Wheels Rollin' Posted July 5, 2008 Posted July 5, 2008 Due to some challenges we had with my daughter's vehicle's tires holding 'normal air' last Summer, the dealer recommmended we use nitrogen... We did, and since then, all of our leakage problems <> have disappeared... A friend of mine, knowing of our positive experience with our daughter's vehicle, came over this afternoon and told me he wants to use it to reduce some '... bothersome...' leakage in his motorcycle tires... I suggested he first have his wheels and tires checked professionally to ensure the fit is within spec before doing anything else, but it did get me thinking about it as an alternative... So, your thoughts? Good idea? Bad idea? Something inbetween? Anyone here have any 'real world' experience in motorcycle tires? I know there are some cost and convenience challenges -- it's not as widely available as 'normal air', and based on what my dealer told me, once nitrogen is in, it's important to maintain its 'purity' -- in other words, not mix it with 'normal air'... ~ Bill P.S. I searched previous topics here and didn't come across any mention of nitrogen, so I apologize in advance if I overlooked it in some manner or just wasn't expansive enough in my search criteria...
Boffin Posted July 5, 2008 Posted July 5, 2008 Short answer - Waste of money. The long answer as expounded by Mitch Patrie is here. The search function on UBB needs getting used to... Andy
Wheels Rollin' Posted July 5, 2008 Author Posted July 5, 2008 Bless you, Andy <>... As for the explanation Mitch provided? <>... I'm now an instant expert thanks to his research and prose! <>... Thanks so much for pointing me in the right direction... ~ Bill
Pat Hillyard Posted July 6, 2008 Posted July 6, 2008 I asked an auto technician a few years ago about the benefits of filling with nitrogen. He said it was explained to him that certain car makers were using nitrogen filled tires to prevent corrosion in the tire pressure monitoring systems used in their cars. Since last fall, all new cars and light trucks sold in the USofA are required by federal law to have tire pressure monitoring systems in all of their vehicles. I heard a few years ago that some companies were having a lot of problems with their tire pressure monitoring systems, and corrosion was one of the main problems. I've been using Smartire on my pickup and the Harley and my new 12RT will have the system. I love these systems. Pat Hillyard
Dave39 Posted July 6, 2008 Posted July 6, 2008 Very informative review by Mitch Patrie. I'm surprised that the slightly larger O2 molecule (MW=32) permeates membranes (tires?) faster than N2 (MW=28), e.g. see how long a tire would stay filled with hydrogen (MW=2). Must be more at play than just size.
Schupo Posted July 6, 2008 Posted July 6, 2008 I've been running a gas mix of about 78% nitrogen in all my vehicles, both two and four-wheeled, since I got my first motorcycle, a Honda 150 Dream, about 40 years ago.
Bob Palin Posted July 6, 2008 Posted July 6, 2008 Very informative review by Mitch Patrie. I'm surprised that the slightly larger O2 molecule (MW=32) permeates membranes (tires?) faster than N2 (MW=28), e.g. see how long a tire would stay filled with hydrogen (MW=2). Must be more at play than just size. An oxygen molecule, despite being heavier than a nitrogen molecule, is actually slightly smaller. Their exact size is a bit hard to determine but from gas viscosity data, O2 2.96 and N2 3.16; from van der Waal's interaction data, O2 2.90 and N2 3.14 ; from molecular refraction data, O2 2.34 and N2 2.40 angstroms. I can send you some 78% nitrogen mix if you give me your address.
Stan Walker Posted July 6, 2008 Posted July 6, 2008 I can send you some 78% nitrogen mix if you give me your address. Would you please? There is way too much smog in the mix out here. Or better yet.....I could come get it!!!!! Stan
Dave39 Posted July 6, 2008 Posted July 6, 2008 I might just order that 78% N2 mix. We need it badly here in Calif.
Joe Frickin' Friday Posted July 6, 2008 Posted July 6, 2008 Short answer - Waste of money. The long answer as expounded by Mitch Patrie is here. The search function on UBB needs getting used to... Andy The plots are no longer present there; if you're interested, I have the original text of that thread, with plots, hosted here on my website.
Dave39 Posted July 6, 2008 Posted July 6, 2008 Very informative review by Mitch Patrie. I'm surprised that the slightly larger O2 molecule (MW=32) permeates membranes (tires?) faster than N2 (MW=28), e.g. see how long a tire would stay filled with hydrogen (MW=2). Must be more at play than just size. An oxygen molecule, despite being heavier than a nitrogen molecule, is actually slightly smaller. Their exact size is a bit hard to determine but from gas viscosity data, O2 2.96 and N2 3.16; from van der Waal's interaction data, O2 2.90 and N2 3.14 ; from molecular refraction data, O2 2.34 and N2 2.40 angstroms. I can send you some 78% nitrogen mix if you give me your address. Yup, looks like O2 is smaller: http://www.getnitrogen.org/pdf/graham.pdf
Joe Frickin' Friday Posted July 7, 2008 Posted July 7, 2008 I asked an auto technician a few years ago about the benefits of filling with nitrogen. He said it was explained to him that certain car makers were using nitrogen filled tires to prevent corrosion in the tire pressure monitoring systems used in their cars. Did this technician work at a shop that sells N2 tire fills? Interesting. I'd be curious to see the owner's manuals for these cars; if N2 were necessary to minimize corrosion in factory-installed TPM systems, then it would be written into the manual (and perhaps even the warranty). I have my doubts, given the limited availability of N2, and the laziness of the average vehicle owner. A car maker would be inviting all sorts of trouble by expecting the consumer to reliably seek out nitrogen for tire fillups. FWIW, I isntalled an aftermarket TPM system on my bike last fall. There was nothing in the manual about using nitrogen instead of air.
ShovelStrokeEd Posted July 7, 2008 Posted July 7, 2008 I really like my new TPM system. Digital tire pressure gauge from Motoboss. 15 bux. I use it once every two weeks.
ltljohn Posted July 7, 2008 Posted July 7, 2008 My wifes VW Passat has TPMS and does not mention N2 in the owners manual anywhere.
smiller Posted July 8, 2008 Posted July 8, 2008 Well, here's a very well-researched story on the subject, with some comments from informed consumers.
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