need it. Cars are even worse with their non-standard horn arrangements.

[Marty Hill]

Good morning Ed...tiresome at times, isn't it?

 

Signed, hornless and on the road somewhere.

[Albert]

Signed, hornless and on the road somewhere.

 

Please note, I deserve credit for letting this quote go.

[AnRSguy]

 

[Albert]

I can never find the horn button on my bike(s) that one time per year when I want or need it. Cars are even worse with their non-standard horn arrangements.

 

I have often flashed my left turn signal in anger.

[motoguy128]

I need more practice getting to my horn while swerving or hard braking.

 

I had a car last weekend creep or from a corner lot just as I was completeing a right hand turn. NBD since it was 2 lanes, I would just ride around him. All indication was that he was making a right turn, but halfway through as I was only 50 feet awway, I discovered he was actually making a wide sweeping left turn to get behind traffic stopped in the left turn lane. Umm...use a F***** turn signal!!! Before I could honk my horn or even brake, I just swerved to the left towards oncomming traffic, then swerved back over as a car was heading at me.

 

I wonder if the other cars that saw it realized what happened, or think I was riding wrecklessly.

 

I wonder if I would have swerved into the other lane if I saw a car there. I had a clear view so I think I instictively shose that option in an instant instead of braking. I was 2-up, so my first reaction is to swerve rather than brake. I probably could have stopped in time, but it would have been close.

[russell_bynum]

Allowing others to have their way with no warning is sort of like cowering at the first sign of a confrontation.

 

I'm not, I say, I say, I'm not gettin' through to you, am I boy?

Leghorn>

 

"allowing others to have their way"

 

 

If you're doing your job, by the time "others have their way", you're not there anymore, so it doesn't matter.

[russell_bynum]

I wonder if the other cars that saw it realized what happened, or think I was riding wrecklessly.

 

Probably the latter, but who cares?

 

One time, I had a lady make a right turn from the left lane (3 lanes going our direction...and she was in the far left) without slowing down, signaling, or anything. She just all the sudden spun the wheel right and turned. Cars were going into ABS and swerving all over the place trying to avoid her. I (on my RT in the far right lane) wound up slamming the bike down and turning inside of her. I approached her about it and she called me a maniac with a death wish.

 

People are f***ing clueless. If anyone noticed you making a hard swerve (which they probably didn't), rest assured that they thought you are just some maniac biker with a death wish.

 

Whatever...you did what you needed to do to get home in one piece and that's all that really matters.

[Bud]

I can never find the horn button on my bike(s) that one time per year when I want or need it. Cars are even worse with their non-standard horn arrangements.

 

I have often flashed my left turn signal in anger.

 

Tell it like is is, Brother. DAMHIK

[russell_bynum]

But you will never reach that point if you continue to sit there waiting to tell that other guy what he did wrong.

Well, that's a nice thought but there are circumstances where, no matter how vigilant and forgiving you are, you will be encroached upon. I see no reason why you should just turn the other cheek. Sometimes the "perp" needs to know what they did.

 

Yes, those situations happen. When they do, it means you screwed up. Fix the problem and move on.

 

If you're doing things right, there is no "perp". Or...at least...there's no "perp" who did something to you.

 

 

[AnRSguy]

Allowing others to have their way with no warning is sort of like cowering at the first sign of a confrontation.

 

I'm not, I say, I say, I'm not gettin' through to you, am I boy?

Leghorn>

 

 

You are so right, you are not, as I don't take advice from cartoon chickens.

 

 

[russell_bynum]

I ain't, I say, I say, I ain't no chicken, boy...I'm a rooster.

 

[Jeepster]

:grin:

[AnRSguy]

And I am no "boy" as you put it. But a rooster is still a chicken. And if you don't believe me look it up.

[ShovelStrokeEd]

I see my brief hiatus from the thread has not resulted in anything different going on or any minds changed.

 

Russell, I am pretty sure we have beaten this horse to the point that it is indubitably dead, not resting, not napping, dead. Very similar to the Monty Python parrot although bring up a bird seems to ruffle some people's feathers.

 

How's that for a mixture of metaphor.

[russell_bynum]

I see my brief hiatus from the thread has not resulted in anything different going on or any minds changed.

 

Russell, I am pretty sure we have beaten this horse to the point that it is indubitably dead, not resting, not napping, dead. Very similar to the Monty Python parrot although bring up a bird seems to ruffle some people's feathers.

 

How's that for a mixture of metaphor.

 

 

I'm, I say, I say, I'm out. I gotta go chase that hair-brained dawg away from the hen house. That boy's about as sharp as a bowlin' ball.